olle
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Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:46 pm

Swedish government has taken desition to send 8 Gripen and one Hercules to join the Nato operations in Libya.

The planes will be from Kallinge airbase, and probably leaves Sweden in the end of this week.
 
GDB
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:07 pm

This is a momentous moment for both Sweden and her armed forces.
Whilst the Royal Swedish Air Force has contributed to UN operations before, in terms of fast jets, you are talking about 50 years ago with SAAB J-29's in UN livery over Africa.
Even if the Gripen's only do air to air patrolling, this is still a whole new thing, at least for half a century.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...ad.php?130943-SAAB-Tunnan-in-Congo

[Edited 2011-03-29 14:13:55]
 
LAXintl
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:49 pm

Sounds like a PR opportunity for Saab.
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Devilfish
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:53 pm

Hope it gains them new buyers.
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prebennorholm
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:05 pm

I wonder how this can work out. Sweden is not a NATO member country. I would assume that they are therefore not integrated in the NATO IFF system.

Hopefully the NATO planes including AWACS planes will be able to identify the Swedish Gripens as friends, and still the foes as what they are.
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KPDX
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Sounds like a PR opportunity for Saab.

I'm not gonna lie.. It's almost beginning to seem like a "fad" to send your airforce in. Maybe a national pride kinda thing? I'd think 350 aircraft is enough for the Libya operation already.
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GDB
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:35 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
I wonder how this can work out. Sweden is not a NATO member country. I would assume that they are therefore not integrated in the NATO IFF system.

They've been exercising with NATO for a few years now, so likely interoperability issues have been worked out.
The embarrassment of doing a completely ineffective deployment would presumably outweigh any positives.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:01 am

Swedish Air Force has for a long time maintained training and operational links with NATO. Matter of fact a Baltic training exercise only finished last week.
http://www.aco.nato.int/page424203844.aspx

Below is an article about Sweden and NATO. I remember back to the 1970s when I lived in Sweden, the country was never quite "neutral" when it came to defense cooperation.

Sweden's Hidden Alliance With NATO Comes to Light
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/worl...ith-nato-comes-to-light-53529.html

Anyhow Qatar is not in NATO either and is running missions over Libya.
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SAS A340
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:38 am

Quoting olle (Thread starter):
Swedish government has taken desition to send 8 Gripen and one Hercules to join the Nato operations in Libya.


And a SAAB 2000 ERIEYE radar  
Quoting GDB (Reply 1):
Even if the Gripen's only do air to air patrolling, this is still a whole new thing, at least for half a century.


Very true!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Sounds like a PR opportunity for Saab.
Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 3):
Hope it gains them new buyers.


"we have nothing to prove" SAAB says,they have done very well in big exercise with NATO and others and the Gripen will have a pretty low profile unless there aren't any "unfriendly" aircraft up there with them...

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
Hopefully the NATO planes including AWACS planes will be able to identify the Swedish Gripens as friends


And vice versa   (horrible thought)

Quoting KPDX (Reply 5):
I'm not gonna lie.. It's almost beginning to seem like a "fad" to send your airforce in. Maybe a national pride kinda thing? I'd think 350 aircraft is enough for the Libya operation already.


Depends on how you look at it,civilians being slaughtered and for that reason alone you are more or less obligated to contribute if needed and if you can of course,in this case the "offer" was made to NATO to decide,and they said yes.
Perhaps a couple of Navy corvettes patrolling the coastline would have been of better use in this operation,that i don't know,hopefully NATO does  
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
Below is an article about Sweden and NATO


We are under NATO command on the ground in Afghanistan and will be under NATO command in the air in Libya,i am sure there won't be any problem.
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
CPH-R
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 6):
They've been exercising with NATO for a few years now, so likely interoperability issues have been worked out.

They've also been at Red Flag (at least there's videos on YouTube of their arrival), so presumably the USAF crew should be able to keep an eye on them.
 
TGIF
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:43 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 4):
I wonder how this can work out. Sweden is not a NATO member country. I would assume that they are therefore not integrated in the NATO IFF system.

Other non-NATO members have managed not to get shot down so far, so I think Sweden will do just fine...   
 
Doona
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:15 pm

At a press conference this afternoon, Swedish Air Force officials said that the first three JAS-39 Gripen aircraft will depart F17 Kallinge at 9 AM on Saturday morning, and fly to their base in the Mediterranean. The flights will be able to reach their destination without the need for refuelling enroute, but as of yet it is unknown which air field the aircraft will be based at. According to the official, it not decided yet, and the pilots might even be informed of their final destination AFTER taking off, (which seems very odd to me, but I supposed they're in a bit of a hurry).

The remaining five Gripens will follow on Sunday, along with a C130 to be used for logistics and aerial refuelling, as well as a SAAB2000 Erieye aircraft.

Link in Swedish: http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/tre-gripenplan-lattar-pa-lordagen

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TGIF
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:46 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 11):
The remaining five Gripens will follow on Sunday, along with a C130 to be used for logistics and aerial refuelling, as well as a SAAB2000 Erieye aircraft.

In think the SIGINT aircraft will be a TP 102B (Gulfstram IV) and not a S2000 Erieye.
 
Doona
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:46 pm

Quoting TGIF (Reply 12):
In think the SIGINT aircraft will be a TP 102B (Gulfstram IV) and not a S2000 Erieye.

You're probably correct. Saw the S2000 in some stock footage on the news yesterday and simply assumed. The Swedish Air Force doesn't even seem to operate the S2000, I guess the footage was of a demonstrator. Interestingly, Wikipedia now states (I know, I know...) that it will be a SAAB340 AEW&C aircraft. The reference for that part is an article from The Local, which as far as I can tell doesn't mention that particular aircraft at all. Guess final confirmation will come when they're underway.

Cheers
Mats
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Doona
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:33 am

Just read the the Swedish aircraft will be based in Sardinia.

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Mats
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TheSonntag
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:49 pm

And Germany opted out... What an embarassment.
 
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par13del
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:43 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 5):
I'm not gonna lie.. It's almost beginning to seem like a "fad" to send your airforce in. Maybe a national pride kinda thing? I'd think 350 aircraft is enough for the Libya operation already.

Not only the amount, but the number of countries involved, its unheard of, the synic in me may say it because they don't expect to see any combat, after all, all these a/c are essentially going for air patrols.
In the news yesterday, the US is supposed to be pulling their ground attack a/c by today today Saturday, Britian and France have ground attack a/c in the region, anyone else ready or willing to do some ground pounding if that actually continues. The fortunes of the "Opposition Forces" fell when bad weather slowed down their air cover, if the No Fly Zones goes to 90% of that, how long do we expect to maintain it if the government forces continue to gain ground, will a new UN resolution be required, the Russians have already complained that CAS missions were not involved in the mandate.

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 8):
less obligated to contribute if needed

Obligated and if needed, powerful words in this context, regardless, it does count as a deployment for international services, so a well done.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:15 pm

Quoting olle (Thread starter):
Swedish government has taken desition to send 8 Gripen and one Hercules

The Herc is so the crews can take back lots of duty-free liquor!  
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GDB
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:17 pm

Well i've seen footage of Belgium AF F-16's doing air to ground strikes, Belgium is not usually as active in deployments as other smaller NATO nations like the Netherlands, Denmark or Norway, in places like Afghanistan.
However, they are here.
Also worth noting Italian AF Tornado ECR aircraft were doing SEAD from day 1.

If there is one country not deploying at the usual level, it's the UK.
Due to heavy Afghanistan commitments and the real fear - as a former Chief Of Defence Staff pointed out - what if something else happens elsewhere, he used the example of something in the Persian Gulf threatening UK interests.
As it is, there is virtually no slack in the system now.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:07 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 15):
And Germany opted out... What an embarassment.

The Luftwaffe probably decided their EF Typhoons need no further introductions.

Quoting par13del (Reply 16):
Britian and France have ground attack a/c in the region, anyone else ready or willing to do some ground pounding if that actually continues.

Perhaps they have a score or two to settle, or markers falling due?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
The Herc is so the crews can take back lots of duty-free liquor!

And here I was thinking they were teetotallers!         

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
Also worth noting Italian AF Tornado ECR aircraft were doing SEAD from day 1.

   None better, IMHO.

Quoting GDB (Reply 18):
If there is one country not deploying at the usual level, it's the UK.
[.....]
As it is, there is virtually no slack in the system now.

It kind of puts the early retirement of the Tranche 1 Typhoons and Sentinels in question, doesn't it?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
GDB
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:34 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 19):
It kind of puts the early retirement of the Tranche 1 Typhoons and Sentinels in question, doesn't it?


And standing down two Tornado GR.4 units in June, (I don't mind phasing them out, as long as their capabilities are replaced - by a manned and unmanned mix if need be. Some of the best air to ground weapons in the world being carried by 25+ year old aircraft which have seen extensive combat service for 20 years....).
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:17 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 16):
Not only the amount, but the number of countries involved, its unheard of, the synic in me may say it because they don't expect to see any combat, after all, all these a/c are essentially going for air patrols.
In the news yesterday, the US is supposed to be pulling their ground attack a/c by today today Saturday, Britian and France have ground attack a/c in the region, anyone else ready or willing to do some ground pounding if that actually continues. The fortunes of the "Opposition Forces" fell when bad weather slowed down their air cover, if the No Fly Zones goes to 90% of that, how long do we expect to maintain it if the government forces continue to gain ground, will a new UN resolution be required, the Russians have already complained that CAS missions were not involved in the mandate.

The Royal Norwegian Airforce F16s has dropped several bombs on various targets, ranging from artillerary, tanks, hangars, airfields.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:31 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 21):
The Royal Norwegian Airforce F16s has dropped several bombs on various targets, ranging from artillerary, tanks, hangars, airfields.

And Royal Danish Air Force F-16s have until yesterday dropped 130 precision guided bombs, mostly on tanks and artillery, but also on air bases. Haven't heard about any figures for Saturday yet.

On a single day about a week ago the RDAF took out fifteen tanks.

It is not like the big countries are doing the hammering while the small ones enjoy the view from above while giving their AMRAAMs some fresh air.
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par13del
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:38 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 22):
It is not like the big countries are doing the hammering while the small ones enjoy the view from above while giving their AMRAAMs some fresh air.

I think that's the way it should be, yes it is cheaper if someone else does the heavy lifting, but the flip side is that the one doing the lifting eventually claims controlling interest and the non-lifters have little or no influence, if folks complain about the US acting as the world policeman it is not all their fault 
 
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Mortyman
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RE: Sweden Sends 8 Gripen To Join Libya Op.

Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 16):
Not only the amount, but the number of countries involved, its unheard of, the synic in me may say it because they don't expect to see any combat, after all, all these a/c are essentially going for air patrols.
In the news yesterday, the US is supposed to be pulling their ground attack a/c by today today Saturday, Britian and France have ground attack a/c in the region, anyone else ready or willing to do some ground pounding if that actually continues. The fortunes of the "Opposition Forces" fell when bad weather slowed down their air cover, if the No Fly Zones goes to 90% of that, how long do we expect to maintain it if the government forces continue to gain ground, will a new UN resolution be required, the Russians have already complained that CAS missions were not involved in the mandate.
Quoting Mortyman (Reply 21):
The Royal Norwegian Airforce F16s has dropped several bombs on various targets, ranging from artillerary, tanks, hangars, airfields.

Norway has planned for a 3 month long presence for this crisis. It may be shorter it may be longer. It's a matter of how things evolve. From what I understand all options are on the table, also possibly a deployment of specialforces / groundtroops if it comes to that.

Norway has been on the ground in Afghanistan for some 10 years and have done everything from inteligence operations, special operations, patrolling, sniper operations, escort, rescue missions, pointing out targets on ground, bombing sorties with fighters, rebuilding and educating and preparing Afgan policeforces. Norwegian specialforces were during the first years the ones with the most missions in theater and the only ones that had'nt to be pulled out of theater because of the enviroment / climate ( dehydration etc ).

etc, etc

Norway and also Denmark has been far more active in Afghanistan than certain countries that are far bigger than us and have far more millitary muscles.

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