yvphx
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Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:46 am

I was watching a news segment about possible UFO sightings in the Denver, CO area. The story was about if FAA saw this on their screens As I was watching, they showed a radar blip at 2:17 which in the center of the screen it shows "AIR 1" as an aircraft identifier. IT appears as though this was file footage, because the runway picture does not line up with DEN, maybe ATL?

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#...13/co-ufo-sightings-in-denver.kdvr

I checked Wikipedia, and it said the owner of "AIR" Air lift International which ceased operations in 1999

Is this Air Force 1? What does AF1 look like on radar screens? This was just something I saw that stood out like a sore thumb to me.

Any info would help!

I do not have a date the image was filmed, but it was added to CNN on Nov 13, 2012.
 
sparky35805
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:50 am

There was an Air 1 based in STL in the mid 80s flying 727s.They didnt last long,
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CaptSkibi
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:22 am

Air Force 1 would certainly show up on ATC radar, as it's not stealth. It's just blocked on all sites that show radar tracking. If you tune in VHF, you'd be able to hear it, too.

ATC has special rules for handling Air Force 1, such as not ever using the Heavy designation regardless of aircraft type. It also must be handled by a supervisor, presumably to eliminate errors.
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Web500sjc
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:55 am

Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 2):
It also must be handled by a supervisor, presumably to eliminate errors.


So the rest of us a cannon fodder who can be handled by those a bit more error prone?

i men i realize whenever AF1 goes into an airport, th Airport is essentially shut down, but they really have to have a supervisor control AF1 when any of the people who normally work the position should be more than capable?
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as739x
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:01 am

There is no 3 letter code for AF1. On the radar it will only show as a 4 number squawk code. So the AIR1 you saw would have been some other operator.
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LONGisland89
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 2):
It also must be handled by a supervisor

Air Force One can be worked by regular rank and file controllers. Naturally, several people including a supervisor will be standing behind him/her.

I'm not sure if Air Force One is treated differently in the real world as far as datablocks go, but at the academy, we use the standard prefixes for military aircraft. (ex. "A" for 'Air Force', "VV" for 'Navy', "R" for 'Army' etc.) Using this logic Air Force One would appear as "A1" in a datablock.
 
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Moose135
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting CaptSkibi (Reply 2):
ATC has special rules for handling Air Force 1, such as not ever using the Heavy designation regardless of aircraft type.

I've seen them fly into JFK on a many occasions with the VC-25, and whenever I was listening on the scanner, both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.
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LONGisland89
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:30 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.

That's a no-no. The 7110 states not to use heavy.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:37 am

Quoting yvphx (Thread starter):
I checked Wikipedia, and it said the owner of "AIR" Air lift International which ceased operations in 1999

Is this Air Force 1? What does AF1 look like on radar screens? This was just something I saw that stood out like a sore thumb to me.

Any info would help!

I do not have a date the image was filmed, but it was added to CNN on Nov 13, 2012.

Volusia County Sheriff (Daytona Beach) helicopters used to use the call sign Air 1. I think a Medical Helicopter company also uses that call sign in Florida. This might have been a Medivac chopper or Sheriff helicopter
 
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CaptSkibi
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 5):
Air Force One can be worked by regular rank and file controllers. Naturally, several people including a supervisor will be standing behind him/her.

This must be what I was thinking of LI. I knew there was something to do with a supervisor. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Edited 2012-11-13 20:45:50]
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:51 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):
I've seen them fly into JFK on a many occasions with the VC-25, and whenever I was listening on the scanner, both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.



Sorry, but the U.S. controller workforce and supervisors have been weal trained in the use of the AF1 call sign.............in whatever type of aircraft the POTUS is flying. The phrase "HEAVY" is not supposed to be used regardless of the aircraft type.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 8):
Volusia County Sheriff (Daytona Beach) helicopters used to use the call sign Air 1. I think a Medical Helicopter company also uses that call sign in Florida



And your point? Locally used VFR call signs are simply that, locally used VFR call signs. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Moose135
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 10):
The phrase "HEAVY" is not supposed to be used regardless of the aircraft type.

That may be true, and it did sound odd to hear, but I've heard it on more than one occasion.
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IAHFLYR
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:12 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 11):
That may be true, and it did sound odd to hear, but I've heard it on more than one occasion.



If so then the facility who has controllers doing that should be educated to the correct procedures and phraseology.
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F9Fan
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:30 am

Was their another plane nearby? I know they like to clear the airspace around AF1, and they also like to fly its twin with it both for security and a backup.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:34 am

Quoting F9Fan (Reply 13):
Was their another plane nearby? I know they like to clear the airspace around AF1, and they also like to fly its twin with it both for security and a backup.

What twin might that be?
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dirtyfrankd
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:48 am

Can someone explain why ATC is not supposed to use the "heavy" designation when talking to Air Force One? I'm just curious...
 
rwessel
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:22 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
Quoting F9Fan (Reply 13):
Was their another plane nearby? I know they like to clear the airspace around AF1, and they also like to fly its twin with it both for security and a backup.

What twin might that be?

There are two VC-25As, and half a dozen C-32s.
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:04 pm

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 15):
Can someone explain why ATC is not supposed to use the "heavy" designation when talking to Air Force One? I'm just curious...

To avoid being able to identify what type of aircraft it is. Since AF1 can be any aircraft in the USAF inventory not always a the VC-25 or other heavy type aircraft.
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Moose135
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:26 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
If so then the facility who has controllers doing that should be educated to the correct procedures and phraseology.

As well as the flight crew, as I've heard them use it too.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:12 pm

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 7):
Quoting moose135 (Reply 6):both tower and the flight crew used "Air Force 1 Heavy" as a call sign.
That's a no-no. The 7110 states not to use heavy.

Correct. No matter what airplane type is used for AF-1, it has blocked airspace all around it, that is in excess of any requirement for following a heavy jet. So, the "Heavy" designation attached to the call sign is not needed.
 
jgarrido
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:31 pm

I'm not sure if the designator for air force 1 is public information or not so I won't share what it is, but it's *not* AIR1.
 
737tanker
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:31 am

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 14):
What twin might that be?


There are 2 identical VC-25s that POTUS will normally use as AF-1. When POTUS travels the 2nd VC-25 is deployed as well. Recently when President Obama was at Ft Bliss, TX (near ELP) I saw the other VC-25 at ABQ parked on the ramp of Kirtland AFB.
 
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Dano1977
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):

Apart from George W Bush's presidential trip to either Iraq or Afghanistan, where they passed off the 747 as a business jet.
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n92r03
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:34 pm

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 21):
When POTUS travels the 2nd VC-25 is deployed as well.

Not true. Only overseas trips get both VC-25's and a slew of others as well. I'm not saying you did not see both, but both do not "always" travel together.
 
pygmalion
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:38 pm

It is true though that 3 Marine helicopters fly when ever the POTUS is flying in Marine 1. Marine 1 and two more identical helicopters. They fly in formation and its not until Marine 1 lands on the lawn that you can tell which one is actually Marine One.
 
737tanker
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RE: Air Force 1 On Radar; Accident?

Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 23):
Not true. Only overseas trips get both VC-25's and a slew of others as well. I'm not saying you did not see both, but both do not "always" travel together.


I never said that they were together. What I said was that when President Obama was at Ft Bliss TX, next door to ELP, I saw the 2nd VC-25 at Kirkland AFB, which is Albuquerque NM. So even domestically both VC-25s will leave Andrews. One, as AF1, will carry POTUS to his destination and the other will be a relatively short flight away.

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