psa188
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Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:22 pm

The historic Hangar One at California's former Moffet Naval Air Station in being demolished. This hangar was built in the 1930s for the Navy's dirigible USS Macon.

Please take a minute to go here and sign this petition to restore Moffett Field's Hangar One:

http://www.petitiononline.com/SHOC2011/petition.html

Thanks.
 
zanl188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:33 pm

A couple of thoughts....

- I suspect Senator Feinstein would be little swayed by out of state voters signing a petition such as this. Yep, the congress critters have staff that check such things... Not much point in out of staters like myself signing it.

- What are the proposed uses for the building and how will they be paid for?

[Edited 2011-08-11 08:35:15]
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:41 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
Not much point in out of staters like myself signing it.

I disagree. We're all taxpayers. If H1 becomes a world class aviation museum it will attract out of state tourists.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 1):
What are the proposed uses for the building and how will they be paid for?

There are many different ideas. First thing is to save it.

Personally, I'd like to see it become a world-class aviation museum.
 
n53614
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:49 pm

I knew they were taking the siding off of Hangar One but didn't know they were actually demolishing it! I guess the National Historic Landmark status doesn't matter to anyone making descisions.
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psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:46 pm

Quoting n53614 (Reply 3):
I knew they were taking the siding off of Hangar One but didn't know they were actually demolishing it!

To nit-pick, I think that they're leaving the frame skeleton up for now, but without new siding it's only a matter of time.

The navy has been insistent on demolition despite overwhelming community opposition. see http://www.nuqu.org/ for more information.
 
zanl188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:46 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 2):
I disagree.

Why would a CA Senator care or spend time/money on what I think? They're not going to do diddly for anyone out of state and probably not anything for a CA resident that's not registered to vote.

Folks need to vote & then write to their own representatives.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:07 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 5):
Why would a CA Senator care or spend time/money on what I think?

Well, if nobody signs the petition, there's a 0% chance of anything positive happening.

If people take 2 seconds to sign the free petition, there's a 2% chance of something happening. I'd go with the 2% instead of the 0%, especially since the cost to me in time and money is next to nothing.

But you are free to ignore the petition. Just don't complain when another part of aviation history turns to dust. Some of us would rather fight.
 
zanl188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:51 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 6):
But you are free to ignore the petition. Just don't complain when another part of aviation history turns to dust. Some of us would rather fight.

I'm not ignoring your petition. I'm mearly suggesting that it would be more effective if out of state folks were to write to their own representatives.
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:25 am

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 7):
I'm mearly suggesting that it would be more effective if out of state folks were to write to their own representatives.

Actually, it wouldn't hurt to do both.
 
kingairta
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:46 pm

That breakes my heart. I use to work out of that hangar. From 95-97 then they moved us over to Hangar 3.
 
psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:21 pm

Yesterday, the Mountain View Voice had an article on the petition drive:
Petitioners rally to save Hangar One:
http://www.mv-voice.com/news/show_story.php?id=4594&e=y

"I lobbied for passage of the National Historic Preservation Act in 1966 to ensure Federal Agencies did not destroy our heritage," wrote local historic preservation activist Bonnie Bamburg. "Hanger One is the biggest Federal building in Northern California and it must be rehabilitated so that it can adapt to new uses and remain our visual connection to the lighter than air ships, WWII and the spirit that led us during that time."
 
nomadd22
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:37 pm

People argued about the big B-17 hangars at Hobbs Airfield for years. I guess God got tired of listening because a couple of good windstorms settled the issue. It made for a lot of homeless cats.
Anon
 
taxpilot
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:06 pm

"Signing their names and writing notes on a petition, hundreds of people around the country are making it clear that Hangar One is an important piece of history to them, even as it is reduced to a bare skeletal frame in an environmental cleanup.

An online version of the petition to U.S. senator Dianne Feinstein had 226 signatures as of Wednesday morning. The passion of supporters was made clear in their comments next to their signatures..."

Mountain View Voice 8/11/2011

Around the country and around the world everyone should sign!
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:54 pm

While the hangar is a cool and historical structure, I'm not sure it's worth saving at this point. Is there a group at the ready with money to spend maintaining (and restoring) it? Is there a planned use?

Talking about what could be done with it is getting old. There's been lots of talk for a long time but the thing is just getting older and more run down.
 
gigneil
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:53 pm

Are they not making vodka in it anymore?

NS
 
LAXintl
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:05 am

Let it go.

Its old, decrepit, ad full of PCB and asbestos.

Per Feinstein's office its estimated to cost $32mil to just reskin hangar, for at best a marginal use.

With all the problems the nation faces, throwing tax payer money at this is not the thing to do.

And out of curiosity, where were all the preservationist the last decade as the facility set empty? Did anyone step up with money and offer to take it off the governments hands?
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:59 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 13):
While the hangar is a cool and historical structure, I'm not sure it's worth saving at this point. Is there a group at the ready with money to spend maintaining (and restoring) it? Is there a planned use?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Let it go.

Its old, decrepit, ad full of PCB and asbestos.

Per Feinstein's office its estimated to cost $32mil to just reskin hangar, for at best a marginal use.

With all the problems the nation faces, throwing tax payer money at this is not the thing to do.

And out of curiosity, where were all the preservationist the last decade as the facility set empty? Did anyone step up with money and offer to take it off the governments hands?

Under this premisse us Europeans should tear down all these medieval castles we have everywhere.
Here in Germany we even preserved a whole steel mill as an industrial museum in a region, which was largely influenced by the steel industry. Similarly in Dortmund a coal mine got preserved to preserve the heritage of the region.
In the US you seem to look just at the immediate earning potential. If you can´t make a lot of $$$ right now, you´ll tear kit down and scrap it. Later you´ll wonder where it has gone, like the Apollo 11 launch tower.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
zanl188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:33 am

They could always turn it into a tropical theme park like our friends in Berlin did. On second thought that's probably the last thing Calif. needs, another theme park.

I wonder if this place turns a euro?

http://www.tropical-islands.de

edit: I thought Tropical Islands was built in an old Zeppelin hangar. In trying to locate its history I discovered it's relatively modern - built in 2000 for a heavy lifter company that went bust. Taxpayer funded reconstruction project for the former East Germany?

[Edited 2011-08-13 04:00:50]

[Edited 2011-08-13 04:01:53]
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
And out of curiosity, where were all the preservationist the last decade as the facility set empty? Did anyone step up with money and offer to take it off the governments hands?

I could be mistaken but based on what I recall reading they've been doing exactly what they've been doing now. Talking a lot, writing letters, starting petitions and maybe websites. That's it.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
Under this premisse us Europeans should tear down all these medieval castles we have everywhere.

Preserving historical structures is a great thing, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Not only are Europe's castles significantly older than this hangar, they are a significant asset to the tourism industry and it's not difficult to figure out what to do with them if/when they are restored.

This hangar isn't that old. Isn't one of a kind and hasn't been of real use for a long time. Someone else proposed an aircraft musuem inside it... there's already a similar hangar with an aircraft museum inside it on the west coast! How many world class air museums should we have on the west coast?

I'm not against it being restored, but I'm against the idea of using public financing to get it done.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:06 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 18):

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
Under this premisse us Europeans should tear down all these medieval castles we have everywhere.

Preserving historical structures is a great thing, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Not only are Europe's castles significantly older than this hangar, they are a significant asset to the tourism industry and it's not difficult to figure out what to do with them if/when they are restored.

This hangar isn't that old. Isn't one of a kind and hasn't been of real use for a long time. Someone else proposed an aircraft musuem inside it... there's already a similar hangar with an aircraft museum inside it on the west coast! How many world class air museums should we have on the west coast?

Neither is the coal mine nor the steel mill and foundry, but they are important for the respective region´s heritage. Unfortunately the large Zeppelin hangar in FRA was demolished in 1940 on Göring´s orders (he hated lighter than air aircraft), together with the Hindenburg´s sister ship "Graf Zeppelin II" and the original Graf Zeppelin.

BTW, many of the castles are either ruins (which still have to be secured as not to be a hazard to the public) or else open to the public without any direct commercial interest. We see things like this as part of our heritage and preserve it, if necessary, with public funds.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:03 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 14):
Are they not making vodka in it anymore?

I assume you're talking about Hangar 1 Vodka. Wrong Hangar 1. They're in Hangar 1 at Alameda, not Moffett.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
zanl188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:29 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
Neither is the coal mine nor the steel mill and foundry, but they are important for the respective region´s heritage.

How is the building at Moffett important to the regions heritage? California is not known as a hotbed of airship activity as Germany is/was.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
We see things like this as part of our heritage and preserve it, if necessary, with public funds.

What kind of tax rate does the typical German worker pay to support this level of funding?

Must be a part of recent European thinking because as you note many of the Castles are still in ruins & the airship hangar at FRA is non-existent.
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StuckInCA
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:02 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
Neither is the coal mine nor the steel mill and foundry, but they are important for the respective region´s heritage.

Maybe they shouldn't have recieved public funding. I don't know.

Look, the website for the group fighting to preserve this hangar doesn't even present any argument as to why it should be preserved. No attempt to paint it as historically significant. No proposed use. No justification whatsoever.

I appreciate the hangar (really, I've been in it, worked next to it), but it's not useful. To most, it's not beautiful. It has no purpose other to stand there and cost money. To be honest, it isn't even important to the region's heritage (I'd argue). Sure there is history there, but the whole area has been completely redefined as the silicon valley which has nothing to do with the hangar.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:30 am

What about a museum about the US´s history concerning airships? After all you used to have a fleet of four big ones (the Los Angeles, built by Zeppelin and given to the US as reparation for WW1, the Shenandoah, the Akron and the Macon) plus numerous smaller blimps used for anti-submarine work.
Especially the Macon and Akron had some very intersting features, having been designed as fling aircraft carriers.
Moffett Field would be a natural location for such a museum (the other place would be Lakehurst in New Jersey).
AFAIK the only leftover Zeppelin anchor mast surviving is located in Recife, Brazil.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:02 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 23):
What about a museum about the US´s history concerning airships?

I like your idea. I've been to a lot of aircraft museums, including the official Army, USAF, USN ones, and there are no blimps of course. At the USN one in Pensacola they have a gondola and engine and some other parts displayed but that's the most I've seen or know about.

It would be nice to see an airship museum, though I'm not sure how many people would be attracted to it that aren't already aircraft enthusiast.
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mham001
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:02 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 13):
While the hangar is a cool and historical structure, I'm not sure it's worth saving at this point. Is there a group at the ready with money to spend maintaining (and restoring) it? Is there a planned use?

Talking about what could be done with it is getting old. There's been lots of talk for a long time but the thing is just getting older and more run down.

I'm with you. It's an odd eyesore, it sits on very expensive land, nobody has presented a viable use for the thing and airships are not something associated with Silicon Valley so I don't see it as a tourist attraction... maybe they can dismantle it, ship it to Germany and let them spend the money to preserve it.
 
kingairta
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:14 pm

32 million to reskin it? Ouch!!! Don't forget the structure. How safe is it still? I made a few attempts to get to the top but chickened out because I didn't feel safe on the steps.

I remember one day the San Francisco 49ers used it for an indoor practice facility because the weather was so bad they couldn't use their training facility in Santa Clara. We took the day off so they could have full use of that huge floor. Also the NHL used Hangar 1 for one of their All-Star dinners.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:35 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 25):
I'm with you. It's an odd eyesore, it sits on very expensive land, nobody has presented a viable use for the thing and airships are not something associated with Silicon Valley so I don't see it as a tourist attraction... maybe they can dismantle it, ship it to Germany and let them spend the money to preserve it.

If it is gone, it is gone. Then it will be prohibitively expensive to rebuild it.

In any case, if you want something to be interesting to the great unwashed masses, you´ll need something like Disneyland.

I think this is the problem with you Americans. You are fixated if something will be commercially viable in short time only. You don´t think about the long time impact (e.g. 100 - 200 years from now or later). What will happen to the land? Another soulless shoppingt mall?
If you don´t have the money to restore it now, preserve it to prevent further decay and rethink the project if there is money available.
I know that we regret that, due to political reasons (Göring being strongly in favour of heavier-than-air flight and trying to destroy the lighter-than-air competition) our Zeppelin remains were scrapped.

We even regret now the demolition of the former communist East Berlin "Palast der Republik", which was not only the seat of the East German "parliament" (actually the post revolution real East German parliament sat there for a few months between the overthrow of the communists and the re-unification), but also house a huge, advanced theatre. OK, the building was, as most buildings from the 1970s, contaminated with asbestos, but it could have well cleaned up. Instead some ultraconservatives wanted to erease all signs of the German communist past and wanted to build a copy of the old imperial German palace (the Kaiser´s palace, which was located in this place until the communists blew it up in the 1950s). Now there is no money for either and we are left with an empty eyesore right in the middle of Berlin.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
HaveBlue
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:57 pm

I agree with you to a point MD11Engineer.. just as far as aircraft goes there are many times when no or almost no example was left after scrapping... aircraft that would be priceless now or at least historically important.
Here Here for Severe Clear!
 
mham001
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:00 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 27):
I think this is the problem with you Americans. You are fixated if something will be commercially viable in short time only. You don´t think about the long time impact (e.g. 100 - 200 years from now or later). What will happen to the land? Another soulless shoppingt mall?

Exactly what do you believe is the historical significance of this building?
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:32 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 27):
I think this is the problem with you Americans. You are fixated if something will be commercially viable in short time only. You don´t think about the long time impact (e.g. 100 - 200 years from now or later).

In general, I would probably be described as a preservationist. I think you're missing context in this case. I'm not going to do research right now, but I don't think that hangar has been used for much of anything in decades. Seriously. It's only 80-ish years old and has been sitting around doing nothing. It's just not that valuable. It's NOT the heart of an industry in the area, it doesn't have cultural significance, it simply doesn't have real value. It's cool, but that's not enough.

That area is completely devoid of soul or character anyway. Even if it did become another strip mall it wouldn't be any harm. The harm would be wasting public funds on that building. I'd sooner have spent money trying to save an orchard or something before they built one of the zillion light-industrial office parks full of one and done tech businesses.
 
psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:04 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
And out of curiosity, where were all the preservationist the last decade as the facility set empty? Did anyone step up with money and offer to take it off the governments hands?

They've been fighting the Navy on this for most of this decade. I moved back to the Bay Area in 2005 after 20 years in New York, and the "save hangar one" campaign was in full swing back then. The problem is that the Navy has been hell bent on demolishing the hangar, no matter what everyone else thinks and despite the fact that it's a landmark. The Moffett Users http://www.nuqu.org/ has more.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:41 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 31):
I moved back to the Bay Area in 2005 after 20 years in New York, and the "save hangar one" campaign was in full swing back then.

I'm pretty sure it's been longer than that. I remember chatter, organized or not, from years before that.

Quoting psa188 (Reply 31):
no matter what everyone else thinks

But does anyone have any real ideas on what to do with it or how to pay for it? Or do they just want the hangar preserved because, uh, they want it preserved.

Quoting psa188 (Reply 31):
Moffett Users http://www.nuqu.org/ has more.

Is there anything in there about potential uses for a restored hangar or possible funding sources other than public? I searched around a bit and mostly just saw lots of pictures of the skins coming off and posts about denied public funding.
 
psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:57 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 32):
I'm pretty sure it's been longer than that. I remember chatter, organized or not, from years before that.

I'm sure you're right. My point is that the controversy predates my 2005 relocation from NYC to the Bay Area.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 32):

But does anyone have any real ideas on what to do with it or how to pay for it?

There's no shortage of proposed uses. My personal favorite is a world class aviation museum. They could have used it for one of the shuttles.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 32):
Is there anything in there about potential uses for a restored hangar or possible funding sources other than public?

RE: potential uses, see above. Regarding non-public funding, next-door Google could pay for it out of petty cash. They could use part if it to park their aircraft fleet.

Get the rest of the silicon valley elite to chip in and it's certainly do-able.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:07 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 33):
There's no shortage of proposed uses. My personal favorite is a world class aviation museum. They could have used it for one of the shuttles.

I guess I'm wondering about uses proposed by groups that are likely to actually put the building to said use. There is already a world class aircraft museum (at least one) on the west coast that tried to get a shuttle and did not. Where's the organization with a collection of aircraft and a business model to put to use in that building?

Quoting psa188 (Reply 33):
RE: potential uses, see above. Regarding non-public funding, next-door Google could pay for it out of petty cash. They could use part if it to park their aircraft fleet.

Did they ever express such interest?

There are lots of individuals that could pay for it outright as a room to put a desk in to to sit in the corner and huff glue, but all I hear is people proposing ideas for what someone else could do with it.

Same as it ever was.
 
psa188
Topic Author
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:54 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 34):
Where's the organization with a collection of aircraft and a business model to put to use in that building?

I know that there have been proposals for re-use, nobody is saying to just preserve it for its own sake. I think that much of the political fight so far has been to try to stop the navy from demolishing the hangar. Once it is gone there's no point in arguing about re-use. Through the political process, the Navy has gone from complete demolition to just removing the siding and leaving the frame intact. Now the argument is over who pays to "re-skin" the hangar and get it ready for re-use. The http://www.nuqu.org/ has more, but you'll have to dig around through their archives.

Meanwhile, the Restore Hangar One petition surpassed 600 signatures, and it is
gaining momentum. While most signers are local, people from all over the
country - and even abroad - have declared their support. Many of the
comments are compelling.

See http://www.PetitionOnline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?SHOC2011&1

Please spread the word. Use your lists, social networks, and even the
telephone!
 
n53614
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:31 pm

I remember hearing in a Moffett Field restoration advisory board meeting that Lockheed (or a similar defense contractor) was looking for a West Coast home for a large airship --Hangar One would have been a good spot for it. I haven't heard anything since though.
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psa188
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:01 pm

Quoting n53614 (Reply 36):
I remember hearing in a Moffett Field restoration advisory board meeting that Lockheed (or a similar defense contractor) was looking for a West Coast home for a large airship --Hangar One would have been a good spot for it

That's a good option. Fact is, Hangar one is big enough that part of it could become a museum and part could be used for modern lighter than air craft (which are not nearly as big as their 1930s counterparts.) The problem is that the Navy has been gung ho to demolish the hangar and scoot out of town having done their environmental "mitigation." It's been a full time effort just trying to slow them down and save the hangar (or at least the frame.) Now the trick will be finding someone to pay to re-skin the hanger and make it usable again.
 
psa188
Topic Author
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:01 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 23):
What about a museum about the US´s history concerning airships?

If you're ever over this way, you can visit the Moffett Field Historical Society Museum
http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/

It's not exclusively a LTA museum, although the Macon period is definitely covered:
http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/pop4.html

The museum follows Moffett's entire history, from the 1930s to the present day.

The Museum of Monterey also has an exhibit on the Macon, which crashed into the Pacific near Point Sur, California in 1935.
http://museumofmonterey.org/visit-us/about-mom/
 
gigneil
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RE: Restore Moffett Field's Hangar One

Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
I assume you're talking about Hangar 1 Vodka. Wrong Hangar 1. They're in Hangar 1 at Alameda, not Moffett.

Ah. That makes some sense then.

NS

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