g38
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Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:44 am

I found this while browsing YouTube and knew I had to share it.

The video is of a Saab Viggen landing. Once the aircraft lands, the pilot selects full reverse thrust, using this to turn the aircraft 180 degrees on the runway (I'm pretty sure he's skidding the nose wheel when he does this), and then he take off again in the opposite direction. The whole procedure take only 1 minute.... truly amazing!!!


I've never heard of other aircraft being able to do this, but I'd love to be proved wrong.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fye_2AipFTA
 
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Dreadnought
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:07 am

Quoting g38 (Thread starter):
Once the aircraft lands, the pilot selects full reverse thrust, using this to turn the aircraft 180 degrees on the runway (I'm pretty sure he's skidding the nose wheel when he does this), and then he take off again in the opposite direction.

Looking at related videos, it seems it was a common stunt at airshows with the Viggen.
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agill
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:07 pm

Yes it was a normal routine at air shows. Really miss the Viggen, it was a very striking plane. Especially in the green camo.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:40 pm

Isn't the video slightly accelerated?

Impressive feature, however.
I can't think of any other fighters fitted with reversers. Then again not every fighter is designed to operate from public highways...
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celestar
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:20 am

How good in terms of combat maneuverability is Viggen?
I think it is very capable from a air-ground attack role but not sure about air-to-air?
 
Legs
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:18 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 3):
other fighters fitted with reversers.

Probably not a fighter, but the Tornado has bucket style reversers fitted. Not sure if a u-turn was part of their repertoire, however.
 
g38
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting celestar (Reply 4):
.
How good in terms of combat maneuverability is Viggen?
I think it is very capable from a air-ground attack role but not sure about air-to-air?


Extremely! The Viggen was (is... there's actually still one flying) extremely agile. Thanks to the canards it was agile while still being rather fast due to the delta wing design.

In addition I seem to recall reading that due to some sort of honeycomb structure in the wings it could handle up to 11Gs (as if the pilot could   )

A shot of the sole airworthy example showing the design of the wings:


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Photo © Stephane Pichard - stanakshot

 
celestar
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:48 pm

Well then, is there a good reason why they are being retired? Replaced by Grippen, I think.
Pardon my ignorance, for a neutral country like Sweden, their unique weapon should serve them for a long time provided they are well maintained.
 
g38
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:44 pm

Simple. The Gripen is more versatile.

The Gripen is more of a modern multirole fighter. After all the Viggen was designed in the late '60s.

The Grippen can carry a wider array of weapons, and has much more advanced avionics/weapon systems allowing it to perform multiple missions in a single sortie.

The grippen also has a2a refueling capability, something the Viggen lacked. Its also quite a bit cheaper to operate.
 
celestar
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:42 am

Recently I am very fascinated by anything Swedish, may be it is because I am getting myself ready for a new Volvo V60!
Curious to know, apart from my net surfing, I cannot find any incident where modern Swedish fighter, Draken/Viggen/Gripen involved in an actual air-to-air combat. Is this true? Quite 'sad', never had a chance to see how well these Swedish birds actually performed!!
 
GST
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:10 am

Quoting celestar (Reply 9):

As I understand it Sweden was very careful in aurthorising arms exports only to countries that they thought could be trusted not to go on a military rampage through their neighbors. Therefore it is less likely that the owner of Swedish combat jets be the aggressor in a conflict and thus the likelihood of the jets seeing combat is lower. If the cold war had turned hot, many Swedish jets would have seen action though.
 
celestar
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:43 am

So, am I right to say, none of the Swedish air force or for that matter, the Swedish armed forces in general, has any actual combat experience per say. It is good about deterrence but any armed forces that lack actual combat experience or deployment is not healthy to put their training into actual test and refined upon them.
 
GST
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:09 pm

I don't know about calling any military unhealthy due to it not having seen combat in the service times of it's members. So long as sufficient investment is put into realistic training, you learn from the mistakes of others who do go to war, and up to scratch equipment you should be competative.

True there is not going to be anything like combat, but the rank and file of any military gets completely renewed in a fairly short timeframe. You don't have to be very many years without combat before only senior NCOs and higher ranking officers have truly smelled the cordite so to speak.
 
B777LRF
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:00 pm

The Swedish Air Force was part of the airborne operation over Libya in 2010. They dispatched a handful of Gripen's, which were used solely on reconnaissance and BDA missions. So while the SAF has seen 'action', they have yet to let loose a shot in anger so to speak.

Sweden is still a non-aligned country, with a long tradition of maintaining neutrality. Bit like Switzerland, really, but without the poncy guards at the Vatican. Also in contrast with Switzerland they have been adjusting their stance on neutrality rather more fundamentally, and have taken part in missions other than UN sanctioned peace keeping since the Balkan conflicts. Libya, however, was the first time the SAF took part in an war.
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larshjort
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting GST (Reply 12):
I don't know about calling any military unhealthy due to it not having seen combat in the service times of it's members. So long as sufficient investment is put into realistic training, you learn from the mistakes of others who do go to war, and up to scratch equipment you should be competative.

  
I would at any time prefer the air force of my country didn't have any combat experience.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 13):
Sweden is still a non-aligned country, with a long tradition of maintaining neutrality. Bit like Switzerland, really, but without the poncy guards at the Vatican. Also in contrast with Switzerland they have been adjusting their stance on neutrality rather more fundamentally, and have taken part in missions other than UN sanctioned peace keeping since the Balkan conflicts. Libya, however, was the first time the SAF took part in an war.

Libya was the second time after WWII the Swedish Air Force saw combat. During the Congo crisis in the early sixties they paricipated in the UN peacekeeping mission with a squadron of J29 Tunnan aircraft, and shot down several aircraft.

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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting GST (Reply 12):
So, am I right to say, none of the Swedish air force or for that matter, the Swedish armed forces in general, has any actual combat experience per say. It is good about deterrence but any armed forces that lack actual combat experience or deployment is not healthy to put their training into actual test and refined upon them.

Swedish army have a smaller force in Afghanistan, which is why it was
"necessary" for the government to purchase a bunch of Blackhawk helicopters.

The Navy however have been a bit more busy during 70's-90's by chasing
intruding submarines. Of which U137/S-363 is the most well known intrusion.

[Edited 2013-01-04 03:59:40]

[Edited 2013-01-04 04:00:28]
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TGIF
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 15):
The Navy however have been a bit more busy during 70's-90's by chasing
intruding submarines. Of which U137/S-363 is the most well known intrusion.

The Swedish navy has also been deployed more recently, to the Gulf of Aden chasing pirates. There was also talks by the opposition in Sweden about sending the navy to Libya during the Arab Spring instead on the Gripens, but luckily that didn't go through. They would have been able to contribute far less than the SwAF did.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 13):
The Swedish Air Force was part of the airborne operation over Libya in 2010. They dispatched a handful of Gripen's, which were used solely on reconnaissance and BDA missions. So while the SAF has seen 'action', they have yet to let loose a shot in anger so to speak.

They were also there to make sure the no-fly zone was in fact a no-fly zone. Photos of the Gripens participating show them fitted with both IRIS-T and AMRAAM. None fired though from what I heard.

As for the thrust reversers I guess the Gripen could achieve the desired stop distance as well as turn radius without having them fitted.
 
tommy767
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:30 pm

"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:00 pm

Quoting TGIF (Reply 16):
The Swedish navy has also been deployed more recently, to the Gulf of Aden chasing pirates.

yeah you're right, I forgot about that.

However currently the Swedish Armed Forces can't really afford to
undertake anything more then very small scale operations.

@tommy767 The Viggen really look great in green camo.

Also swafhf have a second Viggen, a SK37 undergoing renovation
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g38
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:48 pm

I had heard of this, but does anyone have any more info as the website doesnt provide any?






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celestar
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:37 pm

I have no issue believing how well train the Swedish armed forces are. However, is there any record of actual performance in mock combat with other air force? Did they ever participate Red Flag or something like that? Any record?
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting celestar (Reply 20):
I have no issue believing how well train the Swedish armed forces are. However, is there any record of actual performance in mock combat with other air force? Did they ever participate Red Flag or something like that? Any record?

Air force have participated i Red flag events with rumours of very good performance
although I am far from an expert in the matter. However I don't think any results are
available for regular public so I don't know if the rumours are true.

Also the Swedish submarine HMS Gotland were stationed in San Diego
for a while during exercises with the US Navy.

HMS Gotland did very well and did manage to sneak through the carrier defence group
to take close up pictures of the carrier which indicated that the carrier had been sunk.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
tommy767
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 18):
@tommy767 The Viggen really look great in green camo.

Had to post it. Much love to both Viggens. My 9-3 is the same blue color.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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moriarty
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:06 pm

I've seen the Viggen perform this up-close while doing my military service. A truly awesome sight I must say.The Viggen, as mentioned, did this on almost every airshow. Why? Because it can of course.  

The thrust reverse comes from a time when Swedens defense was designed to use road bases (ordinary roads prepared for airbase activities). In event of war, airbases could be abandoned and road bases spread across the country to be used instead. This called for a way to get the 16 tonne aircraft to stop in a short distance. 800 meter I think was the distance it was supposed to handle.

When it comes to dog fighting capabilities they are, as guessed, limited given the size and weight, but certainly not bad at all. Later versions had upgraded engine and avionics that, combined with datalink capabilities made it a quite potent fighter all in all.

As a side note, reversing could be pre-selected in flight. It was then activated by nose-wheel touching the ground. The successor, JAS 39 Gripen does not need thrust reversing, it's lighter weight combined with the use of all controlsurfaces for added drag and friction makes it stop in a very short distance too.
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TGIF
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting celestar (Reply 20):
Did they ever participate Red Flag or something like that? Any record?

Accually, the Gripen is going to the very next Red Flag, 13-2 to be held 21 Jan - 1 Feb:

http://www.nellis.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123327738

Quote:
In addition to U.S. aircraft, Netherlands' F-16s, Singapore's F-16s and Sweden's Gripens will participate.
 
olle
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:53 pm

Viggen was originally created as a attack version AJ carrying atomic bombs for soviet naval harbours in the baltics. In early 80s there was a fighter version called JAthat started to replace the draken divisions.

This feature described was the central part of surviving the first few days of a soviet attack on Sweden where each airfields got just a few Viggen each and most airfields got plastic fakes. The idea was with to many airfields to bomb the soviet was not going to kill too many real viggens on the ground.
 
Kiwirob
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:08 pm

Quoting celestar (Reply 9):
may be it is because I am getting myself ready for a new Volvo V60!

I hope you wait a couple of months before ordering, the V60 facelift has just been announced, the major plus in my opinion is the new dash and instrument cluster, it's much nicer than the existing interior. They will also be more fuel efficient.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11302195...and-xc60-facelift-details-released



I'm holding out for the new V80 to be released in 2015, my wife's previous V70 was the best car we've owned for what we need a car to be.
 
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VIflyer
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:42 pm

Quoting TGIF (Reply 24):

Quoting celestar (Reply 20):
Did they ever participate Red Flag or something like that? Any record?

Accually, the Gripen is going to the very next Red Flag, 13-2 to be held 21 Jan - 1 Feb:

http://www.nellis.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123327738

Quote:
In addition to U.S. aircraft, Netherlands' F-16s, Singapore's F-16s and Sweden's Gripens will participate.

Swedish Air Force Gripen's in the Nevada desert

http://youtu.be/pnBbBqIKfsA

http://youtu.be/aoEmeJCtsc4

Vi
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olle
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:08 pm

In the video you see how the gripen uses its wings to decrease speed compared to the reverse system on the viggen. The idea is the same... Stop on short airstrips.
 
tommytoyz
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 21):
Also the Swedish submarine HMS Gotland were stationed in San Diego
for a while during exercises with the US Navy.

HMS Gotland did very well and did manage to sneak through the carrier defence group
to take close up pictures of the carrier which indicated that the carrier had been sunk.

Yes, this makes aircraft carriers and naval aviation as we know it today - obsolete. The Swedish sub was on lease by the US Navy to try and develop defenses against these submarines. The lease was extended by 1 year. The Chinese and German AIP subs also succeeded in penetrating the entire US carrier group as proven when they both were noticed only after they surfaced close the the carriers. A German sub is on the way right now to the Caribbean on a similar exercise against a US carrier group. Clearly the brass is worried. Below a picture from another penetration exercise in the Mediterranean. It only needs 25 sailors. Scroll down a bit for the target picture:

http://www.abendblatt.de/politik/aus...nen-US-Admiral-wuetend-machte.html

Swedish technology is, I think, under rated. I think the Grippen will be just fine, especially with the AESA radar, data links and it's passive sensor suit. The Viggen lives on by the fact that other "canard" fighters have followed. The Typhoon and Rafale and even the Israeli Kfir (to a smaller extent). I am not sure on this, but isn't the Viggen the 1st front line fighter with canards? If so, that aspect was visionary at the time.

[Edited 2013-02-24 12:26:44]
 
olle
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RE: Saab Viggen Reverse Quickturn Video

Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:44 pm

By the way the draken from mid 60s and viggen system together with STRIL was the first airplanes with datalink...

Viggen was also the first airplane to use this datalink for using one fighter use its radar so up to 3 other fighers could use radar led missiles without using their radar...

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