g38
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Uncertain Future Of Saab Viggen 51-21

Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:28 am

Note to Mods: I would have posted this in the Lelystad topic, but I could not find it, so if you think this inappropriate placement feel free to delete or move this topic. It seems most every topic I post gets deleted for one reason or another, so for that I apologize.

My question is with the closing of the museum at Lelystad, what will become of the Saab Viggen 51-21? Is it still technically owned by the Swedish AF, and if so do they have any plans of preserving it?

On that note, I had heard talk that a Viggen or two might be preserved on the airshow circuit. Is there any truth to this? There seem to be a few high performance jet in private hands here and there (Mig-29s in the USA, and Hawker Hunters in Europe, etc.) Would it be at all possible even if unprobable that one might end up in private hands?

[Edited 2012-01-04 19:28:51]
 
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spudh
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RE: Uncertain Future Of Saab Viggen 51-21

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting g38 (Thread starter):
Would it be at all possible even if unprobable that one might end up in private hands?

I would love to see one of these still flying in years to come. I think they were one of the most underrated fighters ever, far superior to operation in europe than some of the aircraft that beat it in competions. People go on about 9G fighters, these things were designed for 12G!! Short take off and landings from remote strips, very surviveable.
 
Doona
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RE: Uncertain Future Of Saab Viggen 51-21

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting spudh (Reply 1):
People go on about 9G fighters, these things were designed for 12G!! Short take off and landings from remote strips, very surviveable.

And, at one point, able to get a radar lock on an SR-71 over the Baltic back in the 80's, IIRC. Not bad at all...

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ptrjong
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RE: Uncertain Future Of Saab Viggen 51-21

Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:11 pm

Quoting g38 (Thread starter):

I remember the Viggen's arrival in Lelystad on a nice winter day six years ago.

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Photo © Peter de Jong
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Photo © Peter de Jong



I believe the aircraft was donated to the museum, I'm not sure though.

In any case, I dont't think there will be, or should be, much fuss about the fate of this Viggen. You can't preseve all old aircraft, and qiuite a number are in European museums even outside Sweden, including Cracow, Hermeskeil, Madrid-Cuatro Vientos and Montelimar.

Quoting spudh (Reply 1):
. I think they were one of the most underrated fighters ever, far superior to operation in europe than some of the aircraft that beat it in competions. People go on about 9G fighters, these things were designed for 12G!!

You seem to imply that the Viggen was superior to the F-16. Generally speaking I disagree with that. Saab's real masterpiece was the Draken which was superior to the F-104, Mirage III and everything else in the previous round.

Peter 
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spudh
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RE: Uncertain Future Of Saab Viggen 51-21

Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 3):
You seem to imply that the Viggen was superior to the F-16. Generally speaking I disagree with that. Saab's real masterpiece was the Draken which was superior to the F-104, Mirage III and everything else in the previous round.

I agree with you completely on the Draken but the Viggen had attributes which I believe made it better suited to some operations on the Eastern European front than the F-16. While I'm pretty sure that it could give a good account of itself in the air ironically for a fighter it is on the ground that I feel the Viggen was superior.

If you look at each air war since Vietnam the vast majority of fighters have been destroyed sitting on the runway not in the air. In each of the Israeli, Balkan and Gulf wars this is the way it panned out. The Viggen was designed from the outset with dispersed operations from roads, maintained by conscripted forces as part of its design rationale. It would be very difficult to make a big dent on the Viggen force with a pre-emptive strike. The F-16 by contrast and every other western fighter bar the A-10 and Harrier are firmly tied to big long runways and their associated intensive ground crew infrastructure with great big 'hit me here' signs.

Which of these two scenarios would you rather have at your disposal if the cold war had turned hot? In comparison to Sweden, how many of Germany, Austria, Italy, Greece or Turkeys front line fighters beyond the alert squadrons would have gotten beyond the first day? ideally you would have wanted both available but the Viggen was never procured by anybody else along the Eastern front because it was always in direct competion with the F-16 when in fact it would have been very complimentary.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Uncertain Future Of Saab Viggen 51-21

Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting spudh (Reply 4):

And I agree with a lot of what you're saying. The F-16 is a good fighter only if you have a spotless big concrete airbase, which is quite an assumption.

The Viggen was more survivable. But I wonder if it was really that flexibe. It's big, heavy, draggy. There were four quite different versions plus a trainer that looks really clumsy   I feel it should have been smaller and more practical, more multirole. Admittedly I have nothing to back this up, except that the Gripen is very much like that  

[Edited 2012-01-07 09:25:16]
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