bennett123
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Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:17 pm

http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...g-YAL-1A-%28747-4G4F%29/2299688/M/

Is there any prospect that this aircraft could be preserved?.

Also, is the technology to be used on other platforms?.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:09 pm

Looks more like a preservation or a storage than a scrapping...

[Edited 2013-08-13 09:11:15]
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
Looks more like a preservation or a storage than a scrapping...

That is correct. It's being kept as a research asset and is in long term storage (as part of the 309th Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group).
 
sprout5199
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:48 pm

The Military does strange things. Looks like as everyone said "preservation" for future use.

Is that a Phantom and a Skymaster in the background? Need to preserve those babies.

Dan in Jupiter
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:36 am

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 3):
The Military does strange things. Looks like as everyone said "preservation" for future use.

Well they reportedly sank some five billion into the program as a whole, so might as well keep it around...  
 
Gatorman96
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:48 am

Although this aircraft may not be a total loss, it does appear that it is being parted out to some extent. If you check other photos in the database, the aircraft is whole in January:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stuart Haigh


In May, YAL is missing its trailing edge flaps:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © HGabor


In the photo posted by the OP, she is now missing a body panel behind her starboard wing.
 
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:44 pm

Even though they say is "in preservation", it will eventually be scrapped. the nose turret might be retained as a cold war trophy in a military air museum. The main reasons are the airframe has been extensively modified, none of the components are common with either the existing Air Force Ones, or the replacement 747-8i's, some laser components are extremely toxic, and the technology is fast becoming obsolete (still you wouldn't want anyone studying it too closely).

On top of all that, there is simply no money nor the will to find some to continue to fly the bird for further research.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:26 pm

But the missing parts are common to all B-747-400s. I could see they may have been sold to an ally who flies the B-747-400 as their Presidential/VIP aircraft, like Japan.

JSDAF B-747-47C, tail # 20-1102

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan...d=bd83175a159fcb1155def02866780900

JSDFAF B-747-47C, tail # 20-1101

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Japan...d=bd83175a159fcb1155def02866780900
 
redflyer
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
But the missing parts are common to all B-747-400s.

Are parts for 744's in such dire shortage that the USAF is willing to pull them off of a plane that was part of a $5 billion project?
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 7):
But the missing parts are common to all B-747-400s.

they were common.. however they would need zero timing and refurbishment before being sold.. Since the government isn't in the used parts business to either commercial airlines or other governments, I doubt would haver started with these parts..

On the other hand they may just have removed and crated for long term storage where dust dirt, birds and solar damage is minimal.
 
Oroka
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting redflyer (Reply 8):
Are parts for 744's in such dire shortage that the USAF is willing to pull them off of a plane that was part of a $5 billion project?

The 744 flaps are not part of the project that cost $5B.

As for shortage... it may have been a matter of rush, the USAF has a near new set sitting in the desert.


IOU 1 set 744 flaps.
 
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting Oroka (Reply 10):
The 744 flaps are not part of the project that cost $5B.

As for shortage... it may have been a matter of rush, the USAF has a near new set sitting in the desert.

the plane itself was part of the $5B.. that included the flaps

Flaps would still have needed refurb.. and Boeing usually has sets available for lease.. larger customers also lease out their spares, plus there are plenty of commercial -400's to take flaps from..
 
zanl188
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:30 am

FWIW: A post on Boneyard Almanacs FB page says it's going to the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

The activity seen could be crews getting her airworthy for the trip.


https://www.facebook.com/#!/BoneyardAlmanac
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:36 am

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 12):
it's going to the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

dang, another tax supported budget eating hole in the ground just because it is.. A pork barrel idea probably leading up to spending money on another hanger.
 
zanl188
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:41 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 13):
dang, another tax supported budget eating hole in the ground just because it is.. A pork barrel idea probably leading up to spending money on another hanger.

NMUSAF has a non-profit doing the construction fund raising for them... but yes a new hangar is underway...

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/questions/topic.asp?id=970
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Buckeyetech
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:53 am

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 12):
FWIW: A post on Boneyard Almanacs FB page says it's going to the National Museum of the United States Air Force.

That's an interesting rumor. It would make sense to put her there, if it didn't cost too much money for a one-time flight to DWF. I'd love to see her outside with the other airborne laser aircraft.
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Oroka
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:25 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 11):
the plane itself was part of the $5B.. that included the flaps

I knew someone would nit-pick that. A 744 costs around $80-90M... the other $4 910 000 000 is laser and related systems. The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

A refurbishment on a part with so little time would probably come down to inspection and a lube job.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:36 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):
I knew someone would nit-pick that. A 744 costs around $80-90M... the other $4 910 000 000 is laser and related systems. The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

I don't know. Most of the references speak of it as a "modified" 744. I doubt this is something that can be rolled out the nose or cargo door and pushed onto a different 744. Given the prime contractor was Boeing, I don't think there's all that much inside that is common with an "off the shelf" 744.
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):
The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

go back and look at the history.. a production unit was delivered to Wichita where the aft body was extensively beefed up, the aluminum skins replaced with stainless steel, the forward structure gutted and beefed up to carry the dome, all wiring replaced.. new floor beams, hardly a off the shelf bird..

However the main issue you need to grasp is the Air Force does not sell used parts to commercial airlines or foreign governments (the latter requires Congressional approval). They might remove and refurbish to Military standards, but do not have an FAA repair certificate.

It's moot anyway if the plane is going to be flown to a gate guarding location.

Quoting zanl188 (Reply 14):
NMUSAF has a non-profit doing the construction fund raising for them... but yes a new hangar is underway...

Sorry I was being a little sarcastic.. especially after seeing several museums disbanding and selling collections when the contributions dry up. However, I doubt that the laser hardware in the aft end will stay intact.. it's A) caustic, and B) a closely guarded test installation. .. If people were not so enthralled by shiny metal, a more practical display would be a conceptual cut away laser mock-up inside a building and the nose section detached and mounted on the exterior..
 
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N14AZ
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:00 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 18):

the aluminum skins replaced with stainless steel

So the skinn of the fuselage is now stainless steel? Is that correct? Doesn't look like stainless steel. And why did they have to replace the aluminium skin?
 
bennett123
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:39 pm

I know that Nuclear facilities use all Stainless. Is it possible that Radiation is a factor.
 
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:06 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 19):
nd why did they have to replace the aluminium skin?

it was the corrosive nature of the chemicals in the laser and the out gassing/drainage of those chemicals. They also replaced some of the ribs and stringers for the same reason. not: it was only the aft belly skins that were replaced..
 
Oroka
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:21 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 18):
a production unit was delivered to Wichita

Sounds like she started off as an off the shelf bird to me. She may have been modified a bit, i cant remember if the standard 744 comes with the giant laser turret on their nose or not.

The whole frame could never be sold off for pretty much any other use, but I dont think the wings were modified.

But then again, I dont work for Boeing or the USAF anymore (or ever), they dont call me to keep me up to date any more  



If they are not selling the flaps off to someone, or loaning... and I doubt it is being scrapped, let us speculate some more about the fate of the marginally modified 744F with the FRICKIN LAZOR BEAMS ATTACHED TO ITS HEAD.
 
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kanban
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:42 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 22):
speculate some more about the fate .

read post # 12...

and yes the wings may have been modified because of the air flow changes caused by the turret
 
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ssteve
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 3):
Is that a Phantom and a Skymaster in the background? Need to preserve those babies.

The F-4s do actually get kept around for one final flight as a QF-4 missile target.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:13 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Most of the references speak of it as a "modified" 744. I doubt this is something that can be rolled out the nose or cargo door and pushed onto a different 744. Given the prime contractor was Boeing, I don't think there's all that much inside that is common with an "off the shelf" 744.

No, the airplane was ordered by the USAF on 30 Jan. 1998 as a standard B-747-400F (it is not the ERF model). After delivery, it went to the modification location (Kansas) where the air refueling equipment and some of the external equipment and military avionics were installed. The laser turret was also installed there after the equipment was installed through the nose cargo door at NG.

Yes, the YAL-1A is air refuelable.
 
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Groover158
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:30 am

Here's some pics of it that I took last year:



 
Max Q
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RE: Boeing YAL 1A To Be Scrapped?

Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:15 am

Quoting Oroka (Reply 16):

I knew someone would nit-pick that. A 744 costs around $80-90M... the other $4 910 000 000 is laser and related systems. The airframe was an off the shelf purchase.

I think you're about $100 million low..


In any case it's an incredibly cool idea in an awesome Aircraft.


Shame it didn't work !
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