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kc135topboom
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Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:11 pm

It appears that EADS has, or is going to offer the RAAF a 6th KC-30A tanker. This A-330 airplane has not been modified into the A-330MRTT configuration. The airplane is one of two KC-45As assembled by Airbus under their contract with NG after winning the 2008 KC-X contract. EADS would like that work done in Austraila.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...canberra-a-sixth-a330-mrtt-369309/

Depending on the price of the offered unmodified tanker, this could be a good deal for the RAAF, if they can find the money to buy it and modify it into the KC-30A configuration.

This story has been out since 9 Mar. 2012, but I have searched and have not found the thread here on a.net.
 
Legs
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
could be a good deal for the RAAF

I wonder how many flight hours this airframe has accrued, and what configuration differences there might be. The RAAF might be loathe to introduce an orphan to the fleet.

EADS and its contractors here in Australia have been made a fair amount of noise about the jobs aspect of this, insinuating that if the line is kept open, follow on work is near guaranteed. Whether or not that is the case will probably remain to be seen, but the thrust of EADS' argument is certainly about jobs and maintaining capability, as opposed to the benefits of having a sixth airframe.

Another thing I just thought of, with 12 large jets based here (6 MRTT and 6 C-17), tarmac space here on the ground at Amberley will be at a premium.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting legs (Reply 1):
I wonder how many flight hours this airframe has accrued, and what configuration differences there might be. The RAAF might be loathe to introduce an orphan to the fleet.

IIRC, this airframe only has a few hours on it, less than 10 total flying hours, and at most 2-3 cycles. It has been stored, without engines since it was flight tested.

Quoting legs (Reply 1):
Another thing I just thought of, with 12 large jets based here (6 MRTT and 6 C-17), tarmac space here on the ground at Amberley will be at a premium.

How often will all 12 jets be home at the same time? There should be one in heavy maintenance, one or two "on the road", and other missions at just about any given time.

Quoting legs (Reply 1):
EADS and its contractors here in Australia have been made a fair amount of noise about the jobs aspect of this, insinuating that if the line is kept open, follow on work is near guaranteed. Whether or not that is the case will probably remain to be seen, but the thrust of EADS' argument is certainly about jobs and maintaining capability, as opposed to the benefits of having a sixth airframe.

Correct.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:39 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
could be a good deal for the RAAF

A better deal for EADS as they would get money from the sale and could scratch an idle asset off their books, while still earning on it down the line.

[Edited 2012-04-02 15:45:30]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 3):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):could be a good deal for the RAAF
A better deal for EADS as they would get money from the sale and could scratch an idle asset off their books, while still earning money from it down the line.

The USAF is not oblagated to buy this airplane, just to put in the desert at DM, and scrap it later. NG was the customer since NG was the prime contractor and EADS was a sub-contractor.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:55 pm

My bad. I thought EADS owned the frames and are now selling one to the RAAF.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Legs
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:10 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
will all 12 jets be home at the same time?

Very good point. It really depends on how much the Australian Government commits the MRTT's to operations overseas, if at all. Otherwise they may well spend a lot of their lives staging out of their homebase.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 5):
I thought EADS owned the frames and are now selling one to the RAAF.

Actually EADS does own the airframe, as no one has paid for it.

Quoting legs (Reply 6):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):will all 12 jets be home at the same time?
Very good point. It really depends on how much the Australian Government commits the MRTT's to operations overseas, if at all.

Yes, but it is also likely the C-17s will be overseas a lot, too. Isn't the 6th RAAF C-17 actually co-owned with the RNZAF?
 
Legs
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:13 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
C-17 actually co-owned

As far as I can tell, no it isn't. The Defence Minister's media release makes no mention of joint ownership.
 
bennett123
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:59 pm

Does anyone know the MSN of the KC45A's and which one is going to the RAAF?.

Many thanks.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:08 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 9):
Does anyone know the MSN of the KC45A's and which one is going to the RAAF?.

The airplane that is offered to the RAAF is MSN-871, stored for 4 years now, current tail # F-WWKU. The other one is MSN-925, also stored for 4 years, currewnt tail # F-WWKB.

MSN-871 first flight was 9/25/2007, well before the contract was awarded, and it is listed as an A-330-203.

MSN-925 first flight was 4/18/2008, and is listed as an A-330-202.

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-a330-925.htm

http://www.planespotters.net/Product...--USAF-United-States-Air-Force.php
 
r2rho
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:06 am

I was wondering what EADS would do with the two frames they built for KC-X, this would answer the question for one of them.

IIRC, MSN871 had been sent to EFW facilities at DRS for freighter conversion work, which I assume(?) is done. But tanker conversion work for MRTT (typically done at Airbus Military in Getafe, but the Australians have been doing it themselves on their frames) was never done. So the RAAF would have the option to take a freighter-converted frame and finish it, while EADS can get rid of an idle frame that is just accumulating dust.

I don't know how far they went with MSN925 conversion work, I assume not much if at all, so that it is likely it is just a green a/c sitting around.
 
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zeke
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:04 pm

I was actually of the understanding that this was part of the EADS submission for the RAAF AIR 8000 Phase 2 – Battlefield Airlift – Caribou Replacement, a combination of C-295s and an A330 transport aircraft.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:08 pm

I think you got something mixed up, Zeke. The A-330/KC-30 transport program is AIR 8000 Phase 3, the C-17 program is Phase 4 (the 6th C-17 funding might have been taken from Phase 1 which was to buy 2 more C-130J-30s). The Caribou replacement is Phase 2 and there are no A-330 transports in it. AIUI, the two remaining contenders ar the C-295 and the C-27J. But Phase 2 has been a troubled program for over 10 years now, and may now never happen, but we cannot know for sure. The RAAF is using some of their King Air-350s as interum replacements the Caribous.
 
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zeke
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:17 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 13):

Not mixed up at all, the additional A330 from what I understand was attached to the C-295 submission for phase 2 as per my previous post.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Eads Offers Raaf 6th KC-30

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:12 pm

Is there an update to the AIR 8000 Phase 2? The last version I saw didn't mention any A-330s.

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