andydtwnwa7
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USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:59 pm

Just as the title implies, is it possible for any USAF aircraft (fixed wing or rotor) to land on a carrier, even under emergency circumstances?

Also, has it ever been done in the past, either in an emergency or planned?

Edit: This is a question of equipment more-so than pilot ability. Obviously the capabilities of a USAF pilot vs a USN pilot are different, and this thread is not meant to turn into a "who has the better pilots" debate.

[Edited 2012-01-23 14:08:44]
 
canoecarrier
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:13 pm

I may be wrong, but I don't think it has ever happened. Although some USAF aircraft have tailhooks they're more for use on runways when the brakes fail. Probably the #1 reason that it hasn't happened in the past is that the landing gear structure is not as strong on USAF aircraft and such a landing would likely lead to significant structural damage.

The CIA has landed U2's on aircraft carriers though. And, I'm sure many times the Army has landed helos on carriers.
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kingairta
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:01 am

I highly doubt an AF in an "emergency" could even get the plane on the deck in a safe enough manner to even go into the barrier. Even the people who do it for a living have a hard time in an emergency situation. For the safety of the pilot and flight deck crew the AF pilot would be better off ejecting near the carrier so the plane guard can pick him up.
 
rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:57 am

Most USAF aircraft don't have a landing gear and tailhook assembly built for carrier landings. Probably the F-4 or the A-7 were the last USAF aircraft even built with the necessary strength. Certainly nothing in the current inventory could do a carrier landing.

If the USAF pilot flew a successful approach and hit the deck, the gear would likely fail, or worse, one main gear fail and the other not.

Excepting of course, some of the lighter aircraft (under 45,000 lbs landing weight) could be successfully flown into a barricade - though it is not something USAF pilots train to accomplish.

In general the USAF design concept is to not spend the extra 300-400 lbs for a possible carrier landing, rather to use that weight on a common aircraft for more fuel, avionics or weapons capability.

In the past when there were more common aircraft between the USMC/USN/USAF - we used to see some cross service tours in active squadrons by pilots.

I remember a USAF Major who was stationed at Andersen AFB, and would come down to fly our A-3 Skywarriors about once a month back in 72-74. He was an B-66 pilot and had spent one two year tour with a VAH squadron including a Gulf of Tonkin deployment about 69-70. He had over 100 successful carrier landings.

He kept wanting the CO to let him reestablish his carrier qualifications, but Capt Akin wasn't agreeing.
 
LMP737
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:25 am

I believe a USAF aircraft landing on a carrier would be called a crash. A very messy one at that.
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BladeLWS
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting andydtwnwa7 (Thread starter):
Just as the title implies, is it possible for any USAF aircraft (fixed wing or rotor) to land on a carrier, even under emergency circumstances?

Rotor, sure.

Fixed wing, well if you like your landing gear to be turned inside out and the tailhook left sitting on the deck as the plane skids into the ocean then sure, why not!

Naval aircraft have a much heavier landing gear (dual nose wheels, much larger actuators, huge tailhooks).
 
LMP737
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:58 am

There was once a cartoon of a USAF F-4 lining up on final behind a USN carrier . It shows the crew jumping off the side of the boat!  
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canoecarrier
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:22 am

All this being said, the USMC did land a C-130 on a carrier during tests to see if replenishment at sea could be conducted by a C-130. To my knowledge, they didn't make any structural changes in order to make that happen.

It is feasible in certain aircraft that the USAF flies without any major changes as well. But, unlikely they would try. The C-12, C-130, U-2, U-28, UV-18 and CV-22 could all land on an aircraft carrier, some of them already have for other services.

For the historians here, B-25's flown by Army crews were pretty successful flying off a Navy carrier in 1942 with Doolittle.
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Francoflier
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:27 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 1):
For the safety of the pilot and flight deck crew the AF pilot would be better off ejecting near the carrier so the plane guard can pick him up.

Definitely.

Attempting to trap an USAF aircraft, especially in an emergency, would likely impart a lot of damage to it in the best of cases and would realistically damage other equipment/aircrafts on the carrier and endanger its crew.

Write it off, take the plunge, and endure the navy pilots' mockery while in their captivity...
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notaxonrotax
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:02 pm

Was there ever a case of a microlight (or some other type of private aircraft) landing on an aircraft carrier?
Due to an emergency or perhaps just some home-grown loony trying to attract attention?

Just wonderin´.......imagine the paperwork!

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Stealthz
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 9):
Was there ever a case of a microlight (or some other type of private aircraft) landing on an aircraft carrier?

I recall reading many years ago in a US av magazine about some guys that landed a GA aircraft(Bonanza IIRC) on a decommissioned carrier.

If my memory serves me I believe they realised just before touch down that the arrestor cables were still across the deck and managed to pull up and extend their landing a bit... avoiding a very nasty "trap"
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757gb
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:19 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
All this being said, the USMC did land a C-130 on a carrier during tests to see if replenishment at sea could be conducted by a C-130. To my knowledge, they didn't make any structural changes in order to make that happen.

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sprout5199
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:50 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
All this being said, the USMC did land a C-130 on a carrier during tests to see if replenishment at sea could be conducted by a C-130. To my knowledge, they didn't make any structural changes in order to make that happen.
Quoting 757gb (Reply 11):
"Look Ma, No Hook!"

http://youtu.be/BjNyQvhsQE8

The landing was made by the son of the namesake of the ship I served on USS Flatley (FFG-21). I met Adm Flatley (the son) twice as I was his driver when we had change of command. Nice guy, sat up front with me when I drove him, instead of in the back. I didnt know he landed the Herc at the time, or I would have asked a bunch of questions and gotten his autograph/picture. Very down to earth, remembered me the second time(might have been my red/orange hair), just liked to BS, asked how the ships was etc. Was the highest ranking Officer I ever met (Rear Adm--2 stars)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Flatley The father

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Flatley_III The son

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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 12):

Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing!
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rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
the USMC did land a C-130 on a carrier

Uh, no. The aircraft was a USMC KC-130, modified with a few things, including an improved anti-skid braking system. But the aircraft was flown by two US Navy pilots with extensive carrier experience, a USN enlisted flight engineer and a Lockheed test pilot aboard.

That said - USMC pilots have flown onto and off carriers for a long time - almost as long as US Navy pilots. My cousin was a B/N in USMC F-4s 67-70 - and hated the carrier landings they were required to do.

We all know the Harriers operate off special ships, but USMC F/A18 squadrons deployed on carriers as part of the Carrier Air Wing at least through the 1990s, probably later.

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 9):
Was there ever a case of a microlight (or some other type of private aircraft) landing on an aircraft carrier?
Due to an emergency or perhaps just some home-grown loony trying to attract attention?

The Cessna O-1 landing on the USS Midway on 29 Apr 1975 is the only instance that I know of occuring. The only reason the captain authorized the attempt was that the RVN Major had seven people in the aircraft, himself, his wife and five children - and it was assumed that it would be impossible to expect everyone to safely evacuate the overloaded aircraft if it ditched.

The aircraft is on display at the Naval Avaition Museum in Pensacola.

Part of the excitement of letting the plane attempt to land was pushing over the side of the USS Midway several South Vietnamese UH-1 helicopters which other escaping pilots had use to land on the USS Midway.

I was stationed at Clark at the time, flying in and out of Saigon daily on C-130s. When I heard the story, I didn't believe it, but say the plane on the USS Midway when it pulled into Subic. Years later when I was stationed in Yokosuka, I saw a rather extensive exhibit on the ship documenting the landing.

Wikipedia has a very accurate description of the landing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)#A_return_to_Vietnam
 
studedave
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 3):
In the past when there were more common aircraft between the USMC/USN/USAF - we used to see some cross service tours in active squadrons by pilots.

In the VAQ community it was done quite often. My understanding is that it was done when the 'Q' squadron was going to deply to a base rather then a Carrier. These deployments started soon after the EF-111s went away- two or three squadrons were actually designated for this duty. The AF guy/gal was there to help the NAVY learn the ways of the AF, their tactics, and what-not. I do not know if it is still done anymore, but I can't see why not- the VAQs are still doing shore based deployments.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 14):
but USMC F/A18 squadrons deployed on carriers as part of the Carrier Air Wing at least through the 1990s, probably later.

Very much later, an maybe even still to this day- my last deployment in '05 had Marines in the AirWing.



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L-188
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:28 pm

Not sure a USAF Spec F-4 could do it since they went to a wider lower pressure tire ont the D then the Nacy had on the B models.

Air force A7s where all Bult for eithe Navy or USAF specs so I don't think that frame would be able either.

The only fixed wing I can thing of the USAF would able to regularly land would be the Sandys Aka the A-1 Skyraider but all those frames theUSAF got out of the desert after the Navy was done with them.

I think you would have more much finding Army fixed wings that could do it.
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zanl188
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:43 pm

Quoting andydtwnwa7 (Thread starter):
Just as the title implies, is it possible for any USAF aircraft (fixed wing or rotor) to land on a carrier, even under emergency circumstances?

Yes, as recently as last year USAF HH-60s operated off of HMS Ocean as part of operations in Libya.

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...isitsHmsOceanToPraiseLibyaRole.htm
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Max Q
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting andydtwnwa7 (Thread starter):


Just as the title implies, is it possible for any USAF aircraft (fixed wing or rotor) to land on a carrier, even under emergency circumstances?

Certainly, just don't plan on using the Aircraft again..
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L-188
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:58 am

Thing about it, I know that the Marines flew their OV-10's off carriers and helicopter assault ships, I don't think they landed them on them though, but there is no reason why the air force couldn't. But if they did they probably dont need to do arrested landings, they probably can get slow enough.

The first p-40's brought ashore for operation torch where flown off the deck off USS Ranger. But I want to say here where craned on.

Anyway if the Marines could fly their OV10's on carriers, I don't see any reason the army couldn't land the OV-1 Mohawk, C-7 Caribou, and the OV-18 twin otter on the carrier
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BMI727
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:15 am

Quoting andydtwnwa7 (Thread starter):

Just as the title implies, is it possible for any USAF aircraft (fixed wing or rotor) to land on a carrier, even under emergency circumstances?

Not likely more than once. The landing gear probably couldn't take it, and even if it could, there is a difference between land and stop. I bet the tailhook on USAF aircraft would get yanked off too.
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spudh
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:41 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
Anyway if the Marines could fly their OV10's on carriers, I don't see any reason the army couldn't land the OV-1 Mohawk, C-7 Caribou, and the OV-18 twin otter on the carrier

I can't see much reason why they couldn't if the brakes are up to it. A carrier can cruise at 30+knots, if it can do this into a 10 or 15 knot headwind then you've got potentially 45knots wind over deck. I've seen the stall speed for an OV-10 quoted as 55mph. Even if thats a mistake and its 55kts you're still landing on a 600+ft long runway at a relative speed of 10kts, say 20kts to allow for a margin over stall. I reckon if it was modified with either air brakes or a lift dump device it could operate quite safely under those constrained conditions.

As for any other type of USAF, well all the other posts have that covered. I find the discussions on the F-4 and A-7 very interesting. You would have thought that a carrier qual'd pilot would have been able to bring those back, I wasn't aware of the mods done but I suppose it makes a lot of sense.

Do shore based Navy squadrons put different wheels on their fighters? I'm think particularly reserve and training squadrons whose planes spend 90% of their lives on runways.
 
Stealthz
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:50 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
C-7 Caribou

I know Caribou crew(am the son of one) that would claim the hardest part of landing a 'bou on a carrier would be catching it!!

Any decent Caribou driver could have the thing slow enough that there would be little need for arrestor gear.. or indeed brakes!
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rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
C-7 Caribou,

Wingspan at 95.58 feet / 29.13M is too wide for a carrier landing.

Over 80 feet, it's getting too close to obstructions.

Yes, the C-130 had a larger wingspan. They shortened the tips to make it smaller and landed with an artificial centerline painted on the deck. For a one-off test, it worked. For an 'emergency' - without the modified vlsual??

The other thing is the approach which has to be steep. A 'normal' approach is going to fly into the back of the ship, even if the ship slows to 10 knots or so to maintain steerage.

Let's put it this way. If a crew can land on St Barts Rwy 10 from over the hill, land on the displaced threshold and stop before the taxiway - about 600 feet - they could make a carrier landing.

If they take longer than that to stop, it could possibly go off the angle.

The O-1 which landed on the USS Midway required the arresting gear cables be disconnected. Most of the lighter aircraft would also require that to avoid ripping the gear off.

[Edited 2012-01-25 05:27:25]
 
kingairta
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:51 pm

There were no structural changes to the C130 when it did carrier trials. The only change was the removal of the low speed pitch stops on the prop housing so the props would go into reverse without delay.
 
LMP737
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting spudh (Reply 21):
Do shore based Navy squadrons put different wheels on their fighters? I'm think particularly reserve and training squadrons whose planes spend 90% of their lives on runways.

Even if an aircraft is shore based, i.e.a training outfit or RAG as is is called in the Navy, it will still use the same tire/wheel assembly as a seagoing outfithas. There are two reasons for this. One, eventually that aircraft will land on a carrier. Two having to sets of tire/wheel assemblies would unnecasarily increase costs.
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sprout5199
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 23):
The other thing is the approach which has to be steep. A 'normal' approach is going to fly into the back of the ship, even if the ship slows to 10 knots or so to maintain steerage.

Can you explain this?


Dan in Jupiter
 
rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 26):
Can you explain this?

When I go out and setup a landing on my local airport, I line up with the runway, use an approach which approximates the VASI glide slope and land.

If I were to go out to an aircraft carrier for a normal approach I've got to make a lot of changes.

The centerline of the runway is canted 14 degrees to the left. I actually have to approach from the right and line up with where the centerline will be when I get to the ship - not where I can see the centerline.

While it was easy to learn to point the small plane I fly into the wind and crab to stay on the centerline - approaching a carrier the centerline is crabbing and I have to stay in position while the runway (ship) changes location.

With a normal landing - I come in at a shallow angle set to hit the touchdown zone.

Going into a carrier that shallow angle will put me below the elevation of the flight deck because the ship is moving forward.

So carrier pilots have to do a version of a steep short field approach.

Their goal is not to smoothly land in the touchdown zone of the runway. The goal is to plant the aircraft hook solidly in an area about 25 feet wide and 50 feet long. You could go to 150 feet long and catch one of the non-preferred wires. If you miss that area - the hook will not catch. If you are five feet low - the hook will hit the deck early and bounce up too high to catch the arresting cables.

The safest approach is steeper than normal so you plant the aircraft on an exact spot.

Also, when I touchdown, I try to be right at stall speed. A carrier landing requires the aircraft to be faster than stall speed so that it can bolter successfully.

If you are approaching an aircraft carrier to land in a non-carrier aircraft without arresting gear - you've still got to come in with a steep approach to hit a very narrow, very short touchdown area. Unlike the short field landing most pilots train for, you have to come in fast enough to go around, not at minimum speed.
 
sprout5199
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
Going into a carrier that shallow angle will put me below the elevation of the flight deck because the ship is moving forward.

Ok that I understand.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
When I go out and setup a landing on my local airport, I line up with the runway, use an approach which approximates the VASI glide slope and land.

I believe all US Navy ships with a flight deck have some thing like this be it the OLS or the SGSI. I remember having one on the FFG that I served on.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 27):
If you are approaching an aircraft carrier to land in a non-carrier aircraft without arresting gear - you've still got to come in with a steep approach to hit a very narrow, very short touchdown area. Unlike the short field landing most pilots train for, you have to come in fast enough to go around, not at minimum speed.

I can understand this, however when I do a landing in a C152(short,soft or normal) I always have the option of going around.

I guess what I am saying is I can see doing a landing with a C152 onto a CVN(hell a good pilot could land on one of the elevators) with the slow stall speed of the plane and the speed of the ship, which I think is higher than the stall speed of a C152, off the record of course.

Dan in Jupiter
 
rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 28):
I believe all US Navy ships with a flight deck have some thing like this be it the OLS or the SGSI.

The glide slope lighting systems for a carrier are quite fancy and are offset for the aircraft type and ship speed. The use of computers has really helped update and make those almost instantly configurable. What is the projected glide slope for an F-18 with a 30 knot ship speed and 15 knots of wind - 45 knots over the bow - it different for a C-2 with a 25 knot ship speed and 6 knots of wind.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 28):
off the record of course.

Of course. Civilians never believe old sailors.
 
L-188
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:45 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 23):
The O-1 which landed on the USS Midway required the arresting gear cables be disconnected. Most of the lighter aircraft would also require that to avoid ripping the gear off

That was probably due to the small tires on the Bird Dog. If that thing where flying with 24's or some of the larger sizes I see on bush planes that wouldn't be a problem.

I remember a couple of years ago in Flying Magazine, there was a "I learned about flying from that" story about a guy that was renting a 150 from an air base aero-club and got hung up on the arresting cables on the runway with the small tires......Just as a C-5 was turning final.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 23):
Wingspan at 95.58 feet / 29.13M is too wide for a carrier landing

I am going to make mention that NASA in the early 1980's had a DHC-5 that they converted to a testbed for the QRSA (Quiet Short-haul Reserch Aircraft) with four jet engines blowing over the wing and did test it in operations off the USS. Kitty Hawk


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connies4ever
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:30 am

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
All this being said, the USMC did land a C-130 on a carrier during tests to see if replenishment at sea could be conducted by a C-130. To my knowledge, they didn't make any structural changes in order to make that happen.


Some of the oddest pix I've ever seen, I mean, you just don;t expect to see a Herc parked on the deck of the Forrestal.

http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c130_forrestal.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfwJJD5jGXk
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rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 31):
you just don;t expect to see a Herc parked on the deck of the Forrestal.

The parking was a big part of the reason the concept was turned down. If a C-130 had maintenance issues or damage and had to remain on the carrier - that would have required the carrier to return to port. Anything like normal air ops to screen the carrier, or defend the carrier/ battle group would have been impossible.
 
sprout5199
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 32):
The parking was a big part of the reason the concept was turned down. If a C-130 had maintenance issues or damage and had to remain on the carrier - that would have required the carrier to return to port. Anything like normal air ops to screen the carrier, or defend the carrier/ battle group would have been impossible.

I sure if it went into operation, they would have pushed it over the side if needed.

On a side note, I remember hearing about a Harrier that landed on an FFG. IIRC it was in the pacific, the harrier couldnt make it back to his ship or to land so he landed onboard the fig. Burned the non-skid off the ship and the ship had to go to port but saved the airplane. Might have been a sea story but a good one.

Dan in Jupiter
 
spudh
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:12 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 33):
On a side note, I remember hearing about a Harrier that landed on an FFG. IIRC it was in the pacific, the harrier couldnt make it back to his ship or to land so he landed onboard the fig. Burned the non-skid off the ship and the ship had to go to port but saved the airplane. Might have been a sea story but a good one.

There was a detailed post on that incident on here somewhere. IIRC the pilot got lost and was unbelievebly lucky to find a ship he could get down on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD4oiBSXGDM

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/Oldies__Oddities_.html
 
Max Q
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:30 am

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 33):

On a side note, I remember hearing about a Harrier that landed on an FFG

The problem with abbreviations is they often only mean something to the people who use them.



What the hell is an FFG ?!
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rfields5421
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):
What the hell is an FFG ?!

A frigate is about the smallest traditional surface warship which today performs Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) screening and would do convoy screening if needed.

An FFG in the US Navy would currently be a Oliver Hazard Perry class ship - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry_class_frigate

About 450 feet long with a 45 foot beam powered by gas turbine engines (yes very similar to jet engines) with a crew of 175-180.

The flight deck is pretty small and landing can be a real challenge in helos because almost any open ocean wave action will make the ship move a lot.
 
L-188
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:04 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 36):
About 450 feet long with a 45 foot beam powered by gas turbine engines (yes very similar to jet engines) with a crew of 175-180.

Actually it is a jet engine. In that ships case the LM-2500 which is the gas generator version of the CF-6
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:53 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 32):
If a C-130 had maintenance issues or damage and had to remain on the carrier - that would have required the carrier to return to port. Anything like normal air ops to screen the carrier, or defend the carrier/ battle group would have been impossible.

Thats when they chuck it off the fan tail.  
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sprout5199
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RE: USAF- Carrier Landings Possible?

Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:06 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):
The problem with abbreviations is they often only mean something to the people who use them.



What the hell is an FFG ?!

My bad. A FFG stands for Fast Frigate Guided, or in lubbers speak, Guided Missile Frigate. To confuse things even more the Perry's are now FFs as the Mk13 missile launcher has been removed, so the G part is gone but remains in the class name. They were/are a large class of inexpensive ocean escorts. I speak fondly of them as I served on one for 4 years in the late eighties

Dan in Jupiter

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