747400sp
Topic Author
Posts: 3850
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:10 pm

I was just reading something on the F-35C, that stated that it weight is 70000 lbs, that near a Tomcat weight, so is this true, and why is this smaller plane so heavy?
 
User avatar
spudh
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:00 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:18 pm

That's got to be max take off
 
Arniepie
Posts: 1429
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:00 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:10 pm

I believe that's mainly because it can carry a lot of internal fuel and a rather impressive weaponsload.
The 40Klbs engine probably gives it enough oomph to get away with it.
Also the Marinised F-35 has a considerably bigger wing (it looks a lot like an F-22 from some underside angles)
giving it a lower wingloading aiding with carrier ops.

I wonder why the USAF and MARINES didn't go for the larger wing also, it would certainly aid the F-35 with one
of its most criticised points namaely wingloading.
[edit post]
 
User avatar
ptrjong
Posts: 4109
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:12 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):

Max take-off weight is in the 60,000 lbs class according to Globalsecurity.org (as you could easily have found out yourself).

The planned MTOW cannot really accidentally be exceeded since it is determined by available engine power and the wing's lift capability. What grows when the aircraft is overweight is empty weight, thus reducing the useful load.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:35 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 3):
Max take-off weight is in the 60,000 lbs class according to Globalsecurity.org (as you could easily have found out yourself).

And there are other sources on the internet that list it as 70,000. Really, I don't think we will know until it's in service.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
wvsuperhornet
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:18 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:42 am

I thought it was the F-35B they were having the weight issues with is the F-35C causing problems also?

[Edited 2011-12-12 16:43:21]
 
Powerslide
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:24 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:08 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I was just reading something on the F-35C, that stated that it weight is 70000 lbs, that near a Tomcat weight, so is this true, and why is this smaller plane so heavy?

What does its size, compared to the Tomcat of all things, have anything to do with its weight?

Another excellent F35 thread.
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting Arniepie (Reply 2):
I wonder why the USAF and MARINES didn't go for the larger wing also, it would certainly aid the F-35 with one
of its most criticised points namaely wingloading.

It is my understanding that size is a liability should it ever come down to ACM. An Eagle driver once told the planform area of an F-15 is almost identical to that of a tennis court, and the much smaller F-16 made it formidable in visual engagements. There are, of course, litterally thousands of other factors that drive wing sizing.

Cheers!

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:54 am

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 5):
I thought it was the F-35B they were having the weight issues with is the F-35C causing problems also?

It did. Originally, it was 1,000kg overweight in 2004. It's now 200kg underweight now.

Quoting Arniepie (Reply 2):
I believe that's mainly because it can carry a lot of internal fuel and a rather impressive weaponsload.
The 40Klbs engine probably gives it enough oomph to get away with it.
Also the Marinised F-35 has a considerably bigger wing (it looks a lot like an F-22 from some underside angles)
giving it a lower wingloading aiding with carrier ops.

I wonder why the USAF and MARINES didn't go for the larger wing also, it would certainly aid the F-35 with one
of its most criticised points namaely wingloading.

Wing loading is a bogus metric. As I said before, full span slats and flaps, and LERX's, as well as large lifting bodies have destroyed the meaning it had. Fighter jets today are no longer tubes with wings stuck to them. The F-16 has a higher wing loading than the old F-4 Phantom II, but I don't think anyone will argue that the F-4 was more maneuverable than the F-16. In fact, here's a list of the wing loading of some jets right now to help blast that argument some more:

3rd Gen US fighters
F-4E: 78 lb/ft²
F-8: 77.3 lb/ft²
F-105D: 93 lb/ft²

4th and 4.5th Gen US Fighters
F-16C Block 30: 88.3 lb/ft²
F/A-18C/D: 93 lb/ft²
F/A-18E/F: 94 lb/ft²
F-15C: 73.1 lb/ft²
F-14D: 113.4 lb/ft²

5th Gen US Fighters
F-35A: 91.4 lb/ft²
F-22: 77 lb/ft²

Eastern bloc fighters
MiG-29: 90.5 lb/ft²
Su-35: 84.9 lb/ft²
PAK FA: 96 lb/ft²
 
User avatar
ptrjong
Posts: 4109
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:22 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 4):

And there are other sources on the internet that list it as 70,000. Really, I don't think we will know until it's in service.

OK. Anyway, I would like apologize to 747400sp because this is indeed interesting. Here we have an 'affordable F-16 and AV-8B replacement' with a gross weight heavier than that of the F/A-18C and approaching that of the F-15C and F-14.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
747400sp
Topic Author
Posts: 3850
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:28 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 9):
OK. Anyway, I would like apologize to 747400sp because this is indeed interesting. Here we have an 'affordable F-16 and AV-8B replacement' with a gross weight heavier than that of the F/A-18C and approaching that of the F-15C and F-14.




Do not worry ptrjong, your forgiven.   Also, thank you DiamondFlyer, for back me up.  





747400sp
 
LMP737
Posts: 4857
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:51 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I was just reading something on the F-35C, that stated that it weight is 70000 lbs, that near a Tomcat weight, so is this true, and why is this smaller plane so heavy?

The only time a Tomcat wieghed 70000, 72000 was it's max gross, was when it was loaded down with six AIM-54, two AIM-9 and two external tanks. Which happened usually only in flight test or if a shooting war had broken out betweewn NATO and the Warsaw pact and you had Backfires inbound.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
User avatar
ptrjong
Posts: 4109
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:38 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:07 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 11):

Various sources give 74,350 lb (33,720 kg) as the F-14A's MTOW, which may be theoretical, but still.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
User avatar
spudh
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:00 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:05 am

IIRC the Tomcat had different Max Take Off weights for carrier and land based operations. I think 70,000lb was the max the catapult could put off the deck. The MTOW of 74,350lbs was for land operations.

BTW I'm pretty sure that 6 phoenix + 2 aim-9 + max internal and external fuel didn't near reach MTOW for land ops. I'm also pretty sure it could get off a carrier in that configuration but couldn't land back on a carrier with 6 phoenix and min fuel.
 
Max Q
Posts: 5644
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:24 am

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 7):

It is my understanding that size is a liability should it ever come down to ACM. An Eagle driver once told the planform area of an F-15 is almost identical to that of a tennis court, and the much smaller F-16 made it formidable in visual engagements. There are, of course, litterally thousands of other factors that drive wing sizing.





Think about what you are saying and try to imagine the real size of a tennis court.


Now, back to reality, compared to an F16 the Eagle is huge, and many expressions may have been used to express it's size ,


But, Just try using a little less imagination..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 14):

Max Q,

You ARE right! An F-15 does NOT have the area of a tennis court. That being said, I am working on getting together an image that shows them both on the same scale.

Thanks for making me think a little more about quoting what is told to me without thinking a little more about it first! I don't have Internet at the house, so it may take me a little while to generate the image.

Fwiw, I don't think you can park an F-15 within the dimensions of a tennis court! We'll see  

Cheers!

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
Slcpilot
Posts: 568
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:33 pm

Howdy,

While I do not claim this image to be an exact scale, it is probably close enough for government work! The F-15 clearly does not have the area of a tennis court. At the same time, it is impossible to park one within the boundries of a tennis court!

Cheers!

SLCPilot


I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
LMP737
Posts: 4857
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:24 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 12):
Various sources give 74,350 lb (33,720 kg) as the F-14A's MTOW, which may be theoretical, but still.

You forgot the 8 ounces.  
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
Max Q
Posts: 5644
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:38 pm

That's a great comparison image SLC,





The F15 is certainly a huge fighter, but the unquestioned biggest fighter out there was the magnificent F14 Tomcat.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
User avatar
CALTECH
Posts: 2790
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:21 am

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:15 am

Biggest Fighter/Interceptor, Tu-28/-128,

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=357

http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/modl_other_files/tu-128_04.jpg

That was a big fighter.
UNITED Would Be Nice
 
Max Q
Posts: 5644
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: Is It True That A F-35C Is Super Heavy.

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:17 am

Hey, that's only about three inches long, how is that biggest ?!







Seriously, you have me there, have to be careful about comparisons on this website..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests