n75jyv
Topic Author
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:36 pm

Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:37 am

I flew out of STL yesterday afternoon (Sunday, November 27) just before 2pm and saw some activity near the Boeing ramp. Several vehicles and fire truck (lights flashing) near what I thought at first was an F-18. As we taxied it became evident that it was smaller than an F-18, so I started thinking it is the T-X. I have looked at the Boeing site for the T-X, but didn't really get a sense for the size or overall form. Thinking it would have more of a SAAB influence, my eyes were trying to match what I saw to a twin tailed Gripen but it just wasn't making sense. But as we took off, I got a better view, and once I got home, I looked at the the available pictures of the Boeing T-X, and yes, that was it. Small, low to the ground, and cool, but not aggressive looking. Stealthy.

Clearly this was an engine running taxi event. So, when is the first flight?
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 5282
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:37 pm

It looks like an F-22 got it on with a T-38. Good thing those are both good looking aircraft!
Image
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.
 
n75jyv
Topic Author
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:36 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:12 am

TWA772LR wrote:
It looks like an F-22 got it on with a T-38. Good thing those are both good looking aircraft!
Image


Agree, but it is small. The tail definitely had me thinking baby F-22. The official Boeing photos make it seem too low to the ground... when I saw it Sunday it didn't seem so low. What I really want is to see is this bird in the air, where it belongs!

Anyone have word on first flight?
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 5747
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:50 pm

Hopefully, by the end of the year... :crossfingers: ...

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/boe ... rst-flight

Quote:
"ORLANDO, Fla. — The Boeing-Saab T-X trainer is on track to fly by the end of the year after completing afterburner engine runs last week, Boeing officials said.

[.....]

'We’re looking to fly soon, before the year is over' Tom Conard, the company’s T-X capture team leader, reiterated during a Tuesday briefing at I/ITSEC. 'And as we’re preparing that jet to fly, our flight crews are training in the training system devices to prepare them exactly what they’re going to see in the jet'."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
User avatar
Devilfish
Posts: 5747
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:32 pm

Contractors are drumming up interest for their T-X bids ahead of the RFP release..... :hyper: .....

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/med ... n-heats-up

Quote:
"WASHINGTON — Just weeks or perhaps days before the final T-X request for proposals drops, defense contractors are pulling out all the stops to ramp up enthusiasm for their offerings.

With the US Air Force’s top three aircraft priorities — the F-35 joint strike fighter, B-21 bomber and KC-46 refueling tanker — all under contract, the T-X trainer is the service’s last big aircraft competition on the horizon. Unless a new contender enters the ring, the battle will boil down to two clean-sheet designs — from Northrop Grumman and a Boeing-Saab team — versus two existing airframes put forward by prime contractors Lockheed Martin and Raytheon."



Let the games begin :!:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Oykie
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:58 pm

Firs flig was successfully accomplished today

Image
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 11036
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:21 pm

 
Ozair
Posts: 1793
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:40 pm

Oykie wrote:
Firs flig was successfully accomplished today


Perhaps it is the angle but there is something almost Macross about that design...
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 4008
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:14 am

Why did they perform the first light with two people? Guess it is more then capable to fly solo in the thing. Just wondering.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 5805
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:50 am

Test Engineer in the back? Looks like a Hornaguar.
 
User avatar
SAS A340
Posts: 777
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 5:59 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:12 pm

Looks very sharp :)
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
RonS
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:28 pm

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/B ... /4133103/L

Cheers to Boeing on a successful first flight yesterday. I think they have an excellent chance with winning the bid, especially since they have one flying compared to just a concept.
All opinions expressed by me are my own opinions & do not represent the opinions in any way of my employers.
 
User avatar
bikerthai
Posts: 2305
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:08 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Why did they perform the first light with two people? Guess it is more then capable to fly solo in the thing. Just wondering.


Don't commercial airlines fly with two pilots on first flight also? My guess is, besides having redundant systems, it is safer to have redundant pilots in case something goes wrong.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
angad84
Posts: 1936
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:58 pm

RonS wrote:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boeing/Boeing-BTX-1-T-1/4133103/L

Cheers to Boeing on a successful first flight yesterday. I think they have an excellent chance with winning the bid, especially since they have one flying compared to just a concept.

I mean... Lockheed, Raytheon and Northrop Grumman all have flying prototypes out there.

Granted, Boeing and Lockheed look closest to 'ready,' but still.

Cheers
A
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 10308
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:23 pm

Looks good at first sight.

Is there any known preference for single our dual engine?

Is it about meeting minimum requirements at minumum cost, or are additional points award for addition capability?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:33 am

keesje wrote:
Looks good at first sight.

Is there any known preference for single our dual engine?

Is it about meeting minimum requirements at minumum cost, or are additional points award for addition capability?


I believe sustainability costs will be looked at closely; obviously, a dual engine configuration would cost more to own and operate than an equivalent single engine configuration.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:32 am

keesje wrote:
Looks good at first sight.

Is there any known preference for single our dual engine?

Is it about meeting minimum requirements at minumum cost, or are additional points award for addition capability?


The Air Force released it's final T-X trainer RFP just yesterday and it didn't vary from the initial requirements. The only incentive for additional capabilities is monetary if the aircraft can reach a higher sustained G level than the minimum required and higher AOAs. As previously reported on this forum, there is no mention of bonus points for combat capabilities. Personally I think it'll be a dual engine since that philosophy has been ingrained in the training comment bailiwicks for decades. We still remember calling the F-16 the 'lawn dart' in the 80's as their motor failed at an alarming rate. They did get it fixed though.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:21 am

RetiredWeasel wrote:

The Air Force released it's final T-X trainer RFP just yesterday and it didn't vary from the initial requirements. The only incentive for additional capabilities is monetary if the aircraft can reach a higher sustained G level than the minimum required and higher AOAs. As previously reported on this forum, there is no mention of bonus points for combat capabilities. Personally I think it'll be a dual engine since that philosophy has been ingrained in the training comment bailiwicks for decades. We still remember calling the F-16 the 'lawn dart' in the 80's as their motor failed at an alarming rate. They did get it fixed though.

Would disagree that having dual engines would be a net benefit; in fact, it would very likely be something that would be considered a negative in the evaluation criteria. Costs will be a MAJOR factor in the decision criteria and both purchase price and costs to sustain (parts, maintenance, fuel economy) would be major factors in the decision. They will likely go with the cheapest, low risk aircraft that they can buy and sustain over the long run. I would have significant question marks over any clean sheet design because of the risk factor involved in flight testing the aircraft, which could add costs and delays, and from my reading of the situation, is something that the USAF would be fairly adverse to for a trainer.

I believe the Lockheed Martin's T-50A ticks off all of the boxes in that regards; meets all of the requirements, is capable of inflight refueling, is in production, and thus low risk and a known quantity. Also, because it is also an in-production type, it would have an advantage in the unit costs.
 
RetiredWeasel
Posts: 517
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:57 am

ThePointblank wrote:
Would disagree that having dual engines would be a net benefit; in fact, it would very likely be something that would be considered a negative in the evaluation criteria. Costs will be a MAJOR factor in the decision criteria and ........etc


Your reasoning is sound, but I've seen other priorities pop up that overpower reasoning. And with a new Pres, I have no idea how the defense industry will be lined up on the totem pole. We may find out in a 'Tweet' within a year or so.
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 10308
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:05 am

It seems the Northrop TX is the lowest cost design and the LM and T-50 offerings the most capable. The Boeing design seems a kind of inbetween. All based on first looks of course.. :scratchchin:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
himself
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:02 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:29 am

keesje wrote:
It seems the Northrop TX is the lowest cost design and the LM and T-50 offerings the most capable. The Boeing design seems a kind of inbetween. All based on first looks of course.. :scratchchin:


Is there a price list for these T-X candidates? Got a link? I think I saw somewhere, (maybe in these threads) estimates between $18-24 million for the T-50 and T-100, but how do you figure the Northrop plane is cheapest?

Also, exactly what is the initial contract on? If it's for all 350 aircraft and the ground-based training systems, then knocking off $135 million from a $10 billion contract for extra performance seems insignificant..
 
User avatar
keesje
Posts: 10308
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:21 am

The eye of an aerospace guy I guess. On the NG offering I see a lighter landing gear, single small engine, lean nose for small radar. My impression is the goal here was to meet the minimum requirements at the lowest cost. The LM and T50 seem capable of significant war loads, g's for a secondary strike role. Again first impression. The Boeing design seems lighter than those two but still capable. Today sustem complexity and development progress weigh in big in large project though.,
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 5805
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Boeing T-X First Flight?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:49 am

I think we have not seen enough of the NG design to decide on it. The landing gear seems to be from the T-38 but the T-38 also spawned the successful F-5. The engine is a F404 version, the same as used by the T-50 and the Boeing design. The frontal aspect shots show a nice mix between a T-38 and a Mirage 2000 for me

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos