User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 5973
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:49 am

End of a good ship that had a somewhat troubled history but she did her job for nearly 40 years.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/USS_Forrestal_(CVA-59),_starboard_view,_1982.jpg

Though it was offered for preservation no groups were able to provide proposals that they could viably support her, so with that she was put to bid for scrap and a company in TX bid one penny as the cost to scrap will largely equal any residual material value they will obtain.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/23...rst-supercarrier-sold-for-1-penny/

Small set of images of her and her history:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/23/us/gal...uss-forrestal/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
nomadd22
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:01 pm

I've been in more than one job that used the films of the fire in training. Mostly as examples of everything not to do.
Firefighting policies and training might have been lacking, but no group of men on the planet were more courageous and dedicated than those guys.
In the end "She did her job" is worth more than all the speeches and shiny awards in the world.
I saw her not too long ago, near the SS United States. Both were obviously way past the practical point of restoration. I wish the bureaucrats could make a decision without dicking around for a decade or more.
Anon
 
Sooner787
Posts: 1488
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:17 pm

So how long does it take to scrap a supercarrier?

I remember reading somewhere that they had a devil

of a time scrapping the Coral Sea
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 2980
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:36 pm

Do we know it can move on its own power or it need to be towed to Brownsville, Texas.
 
NBGSkyGod
Posts: 807
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
Do we know it can move on its own power or it need to be towed to Brownsville, Texas.

Towed, most of its engineering systems would have been removed at the time of decommission.
Pilots are idots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
mjgbtv
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:18 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
Do we know it can move on its own power or it need to be towed to Brownsville, Texas.

According to the slideshow it will be towed.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2466
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:31 am

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
Do we know it can move on its own power or it need to be towed to Brownsville, Texas.

She's probably been stripped of every single useful component to keep the remaining carriers operational. She will probably needs to be towed.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 2):
So how long does it take to scrap a supercarrier?

I think Forrestal is the first supercarrier ever to be scrapped. Coral Sea took a long time because there were numerous financial, legal and environmental issues surrounding her scrapping. Coral Sea was the largest warship ever to be scrapped at the time and the contractor didn't have the experience to scrap Coral Sea. The contractor later ran into financial difficulties due to the complexity of the scrapping, and there were even environmental issues regarding ship which slowed down scrapping and added more issues. There was even a serious proposal to send Coral Sea to China for scrapping (she was even prepped and cleaned up for the tow) before the Navy got an injunction to stop the proposal. Later the contractor got indicted on criminal charges related to the scrapping of Coral Sea.

Scrapping later continued, but at a much slower pace (the fires in 1996 and 1997 didn't help either), until Coral Sea was completely scrapped in 2000, 7 years in total.
 
nomadd22
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:41 am

I'd rather see the big girls as reefs than scrapped. It might seem strange to most to think a ship has a soul. But most haven't lived at sea for a good part of their lives.
Anon
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1182
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:51 pm

Same thing happened to Oriskany. She was bought by a contractor for scrap, towed over to Mare Island, contractor didn't do very much, the Navy repossessed the hull and it was later sunk as an artificial reef off Florida.

It doesn't really take very long to dismantle a large ship like Forrestal, larger ships have been dismantled in less than a few months. If its being dismantled in the US or other first world country, environmental laws and doing it the right way will cause the dismantling to take a very long time - as noted above 7 years in the case of Coral Sea.

If you send it to the shipbreakers in Bangladesh, India (where the French carrier Clemenceau was sent originally - it ended up being dismantled in England), or Pakistan. It's all done by hand and acetylene torches. They just run the ship around off the beach among all the other commercial oil tankers, freighters being dismantled. After a few months the ship is gone, leaving just the environmental disaster and hazardous waste on the beach.

http://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Ships-Roland-Buerk/dp/1596090367

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_breaking

[Edited 2013-10-25 09:02:13]
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5547
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:04 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 3):
Do we know it can move on its own power or it need to be towed to Brownsville, Texas.

From the Wikipedia article on the Forrestal - "After being stricken, ex-Forrestal was heavily stripped to support the rest of the carrier fleet."

It would be extremely expensive to try to get a ship like that underway on its own power. And take a lot of work and people and a long time. A tow is much easier and cheaper. But they have to wait for the right weather forecast.

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 7):
I'd rather see the big girls as reefs than scrapped. It might seem strange to most to think a ship has a soul.

Sinking a ship for a reef takes a lot of work to prepare the ship. Both to ensure no long lasting environmental issues, and to make sure the ship actually sinks on schedule. The carriers have a lot of compartments which would need to be breached to ensure trapped air does not make a sinking unpredictable.

It would cost the Navy several million dollars, which they don't have, to prepare it properly for sinking.

Quoting woodreau (Reply 8):
It doesn't really take very long to dismantle a large ship like Forrestal, larger ships have been dismantled in less than a few months. If its being dismantled in the US or other first world country, environmental laws and doing it the right way will cause the dismantling to take a very long time - as noted above 7 years in the case of Coral Sea.

If you look on Google Earth - you can see the scrapping yard in Brownsville near the end if the ICW.

They have a lot of experience with former US Navy ships. They will likely have to dig a bigger wet dock area for the carrier scrapping.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2466
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 9):
If you look on Google Earth - you can see the scrapping yard in Brownsville near the end if the ICW.

They have a lot of experience with former US Navy ships. They will likely have to dig a bigger wet dock area for the carrier scrapping.

Indeed. See these articles:
http://www.fastcompany.com/3002137/h...s-us-naval-ship-recycling-industry

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/156732...-comes-in-to-brownsville-rip-it-up
 
nomadd22
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:47 pm

It doesn't really add up for me. It's only about $15 million worth of steel and I can't see them doing the job domestically for that with all the remediation that's going to be required.
Anon
 
silentbob
Posts: 1538
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:10 pm

I see it all the time in Philly and was hoping to have a chance to dive on it as an artificial reef some day.

[Edited 2013-10-25 15:11:32]
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:24 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
I see it all the time in Philly and was hoping to have a chance to dive on it as an artificial reef some day.

Where!?

Somehow, as much as I love reading about military topics, I had no idea there were carriers down in the Philly inactive fleet. I've never actually seen the fleet. From where can you see it?
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
neutronstar73
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:57 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:02 am

When I was at Naval Justice School I used to PT and run by the Forrestal and Saratoga every day. It was, and still is, one of the most impressive and depressing sights I've ever seen. Two huge warships, just sitting there, unused, and past their time (allegedly). Shame those things cost so much to build and operate and then they are just waiting to be turned into razor blades.

Oh well, I didn't know they moved the Forrestal in 2010, but I last visited Newport in 2009. If I ever go back, it will be a sad sight to see her gone, and Saratoga sitting there alone.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5547
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 11):
It doesn't really add up for me. It's only about $15 million worth of steel and I can't see them doing the job domestically for that with all the remediation that's going to be required.

Well, the companies in Brownsville make it work for them.

There may be more value in the copper in the wiring on the ship, a lot of aluminum and other more profitable metals on the ship rather than just the steel.

My team redid the television cable system on the USS Midway during her 1985 overhaul in Japan. We used 2.3 miles of half-inch primary lines and 7.7 miles of RG-59 cable. We ran cable to only about 60% of the compartments on the ship.

I'm sure there is likely 20 miles or more of copper electrical wire left on the ship.

While the ship was stripped of parts of other ships, there is still a lot of things left which can be sold.

The ship probably won't be there when we go down to the Valley for a month in January, but it will likely be there next spring, and I'll go see it.

[Edited 2013-10-26 11:17:53]
 
nomadd22
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:18 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 13):
Where!?

Somehow, as much as I love reading about military topics, I had no idea there were carriers down in the Philly inactive fleet. I've never actually seen the fleet. From where can you see it?

I think the Ranger was sitting there too. Not sure exactly where it was. I was just on a ship going up the Delaware and saw them before we passed the New Jersey. I think they were in the Philadelphia Naval Yard.

[Edited 2013-10-26 14:20:19]
Anon
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:38 pm

The Kennedy is allegedly there, too.

There has to be a place you can see them from public land. My dad and I wanted to see the Olympia before the weather got too cold, but that's kinda out of the question now until the spring because of football season. If we head down there for that, I'd love to be able to catch a glimpse of some carriers.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 5973
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:22 am

You can/could see them when on approach to PHL. I saw the Forrestal and the Kennedy a few times when flying in there.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
silentbob
Posts: 1538
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:20 am

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 13):
Somehow, as much as I love reading about military topics, I had no idea there were carriers down in the Philly inactive fleet. I've never actually seen the fleet. From where can you see it?
Quoting tugger (Reply 18):

You can/could see them when on approach to PHL. I saw the Forrestal and the Kennedy a few times when flying in there.

Yeah, they're right under the approach for 26 and 27L/R. You can also see the overhead shot on google maps, it will give you an idea of where they are.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 17):

The Kennedy is allegedly there, too.

Correct, they are tied up next to each other.
 
studedave
Posts: 462
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:21 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:43 am

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 16):
I think the Ranger was sitting there too.

I thought the Ranger was in Bremerton with Indy, Kitty and Connie?





StudeDave
Classic planes, Classic trains, and Studebakers~~ what else is there???
 
nomadd22
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:42 pm

Quoting studedave (Reply 20):
Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 16):
I think the Ranger was sitting there too.

I thought the Ranger was in Bremerton with Indy, Kitty and Connie?

It is. My memory ain't what it use to be. I blame the 60s.
Anon
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 18):
You can/could see them when on approach to PHL. I saw the Forrestal and the Kennedy a few times when flying in there.

Tugg

I avoid PHL like the plague, so that may explain why I've never seen them from the air.

Is there any place to see them from public land, do you know?
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:36 pm

I've made somewhat of a hobby of finding decommissioned carriers. Bremerton is of course the hotbed of old carriers; in addtion to those mentioned earlier, Enterprise is in Norfolk and Saratoga in Newport (where the Forrestal also was until a few years ago). America is of course at the bottom of the sea, and Kennedy and Forrestal are in Philly. I believe that rounds out the list of decommissioned "supercarriers."

You can get quite close to the Kennedy and Forrestal at Philadelphia, at least you could when I visited in 2010:

http://airshots.homestead.com/files/forest_3.jpg

http://airshots.homestead.com/files/forest_1.jpg

http://airshots.homestead.com/files/forest_2.jpg

My van in front of the Forrestal - again this was 2010, but that was how close you could get:
http://airshots.homestead.com/files/forest_4.jpg

Taken on a different day on a US Airways flight climbing out of PHL, Forrestal is shown below Kennedy:
http://airshots.homestead.com/files/forest_5.jpg
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:17 pm

Wow, that is awesome. Thank you for posting those.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
silentbob
Posts: 1538
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:47 am

On approach into PHL (27), you can see the New Jersey, Olympia, Becuna, SS United States, Kennedy, Forrestal and a handful of others tied up in the navy yard. It's actually a pretty impressive when you think about it.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5351
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:49 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):


I see it all the time in Philly and was hoping to have a chance to dive on it as an artificial reef some day.

Unlikely. Considering America is some 16,860 ft deep, my guess would be that Forrestal would be similarly situated. I think that's a wee bit deep to go diving!
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
nomadd22
Posts: 1566
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:42 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:37 pm

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 26):
Unlikely. Considering America is some 16,860 ft deep, my guess would be that Forrestal would be similarly situated. I think that's a wee bit deep to go diving!

They just sent the Oriskany to diving depth. The America was part of a simulated live fire exercise where it couldn't be sent down in a controlled manner, so they needed deep water. They also didn't want divers seeing the results of the explosions on the hull.
Anon
 
Sooner787
Posts: 1488
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:44 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:11 pm

I wonder when or if the public will ever see the video of the USS America

sinking?
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:49 pm

I was reading that they preped the Forrestal the same as they preped Oriskany but decided against sinking her to form a reef.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
silentbob
Posts: 1538
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:40 pm

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 27):
They just sent the Oriskany to diving depth.

That's exactly what I was hoping for.
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1292
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:14 pm

I was in Philly for the Army-Navy game on Saturday. From my seats, I could see the Navy yard. I definitely saw the decommed Ticos and I think I saw the ex-Kennedy (too far away to clearly see the number on the island). Definitely want to go back someday when it's warmer and see if it's possible to get closer, legally.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6576
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:58 pm

Wasn't the JFK supposed to go to Mayport FL to be a museum at one point? Or was that idea shelved?
Made from jets!
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5547
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Ex-USS Forrestal (CV-59) Sold For A Penny To Scrap

Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:52 pm

The Forrestal left Philadelphia before dawn on Tuesday, Feb 4 - expected to arrive in Brownsville in 17 or 18 days - Feb 21-22 - provided the weather doesn't cause problems with the tow.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-...arrier-on-final-trip-to-scrap-heap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ramair, Sooner787 and 24 guests