bennett123
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2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:37 pm

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23408356

It seems that someone has some explaining to do.

Assuming it is Cuba, then this looks somewhat dumb.
 
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N328KF
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:40 pm

What were they going to do with two MiG-21s?
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ThePointblank
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:41 pm

A lot of explaining to do... MiG-21 fuselages, engines, SAM's and missiles onboard a North Korean ship acting suspiciously. All for a 'repair contract', hidden under bags of sugar, with the systems undeclared. Smells more like arms smuggling to me.

The Cubans and the North Koreans have a TON of explaining to do at the UN... especially the Cubans.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 1):
What were they going to do with two MiG-21s?

The North Koreans could take the systems, refurbish them in house, and add them to their arsenal. With the UN arms sanctions, they can't import weapons or components for weapons, so getting their hands on whatever weapon system they can get will be a priority for them.

[Edited 2013-07-22 13:49:03]
 
Acheron
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 2):
All for a 'repair contract', hidden under bags of sugar, with the systems undeclared. Smells more like arms smuggling to me.

Both countries are embargoed, how exactly do you expect them to go about things?

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 2):
The Cubans and the North Koreans have a TON of explaining to do at the UN... especially the Cubans.

Nah, they don't. It is obsolete machinery, most likely S-75 or S-125 radar equipment

Quoting ThePointblank (Reply 2):
The North Koreans could take the systems, refurbish them in house, and add them to their arsenal. With the UN arms sanctions, they can't import weapons or components for weapons, so getting their hands on whatever weapon system they can get will be a priority for them.

As if it's going to make a difference...

Fun show, though.
 
ThePointblank
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 3):
Both countries are embargoed, how exactly do you expect them to go about things?

North Korea has a UN embargo, which is to be observed by all UN members. Cuba isn't under UN embargo; it's under American embargo.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 3):

Nah, they don't. It is obsolete machinery, most likely S-75 or S-125 radar equipment

Weapons are weapons, and North Korea is not allowed to import weapons or weapon components, including spare parts.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 3):

As if it's going to make a difference...

It would make a small difference, as it would allow the North Koreans to add to their forces, or if the systems have components that can be salvaged, used to repair existing systems to bring them operational.
 
bennett123
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:17 pm

It seems daft of Cuba to stick their head above the parapet to give North Korea such an apparently trivial increase in military capacity.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:22 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 5):

It seems daft of Cuba to stick their head above the parapet to give North Korea such an apparently trivial increase in military capacity.

I'm with this opinion. Cuba should have known the USA would be angered at their failure to do what they are told by Uncle Sam.

In real terms how much hard cash would 2 Mig-21's fetch? The sugar may be worth more.
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:47 am

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 6):
In real terms how much hard cash would 2 Mig-21's fetch?

During the recent tender for the overhaul/replacement of the Croatian AF's MiG-21 fleet, the prices for an airworthy, combat capable MiG-21bis were quoted at between EUR 1.3 and 2 million (depending on age and who was selling them).

Given that these are non-airworthy aircraft that had been subjected to questionable conservation practices, even EUR 2 million for the pair may be stretching it... (especially since the example pictured in the article is a twin-stick UM, not a bis)

[Edited 2013-07-23 05:04:19]
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ThePointblank
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:38 pm

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 7):
Given that these are non-airworthy aircraft that had been subjected to questionable conservation practices, even EUR 2 million for the pair may be stretching it... (especially since the example pictured in the article is a twin-stick UM, not a bis)

However, I would add that North Korea would have extreme difficulty getting any frames due to the arms embargo, so they would have to pay more for any frames they could get their hands on via the black market.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:37 pm

It is speculated that Cuba is 'simply' sending military equipment to North Korea for repairs, or simply buying weapons from them, and paying them with basic food supply like sugar... NK's food supply shortage is that dire and desperate that they are resorting to incredibly stupid moves like doing these trades out in the open right under the nose of the US.

At least it seems they are doing something to try and feed the poor starving North Koreans...

[Edited 2013-07-24 12:40:30]
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Spacepope
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 9):
and paying them with basic food supply like sugar...

I don't think the Norks are paying anyone in sugar. I would guess they are paying in cash, they have ways of getting that (like their drug rings).

It was a stupid move to try to go through the canal though.
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ThePointblank
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:52 am

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 10):
I don't think the Norks are paying anyone in sugar. I would guess they are paying in cash, they have ways of getting that (like their drug rings).

It was a stupid move to try to go through the canal though.

I think the ship was going to be stopped anyways; the reported behaviour of the the ship when it was transiting to Cuba (it turned off it's transponder after transiting through the canal, and didn't turn it back on until it reappeared to head back to North Korea) was suspicious enough.

Even if they didn't transit through the canal, it would be a very long journey around South America or via Africa and the Indian Ocean and northwards, where the ship would have needed to stop to refuel and resupply. Using such an alternative route when the canal was the easiest way would have also drawn attention as well, beyond the fact that North Korean ships draw attention anyways.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: 2 North Korean MIG21 Fuselage Found

Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:22 pm

The Korean People's Air Force has more than 150 Mig-21s, mostly the Mig-21PFM, and some Mig-21bis. They are in the process of converting their Mig-21Us. This conversion can be from Mig-21UMs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_...e%27s_Air_Force#Aircraft_Inventory

What we don't know is how many NK ships loaded with weapons and Migs have gone through the PC without getting caught.

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