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ramprat74
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Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Wed May 23, 2012 4:32 pm

First off, sorry about the blurry pic. This aircraft has been sitting down at the FBO for almost a week now. After looking at the database. It looks like the Dutch have 2 KDC-10's. Both of them show with a boom. This one didn't have the boom. I didn't catch the aircraft number. Does anybody know why a Dutch transport would be sitting idle at PDX for this long?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/finklejag/photo.jpg
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Wed May 23, 2012 8:02 pm

I can't help with the why but this would be T-255, a DC-10 which operates alongside our 2 KDC-10s. Apart from the normal military missions it's also regularly used for humanitarian missions.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
mcg
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Wed May 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1):
it's also regularly used for humanitarian missions.


Perhaps Portland is running low on beer and the RDAF has airlifted an emergency supply
   
 
ssteve
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Wed May 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting mcg (Reply 2):
Perhaps Portland is running low on beer and the RDAF has airlifted an emergency supply

Intel needed some new tools from ASML really really badly.
 
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larshjort
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Wed May 23, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1):
I can't help with the why but this would be T-255, a DC-10 which operates alongside our 2 KDC-10s. Apart from the normal military missions it's also regularly used for humanitarian missions.

Didn't knew The RNLAF had a plain DC-10. I remember seeing the KDC-10's doing touch and goes in AAL a few fridays in a row. A beautiful aircraft.

Quoting mcg (Reply 2):
RDAF

The largest aircraft the danish air force operates is a C-130   

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
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kanban
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Thu May 24, 2012 12:45 am

Portland has several world wide humanitarian agencies so it may be loading for one of them.
 
bennett123
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Thu May 24, 2012 6:15 am

I seem to recall that the RNLAF actually had 4 DC10's.

These were the 2 KDC10's, T255 and a spares ship.

Can anyone confirm this.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Thu May 24, 2012 6:15 am

It was still there when I came into work today. It was aircraft 255. It finally took off around 14:00.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Thu May 24, 2012 8:32 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 6):
I seem to recall that the RNLAF actually had 4 DC10's.

These were the 2 KDC10's, T255 and a spares ship.

Can anyone confirm this.

That is correct.

Quoting mcg (Reply 2):
RDAF

Not a common abbreviation for the Dutch AF, or a classic mistake:

Denmark - Danish - Copenhagen - Carlsberg
Netherlands (Holland) - Dutch - Amsterdam - Heineken

We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either  
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747classic
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Thu May 24, 2012 9:04 am

Here is a video (In Dutch) of the third RNLAF (KLU) DC10-30CF, with registration T255.

This is the first (certification) DC10 with the CUP (cockpit upgrade program) installed. This CUP will also be installed at the two RNLAF KDC10's and the 59 USAF KDC10 aircraft.

From elapsed time 2.18 minutes the upgraded cockpit is clearly visible .

See : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfvNvq7UZow

The aircraft (MSN 46987, L/N255, ex United) will be sold after the cockpit upgrade of the two KDC10's has been finished. (budget cuts) and will have been active for approx. 2 years. What a terrible waste of money.

[Edited 2012-05-24 02:07:25]
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NBGSkyGod
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Thu May 24, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either

Neither can we, but that another discussion.

Interesting though that it would be sitting for two weeks without a mission. Is it used only for RNLAF missions or is it available for NATO tasking as well?
Pilots are idots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
bennett123
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 6:51 am

ptrjong.

Do you have any details of the 4th aircraft.

Many thanks
 
ssteve
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 7:32 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either

I just met a merchant mariner who was absolutely insistent that Belgium was part of the Netherlands. So, sure-- confusion. I think maybe he wanted to know what the "low countries" were, because he kept asking what "the other" constituent of the Netherlands other than Belgium was. Maybe he was looking for Luxembourg? I suggested Flanders, and I couldn't remember Wallonia. Still no idea what he was after. Amusing nonetheless.
 
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 7:42 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 11):
Do you have any details of the 4th aircraft.

There ain't no 4th.

The RNLAF has only got three DC-10s. Two tankers and a normal one for use as cargo and troop transport.

The RNLAF bought three DC-10s from Martinair. They then leased them back to Martinair for a while until the planes could be converted into tankers. During this lease period Martinair crashed PH-MBN at Faro. It took a while, but eventually it was decided to buy another DC-10, this time from United. However, due to budget cuts, it was decided that the third DC-10 would not to go for the tanker conversion. It will get the cockpit update though.


Type --------------- Serial ------- C/N -------------- Former identity
DC-10-30CF ----- (T-218) ----- 46924/218 ----- PH-MBN, Martinair - crashed at Faro
KDC-10-30F ----- T-235 ------- 46956/235 ----- PH-MBP, Martinair
DC-10-30CF ----- T-255 ------- 46987/255 ----- N1858U, United
KDC-10-30F ----- T-264 ------- 46985/264 ----- PH-MBT, Martinair
Attamottamotta!
 
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747classic
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 8:52 am

AFAIK also a fourth DC-10-30CF was acquired for spare parts in 2006., see under Dec. 2006 news :
http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/misc/news.html

According several sources this is the sister-ship of T255 : T253 with MSN 46986 and L/N 253, prev. registration N1857U.
The aircraft is still stored at Marana (MZJ).

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Botterman Bram - AirTeamImages



See also : http://www.planespotters.net/Product...0&fleet=3061&fleetStatus=6
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 1:45 pm

I did some further research : (Most recent picture ???) T-253 (old registration N1857U visible) was still stored at Marana in May 2011.


Original uploaded by Savvas Garozis, for other sizes, see : http://www.flickr.com/photos/22331715@N06/6141336569/

Some other sources : http://www.airframes.org/reg/t253

Also : http://www.aerotransport.org/php/go.php and search : T-253
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 2:13 pm

Quoting 747classic (Reply 9):
The aircraft (MSN 46987, L/N255, ex United)

Then I worked this aircraft back in the day. Before UA converted the few DC-10-30's they had to cargo planes, they flew around the system as passenger planes. There was one 30 that already had a upper deck cargo door installed. I think UA bought this plane from World. It might of been N1857U.

[Edited 2012-05-25 07:15:39]
 
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747classic
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 3:39 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 16):
I think UA bought this plane from World. It might of been N1857U.

Correct, Both N1857U and N1858U have been bought by UA from World : http://www.planespotters.net/Product...53-Royal-Netherlands-Air-Force.php
http://www.planespotters.net/Product...55-Royal-Netherlands-Air-Force.php
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
bennett123
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 5:53 pm

Many thanks for your help.

It was T-253.

When they sell T-255, it might be a good idea to offload T-253 as well.

After all, the cockpit of the KDC10 will not match the DC10, and I suspect
that it will have been pretty thoroughly gutted by then.
 
mcg
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):
We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either

No confusion about the location of Denmark and Holland, but I should have paid a little more attention to the appropriate abbreviation for the Royal Netherlands Air Force.
 
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747classic
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Fri May 25, 2012 8:43 pm

The sale, next year, of T-255 is political motivated and IMO decided by no-no's with no technical expertise at all, after completion of a totally mis-managed modification program (5+ years).

But all costs of the very expensive modification of T-255 have already been paid for. The DC10 can be operated relative cheap in military cargo-operations for at least five years, till the next HMV is due.
The other two tankers can exclusively be used for "real tanker" operations and not used for transport operations.

However, no cargo airline can and will buy T-255, with it's unique (military) cockpit layout. So the remaining value will also be very low.......................
The only possible customer could be the USAF with a fleet of 59 KC10's , with the same cockpit.
Perhaps they want it for free.

T-253 can only be sold for scrap-value and can better be kept as a spare parts provider for the whole fleet. The only costs are the parking-fees at Marana.

[Edited 2012-05-25 14:02:25]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
Newark727
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Sat May 26, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting ptrjong (Reply 8):

We maken fun about American tourists who aren't sure in which country they are, but don't worry, I can't point out Wyoming on the map either  

It's the one that looks like a big rectangle.  
 
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9MMPQ
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Sat May 26, 2012 7:15 am

Never knew about the spare parts ship. That's what i like around here, there's always something knew to find out about.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
pdxswa
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Sun May 27, 2012 6:51 am

To all who are interested to know as to why T-255 was actually at PDX. First off their has been a lot of speculation that it came in to PDX because it was broken. Not entirely true. It came in to pick up some UAV's to take back to the Netherlands. While it was waiting to pick up the UAV's. It broke and parts had to be flown in from the Netherlands. So while it was waiting for the UAV's it was fixed. UAV's loaded up and it left !  Smile

[Edited 2012-05-26 23:54:33]
 
columba
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Tue May 29, 2012 11:10 am

Would love to see these Dc 10s being replaced with KLMs MD 11s  
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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747classic
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Tue May 29, 2012 1:14 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 24):
Would love to see these Dc 10s being replaced with KLMs MD 11s

Why would you want to created another subtype. The Dutch defense budget is already very thight, so another try to "invent the wheel" will never happen, seen the extremely high modification cost for a tanker version of the MD11.
The present 2 KDC10's are almost equivalent to the 59 USAF KC-10's.
Small differences are the operating weights and the remote controlled refueling booms of the two Dutch aircraft.
After all (59+2+1= 62) aircraft have received the CUP modification, also the cockpit instruments spare parts pool is more efficient for the Dutch aircraft.

[Edited 2012-05-29 06:15:45]
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
columba
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Tue May 29, 2012 5:26 pm

Don´t get me wrong I don´t want to see the KD 10s ago but if one day they have to go, then please being replaced by MD 11s  
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: Dutch KDC-10 Idle At Portland Oregon

Wed May 30, 2012 11:51 am

Quoting columba (Reply 11):
Don´t get me wrong I don´t want to see the KD 10s ago but if one day they have to go, then please being replaced by MD 11s

The KDC-10's barely survived the latest budget cuts. I suspect the end of Dutch in-flight refueling when the KDC-10's are taken out of use.

Cheers!   
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