EGSUcrew
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US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:10 pm

Reports are coming in that a US Navy F-18 has crashed into a residential area in Virginia.

No details as yet.

Let's hope for good news..
 
PC12Fan
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:21 pm

Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
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STT757
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:25 pm

Here's a link with a photo;

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...in_virginia_c5kGuIa7WVq9AvL5IgseSJ

Oceana NAS was almost closed during the last BRAC in 2005 due to encroachment of sprawl. Oceana NAS was not even on the BRAC list in 2005, the BRAC committee decided to add it due to the Navy's frustration with the local municipalities inability to control residential sprawl from encroaching on Oceana. Incidents like this unfortunate incident are only going to make the pressure greater for Oceana to be closed. The local politicians don't want the base to close, and to lose the tens of thousands of jobs that go with Oceana. However they were the ones who allowed the base to be threatened by unrestrained development.

The BRAC committee was looking reactivating Cecil Field in Jacksonville, and relocating the Air wings from Oceana to Cecil field. This option may come up again in the next BRAC, either moving to Cecil field or realigning an AFB or MCAS in North Carolina (Cherry Point) , South Carolina (Beaufort) or Georgia (Moody AFB).
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threeifbyair
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:39 pm

Both crew ejected, taken to hospital with injuries.

Appears to have impacted about 2-3 miles NE of the end of the runway in an area filled with apartment buildings. Given the location and witness descriptions, this could be a duel flameout situation.

I have a friend in the Navy who lives in Virginia Beach not far from the crash site - fortunately he is at sea right now.

Hopefully no ground casualties, but I'm not optimistic given the location.  
 
Powerslide
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:04 pm

From the photo it looks like the left engine flamed out, with the right engine at max. Same thing happened a few summers ago at the lethbridge airshow with a CF-18. Hope no one on the ground got hit.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:33 pm

One of my favourites at air show flying displays.

Could have been a lot worse had the plane crashed on a building/supermarket with lots of people inside.
Looks like a big fire with big flames and thick black smoke.

F-18 jet crashes into apartments in Virginia next to elementary school (PHOTOS, VIDEO)
http://rt.com/news/navy-jet-crashes-virginia-475/

Video from Youtube

A Navy Jet crashed into an apartment building off of Birdneck Rd in Va Beach. April 6th, 2012.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=viuarztYLtM

    
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
PHX787
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:42 pm

Apparently no reports of fatalities, as of yet. Thank god.
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STT757
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:43 pm

Very reminiscent of the tragic accident of the F-18 crashing into houses in San Diego on approach to Miramar, another Navy/Marine air station being approached upon by sprawl.

Oceana is going to need to be moved, it's not a great situation to have fighters on approach over condos and schools. Major air stations like Oceana need buffer zones, for noise and for safety. They're options out there, especially if there is another BRAC consolidation round.
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BladeLWS
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:00 pm

I don't see why PAX River wouldn't work. It's surrounded on three sides by water and has lots of open land that could be made into ramp/hangar space. Another option would be Lakehurst, lots of land to.
 
vatveng
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:00 pm

Navy & hospital officials scheduled to give a briefing in a few minutes.

http://www.wavy.com/generic/news/WAVY_Newscast_Live_Stream
 
PHX787
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:20 pm

According to CNN, one of the pilots landed near the scene of the crash and was reportedly "apologetic" to the residents for crashing the plane there. That's a good sign obviously in terms of the pilots.
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STT757
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 8):
I don't see why PAX River wouldn't work. It's surrounded on three sides by water and has lots of open land that could be made into ramp/hangar space. Another option would be Lakehurst, lots of land to.

Lakehurst is not part of Joint Base MDL under control of the Air Force, although the Navy Air Engineering station is a tenant. Lakehurst is used for Eagle flag, and C-17 assault training. PAX is the main test and evaluation center, neither or suitable for hosting the East Coast Fighter Wings.

Cecil, Cherry Point, Moody AFB, Beaufort are possibilities.
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747400sp
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:07 pm

I actually, just left NAS Oceania, not that long before the crash. I stop at a store and then headed to Mount Trashmore. On my way to Mount Trashmore, I saw some black smoke rising, and thought, could this be a plane crash. A female friend, later told that a plane just crashed and I realize that the black smoke that I saw at Mount Trashmore, had to come from that crash.
 
gocaps16
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:54 am

I was in shock when I heard this. Spent 4 years in Oceana with the Tomcats from 2003-2007. Don't want to be in that squadron right now. I'm sure there will be multiple sailors (possible from the AIMD side who does major overhauls on the aircraft) who will likely get in deep trouble after the investigation since it's ruled "catastrophic mechanical failure" according to the Captain. This reminds me the F/A-18 that crashed near my family's house in San Diego years back, but thankfully no was killed around the Birdneck area complex. I was always worried about living near a NAS because those birds are always flying nonstop around the clock between Oceana and Fentress.
 
checksixx
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:04 am

Couple of things...first, people who develop or move into housing that has been developed near an airbase and then complain about the noise or about a jet falling into the neighborhood need to have some common sense re-applied to them ASAP.

Now this crash...

My guess...an un-contained engine failure...then the subsequent asymmetric thrust, causing a crash. That's if it was at a low airspeed.

Second...Everyone keeps saying how the pilot was dumping fuel etc....the pilot would not be dumping fuel. My guess is that it was either hydraulic fluid or fuel being vented out the damaged area from an engine coming apart.


-Check
 
HaveBlue
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:06 am

Quoting checksixx (Reply 14):
Couple of things...first, people who develop or move into housing that has been developed near an airbase and then complain about the noise or about a jet falling into the neighborhood need to have some common sense re-applied to them ASAP.

Could not agree more. I live in Daytona Beach, FL. We have several flight schools (one of which I went to) that use nearby New Smyrna Beach, Deland, Ormond and Flagler for training. There is a movement in NSB to stop the 'noise' from light aircraft flights... well, it was likely there before you moved there so why should the city or flight schools accomodate? Let's move next to an airport then complain about aircraft movement. The NIMBY's don't gain any sympathy from me.
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Revelation
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting checksixx (Reply 14):
Second...Everyone keeps saying how the pilot was dumping fuel etc....the pilot would not be dumping fuel. My guess is that it was either hydraulic fluid or fuel being vented out the damaged area from an engine coming apart.

Yeah, that didn't make any sense to me. I certainly wondered why a F-18 would have fuel dump capacity to begin with, and especially a built-in capacity to dump fuel as fast as seems to have happened here. I agree that it seems far more likely to be a failure rather than a pilot choosing to dump fuel.
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dragon6172
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
Yeah, that didn't make any sense to me. I certainly wondered why a F-18 would have fuel dump capacity to begin with, and especially a built-in capacity to dump fuel as fast as seems to have happened here. I agree that it seems far more likely to be a failure rather than a pilot choosing to dump fuel.

F/A-18 has fuel jettison capability, as do all carrier aircraft. If a pilot needs to make an immediate return to ship after a catapult launch they need a way to lower the aircraft weight.
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STT757
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:51 pm

On the West Coast the Navy has Lemoore and Fallon, which are way away from civilian encroachment. They need to find similar space on the East coast.
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LMP737
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Oceana is going to need to be moved, it's not a great situation to have fighters on approach over condos and schools. Major air stations like Oceana need buffer zones, for noise and for safety. They're options out there, especially if there is another BRAC consolidation round.


Then the Dept of the Navy is going to have to close other bases as well. MCAS Miramar comes to mind. Along with the field at Naval Station Norfolk

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I don't see why PAX River wouldn't work. It's surrounded on three sides by water and has lots of open land that could be made into ramp/hangar space. Another option would be Lakehurst, lots of land to.


There's more to it than just the land around the base. If you were to move the entire east coast F-18 community to a place like Pax River you have to take into account things like housing, the local economy and schools. Can those three things absorb a large influx of people in a short amount of time. Assuming Pax River even has room for all those aircraft and supporting functions.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
On the West Coast the Navy has Lemoore and Fallon, which are way away from civilian encroachment. They need to find similar space on the East coast.


Good luck with that on the east coast.
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737tanker
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):
The BRAC committee was looking reactivating Cecil Field in Jacksonville, and relocating the Air wings from Oceana to Cecil field. This option may come up again in the next BRAC, either moving to Cecil field or realigning an AFB or MCAS in North Carolina (Cherry Point) , South Carolina (Beaufort) or Georgia (Moody AFB).




The last BRAC actually did vote to close Oceana and reopen Cecil. However the city of Jacksonville didn't want to give Cecil back to the Navy.
 
LMP737
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 20):
The last BRAC actually did vote to close Oceana and reopen Cecil. However the city of Jacksonville didn't want to give Cecil back to the Navy.

Kind of throws a wrench into the works.
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STT757
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 20):
The last BRAC actually did vote to close Oceana and reopen Cecil. However the city of Jacksonville didn't want to give Cecil back to the Navy.

I followed the last BRAC very closely, the local community didn't reject anything. Why on earth would a military friendly community like Jacksonville in a military friendly State like Florida say no to hosting the Atlantic fighter wings and the tens of thousands of jobs that would bring. That definitely did not happen, IIRC it was the Virginia delegation in Congress which begged and cried that they would control the sprawl.

Cecil Field, or another installation will be brought up during the next BRAC as a future home.
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HaveBlue
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:26 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 22):
I followed the last BRAC very closely, the local community didn't reject anything. Why on earth would a military friendly community like Jacksonville in a military friendly State like Florida say no to hosting the Atlantic fighter wings and the tens of thousands of jobs that would bring.

Good to hear, I was skeptical when I read Reply 20 as well and I don't remember ever hearing Jacksonville turn it down. Personally I would love to see Cecil get those wings.
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737tanker
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:16 am

This is from a 11/14/2006 USA Today article and it explains why Jacksonville turned down reopening NAS Cecil Field.

In an unusual twist to the latest BRAC ritual, Jacksonville voters last week said no to reopening a naval base. The plan was to move the East Coast's master jet base from Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach to Cecil Field, a Jacksonville base that closed in 1999.

Jacksonville welcomed the move at first. Then came concern over costs of moving the 21 businesses in a commerce center on the 17,000-acre site. There was pressure from landowners and developers who had bought land and residents who had settled nearby. The city said local governments would have to spend more than $200 million on new housing for the estimated 30,000 new jobs that would be created.

"That doesn't include local infrastructure to support the influx, and it doesn't include the required number of new schools," says Susie Wiles, spokeswoman for Jacksonville Mayor John Peyton. "Some 25,000 people have moved into what would be the encroachment zone around the field."

The city's turnabout riled residents who want the military back. An ugly and expensive fight ensued, including a media blitz. Proponents of returning naval operations to Cecil Field put the issue on last week's ballot. It was rejected by 60% of voters.
 
trav110
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:03 pm

Can the F-18 fly safely on one engine?
 
bohica
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 19):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
On the West Coast the Navy has Lemoore and Fallon, which are way away from civilian encroachment. They need to find similar space on the East coast.


Good luck with that on the east coast.

The US Navy wants to build a new airbase near Plymouth, NC which is about 100 miles southwest of Oceana. Obviously the residents in that area are opposed to it. The navy suspended the OLF study until 2014. I don't know it that is related to the opposition or not. Here is the website for the groups opposing OLF:
http://www.noolf.com/
 
Powerslide
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting trav110 (Reply 25):
Can the F-18 fly safely on one engine?

Yes. Assuming the airspeed is not very low and AOA is not too high, a fully fuelled F-18 can safely climb on one engine.
 
sprout5199
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 22):
Cecil Field, or another installation will be brought up during the next BRAC as a future home.

Does NAS JAX have the room? They should move a Carrier to Mayport and reopen Cecil Field.

Dan in Jupiter
 
LMP737
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:59 am

Quoting trav110 (Reply 25):
Can the F-18 fly safely on one engine?


The question to ask was the "good" engine affected by the failure of the other one.

Quoting bohica (Reply 26):
The US Navy wants to build a new airbase near Plymouth, NC which is about 100 miles southwest of Oceana. Obviously the residents in that area are opposed to it. The navy suspended the OLF study until 2014. I don't know it that is related to the opposition or not. Here is the website for the groups opposing OLF:


Say it were built, does not sound like it will, how long would it be before the base is surrounded like Oceana? A lot of bases start out isolated but gradually over time have homes and businesses all around it. I remember some of the older guys at Miramar saying that outside the north gate was nothing but scrub brush and coyotes.
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fxramper
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:57 am

A miracle no one was killed. Glad the Navy is doing the right thing and writing checks to those affected in the accident.
 
dragon6172
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RE: US Navy Jet Crashes In Residential Area

Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 29):
Say it were built, does not sound like it will, how long would it be before the base is surrounded like Oceana? A lot of bases start out isolated but gradually over time have homes and businesses all around it. I remember some of the older guys at Miramar saying that outside the north gate was nothing but scrub brush and coyotes.

Oceana was built on marsh land in the 40's, and now is surrounded. The apartment complex that was hit was built in the 1969, and even then the density around the base was not that much. I live in Va Bch, and am all for keeping Oceana here. Then again, I am not one of the folks who bought a house near the base.
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