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FoxtrotSierra
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Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:13 am

Besides JFK and DEN which are well known as having runways that are never used at full length, were there any other airports with runways long enough?
 
FlyHossD
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:21 am

FoxtrotSierra wrote:
Besides JFK and DEN which are well known as having runways that are never used at full length, were there any other airports with runways long enough?


Seems like AMA and Vandenburg had some long ones, too.

Also, you shouldn't assume that the full length of DEN's 34L/16R isn't needed. I remember needing it for a fully loaded (jumpsuits included) 733 take off one summer day (DEN-EWR). That is, we could not have departed at that weight from any of the other runways.
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Stitch
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:32 am

Based on the list of Space Shuttle alternate landing sites, their runways are all 3000 meters or longer. So if the sole criteria is runway length, any one with a length of over 3000 meters would meet that criteria.

The emergency field list is much longer, but looks like 2600m (YTT) might be the minimum.
 
hoons90
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:35 am

Upington, South Africa (UTN) - 4,900m / 16,076ft

Hoedspruit, South Africa (HDS) was actually designated as an emergency space shuttle landing site despite its shorter runway length (3,991m / 13,094ft).
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dwachdorf
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:56 am

Wasn't 8R/26L at HNL also built for the space shuttle as well?
 
MO11
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:35 am

I remember being briefed that CEF was an alternate landing site.
 
PC12Fan
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:43 am

When I worked there, I heard rumors that STL was on the list as well. Fits the criteria with 12R/30L at 11,019 ft.
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Mortyman
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:49 am

From Wikipedia:


Emergency landing sites[edit]

Pre-determined emergency landing sites for the orbiter were determined on a mission-by-mission basis according to the mission profile, weather and regional political situations. Emergency landing sites during the shuttle program included:[14][15]
Cites in which an orbiter has landed are listed in bold, but none is an emergency landing.

Algeria
Aguenar – Hadj Bey Akhamok Airport, Tamanrasset

Australia
Kingsford-Smith International Airport, Sydney, New South Wales (until 1986)[16]
RAAF Base Amberley, Ipswich, Queensland
RAAF Base Darwin, Darwin, Northern Territory
RAAF Base Pearce, Perth, Western Australia

Bahamas
Lynden Pindling International Airport, Nassau

Barbados
Sir Grantley Adams International Airport, Bridgetown[17][18][19]

Bermuda
NAS Bermuda, St. David's Island

Canada[20]
CFB Goose Bay, Goose Bay, Labrador
CFB Namao, Edmonton, Alberta (until 1994)[21]
Gander International Airport, Gander, Newfoundland
Stephenville International Airport, Stephenville, Newfoundland
St. John's International Airport, St. John's, Newfoundland
Halifax Stanfield International Airport, Halifax, Nova Scotia

Cape Verde
Amílcar Cabral International Airport, Sal Island

Chile
Mataveri International Airport, Easter Island

France
Istres-Le Tubé Air Base near Istres, France[22]
Hao Airport, Hao, French Polynesia

The Gambia
Yundum International Airport, Banjul

Germany
Köln Bonn Airport, Cologne
Ingolstadt Manching Airport, Ingolstadt

Greece
Souda Air Base, Souda Bay, Crete

Iceland
Keflavík International Airport, Keflavík

Ireland
Shannon Airport, Shannon, County Clare

Liberia
Roberts International Airport, Monrovia (until 1989)

Morocco
Ben Guerir Air Base, Morocco (1988-2002)
Mohammed V International Airport, Morocco (until 1986)

Portugal
Lajes Field, Lajes
Beja Airbase, Beja

Saudi Arabia
King Khalid International Airport, Riyadh

Spain
Zaragoza Air Base
Morón Air Base
Gran Canaria Airport, Gran Canaria

Somalia
Berbera Airport, Berbera[23] (inactive since 1991)

South Africa
South African Air Force Base Hoedspruit

Sweden
Arlanda Airport, Stockholm

Turkey
Esenboğa International Airport, Ankara

United Kingdom
RAF Greenham Common, Berkshire, England (from 1981)
RAF Brize Norton, Oxfordshire, England
RAF Fairford, Gloucestershire, England
RAF Finningley, South Yorkshire, England (until 1996)
RAF Machrihanish, Campbeltown, Scotland
RAF Mildenhall, Suffolk, England
RAF Upper Heyford, Oxfordshire, England (until 1993)

British Overseas Territories
NAF Diego Garcia, British Indian Ocean Territory

United States
Andersen Air Force Base, Guam
Atlantic City International Airport, Pomona, New Jersey
Bangor International Airport, Bangor, Maine
Bradley International Airport, Windsor Locks (Hartford), Connecticut
MCAS Cherry Point, Havelock, North Carolina
Columbus Air Force Base, Columbus, Mississippi
Dover Air Force Base, Dover, Delaware
Dyess Air Force Base, Abilene, Texas
East Texas Regional Airport, Longview, Texas
Edwards Air Force Base, California
Ellsworth Air Force Base, Rapid City, South Dakota
Elmendorf Air Force Base, Anchorage, Alaska
Fort Huachuca, Arizona, Sierra Vista, Arizona
Francis S. Gabreski Airport, Long Island, New York
Grant County International Airport, Moses Lake, Washington
Grand Forks Air Force Base, Grand Forks, North Dakota
Griffiss International Airport, Rome, New York
Grissom Air Force Base, Kokomo, Indiana
Hickam Air Force Base, Honolulu, Hawaii
John F. Kennedy International Airport, New York, New York
Lehigh Valley International Airport, Allentown, Pennsylvania
Lincoln Airport, Lincoln, Nebraska
Mountain Home Air Force Base, Mountain Home, Idaho
Myrtle Beach International Airport, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
Orlando International Airport, Orlando, Florida
Otis Air National Guard Base, Falmouth, Massachusetts
Pease Air Force Base, Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Plattsburgh Air Force Base, Plattsburgh, New York
Portsmouth International Airport, Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Stewart Air National Guard Base, Newburgh, New York
Westover Air Force Base, Chicopee, Massachusetts
White Sands Space Harbor, White Sands, New Mexico
Wilmington International Airport, Wilmington, North Carolina[24]
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio

Democratic Republic of the Congo
N'djili Airport, Kinshasa (until 1997)

Other locations

In the event of an emergency deorbit that would bring the orbiter down in an area not within range of a designated emergency landing site, the orbiter was theoretically capable of landing on any paved runway that was at least 3 km (9,800 ft) long, which included the majority of large commercial airports. In practice, a US or allied military airfield would have been preferred for reasons of security arrangements and minimizing the disruption of commercial air traffic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shu ... ding_sites
 
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ClipperYankee
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:40 am

I watched one landing at KSC (and half a dozen lift-offs) and it would have been a sight to see a shuttle land at a place like JFK.
Boy, do I ever miss the program. Greatest show on Earth.
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Slug71
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:06 pm

I've heard LMT was an emergency site too.
 
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cpd
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:09 pm

ClipperYankee wrote:
I watched one landing at KSC (and half a dozen lift-offs) and it would have been a sight to see a shuttle land at a place like JFK.
Boy, do I ever miss the program. Greatest show on Earth.


It would have been a huge event if it had landed at either KJFK or YSSY. I wonder what the procedures would have been at either of these airports if it did come in. Especially given how populated the surrounding areas are.
 
sphealey
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:04 am

cpd wrote:
ClipperYankee wrote:
I watched one landing at KSC (and half a dozen lift-offs) and it would have been a sight to see a shuttle land at a place like JFK.
Boy, do I ever miss the program. Greatest show on Earth.


It would have been a huge event if it had landed at either KJFK or YSSY. I wonder what the procedures would have been at either of these airports if it did come in. Especially given how populated the surrounding areas are.

Lee Correy's novel _Shuttle Down_ covered that topic ;-) Technical detail seemed reasonable, although as it turned out the shuttle never launched from Vandenberg.
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Which runways would've been long enough for the Shuttle?

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:39 pm

cpd wrote:
ClipperYankee wrote:
I watched one landing at KSC (and half a dozen lift-offs) and it would have been a sight to see a shuttle land at a place like JFK.
Boy, do I ever miss the program. Greatest show on Earth.


It would have been a huge event if it had landed at either KJFK or YSSY. I wonder what the procedures would have been at either of these airports if it did come in. Especially given how populated the surrounding areas are.


I think trans-Atlantic aborts results in something like a minimum 15 minutes warning for the airport to clear a runway. This is because the earliest possible aborts begin after the solid boosters separate, at a speed of around 3000 mph, if I remember right. They then continue on the main engines to a cutoff that allows them to ditch the tank and glide the rest of the way. NASA had personnel on-site at the designated landing locations at each launch, and I assume air traffic control had a procedure to follow for clearing the runway and diverting traffic if needed.

An abort-once around gives about 80 minutes warning.

The landing site for returning from orbit is pretty much set in stone at the time of the entry burn, so that provides a minimum 45 minutes.

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