mffoda
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India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:39 pm

"Report: India to buy attack helicopters from Boeing, not Russia"

It appears India must be fairly happy with Boeing products, as it looks like they are going for more of them.

First the P-8I, then the C-17 and now the AH-64's. What's next... CH-47F's?

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...helicopters-from-Boeing-not-Russia

"India decided to buy AH-64D Apache helicopters instead of Russian Mi-28 Havoc helicopters as part of a planned 2.5-billion-dollar programme to upgrade India's military helicopter fleet, the Interfax report said.

India's military will acquire at least 22 of the American attack helicopters, and an order increase to 44 aircraft is possible, the report added."
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:00 pm

If the USA does give assurances that future sanctions wont hamper spares...The orders could be much more.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
comorin
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:06 pm

Is this for Close Air Support?
 
AirRyan
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:29 pm

Quoting mffoda (Thread starter):
India decided to buy AH-64D Apache helicopters instead of Russian Mi-28 Havoc helicopters as part of a planned 2.5-billion-dollar programme to upgrade India's military helicopter fleet, the Interfax report said.

Not that the Mi-28 isn't a worthy attack helicopter, let's just be honest - the Apache block III is the gold standard every other attack helicopter in the world is measured by. India is the Western world's greatest ally in all the continent of Asia.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:47 am

I think this is another low key sign that relations may be thawing between India and the US.
What the...?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:50 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 4):


I think this is another low key sign that relations may be thawing between India and the US.

I think when the US realises that there is a war against terror which needs to be supported rather than My war & your war against terror,things will improve better.

All countries that support terror should be equally punished if they do not toe the line of the world.India had hoped for similiar support from the USA against terror sponsoring states.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:39 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 5):
All countries that support terror should be equally punished if they do not toe the line of the world.India had hoped for similiar support from the USA against terror sponsoring states.....

I believe it's slowly dawning on the US that regime change won't do a damned thing to stem the tide of terrorism, nor will coddling states like Pakistan which barely bothers to disguise it's involvement in terrorist activities. The last straw, (hopefully), was bin Laden.

They will need a friendly power in the area strong and stable enough to balance China and they won't get that kind of help from Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, countries from which, they really would do themselves a good long term turn in distancing themselves.

Unfortunately, on one hand they claim to be anti terrorism, and with the other they do give billions of dollars to countries who claim to be friendly yet seem to do everything they can to stab the US in the back.

It stuns me, (even understanding the vagaries of international relations), that the US can decry human rights violations in any country yet continue to prop up the house of Saud...probably the most backward and despotic regime on the planet.

On one hand, they decry 'dirty' oil from the Canadian tarsands yet have no problems filling their tanks with blood bought oil from tyrants.

The problem with India/US relations is....India hasn't been a problem. The US knows that even if they ignore them, the Indians won't back terrorists, or invade anybody or otherwise cause problems. As a result, India gets ignored.

In this case, the squeaky wheel really does get the grease...in the form of trillions of dollars of support.

I may be a wide eyed optimist, but I really hope they are beginning to see the error of their ways and look around to see who their real friends are...India among them.
What the...?
 
LAXintl
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:37 pm

22 is nice, however need a force more like 220 to make a proper presence in such a large and spread out nation.

Btw - also who will operate these? The India Army, or AF?
As I recall the AF operates the current Indian fleet of Mi-35 Hind's.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Eagleboy
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:17 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 4):
I think this is another low key sign that relations may be thawing between India and the US

And the blind eye towards (if not candid approval of) their Nuclear weapons wasn't?

India put military pressure on Pakistan in late 2001/early 2002, who then asked the US to get them to ease off, the US did in return for more assistance against the Taliban in Afghanistan, several years later India suddenly has an Nuclear capability!!1
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:52 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
The problem with India/US relations is....India hasn't been a problem. The US knows that even if they ignore them, the Indians won't back terrorists, or invade anybody or otherwise cause problems. As a result, India gets ignored.

India being a proven Democracy where Freedom is enjoyed.The people of India are disapointed with certain countries not being fair to tackle cross border terror.
What would you do if your neighbour sent Insects in to your home,you would kill the Insects if it continued you would warn the neighbour & if there is no improvement you would teach the neighbour a lesson.
Those are Insects,now replace insects with terrorists & tell me the reaction sought by the countrymen.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 8):
India put military pressure on Pakistan in late 2001/early 2002, who then asked the US to get them to ease off, the US did in return for more assistance against the Taliban in Afghanistan, several years later India suddenly has an Nuclear capability!!

India had Nuclear capability in 1974 Itself.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:59 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):

Thank Canada for the reactors.
What the...?
 
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vishaljo
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:00 pm

Quoting mffoda (Thread starter):
First the P-8I, then the C-17 and now the AH-64's. What's next... CH-47F's?

Yes the CH47 is also in contention for IAF's requirement of Heavy Lift Copters & it may just win
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/01...presentation-to-iaf-comparing.html
 
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bikerthai
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:35 pm

Quoting vishaljo (Reply 11):

Page 7 is so hilarious.

Also, from a Humanitarian Relief stand point, the CH-47 have been getting lots of good press.

bikerthai.
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:49 pm

While I agree I think relations are thawing between the 2 countries I think it boils down to the Apache being proven and over all a much better attack helicopter.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:12 pm

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 13):
While I agree I think relations are thawing between the 2 countries I think it boils down to the Apache being proven and over all a much better attack helicopter.

Having seen the type of manufacturing technology that the Indian had to use to fabricate their Russian Fighters, I wouldn't be surprised if India won't buy a high tech vehicle from Russia again.

Along with the 30% dollar offset requirement in the contract, are the enormous amount of manufacturing know how that gets transferred to the local Indian Companies. The knowledge alone may worth more than the contract itself.

bikerthai
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BarfBag
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:32 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
22 is nice, however need a force more like 220 to make a proper presence in such a large and spread out nation.

The AH64Ds deal is for the heavy attack helo requirement. There's a separate domestic light combat helicopter program that's been progressing well, with almost 200 ordered between IAF and IA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Light_Combat_Helicopter
There are some pics of this here on a.net.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:56 pm

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 13):
While I agree I think relations are thawing between the 2 countries I think it boils down to the Apache being proven and over all a much better attack helicopter.

Was in some paper somewhere.....
USA & Pakistan are Allies but not Friends.
USA & India are Friends but not Allies....

It says it all......
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mffoda
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:04 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Was in some paper somewhere.....
USA & Pakistan are Allies but not Friends.
USA & India are Friends but not Allies....

It says it all......

I like that!   But, it's So 2005... don't you think?  
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:24 am

Quoting mffoda (Reply 17):

I like that!   But, it's So 2005... don't you think?

Maybe the US is getting realistic....But still not 100%.  
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ytz
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:35 am

The problem for the Indians is this...the Russians were unreliable when they had a lock on the Indian market. And of late, they've also been selling some of their best stuff to the Chinese, who inevitably reverse engineer a lot of it and then sell cheap knock-offs to the Pakistanis.

Buying from the US will keep the Russians on their toes. The Indians will also then get some great kit and lots of pro-India lobbying for the US defence industry.

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 8):
And the blind eye towards (if not candid approval of) their Nuclear weapons wasn't?

What blind eye? India was quite public in their efforts towards both nuclear tech and weaponization. They exploded their first device in 1974. That was 7 years after the NPT's cut-off date. Since then, the US has prohibited dual-use tech to India. They also slapped on sanctions after the Pokhran-II tests.

The US did turn a blind eye towards Pakistan's covert efforts at securing nuclear weapons though right until the tit-for-tat nuclear testing made their capability public though. You can bet that there's now probably several analysts at several US intelligence outfits cursing their predecessors who let the Pakistanis get the bomb. It is for that single reason that the US is committed to regularly bribing an army and country that routinely trains forces that kill allied soldiers and civilians around the world (with particular emphasis on the citizens of its neighbours).

I've long maintained that sooner or later the Yanks would figure it out. They are in a battered spouse relationship with Pakistan. But that's slowly coming to an end. And relations with India are really picking up. As little as 5 years ago, the thought of India fielding Apaches, C-17s and P-8Is would have seemed preposterous.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:54 pm

The US has almost no influence over Pakistan, and will continue to be burned by that relationship. Ironically, the same can be said for their relationship with Israel.

Both these countries have nukes, both are aggressive towards their neighbors and both ignore the wishes of the US, regardless of how much money is funneled their way.

I think the battered wife syndrome comparison is quite appropriate.
What the...?
 
ytz
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:10 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 20):
I think the battered wife syndrome comparison is quite appropriate.

Just to give credit where credit is due. That comparison comes from my discussions with US intelligence officials. Nobody should think they don't have a clue what's going on. Whether the political willpower is there to actually tackle the problem is a different discussion.
 
LMP737
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:50 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 6):
On one hand, they decry 'dirty' oil from the Canadian tarsands yet have no problems filling their tanks with blood bought oil from tyrants.

The USA gets the majority of it's imported oil from Canda and Mexico.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:37 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):
As little as 5 years ago, the thought of India fielding Apaches, C-17s and P-8Is would have seemed preposterous.

Technically not preposterous, considering that in order to have the P-8I ready for delivery to India next year, they would have had already started preliminary talks 5 years ago.

But we get your point on the Apaches.   

I for one am glad that there are people on both side of the planet who can see 5 years in to the future (and I definitely don't mean the politicians). 

bikerhtai
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BarfBag
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:43 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):
What blind eye? India was quite public in their efforts towards both nuclear tech and weaponization. They exploded their first device in 1974. That was 7 years after the NPT's cut-off date. Since then, the US has prohibited dual-use tech to India. They also slapped on sanctions after the Pokhran-II tests.

Indeed. For anyone to expect India would not have tested after the Chinese did in 1964 was a bad miscalculation. India for years sought to pursue nuclear disarmament, but we also hedged our bets and developed strategic weapons capabilities.

When it was clear that a nuclear free world would never happen, we went overt. Both the NPT in 1968, and the actions by China and the US in 1971 during the Bangladesh Liberation War, were the final nails in the coffin, ensuring we would develop nukes.

While it's commonly suggested that the nuclear rivalry is subcontinental, it is not. The Pakis clearly have their nukes pointed at us, but our primary strategic deterrent imperative was and has always been the People's Republic of China; the nature of our deterrent development makes that clear.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 24):
but our primary strategic deterrent imperative was and has always been the People's Republic of China; the nature of our deterrent development makes that clear.

...a point that is usually lost. India and China are hugely competitive economically, politically and militarily. They were settling conflicts long before the Europeans got lost on the western route to the Orient.

Pakistan is a thorn in India's side, but the only one in the neighborhood that can cause real problems is China. That's who India has in mind with their military buildup.

ps...your username almost cost me a new keyboard.
What the...?
 
BarfBag
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:24 am

It would not be fair to say that China and India share millennias of conflict. That is because until the 1950s, the two nations did not share a border of any consequence. China to us has always been, and remains, the land beyond Tibet, a distinct entity we consider as an important nurturer of one of our great religions and cultural traditions.

We see the current Sino-Indian border as merely a maximal extent of a present regime, which is why India has hosted the Tibetan government in exile. Naturally, this leads to friction, since we're effectively questioning their integrity.

But this is a recent phenomenon. Certainly, both were major competing cultural influences on its periphery, overlapping in SE Asia, then descriptively called Indochina. For example, far away Angkor Wat in Cambodia was a Hindu, and later Buddhist, temple. But there's no long history of warfare, such as between UK an France.
 
mffoda
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:23 pm

Looks like India is really liking their C-130J's as well... This would bring their total to 21.

"Government has not inked any follow-on deal for acquiring nine additional C-130J Super Hercules military transport aircraft with the US.

However, a Letter of Request (LoR) has been issued to the U.S. Government for the procurement of the additional aircraft. "


http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...of-request-for-9-more-c_130js.html
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:11 pm

So hypothetically speaking if Tibet declares Independence & china does not object....The military senario in Asia would change altogether.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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bikerthai
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:20 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 26):
But there's no long history of warfare, such as between UK an France.

Maybe so, but I would put my money on the reason for the lack of historical conflict between China and India is the difficulty of moving an army across the Himalayas or even across SE Asia. But that too is changing . . .

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
BarfBag
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 29):
Maybe so, but I would put my money on the reason for the lack of historical conflict between China and India is the difficulty of moving an army across the Himalayas or even across SE Asia. But that too is changing . . .

Logistics certainly present an issue, but my point is that there wasn't even a meaningful land border between the two countries until 60 years ago for that to be a consideration. Only the eastern sector via Burma ever had any significant interaction with China proper. Most of what constitutes the current border were different nations before - historically, the northwestern and north/northeastern sectors were Turkestan and Tibet.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting BarfBag (Reply 30):

Logistics certainly present an issue, but my point is that there wasn't even a meaningful land border between the two countries until 60 years ago for that to be a consideration

Also, would there have been anything worth while to fight over in those two regions? Until now?

Is there lots of minerals in Tibet? Will they find lots of oil in SE Asia (other than in the ocean)?

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
Devilfish
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:29 am

The latest confirmation.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...n-contract-for-india-c-17s-367749/

Quote:
"Boeing has finalised a contract to sell 10 C-17 airlifters to the India Air Force, but a key decision looms for the future of the strategic airlifter.

The $1.78 billion contract awarded to Boeing on 2 February completes a three-year negotiation process, but it was not immediately clear if it was the full amount. During US President Barack Obama's visit to India in late 2010, the White House said the value of the 10 aircraft deal was $4.1 billion."



http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_C-17_Hawaii_Boeing_and_USAF_lg.jpg.
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.co...C-17_Hawaii_Boeing_and_USAF_lg.jpg

The DID article goes into more detail about the pricing.
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HAWK21M
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RE: India Goes American (Boeing) Again..

Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:08 am

Where are these C-17s going to be based?.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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