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jetjack74
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Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:05 am

So it is said that Discovery will go to Smithsonian Museum in DC where Enterprise is currently located. So where will Endeavor and Atlantis go? The USAF Museum at WPAFB in Ohio is angling for one, specifically Atlantis since it has carried the most USAF-related space projects. March Field Air Museum in CA, and and the Brazos Valley Science and Industry Museum. But with the latter 2, would they seriously get a shuttle over the Museum of Flight here in Seattle(if they are in the running at all)? Is the MoF campaigning for one? I would think they would be a front-runner for one of them considering Boeing's contribution to Space Exploration(and that the shuttle was carried on the back of a 747. Will Enterprise end up at one of the other museums?
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Oroka
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:20 am

I hope the USAF museum gets Atlantis, it is the closest big aviation museum to me (7 hours away!).


Enterprise will remain the property of the Smithsonian, but will be loaned to another museum. She will get 1 last flight on the SCA to her destination. Enterprise has already had a check-out to make sure she is still flight worthy (she is).
 
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:16 am

yes Seattle is campaigning for one.. they broke ground for the building last week. Plus with Bonnie Dunbar pushing for it there is a good chance.

we hashed this out on this thread awhile ago Intrepid Museum,NY, Space Shuttle? (by soon7x7 Sep 7 2010 in Military Aviation & Space Flight)

[Edited 2011-03-10 20:18:16]
 
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Stitch
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:11 am

I think we (Seattle) should get Enterprise and the SCA together.  
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:47 am

I see Endeavour going to KSC and Atlantis going to JSC. Enterprise will go to the Museum of Flight.

Intrepid - following their abysmal handling of the Concorde - will get nothing.
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:35 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
I think we (Seattle) should get Enterprise and the SCA together.

Was going to say that!
That would be aaaaaawesome!
 
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:18 pm

Have they thought of having one of the Space Shuttles going to a foreign Air and Space Museum?

After all, France and the UK have sent 3 Concordes to the United States, one in Seattle, one in Manhattan and one at the NASM at Washington Dulles.

It would be a good idea that one of the Shuttles be sent to the Air and Space Museum at Le Bourget for example. The Paris Air Show is one of the world's biggest and most visited - the Museum has two Concordes. A Space Shuttle would make a really great addition to the Musée de l'Air's collection.

     
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:04 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
would be a good idea that one of the Shuttles be sent to the Air and Space Museum at Le Bourget for example. The Paris Air Show is one of the world's biggest and most visited - the Museum has two Concordes. A Space Shuttle would make a really great addition to the Musée de l'Air's collection.

generally not a bad idea... except for the security issue, no one wants the Iranian/Chinese/etc in to reverse engineer their own shuttle... Does San Marino have room?

biggest problem is there were a few more Concordes than shuttles
 
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:38 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 7):
no one wants the Iranian/Chinese/etc in to reverse engineer their own shuttle

This is a good point.

I guess the engines will be taken off before the Shuttles are delivered to their respective museums?

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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alberchico
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:18 pm

I personally hope that the Intrepid gets a shuttle but the issue would be where would they store it, and where would they then put the Concorde ?

As seen here. not much room:

http://images.travelpod.com/tripwow/photos/ta-00ae-2312-e679/uss-intrepid-new-york-city-united-states+1152_12882337183-tpfil02aw-8032.jpg
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:01 am

The Space Shuttles deserve much better than the Intrepid... They could hardly take care of Concorde. As a Oregonian, I would completely support the Shuttle and SCA going to Seattle. Would be perfect.  
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting KPDX (Reply 10):
I would completely support the Shuttle and SCA going to Seattle. Would be perfect.


maybe we could "loan" the SCA to OMSI...

Quoting alberchico (Reply 9):
personally hope that the Intrepid gets a shuttle but the issue would be where would they store it, and where would they then put the Concorde ?


here's the Intrepid plan... and a pain to clean the seagull stuff off the glass
http://www.intrepidmuseum.org/shuttle/media.html
 
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Moose135
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Have they thought of having one of the Space Shuttles going to a foreign Air and Space Museum?

No - in the original info NASA published soliciting requests from museums, it specifically stated they must be US-based.
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:57 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 12):

It would be a good idea to send one of the Space Shuttles to Europe.
The U.S. Museums have got 3 of our Concordes.
Unfortunately I doubt they will change their mind on this.
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Stitch
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:07 pm

If we had all five of the original space-capable frames, I'd certainly support sending one to Europe. However, with only three available (plus Enterprise), I concur they should stay "home", so to speak, in the US.



Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
I see Endeavour going to KSC and Atlantis going to JSC.

The U.S. Space & Rocket Center at Huntsville already has Pathfinder (the mock-up/simulator), so not sure KSC and JSC need an orbiter.
 
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:31 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 7):
generally not a bad idea... except for the security issue, no one wants the Iranian/Chinese/etc in to reverse engineer their own shuttle

Really? What are they going to do? Steal a space shuttle from a museum? Seriously, put down the Clancy books and take off the tin-foil hat.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 8):
This is a good point.

A good point? Good grief.

The Evergreen Museum in Oregon (home of the Spruce Goose) likes to think it's in the running for a shuttle. They've built a new space flight building with an access door to fit a shuttle. It's a very nice museum, but it seems an unlikely choice considering the competition. Maybe they're looking to get Enterprise? They already have several items on loan from the Smithsonian. IMO, it would be nice to have one of the shuttles on the West Coast
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm

One should be in Palmdale's Joe Davies Heritage Airpark, after all the Shuttles were built there.
 
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:18 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 15):
Really?

sometimes sarcasm is wasted on realists
 
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 15):

The Evergreen Museum in Oregon (home of the Spruce Goose) likes to think it's in the running for a shuttle. They've built a new space flight building with an access door to fit a shuttle. It's a very nice museum, but it seems an unlikely choice considering the competition. Maybe they're looking to get Enterprise? They already have several items on loan from the Smithsonian. IMO, it would be nice to have one of the shuttles on the West Coast

I'd love to see the shuttle go to Evergreen Air Museum but it's unlikely in my opinion.

With that said, EAM have some of the best facilities of any museum and are constantly expanding. They have constructed a huge brand new building just for space related aircraft, etc. They accumulate more and more aircraft every year (including a Lockheed Constellation which is coming soon) and maintain their aircraft beautifully.  
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
The U.S. Space & Rocket Center at Huntsville already has Pathfinder (the mock-up/simulator), so not sure KSC and JSC need an orbiter.

Why?

Houston and the Cape are the most visible NASA locations for the Shuttle. The Astronauts live, train, and work in Houston on a day to day basis, and it is mission control. The shuttle launch from the cape.

Of the three full shuttles plus Enterprise I'd give them JSC-Houston, KSC-Cape, Simthsonian, and USAF museum.

I did hear that that Kansas space museum was pushing hard for one (an NPR story IIRC) but the ones I listed were seen as "front runners" which I agree with.
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:28 am

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 19):
Houston and the Cape are the most visible NASA locations for the Shuttle.

Houston, Cape, California and DC (A&S Museum) would make the most sense to me.
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:54 am

The USAF Museum WILL get Atlantis...bank on it.
 
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:49 am

IMO one of the flight worthy shuttles should get to the west coast, the Air Force museum should (and will) get one which in practice means that one of JSC or KSC will be stuck with Intrepid, which really doesn't bother me too much since neither NASA site is really equipped to display one properly. I really hate the thought of one of the actual shuttles crumbling away outside like the Saturn Vs are, but, frankly, I can't bring myself to care all that much about how Intrepid is treated, and from what I've heard it's been turned into a pretty respectable representation of the Shuttle as a type.

PS: While I don't have a specific reason for it, the more I think about it the more I think Endeavor should be the one for the west coast.

[Edited 2011-03-12 23:50:33]
 
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eksath
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:43 pm

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 22):
which really doesn't bother me too much since neither NASA site is really equipped to display one properly.

Utter rubbish! As a person who practically considers KSC a second home, I object to your opinion as the truth is far different.


Have you ever visited NASA-KSC and done the visitor tour in the last 15 years?

The Saturn V is stored in a climate controlled building that houses the entire vehicle and there are beautifully curated exhibits that allows the general public to experience the wonders of the Apollo missions. These facilities have been around for almost 20 years. The following are a few pictures of it.

Saturn V building interior with rocket.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tyler Rogoway



Lander:

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Gregg Stansbery

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 22):
I really hate the thought of one of the actual shuttles crumbling away outside like the Saturn Vs are,

There are NO Saturn Vs crumbling away outside! Both have been moved inside and exhibits have been built around them! KSC's Saturn V was moved indoors in the mid 1990s. JSC's went inside in 2007.

By the way, those rockets were/are owned by the Smithsonion and their upkeep and maintenance was their responsibility.

http://www.space.com/4102-houston-restored-moon-rocket.html

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 22):
I really hate the thought of one of the actual shuttles crumbling away outside like the Saturn Vs are

Moot point. The RFP clearly states the expectations of the storage for the orbiters. These include climate controlled facilities. The orbiters will remain property of the US Gov. They will be merely lending them for display. You can google this.

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 22):
While I don't have a specific reason for it, the more I think about it the more I think Endeavor should be the one for the west coast.

Good. Because Endeavour's work flow has it ending at NASA-KSC i.e. staying at KSC These are the preparation for it. If you are a betting person, I recommend you bet against yourself.

The NASA-KSC visitor center artist plan:
http://www.collectspace.com/images/news-080210a/015.jpg


watchout for April 12 as that is currently stated as the decision day that NASA Admin. Bolden will announce the final resting places.

disclaimer: these opinions stated are mine and due to data in the public domain hence not related to my work.
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zanl188
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 23):
There are NO Saturn Vs crumbling away outside! Both have been moved inside and exhibits have been built around them! KSC's Saturn V was moved indoors in the mid 1990s. JSC's went inside in 2007.

The trouble is NASA was in no hurry to get the Saturn Vs indoors. It took decades!! And they were crumbling prior to going indoors. Cannot be allowed to happen with the orbiters. USAF Museum & Smithsonian have indoor display space available now. Can JSC & KSC say that? When will space be available? What is the schedule for tearing down the OPFs?

Any new facilities at KSC & JSC will need to be available before the OPFs come down, or is there an alternate storage location available?

KSC & JSC do not have a good track record of caring for historical hardware. I'd rather see an orbiter go to the Kansas Cosmosphere vs KSC/JSC.
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:26 pm

Just out of curiosity assuming the Intrepid does not get a shuttle, how much would it cost to commission a high quality mock up like this?

http://www.airliners.net/photo/NASA/...d=594142b09ee7395b245ce609cbfa9511

Several places seem to do this :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Space_Shuttle_America.jpg

http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cjb/Image/Newcastle_Space_Shuttle/shuttle_06.jpg
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zanl188
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 25):
how much would it cost to commission a high quality mock up like this?

How much money have you got? that's what it'll cost... lol
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:04 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
KSC & JSC do not have a good track record of caring for historical hardware. I'd rather see an orbiter go to the Kansas Cosmosphere vs KSC/JSC.

That's not going to happen. They don't have the space for it, probably don't have the money to build a building for it, and with the somewhat recent issues with stolen artifacts and employee's, I don't think NASA will send one there. It would be cool, but I just don't see one going to Hutchinson.

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eksath
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:21 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
The trouble is NASA was in no hurry to get the Saturn Vs indoors.

The Saturn Vs were given to the Smithsonian at the end of the program. The onus for preservation was with the Smithsonian and not NASA.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
Cannot be allowed to happen with the orbiters.

Moot point again as a document on the future of the orbiters that clearly states expectations.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
Can JSC & KSC say that? When will space be available? What is the schedule for tearing down the OPFs?

the OPFs are not being torn down. There is plenty of space including the VAB and the Reusable Launch Vehicle Hangar


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Suresh A. Atapattu

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
Any new facilities at KSC & JSC will need to be available before the OPFs come down, or is there an alternate storage location available?

See above. Moot point.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
KSC & JSC do not have a good track record of caring for historical hardware

I guess the current considerable artifacts that drawn millions of visitors would be the best proof of the success of the mission.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
I'd rather see an orbiter go to the Kansas Cosmosphere vs KSC/JSC.

good luck with that.
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 25):
Several places seem to do this :

adding the locations of these mockups would be appreciated....
 
zanl188
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:12 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 28):
The Saturn Vs were given to the Smithsonian at the end of the program. The onus for preservation was with the Smithsonian and not NASA.

NASA sure showed a lot of care and concern with those boosters rotting in their front yard. And the S-IC still outdoors at Michoud?

Quoting eksath (Reply 28):
the OPFs are not being torn down.

Check again...

Quoting eksath (Reply 28):
There is plenty of space including the VAB and the Reusable Launch Vehicle Hangar

Fat chance visitors will be allowed at the VAB, particularly if VAB gets a new program. Safety won't allow it. Have the structural problems at the VAB been corrected? I'm sure NASA would prefer to use the RLV building for something other than tourists...
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zanl188
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:33 pm

... and in regard to the OPFs...

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2007/...ns-ksc-buildings-to-be-demolished/

Michoud S-IC. Didn't fare to well during Katrina as I recall...

Big version: Width: 768 Height: 662 File size: 80kb
Courtesy: Google Earth


[Edited 2011-03-13 10:51:36]
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Oroka
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:35 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 25):
Just out of curiosity assuming the Intrepid does not get a shuttle, how much would it cost to commission a high quality mock up like this?

IIRC it cost some Japanese investors over $1m back in the 80s to upgrade Pathfinder to a visually accurate analogue to the real Shuttles. So, you are probably looking at $3m in todays dollars to build one from scratch. Now, if you have a volunteer group working over a decade (maybe current and ex NASA shuttle employees), it could be done for $1m (similar to the Toronto Aerospace Museum CF-105 replica).
 
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eksath
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:14 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 30):
Fat chance visitors will be allowed at the VAB, particularly if VAB gets a new program. Safety won't allow it. Have the structural problems at the VAB been corrected? I'm sure NASA would prefer to use the RLV building for something other than tourists...

I did not mean these would be the final facilities. A new facility to showcase the orbiter is planned and will take at least a year plus to come online which works into the workflow of the orbiter final processing. The VAB,OPFs or RLV would be temp storage for the the orbiter (s) while the new facility would come on line. It will take some time to prepare the exhibits etc for the general public.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 31):
... and in regard to the OPFs...

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2007/...shed/

This article was written :August 5th, 2007

This info is about 3.5 years out of date. New uses for the OPF are in the works. For e.g. OPF #03 will be prepared for leasing to commercial (private) space companies etc. It is currently used for storage....
Discovery was sent to OPF #02 upon tow back unlike the previous times.
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zanl188
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:33 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 33):
I did not mean these would be the final facilities. A new facility to showcase the orbiter is planned and will take at least a year plus to come online which works into the workflow of the orbiter final processing. The VAB,OPFs or RLV would be temp storage for the the orbiter (s) while the new facility would come on line. It will take some time to prepare the exhibits etc for the general public.

Any facility at KSC is likely to be difficult to access and a money grab. Stand in line, buy a pricey ticket, wait for the bus, see the exhibit, wait for the bus... you get the idea. Might work if they put it right at the visitor center. All to see a historical artifact that US taxpayers have already paid for. Even JSC would be better.

Is KSCs plan online somewhere?

To be fair though I suspect any museum that gets a shuttle will charge a premium to see it - KSC will, IMHO, just be the king of the money grab.

Quoting eksath (Reply 33):
New uses for the OPF are in the works. For e.g. OPF #03 will be prepared for leasing to commercial (private) space companies etc. It is currently used for storage....

My understanding is that Constellation funded infrastructure projects, including demolition, would proceed as soon as the existing facility was no longer needed by shuttle. Witness the present state of LC-39B. I'd be interested in any hard info you might have on the OPFs.
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alberchico
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:26 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
Any facility at KSC is likely to be difficult to access and a money grab. Stand in line, buy a pricey ticket, wait for the bus, see the exhibit, wait for the bus... you get the idea. Might work if they put it right at the visitor center. All to see a historical artifact that US taxpayers have already paid for. Even JSC would be better.

You're forgetting the 90F temperatures during the summer.  
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Bureaucromancer
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:11 pm

Just to clarify (since I can't seem to edit the post again) where I referred to Intrepid I was meaning the Pathfinder vehicle, not the Intrepid museum. Really don't know how I got those two mixed up...
 
zanl188
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:05 pm

Quoting alberchico (Reply 35):
You're forgetting the 90F temperatures during the summer.

Well yeah there is that too... NASM & USAF Museum have room to display the orbiters today & visitors can readily access them without all the tourist mumbo jumbo at KSC... well there is the parking fee at NASM... lol

IMO, third orbiter goes to JSC and Enterprise somewhere on the West coast....
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dumbell2424
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:32 pm

Not to go totally off topic here, but will the SCA see any museum potential? Or will it see the blades of a guillotine?  
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:18 pm

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 38):
Not to go totally off topic here, but will the SCA see any museum potential? Or will it see the blades of a guillotine?

Potential? I think everything has potential, but it always comes back to whether it's in NASA's best interests to donate them or sell them for scrap. It always seems it takes a grass-roots effort to get large artifacts like these donated rather then for them to dispose of them to reclamation dealer. I suppose it has most to to do with who can get it off their hands as quick as possible with as little financial liability to the seller. A scrapper can and has the monetery resources to move a 747 to a location where they can tear it down than a museum which in many cases, takes forever with a boondoggle of a task to place it in a museum.
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alberchico
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 38):
Not to go totally off topic here, but will the SCA see any museum potential? Or will it see the blades of a guillotine?

Perhaps the cockpit or front fuselage section MIGHT be preserved but I can't see anything else from those planes surviving....
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eksath
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:22 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
Any facility at KSC is likely to be difficult to access and a money grab. Stand in line, buy a pricey ticket, wait for the bus, see the exhibit, wait for the bus... you get the idea. Might work if they put it right at the visitor center. All to see a historical artifact that US taxpayers have already paid for. Even JSC would be better.

It is very expensive to remove all the hazardous material out of the orbiters. The $28 million is for that. The ferry flight is a about $500K (if my memory serves me right). I understand that the Smithsonian has a pass i.e. the Congress gave them a pass on the payment but everyone else has to cough up the money hence coupled with capital building costs, this is a project in the range of $50 - $100 million +. However gets the orbiters will try to recoup their costs. Lets face it, they all know it is a cash cow hence the mad scramble even from the long shots. KSC will cost a little less as the orbiter can be practically wheeled from her storage to the display site.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
Is KSCs plan online somewhere?

I will check and get back to you.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
To be fair though I suspect any museum that gets a shuttle will charge a premium to see it - KSC will, IMHO, just be the king of the money grab.

orbiter= cash cow for attendance and knick knacks

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
My understanding is that Constellation funded infrastructure projects, including demolition, would proceed as soon as the existing facility was no longer needed by shuttle. Witness the present state of LC-39B.

Refer to what I said about the OPFs previously.LC-39B is being prepared to accept another launch vehicle (what ever that may be). RSS is not needed etc.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 34):
I'd be interested in any hard info you might have on the OPFs.

I can only relay what i have seen with my own eyes.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 37):
IMO, third orbiter goes to JSC and Enterprise somewhere on the West coast....

Getting an orbiter to JSC might be a problem, apparently there is a lot of concrete in the way. This was not the case when the Saturn V was brought by barge in the 70s. The orbiters cannot be cut up for transport due to the type of assembly.

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 38):
Not to go totally off topic here, but will the SCA see any museum potential? Or will it see the blades of a guillotine?

N911NA (SCA#02) will become a spare aircraft for her SCA#01 and the NASA 747SP SOFIA aircraft. N905NA will continue in new roles some undefined yet. There is already a contract for her use. She will also most likely be the ferry aircraft for the final journeys.
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:18 am

Boeing has leased one of the 747's for shuttling the Phantom Ray test a/c to and from the Edwards... or where ever they want to test them
 
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:46 am

Quoting eksath (Reply 41):
Getting an orbiter to JSC might be a problem, apparently there is a lot of concrete in the way. This was not the case when the Saturn V was brought by barge in the 70s. The orbiters cannot be cut up for transport due to the type of assembly.

It's not that far from Ellington over to JSC, is it? I'd imagine it's possible to get it there, but it will take a lot of creative planning, for sure.

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alberchico
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 43):
It's not that far from Ellington over to JSC, is it? I'd imagine it's possible to get it there, but it will take a lot of creative planning, for sure.

You could try a heavyift chopper

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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:47 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 41):
N905NA will continue in new roles some undefined yet. There is already a contract for her use.
Quoting kanban (Reply 42):
Boeing has leased one of the 747's for shuttling the Phantom Ray test a/c to and from the Edwards... or where ever they want to test them

Yes. That is what I meant.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 43):
It's not that far from Ellington over to JSC, is it? I'd imagine it's possible to get it there, but it will take a lot of creative planning, for sure.

Yes. It is. The SCA has previously brought orbiters for "show and tell" at EFD. The JSC folks and Houston has a big push to get an orbiter.

There is specific language in the US Gov. Bill that deals with this process that clearly indicates that the orbiters have to go to final locations/states that had things to do with them during the glory years of design,building and flying. This language was apparently put in by the lawmakers in those states that wanted to knock out the outsider bids.

[Edited 2011-03-14 06:47:31]
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:22 pm

Isn't there also language at stipulates the receiving museum must be adjacent to a runway capable of handling the 747 and orbiter for delivery?
 
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eksath
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 46):
Isn't there also language at stipulates the receiving museum must be adjacent to a runway capable of handling the 747 and orbiter for delivery?

It does not. Here are some relevant paragraphs from the 2010 "NASA Follow-up Request for Information on Space Shuttle Orbiter Placement".

"Air ferry of Orbiters by Shuttle Carrier Aircraft would require U. S. destination airports to have 8,000 to 10,000 feet runways depending on the altitude and atmospheric temperature of the landing site, and the final weight of the Orbiters being delivered."

and...

"NASA estimates the total cost to be incurred by a recipient organization for Orbiter display preparation, and delivery by ferry flight to a U.S. destination airport at approximately $28.8 million. This includes the cost to air ferry the Orbiter by Shuttle Carrier Aircraft from the Kennedy Space Center to a U. S. destination airport. This estimate is based on updated estimates by NASA about the minimum tasks which must be performed for public display of each Space Shuttle Orbiter. It does not take into account special measures that may be required in specific situations such as transporting the Orbiter long distances over public roadways which may require removal of light posts and traffic signals or transport by barge over water. Additional preparation tasks such as fabrication of engine bay covers or mock nozzles, open payload bay door display configuration, and lighting on the vehicle would also increase costs to recipients. The Orbiters will not be disassembled for transportation or storage.
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Stitch
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:27 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 45):
There is specific language in the US Gov. Bill that deals with this process that clearly indicates that the orbiters have to go to final locations/states that had things to do with them during the glory years of design,building and flying. This language was apparently put in by the lawmakers in those states that wanted to knock out the outsider bids.

A literal reading of that would knock out the USAF Museum and the Smithsonian, as well as the Museum of Flight (since Boeing/Rockwell didn't build the orbiter in Seattle nor maintain/prep it there).

It would only allow one to be displayed at Boeing/Rockwell's production plant in SoCal, KSC and JSC.
 
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kanban
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RE: Museums Who'll Get Space Shuttles,

Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 48):
(since Boeing/Rockwell didn't build the orbiter in Seattle nor maintain/prep it there).

good point, however it is the museum most connected with Boeing... and somehow the Museum of Flight thinks they're in the running because they just broke ground for the new building.. (I guess they're getting a mockup as well.. it may just be a cargo bay mock up... I can't find a good description)

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