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spudh
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What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:01 pm

I was reading Clarence Kelly Johnsons book the other day and in it he bemoaned the US's lack of big forging presses saying that the biggest ones in the country were ones they had recovered from the Germans after the end of WWII. This got me thinking about what happened to the 'spoils of war'. In particular I'm thinking about fighters but it goes for tanks too.

The ME262 was the most advanced fighter in service any where in the world in 1945, there were about 1,400 made by the end of the war. Did any of those enter service with any airforce after the war? Same goes for the FW190 which was about as good a piston engined fighter flying at war end. I know the Spanish used merlin engined 109's but Franco may gave gotten those during the war and just re-engined them when they ran out of spares. I assume all the transport planes found their way into civilian hands.

Anyone have any info on what happned to the Luftwaffe fighters after the war or if any 'spoils of war' actually entered service with any countries ?
 
Stealthz
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:15 pm

I think a few examples of advanced types were taken by the "victors" for research(copying!).*

I can't think of many that saw further service apart from the Spanish ones, they may have got those before the war though.

Many of the thousands of Axis aircraft did not survive the war and of the ones that did most would have been destroyed in the Summer and Autumn of 1945, as were many Allied aircraft.**

I am sure some of the experts here will have more information.

Cheers


* It is said there is more than a little Me-262 in the F-86 Sabre

** I have a freind who recently dived a site off a Pacific Island that contains literallly squadrons of aircraft like F4-U Corsairs and dozens of trucks and other vehicles that were just pushed into the sea in 1945 before the troops returned home.
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Spacepope
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:27 pm

The French operated 64 FW-190 postwar.

A squadron was set up in the US operating ME-262s for testing postwar, however there was a fairly high accident rate and the program didn't last long. See "Operation Lusty".

Czechs operated 12 ME-262 (Avia S-92) till 1951.
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spudh
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 2):
The French operated 64 FW-190 postwar.

A squadron was set up in the US operating ME-262s for testing postwar, however there was a fairly high accident rate and the program didn't last long. See "Operation Lusty".

Czechs operated 12 ME-262 (Avia S-92) till 1951.

Wow, thanks for the info Spacepope.

I just wiki'd Avia and came across reference to the Israeli air force using the Avia version of the Bf109. :doh: I remember reading that before.

Never heard about the french using the FW-190 though. I knew it was too good an aircraft to just dump. I'd imagine that was a squadron originally stationed in Vichy France.
 
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larshjort
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:42 pm

Of all the warplanes in Denmark on the 5th of May 1945, only a few survived and most of those were destryed in the autumn in a "wargame" wer RAF demonstrated their aircraft.

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
Spacepope
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:32 am

Quoting spudh (Reply 3):
Never heard about the french using the FW-190 though. I knew it was too good an aircraft to just dump. I'd imagine that was a squadron originally stationed in Vichy France.

AFAIK these were new production machines from SNCA, called NC900

Turkey flew the FW-190 till 1949
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Spacepope
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:55 am

A little more research shows that in addition to Spain, the BF-109 served well into the 1950s in Finland, Romania and Switzerland.
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prebennorholm
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:56 am

At the end of the war, when practically all air bases on German soil had been taken by the allied troops, a very large part of the Luftwaffe planes had fled to nazi occupied Denmark. Here they were more or less stranded due to lack of fuel. Denmark was filled with countless hundreds of Luftwaffe planes. All types were here, trainers, fighters, night fighters, attack planes, bombers, transports. Only the Me163 rocket plane was missing.

Only a few were taken home by the British and Americans for investigation and testing.

First the Germans were told to unscrew the propellers to eliminate any chance that they got in the air. There are photos of endless lines of planes without propellers.

During the next couple of weeks the British troops drove over them all with tanks. The remains was sold locally as scrap.

During the next few years most low value Danish coins were made of aluminum, so if you want a part of a Luftwaffe WWII plane, become a Danish coin collector...  

I have been told that at AAL in northern Denmark there were long rows of parked railroad cars containing brand new Fw190 planes. They only needed to have the wings screwed on and - more important - have some fuel in the tanks.

Some people have told that it was a big shame that those planes were destroyed since Denmark could have used them to build up an air force fast instead of waiting a few years for 300 Meteors and F-84s.

Others have told that those Fw190s were deathtraps since they were extremely bad quality built hastily by unskilled mostly Russian and Ukrainian POW slaves.

Not one single Luftwaffe plane survived summer 1945 on Danish soil. The same thing happened in Norway, but there were fewer planes up there.
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n901wa
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:01 am

I think the Swiss Airforce used Bf.109E untill 1949.

[Edited 2011-09-03 19:33:45]
 
prebennorholm
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:37 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):
A little more research shows that in addition to Spain, the BF-109 served well into the 1950s in Finland, Romania and Switzerland.

Czechoslovakia produced between 1947 and 1949 550 modified Me-109G-6 with the name Avia S-199. The last one was retired from their air force in 1957. (Avia was the aviation branch of the widespread Skoda works which had been put to work building 109s for Luftwaffe during the war).

It was very disliked in service, and consequently pilots nicknamed it "Mezek" (mule).

25 examples were exported to Israel in 1948, where they turned the tide in the War of Liberation, flown by Israeli pilots as well as loads of experienced, volunteer fighter pilots from many countries. In Israeli Air Force it was officially named "Sakeen" ("Knife" in Hebrew). They had a rather easy game downing Egyptian DC-3 bombers. They were hastily replaced by WWII surplus Spitfires and Mustangs.
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GPHOTO
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:02 am

While a number of aircraft were indeed kept by the allies for research purposes, the majority of axis aircraft were scrapped, for the same reason that most allied aircraft were scrapped. The aircraft materials were useful for rebuilding the world - swords to plowshares as it were, but also they were a ready source of aircraft grade material for the new designs coming along for the upcoming Cold War. Some did manage to survive to form the basis of a number of fledgling air arms, but these tended to be the more successful allied designs like the Spitfire and Mustang. It is many of these aircraft that have survived to become todays warbirds and display aircraft. Plenty of good examples given in the above posts.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 7):
ers have told that those Fw190s were deathtraps since they were extremely bad quality built hastily by unskilled mostly Russian and Ukrainian POW slaves.

Indeed. Aircraft built under these conditions were likely to have a lower quality of build. As well as being made by a lowly motivated workforce with reduced training, there was also the risk of sabotage, which could be very subtly done. Some sabotage was designed not to be detected until long after the aircraft had left the factory - usually not revealed until flight or combat. This gave the workers some protection from reprisals and could put the pilot in a potentially life threatening situation. A two-for-one bonus you might say.

Fascinating to hear about the aluminium coins in Denmark!

Best regards,

Jim
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ptrjong
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:19 pm

Quoting spudh (Reply 3):

Never heard about the french using the FW-190 though. I knew it was too good an aircraft to just dump. I'd imagine that was a squadron originally stationed in Vichy France.

The French Wikipedia article on the Fw 190 explains that dozens were found in a repair shop in Cravant, Yonne, and that refurbishing them was cheaper than buying Spitfires at that particular moment.

Despite this, in general, there was of course a mass of thousands and thousands of perfectly good Allied warplanes available in 1945, so Fw 190s and other good aircraft were simply dumped. Why bother with scratched, worn, undocumented German planes if you can get any number of almost new P-51s for next to nothing?

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):

The aircraft you mention were all simply bought from Germany before 1945, or built in these countries, so they are not really on topic I think.

Peter 

[Edited 2011-09-04 05:59:36]
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LMP737
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:39 pm

The only Arado 234 in existance is now in the Natonal AIr and Space Museum.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19600312000
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ptrjong
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:16 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 12):

Since this is still an aviation photo site:

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Photo © David Lednicer
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Photo © Mark Carlisle

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Eagleboy
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:59 am

I'll add my photo of the Arado to this thread:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tearbri...65812646/in/set-72157622327491171/

Note the parachute equipped on the reusable rocket engines used solely for take-off.

In additional here is the Dornier Do335 Pfeil, the fastest piston engine aircraft of WWII.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tearbri...65861958/in/set-72157622327491171/

The aircraft in Udvar-Hazy display the official WWII Luftwaffe markings which are not permitted in Germany, as any Nazi symbols are illegal.


This museum also hold the sole remaining example of the Japanese Aichi M6A1 'Seiran':
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tearbri...965834346/in/set-72157622327491171

As we reached this point in the tour a US tourist spoke out with the statement "Why are all these foreign aircraft here in the US?", cue my dramatic "To the victor goes the spoils" which unfortunately was wasted on the first speaker........
 
BMI727
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:35 am

Quoting spudh (Thread starter):
Anyone have any info on what happned to the Luftwaffe fighters after the war or if any 'spoils of war' actually entered service with any countries ?

Quite a few ended up with the Israelis.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 6):
the BF-109 served well into the 1950s in Finland, Romania and Switzerland.

I'm pretty sure the Swiss ones were purchased before or during the war and not actually spoils of war.

Also, the Bf-108 was produced in France after the war which made life considerably easier for producers of war movies.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:27 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
I'm pretty sure the Swiss ones were purchased before or during the war and not actually spoils of war.

Actually the Swiss airforce forced quite a few German and Allied aircraft, which strayed into Swiss airspace, to land on Swiss soil. There they were (together with the crews) interned until the end of the war. After the war AFAIK, the Allied aircraft were returned to the owners, but the Swiss kept the German ones they could use.

Jan
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BMI727
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:01 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
Actually the Swiss airforce forced quite a few German and Allied aircraft, which strayed into Swiss airspace, to land on Swiss soil. There they were (together with the crews) interned until the end of the war. After the war AFAIK, the Allied aircraft were returned to the owners, but the Swiss kept the German ones they could use.

They did do that, but Switzerland also ordered and took delivery of Bf-109s in 1939 and 1940, and I believe that some later variants were produced under license there as well.
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ptrjong
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:18 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 14):
The aircraft in Udvar-Hazy display the official WWII Luftwaffe markings which are not permitted in Germany, as any Nazi symbols are illegal.

Museums can get permission.

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LMP737
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:50 pm

Another one of a kind German fighter at the NASM is the TA-152 currently undergoing restoration. A fast aircraft that even looked fast with it's longer fuselage and wing.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A19600317000
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Eagleboy
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:51 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 18):
Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 14):
The aircraft in Udvar-Hazy display the official WWII Luftwaffe markings which are not permitted in Germany, as any Nazi symbols are illegal.

Museums can get permission.

I was lied to by a museum guide!!!!! I feel violated!!!

I knew about the nazi symbol law in Germany, I had always assumed museums there would be allowed an exemption as it was for educational reasons.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:47 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 20):

Well, you were basically right. There was even a sign with the Focke-Wulf in Laatzen saying that they were exempted, that this was for historical reasons, and that they were not Nazis. Other German aircraft museums, including offical ones, don't do swastikas.
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prebennorholm
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:46 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 15):
Quoting spudh (Thread starter):
Anyone have any info on what happned to the Luftwaffe fighters after the war or if any 'spoils of war' actually entered service with any countries ?

Quite a few ended up with the Israelis.

Negative. No former luftwaffe planes were flown by Israel.

The closest thing to that was 25 Avia (Skoda) S-199 delivered brand new to Israel in 1948.

S-199 was basically a Czechoslovakian built Bf 109G-6 modified with Jumo 211 engines instead of the normal DB 605.

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Avia-S199-hatzerim-2.jpg

They did not last long. The first plane arrived in Israel on May 20 in 1948, and the last known flight ended with a crash landing by an American volunteer pilot on December 15 same year.
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dlednicer
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:39 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 22):
Negative. No former luftwaffe planes were flown by Israel.

The closest thing to that was 25 Avia (Skoda) S-199 delivered brand new to Israel in 1948.

Funny enough, at least one of the Avia fuselages is known to have had a Bf 109G serial number plate.

While we are at it, some pictures. Two I took 18 years a part:

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Photo © David Lednicer

 
RIXrat
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:27 am

When I was a kid growing up in eastern Pennsylvania, the Willow Grove NAS had a display of an Me-262, a Bf-109, a Japanese Zero, and some kind of Japanese manned rocket plane. These were behind the fence, but the Navy had made accommodations for a small parking lot for the interested. I've always wondered what happened to them.
 
cmb56
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:31 pm

Nothing unusual in that most Germain aircraft were simply destroyed. For example most if not all of the US B-26 Maruaders in Europe were simple destroyed in place rather than bother to bring them home. The last 200 or so Typhoon fighters delivered by Hawker never even flew. They came off the assembly line fully combat ready, were towed across the field and scrapped. The US did very similar things at home, there are photos of hundreds of P-40 and P-39s stacked like chord wood waiting to be cut up. I worked with a guy who as a young boy saw and entire hanger full of WWII aircraft simply pushed in a trench, crushed, and buried. By time the US was involved in Korea the Marine Corp had to pull Corsair fighters out of crates and put them back together. The Air Force had destroyed virtually all their P-47s and P-38 which many would consider better CAS aircraft that the Mustang. My father was in North Africa and saw piles of weapons as high as hay stacks that they collected from the Afrika Corp. All of it was destroyed.
 
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dlednicer
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 24):
When I was a kid growing up in eastern Pennsylvania, the Willow Grove NAS had a display of an Me-262, a Bf-109, a Japanese Zero, and some kind of Japanese manned rocket plane. These were behind the fence, but the Navy had made accommodations for a small parking lot for the interested. I've always wondered what happened to them.

The Me 262B-1a from Willow Grove was restored by the Legend Fliers and used as a pattern for the replicas they have built. It is now on display at the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, Florida. Before and after shots:

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Photo © Steve Williams
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Photo © Roland Bergmann-Spotterteam Graz



The Ar 196 was also transferred to the National Museum of Naval Aviation in Pensacola, Florida.

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Photo © Steve Williams



The Kawanishi N1K2-J Shiden-Kai is now in the NASM's Steven Udvar-Hazy Center:

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Photo © Steve Williams
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Photo © David Lednicer



The Nakajima B6N2 Tenzan is now also at NASM.


The Nakajima J9Y Kikka is now also at NASM.


They had a A6M7 Model 62 that is now in the San Diego Aerospace Museum.


They also had a Kawanishi N1K1 Kyofu, that is at the National Museum of Naval Aviation.


[Edited 2011-09-06 18:09:01]
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:26 am

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 25):
were towed across the field and scrapped.

How much would they´ve been worth now?????
I don´t argue with your logic, (money talk$) but what a shame--> loads of people would have liked to own a (disabled) airframe I guess.
I know I would…….


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spudh
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:58 am

This thread is developing really nicely, great info  

Thanks to everyone for contributing
 
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ptrjong
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:54 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 27):

What exactly are you disagreeing with? According to my WW II atlas, the USA alone built some 90,000 planes in 1943, some 90,000 in 1944, 20,000 in 1944. The great majority would have survived the war. What do you do with a hundred thousand surplus warplanes when peace breaks out? Today we are so rich that we like to preserve them and even fly them at airshows, and would like a few more to have survived. But that was completely irrelevant to the people in 1945. They needed beer cans, too.
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bennett123
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:05 pm

Notaxonrotax

In a similar vein, I was watching a video about the Hunter recently.

One sequence consisted of a trip to the range, where they were blowing chunks out of Spitfire PR19's.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
...Switzerland also ordered and took delivery of Bf-109s in 1939 and 1940, and I believe that some later variants were produced under license there as well.

I don't think that the 109 was ever produced in Switzerland, but they did get some more copies in addition to those early birds.

In April 1944 an Me-110 happened to land in Switzerland - in Dübendorf just over the German border. It was equipped with a new and top secret radar, the "Tannenbaum" system. Luftwaffe didn't want to share the new radar technology, so they sent a 10 man team to blow up the plane, but they ended up in Swiss prison before they could do the job.

Goering wasn't delighted. In the end he made a deal with the Swiss: The Me-110 would be blow up witnessed by Luftwaffe people after a dozen new Bf-109 had been handed over to the Swiss air force. And so it happened.

The Swiss crashed a few of those new planes, and then concluded that they were of such inferior quality that it wasn't possible to make flying machines out of them. Then they were scrapped.

The story doesn't tell whether Luftwaffe handpicked the twelve very best Bf.109s for export to Switzerland or...!!! We are free to speculate   
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cmb56
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:55 pm

I forget the percentage that I saw published but something like 5% of all ME-109s built were destroyed in ground accidents. The narrow landing gear and poor cockpit visibility made for a lot of accidents. Maybe that is what the Swiss had problems with. Once in the air it apparently flew pretty well.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:34 am

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 32):
The narrow landing gear and poor cockpit visibility made for a lot of accidents. Maybe that is what the Swiss had problems with.

The 109 had a decade long career in the Swiss air force. The Swiss knew its limitations very well.

90 D-1 and E-3 planes were bought in 1938 to 1940. The bulk of the E-3s served until 1949-1950 when they were replaced by jet fighters such as Vampires.

Those twelve 1944 planes were all the "much improved" G-6 type. But by May 1948 the last one had been scrapped due to "numerous manufacturing deficiencies" which had caused several accidents.
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Venus6971
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 33):
Those twelve 1944 planes were all the "much improved" G-6 type. But by May 1948 the last one had been scrapped due to "numerous manufacturing deficiencies" which had caused several accidents.

What do you want from acft that were built by slave labor, what incentive did the workers have to produce quality work besides give me numbers or you die.
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canoecarrier
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:04 pm

Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 10):
Fascinating to hear about the aluminium coins in Denmark!

First I'd heard of that as well. Very interesting.

Quoting GPHOTO (Reply 10):
Some sabotage was designed not to be detected until long after the aircraft had left the factory - usually not revealed until flight or combat.

There are many stories of German aircraft crashing because of some form of sabotage. Here's some video of a FW190 found outside of Leningrad in a forest clearing not that long ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jueDXiuU6aM

If the description is to be trusted, it was because of a clogged oil line (i.e., sabotage). Not sure of the current disposition of this aircraft but it was supposed to be restored.

There's also some interesting video of an exhibition of captured German equipment in Gorky park circa 1943 I saw recently. If you're a military history/equipment buff this is must watch video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE94nxIWjws

One can only wonder what the Soviets ended up doing with all this equipment but I'm sure it met much the same fate as those that ended up in western hands.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
Actually the Swiss airforce forced quite a few German and Allied aircraft, which strayed into Swiss airspace, to land on Swiss soil. There they were (together with the crews) interned until the end of the war.

1,700 + or - american airmen were interned in Switzerland during WW2. Also little known (at least in the west) is that Switzerland was inadvertently bombed many times by Allied aircraft. Either by damaged bombers releasing their bombs early to return to base, or most famously the daylight bombing of Schaffhausen on 1 April 1944 by the United States Army Air Forces was the most serious. 50 US B-24's killed 40 Swiss.



edit: a little more research shows I can go visit this lovely FW190 just up the road in Everett at Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Collection. Fully restored.

http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=81


[Edited 2011-09-15 14:21:11]
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canoecarrier
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:55 pm

I apologize for the length of this post in advance, but here's one very good example of what happened to captured German aircraft based at RAF Brize Norton:

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of 6 MU's work at this time however, was the storage of captured German aircraft after their evaluation at Farnborough, or use as "hacks" by the occupying forces. The first to arrive was a Junkers Ju. 188 on the 10th May, and between then and 1947, when the last new arrivals were received, around 70 aircraft were handled, the most numerous being the Junkers Ju. 52/3M and the Messerschmitt Me. 163B, with about 20 examples of each.

In addition to storage, the German aircraft were also sent out to various exhibitions, including Hyde Park in September 1945 (Me 163, He 162, Me 108, Me 110, Fw 190, Ju 88 and Fi 156) and Brize Norton's own Battle "At Home" Day on the same day (15th September) when the following were displayed: Ju 52/3M, Ar 234B, Fw 190, Fw 189, Ju 188, Ju 88, Me 262, He 162, He 219, Si 204. In addition, another He 162 plus an Me 163 were dispatched to Little Rissington on loan for their open day.

Although some aircraft were passed to 47 MU at Sealand, 76 MU at Wroughton and various other RAF stations in ones and twos, the vast majority lingered on at Brize, with the larger aircraft open to the elements until the bad winter of 1946/47 took its toll. Many of the aircraft were overturned in the gales, and others suffered from falling trees, and shortly after this, the wholesale scrapping began. The aircraft were taken to the south side of the airfield where 6 MU were already scrapping Spitfires, Spitefuls and Liberators. After all useful pieces and large metal areas had been removed, the mortal remains were buried in twenty feet deep holes where they remain to this day . This burial process was quite common with another pit being sited out beyond Brize Norton village in farmland, to accommodate the remains of aircraft that had been stored in dispersed sites.


Sad. Source: http://rafbrizenorton.yolasite.com/history-1942-1950.php
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
baroque
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:20 pm

In a book I have at home is a pic of a UK escort carrier loaded in 1945 with German planes for transport to the US - as in about 30 or 40 planes crammed on the small flight deck. Who knows what below! Will try to post it when I get back - ??HMS Boxer???

Ed. Not Boxer, no carrier of that name - the mango mousse strikes again.

[Edited 2011-09-16 09:28:31]
 
canoecarrier
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:00 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 37):
In a book I have at home is a pic of a UK escort carrier loaded in 1945 with German planes for transport to the US - as in about 30 or 40 planes crammed on the small flight deck.

Probably the HMS Reaper, a Bogue class escort carrier leased to the RN.



Some photos of captured German aircraft on the Reaper and ship history here:
http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive.org.uk/BPF-EIF/Ships/Reaper.htm

More photos of "Operation Seahorse" the Reaper's transportation of German aircraft back to the US.
http://www.stormbirds.com/squadron/mission/seahorse.htm

I did some more research last night. Near the end of the war the US initiated "Operation Lusty" sending US Army Air Intelligence Service agents across Europe to find and recover any aircraft, technical reports, etc.

Hap Arnold ordered the preservation of one type of every aircraft used by the Germans. Once they were found they had to be sent back to the US. Fortunately, the British had the Reaper and lent it to the cause. It left from Cherbourg for Newark Army Air Field. Later on in the 40's the larger aircraft went to Davis-Monthan with the smaller (fighters) going to Park Ridge (now O'hare). That lasted until the early 50's when the Korean War necessitated they be moved. Those that weren't sent to the National Air and Space Museum were scrapped.

There is a story that an American-captured example of the Heinkel He 177A-7, a late war development of the Luftwaffe's only operational heavy bomber, had been ferried from Europe to the Park Ridge depot, only to be crushed flat and buried under the modern O'Hare airport runways.

Operation Lusty was responsible, wholly or partly, for the existence of the sole surviving examples of the German Heinkel He 219 night fighter, and the Arado Ar 234 jet reconnaissance/bomber, that are in the collection of the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum.

[Edited 2011-09-16 10:07:43]

[Edited 2011-09-16 10:51:19]
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
baroque
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RE: What Happened To German WW2 Fighters?

Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:23 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 38):

Probably the HMS Reaper, a Bogue class escort carrier leased to the RN.

Thanks, that looks like the same cargo, but ?a different angle. I did not know the whys and wherefores of that voyage, so thanks for the information. Now I know why!

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