Devilfish
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Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:40 pm

This article just came out, as if to belie a point I made in the LAS Program thread.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...cus-on-territorial-defence-366502/

Quote:
"Under the auspices of its Capability Upgrade Plan, the air force could announce several acquisitions in the coming 12 months, a spokesperson said.

The plan calls for between four and six lead-in jet trainer/attack aircraft and six aircraft to replace the Rockwell OV-10 Bronco, plus two maritime patrol aircraft, and one or two others to be dedicated to command and control/intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) tasks.

Manila also plans to request 12 former US Air Force Lockheed Martin F-16C/D Block 25 fighters from Washington, although this is not a formal requirement. Any Philippine F-16 deal would be similar to the USA's granting last year of permission to transfer 24 ex-US Air National Guard F-16C/D Block 15s - categorised as 'excess defence articles' - to Indonesia.

[.....]

For the lead-in jet trainer requirement, potential candidates include the Korea Aerospace Industries T/A-50 and Alenia Aermacchi's M-346. Both companies have made representations to the air force, which also foresees a light attack role for these aircraft.

Manila also hopes to obtain six aircraft for counter-insurgency operations. Possible candidates include the Air Tractor AT-802U, Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano and Hawker Beechcraft AT-6. Both the maritime patrol and ISR aircraft are likely to be in the twin-turboprop class."



Please take the announcement with a generous helping of salt.....the operative words in the report being "hopes" and "plans". Nonetheless, the PAF would doubtless be ecstatic if these come to pass.

The T/A-50 looks to be the prime contender for the first requirement. The ROKAF's buy of 20 FA-50s could bolster its chances here considerably.....


.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-600m-order-for-20-fa-50s-366500/

Another possibility is a package deal for KA-1 Woong Bee and FA-50s.

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Photo © Yunjin Lee - Korea Aero Photo



With a number of its campaigns making slow progress, and the Italian Air Force's order threatened by the economic crisis, the M-346's prospects here seem middling......

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Photo © Roland Bergmann-Spotterteam Graz


However, addition and updates for the remaining S-211s in service might do the trick.

For COIN, the outlook is less bright for the AT-6 after its loss in the US.....while price could work against the tried, proven and highly desired Super Tucano. OTOH, being rugged and cheap are the AT-802U's main draws.

The MP and ISR roles would likely go to King Air variants of those, but could be challenged by East European types like the M-28 Bryza.

The PAF seem to be neglecting inter-island transport, and for that CASA's C212-400 offer a reasonable solution. They would need more surplus C-130s or, if they get very lucky, new CN-235s.

Lastly, I fear the request for 12 surplus Block 25 F-16s may be surrounded with much political posturing, that transitioning pilots would have graduated from the LIFT program long before the Vipers come.

All in all, quite a realistic goal considering the numbers and the absence of outlandish, ego-propping, prestige items as in past announcements. I wouldn't hold my breath, but frankly, I'd be delighted if these see the light of day.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
LAXintl
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:55 am

Considering the drive in the Philippines to rearm its armed forces has much to do with perceived Chinese threat over the horizon, one probably simpler (and certainly cheaper) path would be to suggest the US again maintain a presence on the island.
Something like a unit rotating regularly from Guam or other Asian basing could likely provide much of the same effect at a fraction of the cost to the Philippines.

With the roll out of the Pentagon’s long range blueprint today, the Asia-Pacific region plays the central role in US posturing, and the recent basing deal with Australia could serve as a role model for a new US-Philippines agreement.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Something like a unit rotating regularly from Guam or other Asian basing could likely provide much of the same effect at a fraction of the cost to the Philippines.

With cost-cutting adding pressure for a new round of BRAC at home, this is the avenue being explored going forward. A CNAS paper basically says as much.


As for aircraft, this blog report just came out...but no independent corroboration from other defense media as of yet...

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Photo © Andrés Contador - AirTeamImages

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.com/2012/06/its-ta-50-for-paf.html

Quote:
"June 20, 2012

Manila - The Philippine Air Force (PAF) will be flying 12 lead-in fighter trainers (LIFT) from South Korea in two years time, says Voltaire Gazmin, Secretary of National Defense (DND) amidst tension in the South China.

The TA-50s (are) expected to be delivered by 2013 valued at half a billion US dollars, funded mostly from Korean grants.

[.....]

It is now confirmed that during the visit, South Korea did sign(ed) an agreement to provide soft loans of up to $500 million to the Philippines. The diplomatic communique was received by (the) Office of the President last week. No further details were immediately known until they were announced yesterday.

The concessional loans would come from the Economic Development Cooperation Fund and disbursed through the Export-Import Bank of Korea from this year until 2013, the two countries said.

The TA-50 is a joint venture program of Korea Aerospace Industrie (KAI) and Lockheed Martin of the United States, with a price tag of USD $25 million a piece. Those offered to the Philippines has a price tag of USD $28 Million."



The delayed announcement could be due to required clearances for the trainers' U.S. content. Also, the higher unit price than the TNI got might be attributable to requested light attack capabilities for the T/A variant, and any IP costs for LM. Other considerations may include bridging assets and initial program work.

Hopefully, no other issues will come up to derail the project.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
Topic Author
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:48 pm

DID has the story now.....

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_T-50_Cutaway_lg.jpg

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...reas-t-50-spreads-its-wings-04004/

Quote:
"June 20/12: Philippine buy? ABS-CBN news of the Philippines quotes Philippine air force officials as saying they will buy 12 TA-50s, in order to restore the air force’s ability to police Philippine airspace.

[.....]

The TA-50 deal is reportedly worth around 25 billion pesos (about $590 million), with a contract expected by the end of 2012. All 12 fighter jets are expected to be delivered by the end of 2013. If so, the Philippines would join its neighbor Indonesia as a TA-50 customer.



The report also mentions a separate contract for six fixed-wing COIN aircraft.....

Quote:
"A 2nd contract for 6 fixed-wing aircraft is expected to replace the country’s OV-10 Bronco counter-insurgency planes, and designs from the USA (likely the AT-6B), Brazil (Super Tucano), and Korea (likely the KT-1) are expected to compete."

These were all cited at the thread's start.....but an unconfirmed blog item says the Super Tucano was chosen.....

http://community.warplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/a29_super_tucano.jpg

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.c...fense-radar-to-be-operational.html

Quote:
"Meanwhile, the Brazilian-made Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano, also named ALX or A-29 has been chosen to replace a fleet of OV-10 Broncos, due to its flexibility to perform a broad range of missions, including light attack, surveillance, air-to-air interception, and counter insurgency(COIN)."


The blog also hinted about a couple of light cargo and special mission platforms without specifying the aircraft, although it showed photos of Alenia's Spartan and ATR 400 in AMI colors.....

Quote:
"Another two light lifts and one special mission aircraft from Italy will also be procured using the same G2G deals.

Okol said the PAF will use the A-29 for close air support and aerial reconnaissance platforms.

'Super Tucano is purposely built for counter-insurgency and light air support missions,' says the spokesman."




Then there's the bit about ISR.....

.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-of-p180-business-aircraft-373101/


From the blog.....

Quote:
"The United States will be funding the construction of the National Coast Watch Center, and share surveillance and intelligence data with the Philippines.

[.....]

Rick Fisher, an Asian security expert at the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Alexandria, said a powerful land-based radar could be used jointly by the Philippines, the United States and other allies to quickly detect Chinese military movements in the region.

[.....]

Additional details of the new air assets were not disclosed."



I'm guessing a brace of these could complement that Coast Watch system very well.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...013/MC-12-Liberty-Planes-Eyed-Cuts

Quote:
"Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said the Air Force does not plan to keep all 42 of its MC-12 aircraft.

The twin-propeller Hawker Beechcraft King Air 350s are fitted with surveillance sensors and have an aircrew of four: two pilots, a sensor operator and a signals intelligence specialist.

[.....]

'As we draw down, there will obviously be a decreased requirement for these platforms, but I do not believe it will ever actually disappear,' an Air Force official said. 'We will flow them to other parts of the globe to continue our fight against all forms of terrorism'.”



What remains is the question of the country's long-term air and sea defense. It is hoped the belligerence around the country's EEZ would diminish that no more than an upgrade to the F/A-50 would be necessary.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
wvsuperhornet
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:47 am

The T-50's if they can buy them in actual numbers would be a good boost to their defense's those things are suppose to be like an F-5 on steriods anyway.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting wvsuperhornet (Reply 4):
The T-50's if they can buy them in actual numbers would be a good boost to their defense's those things are suppose to be like an F-5 on steriods anyway.

With the same GE F404 engine, the TA-50 is actually like a Gripen - minus the range of qualified weapons and systems. However, I don't think the PAF is looking to buy more of those than necessary to fulfill their advance jet training and air policing functions. For long term defense, they need something more substantial.

The Gripen offers reasonable capability in a simple, affordable package...available new or used, by sale or lease, and somewhat future proof via the NG. Could be a bargain if one chooses surplus A and B models.

The Mirage 2000-9 is in much the same category but only available from a single source or through costly upgrades of used airframes.

The F-16 still presents the best balance of affordability (in acquisition and operation) and capabilities...but requires utmost delicacy for an open commitment to supply.

There were rumors of an F/A-18 offer...way above the requirement and a bit short-ranged - will be very expensive...or much abused if second hand...and will also need the delicate balancing act.

Which brings us to the dark horse. Given that the PAF had also been shopping in Europe (particularly the UK and Italy) perhaps they'd asked about the Tranche 1 Typhoons? Italy offered theirs to Romania while the RAF samples were supposed to be retired but updated instead.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...w-fighters-come-from-israel-01499/

Quote:
"May 11/10: The Eurofighter consortium and member firm Alenia Aeronautica chime in with an offer of their own: 24 used Italian Tranche 1 Eurofighters, plus up to 5,000 skilled jobs created by 100% industrial offsets and local technology transfer. The price, including logistics support and training, would be EUR 1 billion (about $1.3 billion), matching the price tag for used F-16s. Deliveries would take place between 2011-2012.

Italian Tranche 1 Eurofighters differ sharply from the other competitors in one crucial respect. Barring additional upgrades and equipment, they lack precision attack capabilities."



http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...f-upgrades-tranche-1-typhoons.html

Quote:
(Source: BAE Systems; issued June 21, 2012)

"The Royal Air Force Tranche 1 fleet are to be upgraded following the recent delivery of the Drop 2 upgrade package.

Following the closure of the Tranche 1 Main Development Contract between NETMA and Eurofighter, the UK established a Capability Sustainment Team within BAE Systems. This team was initially utilised to develop an upgrade called Tranche 1 Drop1 that subsequently saw active service as part of the Typhoon Fleet deployed in support of Operation ELLAMY in Libya.
"


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If the PAF could pay $590M for 12 LIFT aircraft, maybe they could afford 18-24 used, cheap, T1 AMI Typhoons, or RAF types less the Drop 2 - with offsets. Relatively young fleet with good A2A and decent A2S credentials. A country in the middle of the sea doesn't need a bomb truck. Problem is what these twin-engined fighters would do to the Air Force's annual budget!
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:09 pm

A quick rejoinder to defuse an embarrassing situation.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Quote:
"MANILA, Philippines — The Philippines on July 3 said the deployment of U.S. spy planes, suggested by President Benigno Aquino, was just one option to monitor the country’s territory, as China appealed for stability in the region.

'If they happen at all, they are surveillance flights, they are not meant to be provocative. There’s no offensive capability here,' said Ricky Carandang, the president’s spokesman.

China’s foreign ministry, in an embassy statement quoting spokesman Liu Weimin, called on all parties to maintain 'peace and stability' in the South China Sea.

'We have noticed the reports,' the spokesman said. 'It is the hope of the Chinese side that peace and stability can be maintained ... and parties concerned do things conducive to regional peace and stability'."



The DFA should give the boss a crash course on diplomatic double-talk as so glibly practised by the other side above.    Something about lips and ships...    .....

Would be weirder if Taipei offered some of the FAMBs it's retiring to the PN.   

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s


I was expecting this only.....

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Photo © Chris Heaton



Need to look at acquiring their own equipment to avoid awkward situations like that.....

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...time-surveillance-aircraft-372752/

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=24002


As an aside, a royal is in town to visit a few "obras pias".



Lastly, something for our US friends.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67XrqXXTceM

[Edited 2012-07-03 14:05:52]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
sweair
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:34 pm

China is making new enemies in the south china sea, even Vietnam and Us are looking towards cooperation.. China acting like a bully will only fuel this further. Never trust the chicoms!
 
Confuscius
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:32 am

Are there any Peashooters left?

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/746/pics/107_1.jpg
Ain't I a stinker?
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 7):
China is making new enemies in the south china sea, even Vietnam and Us are looking towards cooperation.. China acting like a bully will only fuel this further.

The mighty dragon is no longer content frolicking just in Hannalee.....and wants more toys and other fancy stuff. Neither is he all Puff... but roars that nobles bow their heads and ships lower their flags... in words and deeds. Unlikely it will just sadly slip back into its cave. (Apologies to PP&M).

Thus explaining why the Gripen which otherwise would be good enough {and still be very competitive pricewise (specially if it comes tied to a favorable financing deal) with an as yet untried armed trainer being priced at $28M each for 12 frames, with no clear indication of the weapons, systems and sensors that would be included} might be overmatched. Come to think of it, both the Gripen and TA-50 could qualify for FMS due to their engines and extensive US content.

Guess another way of looking at it is for the price of three or so LIFT planes, one OPV could be procured perhaps with more effective, if not immediate impact?.....

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_OPV_TT_Scarborough_Trials_BAE_lg.png

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...ing-BAEs-90m-Patrol-Vessels-07254/

How aptly named this vessel is.....the former Vosper Thorneycroft also presented this model to the PN prior to the Asian financial crisis in the mid-nineties.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 8):
Are there any Peashooters left?

There might still be a couple or so surviving Tora-Tora planes of EDSA fame.  

Hopefully, they will not "forget" that the much higher price of the "armed" LIFT variant should include the actual weapons and the means to deploy those.    Or else, they may end up mounting slingshots on their jets.

Thanks to the "soft" loan, it's already more than twice as expensive than the plain vanilla M-346 trainer for the IASF (30 for $1B - offset for Israeli ISR platforms duly noted).         
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Max Q
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:31 am

Well, that TA50 certainly looks great.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:03 pm

This looks better.....  http://blogs.defensenews.com/farnborough/files/2012/07/gripen.saab_.jpg.
http://blogs.defensenews.com/farnbor...ugh/files/2012/07/gripen.saab_.jpg


The Raven ES-05 AESA radar will go a long way towards leveling the playing field a bit against potential adversaries.

.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getasset.aspx?itemid=46622
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
User avatar
SAS A340
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 11):
This looks better.....

Way way way better  
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
Confuscius
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:51 pm

How about more of these? I'm sure there's a few stored at Davis-Monthan.




Anyway, PAF have excellent pilots. We don't need no stinking smart bombs!

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/166057/...-smart-pilots-yes-says-paf-general

...or the pilots were from Creech.   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
How about more of these?

Afraid even barnacles would refuse clinging to that if you sank it to make an artificial reef.  .

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 13):
I'm sure there's a few stored at Davis-Monthan.

Could you suggest something less ancient?    Like these.....

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Photo © Eugene Uhl


Although I think they had blown up most of the flyable samples as drones.   .


And since you've gone this way already, why not go all out and request this?   

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Confuscius
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 14):
Afraid even barnacles would refuse clinging to that if you sank it to make an artificial reef.

Too bad, the Philippines need new reefs with all the dynamite fishing going on.  

I don't know why the PAF acquired the F-8s unless someone got rich over it.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 14):
why not go all out and request this?

No, too sophisticated. PAF pilots like to eyeball the target.  
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:37 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
No, too sophisticated. PAF pilots like to eyeball the target.

Here's something simpler   .....

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Photo © Brian Lockett


Build new airframes, uprate the engine...install the systems, avionics, radars and pods still in good condition which would be removed from the planned update of USAF F-16s (   not giving KAI any sly idea), test and qualify the weapons suite..... and voila..... an overachieving light fighter for much less dollars..... with handling characteristics that might be familiar to more senior PAF pilots.   

Although I think pursuing the single-seat, F414 powered F/A-50 with Northrop's SABR and new mission computer could be much less troublesome.   


Seriously, the Mirage 2000-9s are a viable option if the UK manages to sell Typhoons (or France, Rafales) to the UAE..... provided that the price is right.   

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Question is service support if Dassault were not involved.   

[Edited 2012-07-15 14:41:05]
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:01 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
Too bad, the Philippines need new reefs with all the dynamite fishing going on.

Not to worry.....the PN has plenty of candidates for those  .


Quoting Confuscius (Reply 15):
I don't know why the PAF acquired the F-8s unless someone got rich over it.

Curious that the rumor about the selection of the TA-50 is now "tempered" with this comment from KAI's VP for international marketing.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ries-t-50-rides-high-in-uk-374093/

Quote:
"Sang declined to comment on persistent speculation in the Philippine press that Manila will acquire 12 T-50s.

'We are grateful for Manila's interest and will hope to meet any requests they may have,' says Sang."



.....ever since news of Israel's $1B deal for 30 M-346s became official.....

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Photo © Mick Bajcar

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...1bn-m-346-acquisition-deal-374546/


Also, the "choice" of Embraer's Super Tucano to replace the remaining OV-10Bs is unceremoniously replaced by reports that the PAF is now looking to acquire new attack helicopters by the end of this year.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...ssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

Quote:
"MANILA — The Philippines will acquire 10 attack helicopters starting next year in a bid to boost the capabilities of the poorly equipped military, an air force spokesman said July 18.

Italy, Britain, France, Russia and South Africa are all being eyed to supply the helicopters, Lt. Col. Miguel Okol said, although he declined to specify which models were being considered.

The brand new machines will upgrade the fleet of U.S.-made MG-520 light attack helicopters that the air force has been using since the 1990s.

'What we are going to get are armed attack helicopters ... that can carry more payload than the MG-520,' Okol told AFP.

He declined to specify the cost of the acquisition but said the government had already allocated the required funds.

The new aircraft will be used for 'internal security operations, border security and support operations,' he said."



It's notable that they are more careful now in indicating which existing assets these helos will replace, where those would be sourced, and how much those might cost.....as compared to this report.....

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx...828655&publicationSubCategoryId=63

.....which generated much local speculation about the qualities of the AW129 Mangusta.....

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Photo © De Guidi Monica


..... and the Yak-130's potential.....   .

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...Light-Attack-Jets-07229/#more-7229

Quote:
"July 17/12: Irkut arming Yak-130s. the Russian military may not be interested in developing a Yak-131 light attack version, but Irkut thinks there’s a market for the existing Yak-130, and is working to give it a full strike fighter’s array. At present, the Yak-130’s 3,000 kg/ 6,600 pounds of payload can includes AA-11/R-73 short range air-to-air missiles for defense, and KAB-500 laser-guided bombs, in addition to unguided bombs, rockets and 23mm gun pods."


http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/farn12/emptys/95648/yak-130-farnborough-2012.jpg.
http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...95648/yak-130-farnborough-2012.jpg


Does Agusta really have ten brand-new AW-129s just lying about, waiting to be sold? And while at it, there's still the matter of three, fixed-wing medium airlifters and unspecified number of light transports to be sorted out. Truly, it's more fun!  
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Confuscius
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 17):
Not to worry.....the PN has plenty of candidates for those

Cool, more places for the Chinese Navy to run aground.  Wink
Quoting Devilfish (Reply 17):
The Philippines will acquire 10 attack helicopters starting next year in a bid to boost the capabilities of the poorly equipped military

Wouln't it be cheaper to acquire used helicopters? There's quite a few AH-1s somewhere in the desert of Arizona.

[Edited 2012-07-20 21:56:53]
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sweair
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:34 am

Apaches would be good for surveillance of those islands, maybe they lack the range? Could the be fitted with anti ship missiles?

How about A10s? Simple durable planes with a deadly bite, that cannon could open a ship like a sardine can..
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 18):
Wouln't it be cheaper to acquire used helicopters? There's quite a few AH-1s somewhere in the desert of Arizona.

The second sentence in the linked PhilStar article in #17 mentioned 21 Hueys. IIRC, refurbished AH-1 Cobras were offered about two years ago but the costs were almost like for new ones, that even the USMC opted for brand-new airframes instead.


Quoting sweair (Reply 19):
Apaches would be good for surveillance of those islands, maybe they lack the range? Could the be fitted with anti ship missiles?

AH-64s are way too expensive for the PAF's budget. There's news that the PN is looking to acquire two Maestrale class frigates the MM is about to retire for P11.7B.....

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/462...-2-missile-warships-from-italy-dnd


http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/051130-N-7217H-004.jpg
http://adroth.ph/afpmodern/wp-conten...ads/2012/02/051130-N-7217H-004.jpg

Perhaps they would operate an A129 off of both. But it's still talk up till now.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/images/maestrale.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../world/europe/images/maestrale.jpg

Quoting sweair (Reply 19):
How about A10s? Simple durable planes with a deadly bite, that cannon could open a ship like a sardine can..

And the ship's S2A and CIWS could also pick out the Hogs like in a turkey shoot.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Confuscius
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 20):
IIRC, refurbished AH-1 Cobras were offered about two years ago but the costs were almost like for new ones, that even the USMC opted for brand-new airframes instead.

It depends who is paying, the Philippine or the U.S. government, FMS or MAP?  
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:04 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 21):
It depends who is paying, the Philippine or the U.S. government, FMS or MAP?

At the end of the day, it's still the Philippine government who would pick up the tab.


Which brings us back to the TA-50. Interesting that DID now reports the country has confirmed its choice.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...spreads-its-wings-04004/#contracts

.....while saying that it wanted the first two airframes immediately to start pilot training...but that it had no budget for the acquisition. DID pulled the long report after briefly displaying it in their online general readers section.


All these after reports indicated that no bidders came forward for KAI's major share offering.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...find-buyer-for-aerospace-firm.html

Quote:
"The sale of Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) is set for takeoff, but so far it has struggled to find a party interested enough to even fill out a bidding application.

On Friday, KAI’s stock value fell 2.24 percent to close at 26,200 won ($23). In recent trades, the stock price has fallen as the market expects the bid to fail."



http://articles.economictimes.indiat...take-sale-kai-sale-of-fighter-jets


These raise a question about KAI's ability to support the lead-in fighter trainers after a contract is signed, and also in light of their international marketing VP's half-hearted comment in #17 above.
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:17 pm

Update:

Alas, the stake sale didn't go forward.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...pace-industries-stake-sale-375980/


In the meantime, the two maritime helos still seem to be a long way away.....


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.....while the A129s may be built by TAI.
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:15 pm

Agusta/PZL-Swidnik must be lurking here and came out with this timely press release.   

Even farther out but definitely cheaper than the A159 is this naval helicopter from their affiliate   .

.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...copter-gets-naval-makeover-376152/

Quote:
"AgustaWestland company PZL-Swidnik has started developing a new multirole naval variant of its Gluszec helicopter, with the design based on its armed W-3PL already flown by the Polish land forces and the navy's W-3RM Anakonda maritime search and rescue platform.

.

Mission equipment planned for the aircraft includes a search radar, dipping sonar, sonobuoys, forward-looking infrared sensor, rescue hoist and searchlight. To enable embarked operations, it would also feature an all-new landing gear and an emergency flotation system, plus new main rotor blades with a blade-fold system.

.

To be capable of performing anti-submarine and anti-surface warfare tasks, plus search and rescue missions, and transport, the helicopter would be armed with torpedoes, air-to-surface missiles and machine guns."



The Anakonda looks heavy but will have commonality with the PAF's recently acquired Sokols. It will be less sophisticated than other western counterparts...so in-service performance of their brethren in the air force needs to be thoroughly validated first.

The AFP meanwhile ought to get cracking on preparation and training for shipboard helo ops if they want to get the most out of these contemplated future assets.   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:26 pm

Update:

This Inquirer news item might indicate the direction of the security situation in the country.....

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/284814/sbma-tourism-complex-plan-derailed

Quote:
"SUBIC BAY FREEPORT—The planned conversion of the idle Subic Bay International Airport (SBIA) into a tourism complex will not push through due to plans of the Department of National Defense (DND) to use the area as a military base, a top official of the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority (SBMA) said.

SBMA Chair Roberto Garcia said his vision to convert the 200-hectare SBIA into a family-oriented, integrated, international tourist destination like Sentosa Island in Singapore had been derailed because the DND wants to use the airport with its counterpart in the United States military.

'The DND wants to move the Philippine Air Force (PAF) base from Basa [in Floridablanca, Pampanga] to SBIA. If so, then the airport conversion cannot push through,' he said.

The Basa Air Base hosts the PAF’s Air Defense Wing and the 355th Air Engineering Wing.

The DND’s plan to use SBIA came even as Garcia had pinned his hopes on using the airport to improve the financial condition of this debt-ridden free port. He, however, said the schedule for the PAF’s transfer here has yet to be finalized.

When asked if the PAF’s use of SBIA is temporary, Garcia said: 'If they transfer, [it will] most likely be permanent'."


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bhvunzYJt8...H0/Mxw5o3pzuzc/s1600-h/4709827.jpg


If it pushes through, the move could untangle the AFP Modernization Plan.


This article highlights the discrepancy as compared to its neighbors.....

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/awx_10_08_2012_p0-503886.xml&p=4

[Edited 2012-10-08 15:16:00]
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:27 pm

A DID paid subscription update says the LIFT requirement will now be competitively bid.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...reas-t-50-spreads-its-wings-04004/
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:14 pm

More on the above from Flightglobal.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...modernisation-of-air-force-378343/

Quote:
"The highest profile acquisition planned is for 12 lead-in fighter trainer aircraft. Requirements for the type include radar, supersonic speed, and the ability to prosecute both ground and air targets - the latter with beyond visual range missiles.

'The [Korea Aerospace Industries] F/A-50 more or less fits our requirements, but we have not concluded it will be the F/A-50,' says the spokesman.

Other types Manila could consider include the Alenia Aermacchi M-346, Yakovlev Yak-130 and the BAE Systems Hawk.

The Philippine Department of National Defence is in the process of drafting an RFP and the air force hopes to have the aircraft on the flight line as early as 2014-15, the spokesman says."


One wonders if the LIFT, radar and mission computer package would adequately support BVR weapons.   

Also, the recently delivered Sokols will be reassigned to SAR duties.....

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"Manila will also re-task its PZL-Swidnik W-3A Sokol helicopters to the search and rescue (SAR) role from the combat utility role. So far, the Philippines has received four Sokols from a 2010 order for eight examples of the type. It will receive the remaining four by the end of 2012.

'It was decided that the Sokols would be best to fill the SAR role,' says the spokesman. 'We are optimising resources'."


Very unusual to see a PAF asset in the snow!   


Meanwhile, DID picked up a report saying the Coast Guard is 'finalizing' a deal with the French for patrol boats.....

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/

Quote:
"The Philippine’s Coast Guard is finalizing the purchase of 5 French patrol vessels for a total of $4.8B pesos (around $116M). Manila Standard."


However, no further mention of the ten attack helicopters nor fixed-wing maritime patrol aircraft was made. As usual, the operative words are 'could' and 'hopes'.....   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:14 am

So, another trainer may join the fray.....the more the merrier I say  bigthumbsup .

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.....wonder if a simulator would be part of the requirement?


Some are suggesting Russian designs...but might things inexplicably return to normal if these were procured instead?      


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Also, is this now completely out of consideration.....?

http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=48097


As to the W-3A, a few of the kits needed for its new SAR role.....


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Might as well convert the four remaining frames prior to delivery....and apply the high visibility livery while at it. yes 

[Edited 2012-11-03 19:35:44]
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mandala499
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:53 am

Devilfish, did Cebu Pacific plan to get it's own little air force consisting of L-15s?
I mean look closely:


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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:14 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 29):
Devilfish, did Cebu Pacific plan to get it's own little air force consisting of L-15s?
I mean look closely:

LOL...maybe they wanted it to do escort duties. In fairness though, I think 5J had that logo a long time before Hongdu put it on their 'mini Falcon'...even during 5J's 'mad dog' days, and briefly on a 757...   .....

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AVIC used to just have their company logo on the tail...may now think those would sell better with it. And as you probably know, it's a 'rooster'...not a 'bird' on 5J's planes.   

Going back, it's interesting that the PAF is now saying F/A-50 instead of T/A-50...and that the requirements are now for two iso three medium lift...and two light lift iso six aircraft. In addition, this says Alenia had the inside track on the medium airlifter...while CASA/IPTN is favored for the medium range, maritime patrol requirement.....

http://philippineairspace.blogspot.c.../09/c-27j-spartan-to-join-paf.html

I had read elsewhere that the C212-200 was offered for the Nomad replacement...but believe IPTN (what's their new name?) already holds the type certificate and production rights of the current, updated -400 variant?.....

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It's midterm elections here so...much noise about more platforms being better suited for a particular role...and a wide variety of options to throw into the mix.  

[Edited 2012-11-06 08:47:37]
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:24 pm

Nice plane...if they could get it.....   .

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.....in light of this...and their products' generally acknowledged higher prices than the competition.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-on-bumpy-road-to-recovery-378583/

Quote:
"Unfortunately, management morale has not been helped by the fact that Finmeccanica has been embroiled in a series of bribery scandals involving overseas defence equipment sales which have seen a number of top executives brought under judicial scrutiny. It must be at least surmised that progress toward restructuring Finmeccanica has, at times, taken a back seat to dealing with a scandal the Italian press is referring to, with some glee, as 'tangentopoli', a term coined during political corruption scandals in the 1920s."


However, such practices seem to no longer shock a nation long inured.  sigh 

[Edited 2012-11-06 09:58:58]
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mandala499
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 30):
LOL...maybe they wanted it to do escort duties. In fairness though, I think 5J had that logo a long time before Hongdu put it on their 'mini Falcon'...even during 5J's 'mad dog' days, and briefly on a 757...

I just find it hilarious that AVIC would put that rooster on the L-15, and then the photo appears on this thread!   
Perhaps, Phil govt can say, "Sure, we'll get the L-15s, on condition that you remove the rooster from all your L-15s and give us a discount as compensation"...
Although, the result may be "Phil govt. asks 5J to change logo to ease negotiations in aircraft purchase."

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 30):
Going back, it's interesting that the PAF is now saying F/A-50 instead of T/A-50...and that the requirements are now for two iso three medium lift...and two light lift iso six aircraft. In addition, this says Alenia had the inside track on the medium airlifter...while CASA/IPTN is favored for the medium range, maritime patrol requirement.....

If only getting a handful, the F/A-50 would be better than the T/A-50... just minor differences to cater for the primary role.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 30):
I had read elsewhere that the C212-200 was offered for the Nomad replacement...but believe IPTN (what's their new name?) already holds the type certificate and production rights of the current, updated -400 variant?.....

IPTN? Now PTDI (IAe in English)... Yes they just got production rights for the 212-400, but not sure about the type certificate.

Mandala499
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 32):
"Sure, we'll get the L-15s, on condition that you remove the rooster from all your L-15s and give us a discount as compensation"...

Better yet..."We might consider your wares if you'd leave us alone in peace"  .

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 32):
Although, the result may be "Phil govt. asks 5J to change logo to ease negotiations in aircraft purchase."

Or it could very well be like the terminated North Rail and broadband communications projects.....with the main involved under trial.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 32):
If only getting a handful, the F/A-50 would be better than the T/A-50... just minor differences to cater for the primary role.

It's difficult to pin down the DND's priorities, or defined quantities...a source says one thing, while another says something else.....

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/AW_11_05_2012_p42-512226.xml

Quote:
"Both houses of the Philippine congress have approved the budget and acquisition process for the acquisition of 12 jet trainer/surface-attack aircraft; six close-air support aircraft; two long-range maritime patrol aircraft; two light-lift and three medium-lift fixed-wing military transports; three ground-based radars; and 10 attack helicopters. All will be assigned to the Philippine air force, says one of its officials.

The country's assistant secretary of defense in charge of acquisitions, installations and logistics, Patrick Velez, says all these procurements are high-priority and that the defense department hopes to begin taking deliveries next year. Congress has approved these specific acquisitions under the first five years (2012-17) of a 15-year military modernization bill. The budget allocated for 2012-17 is at least 75 billion pesos ($1.8 billion).

The Korea Aerospace Industries T-50 is the front-runner to meet the requirement for the jet trainer/surface attack aircraft, Velez says. No contract has been signed yet because the T-50 acquisition must be approved by the Philippine government procurement policy board. He also says the T-50 has yet to achieve certification for medium-range operations - since it was initially developed as a jet trainer - and if it fails to achieve that, then 'we may need to look at another platform'."


Main concerns are the F/A-50's (lack of) qualification for advance medium-range weapons, and its future suitability for BVR warfare. I think the disconnect is in asking too much of a LIFT aircraft.


We again see the re-emergence of the SupTuc, although with a light combat jet competitor this time around.....

Velez says that for the close-air-support requirement, 'at this stage, the Number One in the rankings is the Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano.' Second is the Hawker Beechcraft T-6 Texan II, he says, followed by the Korea Aerospace Industries KT-1 and Aero Vodochody L-159."


The Persuader's lead is affirmed...while there is a question on Raytheon's platform of choice.....

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.....the MC-12 is a little tight...and Beech is in a bit of a rut right now.....

"The main issue with this competition is the sensor suite, according to Velez. Besides the CN235, it is understood the other main contender is Raytheon, but it is unclear which platform it is proposing."


The attack helo project is relegated to the backburner for now.....

"When asked about the requirement for 10 attack helicopters, Velez says, 'that's not going to push through [so soon]. We have the budget. But the [Eurocopter] Fennec helicopter is no longer available.' Eurocopter had some Fennecs 'ready and not yet used,' he says, but a deal for them will not come to pass. Velez says the Philippines was planning to buy 10 Fennecs, but because it now must to select another helicopter, the budget will probably cover only eight. The AgustaWestland AW109 and PZL W-3 Sokol are likely candidates, he says."


"As for the medium-lift requirement, 'it is a close competition between the Alenia C-27J and C295, although we already have approval from the president for the C-27J,' he says."

This report from Flightglobal could help the Spartan along, and potentially, the other choices as well.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-new-c-27j-sales-agreement-378643/

Quote:
"Alenia Aermacchi has reached an agreement with its Joint Cargo Aircraft (JCA) programme partner L-3 Communications Integrated Systems, which will allow it to offer the C-27J Spartan directly to potential customers wishing to use Washington's Foreign Military Sales (FMS) mechanism.

"We have completely restructured our agreement with L-3, so now we have the right to deal directly with the US government on FMS," says Massimo Ghione, Alenia Aermacchi's vice general manager, marketing and sales.

[.....]

Alenia Aermacchi has also received a more recent order for the type from an undisclosed nation, with its current order book to support production activities until at least 2017."



The people's only wish is that there'd be no hands in the jar so some cookies are actually left to complete the deals.

[Edited 2012-11-07 10:50:04]
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:29 pm

Following the Canadian PM's visit, something like this for Raytheon's surveillance suite seems possible as medium range MP candidate.....

http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k634/threemilesfinal/TMF-Through%20The%20Lens/TMF-1034.jpg
http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/...-Through%20The%20Lens/TMF-1034.jpg

http://www.irishairpics.com/images/iap_fullsize_images/1045295.jpg
http://www.irishairpics.com/images/iap_fullsize_images/1045295.jpg


.....could be costly though, and doesn't feature a rear ramp for secondary transport tasks.



[Edited 2012-11-12 05:51:27]
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:42 pm

Had to do a double take when I read the caption before realizing that the livery was different.....  .

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It could give the CN-235MP a run for its money.....    .

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.....while the C-295 contests the medium airlift requirement against the C-27J.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ve-merged-alenia-aermacchi-378649/

Quote:
"The airframer is now investigating potential ways of enhancing its battlefield airlifter, some 15 years after it entered development and with more than 50 aircraft delivered.

'We are improving the product, to make it a little bit cheaper and to reduce flow times,' says Franzoni. Shortening the production process is important, he notes, as many customers cannot wait longer than 24 months to receive new aircraft.

[.....]

Weight reductions are also being sought, Franzoni says, along with a requested 5% increase in power output from the Spartan's two Rolls-Royce AE2100-D2A engines. Each is currently rated to produce a maximum output of 4,650shp (3,470kW), but boosting this would enable operators to increase the type's payload capacity, climb rate or range performance. Additional activities include obsolescence management for some aircraft systems, he adds."



Meanwhile, should the PAF forego LIFT/LCA and directly procure new or used multi-role fighters, Alenia could offer the less expensive M-346, or the M-345... a cheaper update of the M-311 trainer.....

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Quote:
"While the company is waiting on the USAF, it is also looking to offer the type to the Philippines, although the nation's air force is reported to be interested in KAI's armed F/A-50. It also is waiting on the requirements of Poland, and other nations involved with the slow-moving Advanced European Jet Pilot Training initiative.

Lower down its trainer product line is the proposed M-345; a rebranded version of the M-311 jet. Studies have been performed looking at new engine and avionics options, and Alenia Aermacchi says it could launch the programme if it secures sufficient backing. The Italian air force is viewed as a potential launch customer, as it needs to replace some of its oldest MB-339s"



Exciting times ahead.....   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:18 am

The conduit which could facilitate #34.....

http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?ca...ry=1&featureId=6&pageId=26&id=5160

Quote:
"'Canada and the Philippines continue to increase cooperation on security issues,' said the Prime Minister. 'This MOU will enable the Philippines to acquire the equipment and expertise it needs to fulfill the country’s defence and security agenda, while creating opportunities for the Canadian defence and security sectors in the Philippines.'

The MOU between the Canadian Commercial Corporation (CCC) and the Filipino Department of National Defence (DND) will enable the Philippines to acquire Canadian defence- and security-related equipment, systems and services on a direct, sole-source basis through the CCC. The MOU is effective immediately."


The MOU could benefit this too.....

http://www.casr.ca/ai-viking-guardian-400.htm


Alternatively, since the DND had already bought 8 choppers from PZL, these smaller, rugged, fixed-wing MP and ASuW aircraft may be cheaper, better fit alternatives for diving and climbing around the islands in the Sulu and West Philippine seas.....

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Note the MAD boom and retracted landing gears of the ASW plane...and the five-bladed props, drop-down rear door and ladder of the MPA.

Also, it could be a cheaper, sturdier FW transport/resupply/parajump/medevac platform.....

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Lastly, P&W engines and western avionics and systems could be specified thru Sikorsky.

http://www.sikorsky.com/Products/Pro...890c7b8110VgnVCM1000001382000a____
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:32 pm

Something to chew on...together with the bridging "assets".....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ilot-killed-in-t-50b-crash-379057/
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:10 pm

The vital enabling act is signed into law.....

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/322415/...extension-of-modernization-program

Quote:
"MANILA, Philippines – The Armed Forces of the Philippines on Tuesday welcomed President Benigno Aquino III’s signing into law the extension of the AFP Modernization Act for another 15 years.

[.....]

He added the law (Republic Act 10349), which Aquino signed Tuesday, will allow the AFP to push for the acquisition of equipment listed in its Medium Term (2013-2017) Acquisition List."



In another development, the second batch of utility helos from Poland starts delivery.....

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...itional-sokols-to-philippines.html

"The two additional helicopters follow the four Sokols delivered by PZL-Świdnik to the customer in February 2012. The second batch of Sokols is part of a contract signed with the Philippine Air Force in 2010. The contract includes a total of eight Sokol helicopters plus ground support equipment, spare parts, support services and training for aircrew and maintainers. The remaining two helicopters will be delivered in early 2013."

.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Xm08guM7_W...Rus%25C5%2582ana%2Bna%2BEPRZ_3.jpg


On the political front, officials are in discussions regarding rotations of military units to the country.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...Eyes-Greater-U-S-Military-Presence

"MANILA — U.S. and Philippine officials will meet this week to discuss expanding American presence in the Asian nation, a senior diplomat said, amid tensions with China over its claims to vast waters in the region.

The meetings in Manila on Dec. 11 and 12 will have a special focus on defense and regional matters, Philippine Assistant Secretary for U.S. affairs Carlos Sorreta told reporters.

'Foremost in the agenda is the increased rotational presence' of U.S. forces in the Philippines, he said Dec. 10.

This refers to U.S. troops and ships passing through the country for training or exercises, circumventing a constitutional ban on foreign bases in the Philippines."
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:57 pm

Another deal in the AFP Modernization Program likely to push through.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Quote:
"MANILA — The Philippines said Dec. 27 it would buy three naval helicopters from an Anglo-Italian manufacturer as part of its military modernization program amid a territorial dispute with China.

The three AW 109 'Power' helicopters from AgustaWestland will be acquired for 1.337 billion pesos ($32.5 million) under an emergency procurement program, the defense department said in a statement."



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Something tells me an -SP Grand New variant could follow   .

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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:31 pm

Things have been very quiet on the medium transport front...maybe the PAF is finding it hard to reconcile their desire for brand new Spartans with the money made (un)available to them.   

A solution might be found in the four undelivered C-27As meant for the AAF due to lack of spare parts and/or mission readiness.....

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....d_01_04_2013_p01-02-533438.xml&p=2

Quote:
"U.S. Air Force officials have decided not to renew a contract with Alenia North America to support and induct the small, Italian-made C-27A transport aircraft into the Afghan Air Force.

The decision, provided by the Air Force via letter Dec. 18, is the latest in a string of disappointments for Italian Aerospace conglomerate Finmeccanica as it has sought to boost its U.S. business.

[.....]

The moves come after what Air Force officials called 'failed attempts' by Alenia to 'generate a sufficient number of fully mission-capable aircraft for effective [Afghan Air Force] airlift capability.' According to Ed Gulick, a service spokesman, 'Though the Air Force assisted Alenia throughout the program in an effort to help the program succeed, Alenia struggled to consistently achieve key contractual requirements.'

[.....]

In 2008, the U.S. paid $314 million for the purchase of 20 former Italian Air Force G.222s — designated the C-27A by the Air Force — to give to the fledging Afghan National Army Air Corps, later the Afghan Air Force, an independent tactical transport capability to replace Soviet-era Antonov An-32s.

However, their introduction to service has been far from smooth. Only 16 of the aircraft have been delivered to Afghanistan, with four remaining in Italy. Despite a deployed team of contractors, the aircraft struggled with serviceability issues and have been grounded twice — once in December 2011 on airworthiness grounds, and again in March 2012 because of safety issues that delayed the training of Afghan personnel. That forced the use of smaller Cessna 208 Caravans and Mi-17 helicopters for transport operations.

[.....]

The NATO Training Mission and the Air Force will suspend C-27A flight operations in Afghanistan in the coming weeks, but no decision has been made on the final disposition of the aircraft and the associated support equipment and spare parts."



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There may now be a chance to acquire the four remaining frames at bargain basement prices    !

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/?s=from+solution+to+scrap+heap

From Solution to Scrapheap: The Afghan AF’s C-27A Transports
Jan 09, 2013 19:00 UTC



The PAF will only need to be alert that those are not passed off and paid as new-builds...and ensure maximum mission capabilities.   Otherwise, there still are the CASA C-295.....or the C-27Js the USAF doesn't want.      
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:00 pm

Elsewhere...related to the search for a true, multi-role naval helo in #24 in spite of #39... is this announcement for the first flight of the first Russian built AW139.....

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_01_15_2013_p0-536762.xml

Quote:
"The first Russian-built AgustaWestland AW139 has begun flying, bringing the AgustaWestland/Russian Helicopters joint venture HeliVert a step closer to its goal of producing up to 20 of the medium helicopters a year for the Russian market.

The first flight, announced today (Jan. 15), actually took place on Dec. 19 following the aircraft’s rollout the day before. The aircraft flew for 37 min. and completed a series of tests for Russian aviation authorities. It is now involved in a short flight test program before delivery to the as-yet-to-be-announced customer."



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Wonder if this isn't better suited?   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 18):
Cool, more places for the Chinese Navy to run aground.

Seems the PLAN doesn't have a monopoly on that distinction anymore.....   .

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Great dive location to be stranded at!   


A week earlier, a target drone was recovered drifting off one of the islands.....

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/globalnation.inquirer.net/files/2013/01/spy.jpg.pagespeed.ce.ZDSGtMX_SF.jpg
http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/...py.jpg.pagespeed.ce.ZDSGtMX_SF.jpg
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:50 am

Anyone who can translate the gist of this better, please? Seems just a rehash of older articles.....

http://www.nuovasocieta.it/inchieste...nno-shopping-di-armi-italiane.html

The Google translation made my head hurt!   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:34 pm

Unfortunately, it turns out the subjects of #40 and #42 will meet ignominious ends.....      

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...ns-undermine-afghan-air-force.html

Quote:
"The current plan is to destroy in Afghanistan the 20 aircraft already delivered, wasting the nearly $600 million the U.S government has already spent and leaving the AAF with no fixed wing transportation capability."


http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Quote:
"Caught between the jagged coral of an ocean reef and Filipino environmental and political concerns, the U.S. Navy says it will cut up the trapped USS Guardian and take it away piece by piece.

'Our only supportable option is to dismantle the damaged ship and remove it in sections,' Capt. Darryn James, spokesman for the U.S. Pacific Fleet, said Jan. 29."



Lead one to wonder about the final disposition of other sensitive agreements.....

.
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/conten...ero/photos/F-16/products/f16_4.png

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...-Tumult-Complicates-U-S-Arms-Sales

Quote:
"Egypt was a multibillion-dollar market that quickly evaporated during its revolution. Several industry executives cited Egypt as the one country that has had an impact on their sales. And with uncertainty surrounding the country’s foreign policy stance, and questions about the ruling government’s stability, weapons sales carry greater risk.

[.....]

'Our partners, given the greater instability, want the means to provide for their own security,' he said. 'While you’re right that we have to look very closely, it is also a time when our partners even more so want to invest in their own security. And we want to work with them to make sure that we’re filling their needs in the appropriate way.'

How the department determines which countries will remain allies and which aren’t ready for weapons can cause interagency disagreement."



http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...s-continues%3A-egypt-minister.html
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:40 pm

"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:41 am

The question now is the price difference.....

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Quote:
"Defense department spokesman Peter Galvez said the FA-50 was chosen because it fit all the country's requirements and because of its cost, adding that 18.9 billion pesos ($309 million) had been budgeted for the acquisition.

Manila will now begin negotiations for the aircraft, he said, adding that the government will seek to have two planes delivered as soon as possible so Filipino pilots can begin training on them."



Is it due to the shift from the TA to the FA variant...inclusion of weapons, training and maintenance support...or optional package bundled with the main contract (i.e KT-1 Wong Bee for COIN and Recce), etc.? The Flightglobal report at the thread's start cited $600M for 20 FA-50s.


IAI is offering this package which could change a regular helicopter to a naval mission role.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-helicopter-conversion-kit-381591/

Quote:
"IAI says the Skimmer package can integrate equipment including a radar, sonar, electro-optical sensor, datalink, electronic support measures and communications intelligence arrays, also with mission management and monitoring systems. Weapons such as anti-ship missiles can also be installed, with the system to be adapted for specific requirements ranging from anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare to amphibious assault, special operations and coastguard tasks.

The system can be installed on new or used helicopters, says a source from IAI, which is higlighting its experience as an engineering house and systems integrator."



Worth considering if it could really effectively convert the last four W-3 Sokols into dedicated maritime helo platforms for operations onboard the PN's desired frigates - economically    .


Meanwhile, Alenia demonstrated the Spartan's ability to take in the SF-260 in case those needed flying elsewhere.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/




Wonder if the KT-1 would also fit inside?   
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:35 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/Assets/GetAsset.aspx?ItemID=49441


Something to take into account with potential deals.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...cus-debt-dogs-finmeccanica-381607/

Quote:
"Broadly, the plan is to refocus on the successful AgustaWestland helicopter business, aeronautics – including a merger of the Alenia Aeronautica and Alenia Aermacchi civil and military aircraft units – and defence electronics and security, which will operate in the US under the banner of DRS, a business acquired in 2008 for $4.5 billion just before the financial crisis broke, and elsewhere by combining the various Selex companies into a single operation.

If the credit rating agencies’ perceptions are accurate, though, Finmeccanica faces a challenging 2013. S&P’s base-case assumption is that the group can 'slightly improve' its operating profits (2011 earnings before interest and taxes was a negative €2.39 billion ($2.05 billion) including some heavy write-downs, but for the first half of 2012 EBIT stood at less than 5% of revenue, and was all but wiped out by interest and taxes), but it 'no longer believes Finmeccanica’s credit metrics will improve' this year."



In other developments.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ffers-eurofighters-to-peru-381843/


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Quote:
"Spain's government has tendered a proposal to its Peruvian counterpart covering the possible sale of 18 Tranche 1 Eurofighter combat aircraft currently in service with its air force.

Reportedly valued at €45 million ($61 million) per aircraft, the proposal was submitted at the request of the Peruvian defence ministry. If negotiations go forward, the intention would be to transfer all of the fighters to Peru within one year of a contract signature. The airframes have flown an average of around 600h each, sources suggest."



Still quite pricey for first production airframes.         
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Devilfish
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:21 pm

A well-needed pause to reflect on the sobering realities of an operational jet fighter force.....

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http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-%E2%80%98in-storage%E2%80%99.html

Quote:
"Defence Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula has conceded that almost half of the air force’s state-of-the-art Gripen jet fighters have been placed in long-term storage.

Twenty-six Gripen fighters were purchased as part of the controversial arms deal at a cost of more than R10bn, but there has long been speculation that some or all of them would have to be mothballed due to lack of funds to keep them flying operationally.

[.....]

Mr Maynier responded that 'the 12 Gripen fighters in long-term storage are presumably vacuum-packed like frozen chickens, in a hangar somewhere in South Africa,' and that they had effectively been grounded because the operating budget had been stripped to the bone and the air force could not fly them.

'The sad facts of the Gripen system are as follows: 26 Gripen fighter jets were delivered; 10 or fewer are operational; 12 are in long-term storage; there are six qualified pilots; there are about 150 flying hours available to the entire squadron for 2013'."



And these for just single-engine jets...what more if those were twin-engine jet fighters?          Not a reason to stop the project altogether...but neither a green light to plunge headlong into the great unknown!   
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RE: Philippines Mull Aircraft Acquisition

Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 48):
they had effectively been grounded because the operating budget had been stripped to the bone and the air force could not fly them.

Then you have to take the consequences of that decision...

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 48):
what more if those were twin-engine jet fighters?

Probably ended up with 0 trained pilots with 0 ours of flight time...
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