MadameConcorde
Topic Author
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

"Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:35 pm

Short article with video

"Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field During Airshow

... we observe the curious case of the JH-7 "Flying Leopard" which during an exhibition airshow decided to show just how effective gravity is at combating those pesky "highly reliable license-built Spey Mk202 engines" which as the AP reports were "considered unlikely that both would have stalled at the same time"...They stalled.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/pride-...jet-nosedives-field-during-airshow

    Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
ronglimeng
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:12 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:31 pm

There seems to be a little bit of schadenfreude both here and in reports elsewhere over the crash of this aircraft.

I saw the footage of the crash and I had the opinion that the pilot must have ridden it down as long as he could to ensure that it augured in well away from spectators. Protecting airshow spectators is a good thing, right?

I don't take much enjoyment from seeing airplanes "showing how effective gravity is", Chinese or otherwise.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:51 pm

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 1):
There seems to be a little bit of schadenfreude both here and in reports elsewhere over the crash of this aircraft.

The link above isn't really from a reputable news site or defense blog. FWIW here's the CNN article:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/world/...ia/china-air-show-crash/?hpt=wo_c2

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 1):

I don't take much enjoyment from seeing airplanes "showing how effective gravity is", Chinese or otherwise.

Unfortunately, planes do crash at airshows occasionally. Just this year the Red Arrows lost a plane at a show, and I don't remember the tone of the article being nearly as gloating. From the news reports one of the Chinese pilots didn't eject.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
MadameConcorde
Topic Author
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 2):
The link above isn't really from a reputable news site or defense blog. FWIW here's the CNN article:

ZeroHedge is a reputable financial blog - many experts contributing - not main stream I admit but certainly reputable. What makes you think that CNN is more reputable regarding defense or aviation?

 
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
User avatar
Semaex
Posts: 734
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:17 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
ZeroHedge is a reputable financial blog - many experts contributing - not main stream I admit but certainly reputable. What makes you think that CNN is more reputable regarding defense or aviation?

I don't know much about either news agency, but my mom always used to say "the tone makes the music"  
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:18 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 3):
ZeroHedge is a reputable financial blog - many experts contributing - not main stream I admit but certainly reputable. What makes you think that CNN is more reputable regarding defense or aviation?

I'm only noting that someone likely died and as was noted above the tone of the article is a little gloating. Here's how it was reported in one of the blogs I follow:

http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/...hes-in-china-military-airshow.html

2011-10-14 (China Military News cited from xinhuanet.com) -- An JH-7A Fighter plummeted to the ground Friday morning during an air show held for the 2011 China International General Aviation Convention in northwest China's Shaanxi Province, the executive committee of the convention confirmed at a press briefing.

One pilot, who witnesses said suffered minor injuries, survived as he was ejected and parachuted out before the fighter jet fell at 10:47 a.m. after finishing its performance, while another pilot remained missing, said He Liang, a member of the convention's executive committee, at a press conference held Friday afternoon.

Witnesses said the other pilot had been trapped in the jet, which nosedived and crashed to the ground near Neifu Airport in Pucheng County, where the air show was held.


How a pilot "remains missing" when the plane crashes in front of an estimated crowd of 100K people is beyond me. But, if you follow the Chinese military you'll note that they use a lot of smoke and mirrors. I did read that they didn't cancel the airshow, the Chinese do follow "the show must go on" mantra!
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
MadameConcorde
Topic Author
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:15 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 5):
I'm only noting that someone likely died


That was my first thought after I saw the video of the crash: did they eject or not?
Is the "Pride of China" a two-seater or a one-seater?

I have always been cautious about official reports coming from China such as China Military News and xinhuanet.com the same as I was always cautious of Pravda during the Soviet era.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
bennett123
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:35 pm

My starting point is do they have a motive to lie.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:40 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
That was my first thought after I saw the video of the crash: did they eject or not?
Is the "Pride of China" a two-seater or a one-seater?

It's a tandem fighter/bomber. So, there were two people in the plane. The video clearly shows at least one pilot ejecting, but it appears the other did not get out of the aircraft.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I have always been cautious about official reports coming from China such as China Military News and xinhuanet.com the same as I was always cautious of Pravda during the Soviet era.

Very wise. There's not much that comes out of China I'd believe when it comes to their military programs and/or aircraft. Probably doesn't help that there's a lot of rumors floating around right now that one of their prototype J-10B fighters might have crashed this week either.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
GST
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:27 am

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:10 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 5):
How a pilot "remains missing" when the plane crashes in front of an estimated crowd of 100K people is beyond me.

Easy, they've either found the pilot (alive or his remains), or they havent, ergo missing.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 5):
the Chinese do follow "the show must go on" mantra!

Its hardly unique to them. At Farnborough in the 50s a plane broke up in mid air, its engines plummeting into the passenger stands killing dozens, and the show went on. The next test pilots to fly knew the deceased aircrew well and had seen the whole spectacle, I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

My best wishes to the missing pilot's friends & family.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting GST (Reply 9):

Easy, they've either found the pilot (alive or his remains), or they havent, ergo missing.

Not really that easy. Plane crashes within a kilometer of 100K people and 6 hours later he's still "missing". No way. Typical Chinese spin.

Quoting GST (Reply 9):
Its hardly unique to them. At Farnborough in the 50s a plane broke up in mid air, its engines plummeting into the passenger stands killing dozens, and the show went on. The next test pilots to fly knew the deceased aircrew well and had seen the whole spectacle, I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

I don't doubt that, but as when the Red Arrow plane went down and with the P-51 crash in Reno they did cancel the rest of the airshow. Your point about the other pilots knowing the people in the plane that crashed at Farborough probably is one of the reasons we don't keep airshows going anymore after a fatal crash.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
GST
Posts: 808
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:27 am

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:26 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 10):

Not really that easy. Plane crashes within a kilometer of 100K people and 6 hours later he's still "missing". No way. Typical Chinese spin.

It is also rather unlikely that there are large enough pieces to be recognisable as the pilot or his remains, and they're likely buried under a pile of earth and debris anyway. I highly doubt that the Chinese will be going all out digging for the remains where there is no hope of recovering a survivor if it means damaging potential evidence as to why one of their front line aircraft crashed. Working out why and protecting the investment they made in other aircraft and aircrew will take priority, I doubt this would be the case anywhere for that matter. The first remains will be recovered when they are found and the pilot will be pronounced officially dead, but until that point he remains technically missing.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 10):
Your point about the other pilots knowing the people in the plane that crashed at Farborough probably is one of the reasons we don't keep airshows going anymore after a fatal crash.

I don't think its a good idea, just pointing out that it is hardly unique and there are many instances of it happening all over the world and the show going on, so we shouldn't tar them with a brush and entirely skip ourselves.
 
bennett123
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:10 pm

If you recall, there are roughly 2,000 US personnel missing from Vietnam.

It is frankly very unlikely that any of them survived 1975, let alone 2011.

However, until proven to be dead, they remain MIA.
 
MadameConcorde
Topic Author
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:44 am

Bad karma for the Chinese - another most recent incident...

$2.5. million Chinese yacht goes straight down on its maiden voyage
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/2...Hxhc2lhBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQ--;_ylv=3

The Chinese vessel made her maiden voyage in the Yellow River. Although "voyage" probably isn't the right word. "Fiasco" is more appropriate, because the boat instantly sank as it was pushed into the water.

 
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:25 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 13):

Shhhh...it's actually the new stealth sub.
What the...?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 7702
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: "Pride Of China" Fighter Jet Nosedives Into Field

Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:32 pm

About the plane, aircraft engines are an area where the Chinese are clearly lacking, however a double stall can be caused by improper handling, or the conception of the plane apart from the engines (like, how the airflow is managed in front of and in the intakes).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests