PHX787
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:27 am

I put this here because I know this will descend to political discussion.

Fox reported to my phone's breaking news app that N Korea launched the Lode-Star 3 rocket (I'm not going to attempt to write out the korean) about 40 minutes ago. No further word on how it ended up.



Guys, this happens so often these days.   What can be done? What does this imply? If they are serious about a satellite program, then why be so secretive about it?
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Braniff747SP
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
If they are serious about a satellite program, then why be so secretive about it?

What isn't secretive in the country?
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iFlyLOTs
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What can be done?

More sanctions that seem to work oh so well.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What does this imply?

That the North isn't going to stop shooting these rockets no matter what we do with the sanctions.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
If they are serious about a satellite program, then why be so secretive about it?

They're a secretive nation. Same thing with Iran and their nuclear program, why keep it a secret if it really is just for civilian energy use?
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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DeltaMD90
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:41 am

Meh, NK is just a giant attention whore, nothing more. IMing my friend in SK now, gonna ask him about it...
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Mir
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
No further word on how it ended up.

If it worked, that'll be the first time in a number of tests.

Of course, we won't be able to know about that until the US or Japan or South Korea comment, since the North Koreans are going to say it went off spectacularly.

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TheCol
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:00 am

No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
flymia
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:16 am

I read about them preparing to launch a rocket a few days ago. Don't think this was not anticipated unless the type of rocket is different than they thought.
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iFlyLOTs
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
Don't think this was not anticipated unless the type of rocket is different than they thought.

It just wasn't anticipated this soon because there's satellite images of them replacing the first stage just a few days ago. The world was thinking it was going to be more of a late December launch.
"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
 
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Dreadnought
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:37 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
What can be done?

Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/THAAD_Launcher.jpg
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NoUFO
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:45 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
I read about them preparing to launch a rocket a few days ago. Don't think this was not anticipated unless the type of rocket is different than they thought.

The type of rocket is the same and many experts said that the launch would be around Dec. 17. But then NK announced to delay the launch due to "various technical problems", and satellite images seemed to confirm it. And now they launch it before Dec. 17. Some intelligence officers will have a hard time the next days.

[Edited 2012-12-11 19:21:08]
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smittyone
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:21 am

Maybe work on electricity first...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/images/dprk-dmsp-dark.jpg
 
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Aesma
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:27 am

Well the US also launched something into space today and are pretty secretive about it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PHX787
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
What isn't secretive in the country?

True   

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 2):
More sanctions that seem to work oh so well.

We need to figure out how to actually make sanctions work.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Meh, NK is just a giant attention whore

Ain't that the truth.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 5):
Looks like it got farther than that last 2.

That's what I heard. Went over Okinawa. Can radar track objects that enter into the upper atmosphere?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
Well the US also launched something into space today and are pretty secretive about it.

Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.
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Braniff747SP
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:18 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations

Who is? As far as I know, the United States is the only nation to have ever used a nuclear device against another...
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jetblueguy22
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:18 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
We need to figure out how to actually make sanctions work.

The only way is if China and Russia cut the umbilical cord. Which is not going to happen anytime soon.

Well if they truly got something into orbit besides a golf ball I'll be shocked. The last two were a joke and chances are the next launch will be poor as well. They just don't have the resources to provide consistent safe launches. I know they want to be some all powerful nation, but couldn't the money spent on all of these launches and the previous ones gone somewhere better, say feeding their own people?
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PHX787
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
The only way is if China and Russia cut the umbilical cord. Which is not going to happen anytime soon.

What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
Well if they truly got something into orbit besides a golf ball I'll be shocked. The last two were a joke and chances are the next launch will be poor as well. They just don't have the resources to provide consistent safe launches. I know they want to be some all powerful nation, but couldn't the money spent on all of these launches and the previous ones gone somewhere better, say feeding their own people?

You're telling me.....anyone got more information on how successful this was?
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jetblueguy22
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

They see            . North Korea is truly cut off from the rest of the world. They still need resources. Why not be the ones to profit from that?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
You're telling me.....anyone got more information on how successful this was?

I just saw on twitter that NORAD is reporting they launched an "object" into orbit. They aren't saying exactly what it is thought. Perhaps a North Korean copy of Sputnik? 
Blue
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
iFlyLOTs
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:45 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

Russia was right there with the west on the last few launches telling them not to. China says that they're troubled but that's all that happens with that.

My theory on those two countries and their "support" is that if there ever was a war you couldn't have something like that happened in Vietnam where people would go through other countries, and as the fighting would go further and further North, you would be pushing people into China and Russia, they don't want to have to deal with refugees and fighting on their sides of the border. But again this is just what I think, I hope there is someone else who could give us a better reason.
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rwessel
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:07 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

So an act of war? You really want to go there? Even if you don't care about North Koreans, are you willing to sacrifice a million South Koreans? You may want to remember that those folks are our friends. Perhaps the policy of containing the DPRK until it collapses of its own accord might not be so bad? We've waited six decades, why not a couple more?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

The Russian aren't happy at the moment, nor are the Chinese (although they're being very low key about that). The very last thing the Chinese want is for the North to provoke an actual war on the peninsula. Longer term, the Chinese' main concern is actually letting the DPRK collapse - they assume they'll have millions of refugees crossing the Yalu, and other trouble on their border. And once *that's* all resolved, they've have the ROK and the US right on their border. So long as the North Koreans keep themselves to mostly annoying South Korea, Japan and the United States, and the regime remains stable, the Chinese avoid a bunch of problems. Propping up an unsavory regime for their own benefit is hardly an uncommon action by nations...
 
kpitrrat
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:12 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

Seems to be a pretty good idea to me. Aren't the South and North still "technically" at war just in the midst of some type of cease fire (not sure of the appropriate term).

Every time they decide to shoot a rocket blow it out of the sky, I'd say thats a legitimate reason to fire at it, the south can say they do not know what its for and pseuo legitimize its destruction?

Also I have heard that they have been aiming these rockets on a path that takes it close to coming over, or actually crossing over, Japan. Wouldn't that justify their destruction alone, obviously, we would need Japanese cooperation but still.
 
MadameConcorde
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:18 am

Shouldn't this thread be in the Military Av./Space forum?

From U.S. source: NK launched "an object" into orbit

NORAD: NKorea appears to have orbited 'an object'
WASHINGTON (AP) — The North American Aerospace Defense Command says North Korea appears to have launched "an object" into Earth orbit, but neither the missile used nor debris from the launch are a threat to North America.
NORAD officials said U.S. missile warning systems detected and tracked the launch at 7:49 p.m. EST Tuesday. The missile was tracked in a southerly direction.

read more:
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/N...have-orbited-an-object-4110164.php

- Launch time 00:49:46 UTC
- Satellite released at T+9:27 (00:59:13 UTC)
- Orbit parameters 499.7 x 584.18 km x 97.4°, T=95 min 29 sec (note that this seems to fit best with NORAD object 39027/2012-072B)

Supposed to be 072A, not B. It is at 495 x 588 km.
Could be 3 "objects" they placed into orbit.
http://www.space.com/18867-north-korea-rocket-launch-satellite.html

Third NK launch infographics
http://www.space.com/15006-north-kor...a-3-rocket-launch-infographic.html

  
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Mortyman
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:42 am

EU is considering harder sanctions against North Korea together with it's allies, says EU's chief of foreign affairs Catherine Ashton

In Norwegian:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ur...med-rakettoppskytning-7067979.html
 
MadameConcorde
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:59 am

The X-37B was launched about same timing. I wonder if there is any correlation between the two launches and if X-37B can "see" and watch the NK orbital object(s)?

They claim it's a weather satellite. It seems to have a polar orbit, probably sun-synchronous. Basically, three kinds of satellites use that sort of orbit; meteorological, mapping, and spy satellites. The former in order to monitor things like global temperature and improve weather forecast modeling, the latter two because it keeps the shadow angles the same on each pass and provides global coverage. I seriously doubt the north koreans put a satellite up there to check for global warming or see if polar bears are stranded on ice floats.

  
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
flipdewaf
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:47 am

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
Easy. We install THAAD ABM systems in S. Korea, and whenever N. Korea launches a rocket, we take the opportunity to do a live-fire drill and shoot it down. We'll get good practice and and we won't even have to pay for the targets.

I can imagine the headline now, "65 dead in Seoul suburb as US plays wargames against weather satelite"

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.

Really?

Fred
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scbriml
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
We need to figure out how to actually make sanctions work.

They don't and arguably never have. For example, 50 years of sanctions against Cuba has achieved nothing.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.

Epic history fail.   
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justinlee
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

A poor, corrupt, funny DPRK is far better than a strong, rich, Republic of Korea with US Army in it. That's why although most of the Chinese see DPRK as a joke but we still need to support it anyway. Besides, these support is not for free. Chinese companies get 1 seaport, 2 Free Economy Zones and several mines in DPRK.
 
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Revelation
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
The only way is if China and Russia cut the umbilical cord. Which is not going to happen anytime soon.

What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

It's still about global power and influence. It's still the same reason why both still support Assad in Syria, and why they use their veto in the UN Security Council to protect Iran. They still want various unaligned entities to know they are the ones to go to when they don't like the policies of the bad old Western Powers.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 18):
So an act of war? You really want to go there? Even if you don't care about North Koreans, are you willing to sacrifice a million South Koreans? You may want to remember that those folks are our friends. Perhaps the policy of containing the DPRK until it collapses of its own accord might not be so bad? We've waited six decades, why not a couple more?

Interesting how so many hated that policy during the Cold War, until it worked.

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 23):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.

Really?

Let's not go down that rat hole.
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PHX787
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 21):
EU is considering harder sanctions against North Korea together with it's allies, says EU's chief of foreign affairs Catherine Ashton
Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
They don't and arguably never have. For example, 50 years of sanctions against Cuba has achieved nothing.

I too am starting to question what this will do

Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
Epic history fail.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 26):
Let's not go down that rat hole.

I'm not talking about Hiroshima/Nagasaki or Cold War. I'm talking about modern-day America
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 24):
For example, 50 years of sanctions against Cuba has achieved nothing.

And neither did the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Next suggestion?

In reality, short of military intervention, there's not much one can do to another nation other than refusing to trade with them.
Inspiration, move me brightly! Light the song with sense and color.
Hold away despair, more than this I will not ask.
Faced with mysteries dark and vast, statements just seem vain at last.
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jetblueguy22
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Well that didn't take long. Apparently the satellite is spinning out of control. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...t-of-control-us-officials-say?lite
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Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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EA CO AS
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting justinlee (Reply 25):

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 15):
What do they see in supporting such a regime? I just don't get it. Neither nation is communist anymore (despite the PRC's name) and Russia has reportedly had diplomatic run-ins with DPRK in the past....

A poor, corrupt, funny DPRK is far better than a strong, rich, Republic of Korea with US Army in it.

"Far better" you say? How? Be specific.

Let an average citizen from the DPRK enjoy the average standard of living found in South Korea for a week and then ask them which place is far better.
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iFlyLOTs
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 29):
Well that didn't take long. Apparently the satellite is spinning out of control.

Can't really say I'm surprised by that.. Horay?

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 30):
"Far better" you say? How? Be specific.

Well he's speaking from a Chinese perspective, which I could very well see being the reason. If the North falls to the South the U.S. has their sphere of influence that much closer to their borders
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Oroka
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting justinlee (Reply 25):
A poor, corrupt, funny DPRK is far better than a strong, rich, Republic of Korea with US Army in it.

A dictatorship who rules a starving country (ie funny) is better than a stable first world country because of the presence of 28 500 foreign troops there to help protect the country?

wow.
 
justinlee
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 32):
A dictatorship who rules a starving country (ie funny) is better than a stable first world country because of the presence of 28 500 foreign troops there to help protect the country?

That's a tricky part of China's foreign policy. Among the dangerous neighbors, which I guess countries like Canada don't have   , we need to choose the less dangerous ones to fight against the most dangerous ones. That's why China supports DPRK, Pakistan, or Myanmar. Even DPRK is full of uncertainty, one thing is certain, it will not attack China anyway.

ROK, not like what you think, has one of the largest army in the world. It has 650,000 active military personnel, which ranks the 6th in the world. The military service is mandatory for every young man and it keeps one of the highest Military population to Total population ratio.

Besides, ROK has a territory claim for China's Changbai Mountain region (or Baekdu Mountain in Korea). I don't see anything better if China borders ROK. For the border disputes, see the wiki here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekdu_Mountain#Border_disputes

[Edited 2012-12-12 17:47:05]
 
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EA CO AS
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:07 am

Quoting justinlee (Reply 33):
Quoting Oroka (Reply 32):A dictatorship who rules a starving country (ie funny) is better than a stable first world country because of the presence of 28 500 foreign troops there to help protect the country?


That's a tricky part of China's foreign policy. Among the dangerous neighbors, which I guess countries like Canada don't have , we need to choose the less dangerous ones to fight against the most dangerous ones. That's why China supports DPRK, Pakistan, or Myanmar. Even DPRK is full of uncertainty, one thing is certain, it will not attack China anyway.

Unless I'm misreading this, you're saying aligning with a "less dangerous" neighbor like the DPRK is better than the "most dangerous" neighbor.

Who precisely is China's most dangerous neighbor, and in what manner are they dangerous?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
justinlee
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:21 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34):
Unless I'm misreading this, you're saying aligning with a "less dangerous" neighbor like the DPRK is better than the "most dangerous" neighbor.

Who precisely is China's most dangerous neighbor, and in what manner are they dangerous?

I would say Japan or India. Japan, hey, we hate each other and we may even, sadly, go to war for a piece of rock in the middle of nowhere (say Diaoyu Island in the recent case).

India, yeahhh, we have 125,000 sq kilometers (the size of Mississippi) of border dispute and we went to war for this region in 1962. What's more, both countries own nuclear weapon now.

Anyway, we are dangerous neighbors for each other  
 
JoeCanuck
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 am

So let me get this straight; The US and other countries launch thousands of 'objects', (many of them strictly military), on essentially upgraded ICBM's and that's just fine, but N.Korea finally gets something into orbit and the world has conniption fits.

All of the countries whining about N.Korea have littered space with crap. More hypocritical 'do as I say, not as I do' diplomacy for the rest of the world.

Much ado about nothing.
What the...?
 
india1
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:22 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 34):
That's a tricky part of China's foreign policy. Among the dangerous neighbors, which I guess countries like Canada don't have   , we need to choose the less dangerous ones to fight against the most dangerous ones. That's why China supports DPRK, Pakistan, or Myanmar. Even DPRK is full of uncertainty, one thing is certain, it will not attack China anyway.

Hey Justin, do you seriously believe that a democratic, progressive, secular India is "more dangerous" to you than a fundamentalist Pakistan, in the long run? Sure, we're competing across the globe, we occasionally step on each others' toes, throw words at each other, have had a nasty war in '62 (which still causes us grief 50 yrs on), but come on....! We're not land grabbers, we're not harbouring terrorists, we're non threatening, except in business perhaps!

With a combined population of 2.7B+, neither of us is going to make the other disappear, so let's not even dream about it! The common enemy today is vastly different from what it was even a generation ago, and I think the world powers need to have a common vision. Yeah, wishful thinking, i know...........
 
PHX787
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:06 am

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 29):
Well that didn't take long. Apparently the satellite is spinning out of control. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...?lite

LOL This is not surprising...better hope it doesn't impact any land
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india1
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:33 am

@ PHX - there are conflicting reports, as you can see below. Its orbiting alright, but whether its functioning is a question

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...llite-orbits-normally-3325055.html
 
justinlee
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting india1 (Reply 37):
Hey Justin, do you seriously believe that a democratic, progressive, secular India is "more dangerous" to you than a fundamentalist Pakistan, in the long run? Sure, we're competing across the globe, we occasionally step on each others' toes, throw words at each other, have had a nasty war in '62 (which still causes us grief 50 yrs on), but come on....! We're not land grabbers, we're not harbouring terrorists, we're non threatening, except in business perhaps!

Yeah, I totally agree with you. What I said above is what the Chinese government think about. I just want to explain why they support some of the most corrupt and dangerous countries in the world. Been to India several times for business, I personally think we have more in common than difference.

The thing is that, political correctness is more important than realism in China. For example, China and Japan have such a strong economic connection, but a little rock in the ocean will still push the relationship over the edge. This is because anyone who makes a concession will be seen as Capitulators. The dispute will go into a one-way road. The same as India.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6459
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 17):
My theory on those two countries and their "support" is that if there ever was a war you couldn't have something like that happened in Vietnam where people would go through other countries, and as the fighting would go further and further North, you would be pushing people into China and Russia, they don't want to have to deal with refugees and fighting on their sides of the border. But again this is just what I think, I hope there is someone else who could give us a better reason.

I'm sure China would prefer a less crazy North Korea... in fact, they probably don't mind NK being absorbed to SK... the only problem is that it would bankrupt SK. China has the luxury of saying to NK, do too many funny things to us and we can squash you in a whiff. SK, wants a good NK, as buffer between it an China, SK can't say they prefer China taking over NK because then Japan would throw a fit. NK is a parasite China has to support unfortunately (at least China's trade with SK and Japan probably brings them more money than they handout to NK) for the sake of trade with SK and Japan. For Russia, anything that saps China but doesn't harm China, is good... while Japan continues to be the largest operating ground for NK's intelligence service (while my country, is rumoured to be NK Intelligence Service's largest training ground *sigh*).

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 22):
Basically, three kinds of satellites use that sort of orbit; meteorological, mapping, and spy satellites.

Add the Iridium satellite network in that orbit...

Quoting justinlee (Reply 33):
ROK, not like what you think, has one of the largest army in the world. It has 650,000 active military personnel, which ranks the 6th in the world. The military service is mandatory for every young man and it keeps one of the highest Military population to Total population ratio.

They got 650,000 active military personnel because they got 3 generation of nutcases leading the buffer country between them and your country...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
justinlee
Posts: 323
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 41):
They got 650,000 active military personnel because they got 3 generation of nutcases leading the buffer country between them and your country...

Part of. Actually South Korea was basically ruled by military regime 1949-1987.
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7881
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:19 am

Quoting india1 (Reply 39):
@ PHX - there are conflicting reports, as you can see below. Its orbiting alright, but whether its functioning is a question

Looks like S. Korea is reporting that the satallite is orbiting normally....

Quoting justinlee (Reply 42):
Part of. Actually South Korea was basically ruled by military regime 1949-1987.

Well I caution your dates there, they started to give more freedoms, for lack of better words, towards the 80s.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
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bikerthai
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 43):

Quoting justinlee (Reply 42):
Part of. Actually South Korea was basically ruled by military regime 1949-1987.

Well I caution your dates there, they started to give more freedoms, for lack of better words, towards the 80s.

And this is a warning to all ruling military regime.

The South Korean military junta brought the South Korean economy into the 20th century. It gave it's people prosperity, which in turn brought it's down fall.

Better to keep your people in the dark and maintain your authority longer  . I guess the North Korean leadership has learned that lesson well.   

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
justinlee
Posts: 323
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 44):
Better to keep your people in the dark and maintain your authority longer  . I guess the North Korean leadership has learned that lesson well.   

That's a sad truth. I think China is on the same way.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9201
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:40 pm

NK to launch more "satellites" according to The Hindustan News

N Korea holds mass rally, vows more launches

Hundreds of thousands of North Koreans held a mass rally on Friday to celebrate the nuclear-armed state's rocket launch, as its youthful leader vowed new launches in defiance of US-led outrage.
Days before his first anniversary in charge of the isolated country, Kim Jong-Un upheld North Korea's "unshakable stand" that the rocket programme will continue despite UN condemnation and calls for new sanctions.
...
Unbowed, Kim stressed the need "to launch satellites in the future... to develop the country's science, technology and economy", according to the North's official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).

more:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-...more-launches/Article1-972620.aspx

   Wow!
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
PHX787
Topic Author
Posts: 7881
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North Korea Launches Rocket

Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:01 am

Quoting justinlee (Reply 45):
. I think China is on the same way.

Well again I caution this. China's in different shoes. From a Maoist regime to "socialism with Chinese characteristics" to "state-controlled capitalism."

One thinks that democracy is the only thing that can come next, but so as long as the PRC is releasing 5-year plans, the governmental economy is still going to be state-controlled.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Tupolev160
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:07 pm

North Korea Launches Rocket

Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 21):

Haha, ridiculous, there is not any possible trade between North Korea and the EU, just hilarious... The collapsing EU is closing on the entire world on them with their sanctions and unilateral treaties, are they blind to see that they need the world more than it needs them.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 12):
Well we're not prone to launching nukes to other nations....or at least threatening to.PHX. NRT. CVG.

  

Wow, this must be a joke. Answer for five points: tell me the name of the only country who killed hundreds of thousands of people indiscriminately with nuclear weapons and conducted a nuclear test last week?

a) North Korea
b) Russia
c) Japan
d) USA
e) Iran

   The answer is: ____   

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 36):

  

Finally some sane reasoning in here.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
 
bigjku
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:51 pm

North Korea Launches Rocket

Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 36):
So let me get this straight; The US and other countries launch thousands of 'objects', (many of them strictly military), on essentially upgraded ICBM's and that's just fine, but N.Korea finally gets something into orbit and the world has conniption fits.

All of the countries whining about N.Korea have littered space with crap. More hypocritical 'do as I say, not as I do' diplomacy for the rest of the world.

Much ado about nothing.

I don't really get too worked up about it. It is a minor technical achievement in these days but there are very good reasons for a lot of nations to worry about it.

US- General instability in the region that no one wants but I think US concerns are mostly driven by its allies. The US has to look like it cares because if it doesn't than its allies in the region who do care would not be happy. IIRC on the day of the launch the US reaction was really pretty mild and seemed to be more along the lines of not letting NK think it is too important because of this.

China- I actually think this kind of crap probably is more of a threat to China than anyone else. What China does not want or need is to see Japan or South Korea arming themselves in kind in an effort to deter North Korea. Both South Korea and Japan could pretty easily put nuclear weapons on ballistic launchers in short order if they perceive a North Korean threat and China hardly wants to see that happen.

Japan & South Korea- I think they have to act upset to get China and the US to deal with the problem. On some level they are not happy. If North Korea actually deployed a broad capability it may push them to further arm themselves. But the reaction to this one event is much more to get the US a little bit and China for the most part to keep control of the loons in NK.

This is just a big diplomatic game being played really. The reactions are predictable and boring honestly. North Korean leadership acts out to try and gain some more international concessions and for internal political reasons. Everyone responds as we know they will respond and the world keeps moving. I don't for a second think China will let North Korea evolve a real capability because they don't want to see Japan or South Korea develop a retaliatory capability.

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 48):
Wow, this must be a joke. Answer for five points: tell me the name of the only country who killed hundreds of thousands of people indiscriminately with nuclear weapons and conducted a nuclear test last week?

a) North Korea
b) Russia
c) Japan
d) USA
e) Iran

Debating the morality of the attacks on Japan would really necessitate everyone recognizing that it was a much different time in a much different conflict with a vastly different understanding of exactly what the weapon system being employed was. The fact of the matter is that in WWII there is not a single major combatant that would have not dropped those weapons on the enemy the second it was able to do so. In a war full of many horrors it was just one of them and was seen as far less unique at that time. People think differently now.

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