Sevensixtyseven
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US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:01 am

I'm curious as to the routings and generic timings for the current and past military charters shuttling troops to Afghanistan, and the (formerly?) flown flights to Iraq for the US military.


Can anyone enlighten me to what these are and were?
And can anyone also list all current carriers flying these charters and on what equipment?

Thanks!

EDITED: Someone pointed out to me the need for security for these flights...so to clarify, I don't want "Flight XXX is being flown to X, Y, and Z, and will be leaving and arriving on this time."

All I want to know is (in a generic sense), what past flights have stopped at. From my own personal assumption the passengers get picked up in the country, stop somewhere else for fuel, then go to BGR..then onto their destination....

[Edited 2012-12-30 18:25:39]
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
airtran737
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RE: US Military Troop Charters?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:06 am

There are a lot of us on here who do those flights, and I hope that none of us gives you any routing and times for current missions. Not trying to be an ass, but there is something to be said for OPSEC and giving out details on current or future missions can compromise that.
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Sevensixtyseven
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:27 am

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 1):

No offense taken. I just edited and clarified what I want. Genericism is good, but I'd like a tad more detail than I've gathered from assumption, and certainly nothing that puts anyone in any form of danger. Not my intention at all. Plus, Omni's flights are viewable publicly, on FlightAware.

[Edited 2012-12-30 18:30:46]
Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:31 am

Yeah. There are lots of ways to get publicly-available information about some of these past flights, but I don't see any reason to make it easy.

You can always contact the Air Mobility Command at Scott Air Force Base, and ask them for what details they are willing to make public about International CRAF flights.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 2):
Omni's flights are viewable publicly, on FlightAware

You are not going to see Omni's flights on Flightaware going all the way to the Sandbox.
 
AA94
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:40 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):
You are not going to see Omni's flights on Flightaware going all the way to the Sandbox.

They certainly are viewable, I'm watching the tracks right now.

I don't want to start an incident, but at my home airport, Omni flights operating on behalf of the Air Mobility Command are shown on the FIDS in the terminal and you will often see troops lined up several hours before departure, so it's not really a secret where these flights are going or why they're operating.
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irshava
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:49 am

Sun Country did some - flights transiting through BUD on their way there.
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wjcandee
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:29 am

Quoting AA94 (Reply 5):
They certainly are viewable, I'm watching the tracks right now.

You are seeing an Omni military flight number on Flightaware flying through and beyond Eurocontrol to Sandbox destinations? Show us.

I'm not talking about being able to find Omni (or World or North American) flight numbers flying within the US.

[Edited 2012-12-30 19:30:39]
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:37 am

Atlas Air is another carrier doing a ton of military flights. My wife is a flight attendant with them. I wouldn't want to say more than that.
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FI642
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 4):

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 2):
Omni's flights are viewable publicly, on FlightAware

You are not going to see Omni's flights on Flightaware going all the way to the Sandbox.

Often they are assigned special call signs, so they cannot be tracked. Schedules are non-routine
to proved a bit more security.
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:58 am

Many times those flights go from base to base. ATL and JFK had a few of them too. There are far less now though than in the height of the conflicts.
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fxra
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:14 am

These flights usually originate at an airport, either within the US or outside the US. It can be a civilian airport or military airbase. Often they tech stop at otehr airports, sometimes inside the US and sometimes outside the US. the tech stops could also be either at a military airbase or a civilian airbase. The purpose of these flights are to move military personel and material to and from regions of deployment. They are operated by most US flagged carriers on equipment based on the needs of the service.

That's probably about as specific as I think anyone really wants to get.
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blueflyer
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:32 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
You are seeing an Omni military flight number on Flightaware flying through and beyond Eurocontrol to Sandbox destinations?

Not on flightaware, but with the newer aircraft operating CRAF flights, you can probably seem them on web sites like flightradar24 that rely on ADS-B data fed in by networks of volunteers.

I have occasionally seen what looked like CRAF flights (conclusions drawn mostly based on O/D), but I don't have any specific example because I don't track them. Whenever I stumble upon one, it is while looking for something else... If I do look at the history of a particular aircraft, sometimes there are gaps in areas where coverage is available (eg an aircraft lands in SNN and is next seen taking off from TBS 24 hours later). I suppose crew may be instructed to turn off their transceiver to make tracking more difficult, but I am sure there are instances where they forget or choose not to in the busy European air space because I have definitively seen some flying to/from the sandbox and/or military installations.

That said, the schedule of the daily R&R flights into DFW was no secret...
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PanHAM
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:22 am

since civilian stealth aircraft are not yet invented they can be seen doing tech stops at places like LEJ or HHN:

It's as simple as adding one and one, a UA or Omni aircarft making a stop at an airport in Europe with soliders on combatr gear disembarking, are they A) coming and going from/to the beach holiday or B) are they coming or going from / to a military mission.

Even using military bases for tech stops would not change anything, flying over is just enough to make up ends, not only for a.nutters.
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fxra
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:56 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 12):
I have occasionally seen what looked like CRAF flights (conclusions drawn mostly based on O/D), but I don't have any specific example because I don't track them. Whenever I stumble upon one, it is while looking for something else... If I do look at the history of a particular aircraft, sometimes there are gaps in areas where coverage is available (eg an aircraft lands in SNN and is next seen taking off from TBS 24 hours later). I suppose crew may be instructed to turn off their transceiver to make tracking more difficult, but I am sure there are instances where they forget or choose not to in the busy European air space because I have definitively seen some flying to/from the sandbox and/or military installations.

Actually, most ATC filter out certain identifiers before the feeds are open to the public. For instance, you'll never see an Air Force 1 callsign displayed anywhere on a public website or tracking system. Lots of examples of this worldwide.
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AndyEastMids
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:21 am

Quoting fxra (Reply 14):
Actually, most ATC filter out certain identifiers before the feeds are open to the public

Actually, ADS-B transmissions can be intercepted directly and don't need to go anywhere near ATC and be filtered.

Case in point in case anyone doubts some of these flights can be tracked - there's a Sun Country 737-800 N817SY showing in FlightRadar24 right now, heading west off the coast of Ireland at FL340, call sign CMB450. CMB=CAMBER=US DOD Transportation Command. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what the flight is, nor many similar flights operatd by civilian contractors that can be followed on FR24
 
COSPN
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:29 am

Basically it depends on the mission, who and when, where else they have to be..many Units are from base A train at B then go to C, sometimes all together sometimes in smaller groups, Flightaware has most of these domestic flights listed..
 
thrufru
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:47 pm

Oh for goodness sake. People are acting like these are top secret military flights engaging in stealth operations. Not only have these flights been going on for more than a decade, but there has been extensive public coverage particularly in regards to the end destination at Manas Airbase in Bishkek, Kyrghizstan when the US was renogtiating the lease, and again with the somewhat recent political upheaval there. Additionally, I believe this has been discussed ad infinitum on this forum, too.

I'll also note that we don't ever "turn off our transceivers" nor do we use secret call signs.
 
JHCRJ700
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting thrufru (Reply 17):
Oh for goodness sake. People are acting like these are top secret military flights engaging in stealth operations. Not only have these flights been going on for more than a decade, but there has been extensive public coverage particularly in regards to the end destination at Manas Airbase in Bishkek, Kyrghizstan when the US was renogtiating the lease, and again with the somewhat recent political upheaval there. Additionally, I believe this has been discussed ad infinitum on this forum, too.

I'll also note that we don't ever "turn off our transceivers" nor do we use secret call signs.

Yeah I'm kinda surprised how people are acting about these flights. I see both sides of things, but had no idea these flights were so "top secret." I was going to mention the daily flights from europe to my home airport, but now I'm not so sure I want to!            
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SavannahMark
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:55 pm

If you are just inquiring about companies and equipment, I can add that World Airways also flies passenger charters (MD-11) for the Air Mobility Command. Many flights have originated and ended right here in Savannah at Hunter Army Airfield, where I use to be the tower chief. If memory serves, some of these flights were using HHN as a stop-over/refueling point prior to continuing on to their destination.
 
Flyer732
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:18 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 18):
Yeah I'm kinda surprised how people are acting about these flights. I see both sides of things, but had no idea these flights were so "top secret." I was going to mention the daily flights from europe to my home airport, but now I'm not so sure I want to!

What you don't understand is that those individuals who work for the carriers who provide these flights are under strict requirements from the DOD to not disclose ANY information pertaining to the flights at all.

Yes, in ATL and DFW there are R&R flights, however if you are present for the boarding or see it on the FIDS it will just say service to Leipzig, Germany or Shannon, Ireland, followed by the phrase "and points beyond" There are always ways to find out where the flights go, but there is no need to make it readily available.
 
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Joshu
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:14 pm

These flights come into BWI all the time. The WO, NA, DL, and UA flights usually seem to take a fuel stop in EDFH or EDDP. The Ommni flights usually stop in EINN.
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laca773
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:50 pm

I've seen photos on here of DL Military charters on here being flown with 76Ws into Frankfurt Hahn. I don't think it's that top secret if a.net has photos of military charters on here.

What scheduled airline flies the most charters?

I do know the military pays for the catering and what they feed the troops is generally better compared to what is served on scheduled flights.
 
Flyer732
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):

I've seen photos on here of DL Military charters on here being flown with 76Ws into Frankfurt Hahn. I don't think it's that top secret if a.net has photos of military charters on here.

As I already stated, if you'e in ATL or DFW you'll see on the departure boards flights to SNN, HHN, or LEJ. Those however are not the destination, only a fuel stop and crew change. The destination information is whats important, and the information that shouldn't be so easily given out.
 
Herc4ever
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):

Hope this helps you. In my almost 13 years, I have flown these charters on UA, DL, OY, WO, 5Y, 5X, FX and EZ. I have made stops at LAS, PHL, ORF, ATL, BWI, FRA, SNN, HHN, AVB, HBE and LCA, not counting the final destinations. I have flown on 763, 752, 744, MD11, DC10 and 777.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 22):
I do know the military pays for the catering and what they feed the troops is generally better compared to what is served on scheduled flights.

I have never noticed a difference, besides what I've got on 5X, FX and EZ.
GTF PDX EUG DEN SLC SFO SEA SAT DFW ORD MSP ATL PHL JFK CLT BWI ADD CGN FRA HHN PMI GSE RMS FRF AVB IUD KIK KWI BGW HBE
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:24 pm

My wife, a flight attendant for Atlas Air, which does numerous military charters every month, says they are required to wake up troops to feed them, per DOD. So hopefully the meals are worth it!
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blueflyer
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting JHCRJ700 (Reply 18):
Yeah I'm kinda surprised how people are acting about these flights.

Too many people don't seem to trust AMC's own judgement. There is something to be said for operational security, and there's no denying that firing a shoulder-launched rocket into one of these flights on landing is a terrorist's wet dream, so publishing the schedule a month out may not be a good idea, but there needs to be some kind of balance.

If keeping all details top secret was essential, do we really think that AMC would sanction flights in and out of public airports where, by definition, things are public? If it was so important to keep these flights confidential at all times, they'd operate in and out of military airports in the middle of nowhere at night with lights off, not out of DFW or or ORF or BGR where anyone can see them!

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 23):
if you'e in ATL or DFW you'll see on the departure boards flights to SNN, HHN, or LEJ.

Daily R&R flights have ended at DFW, but they did list the final destination, not the refueling point. Additionally, check-in counters were organized according to the soldiers' ultimate destination (eg Camp Rhino, Camp Virginia, etc...) so there was no doubt as to where they were going... Best organized check-in I have ever seen.

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 25):
they are required to wake up troops to feed them

Are they required to force them to eat too?
  
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blueflyer
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RE: US Military Troop Charters (Non-specific)?

Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:59 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
You are seeing an Omni military flight number on Flightaware flying through and beyond Eurocontrol to Sandbox destinations? Show us.

Ok, so it's not Omni, but Atlas... See for yourself: http://fr24.com/2012-12-31/00:56/CMB730
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