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keesje
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Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:34 pm

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:09 pm

I think it will be a while before we see the first one roll out.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:38 pm

keesje wrote:
Who will have the first photo?

Probably Google (Maps) but they also probably have a requirement to remove any "secret" items from such images prior to posting online in their Earth Maps.

Tugg
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PaddyOMaddy
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:38 am

This may be a stupid question, but why is it not called the B-3?
 
Ozair
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:35 am

PaddyOMaddy wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but why is it not called the B-3?

Just guessing but perhaps because the B-2 was an NG aircraft and the B-21 is also an NG aircraft. Also everything we know to date appears to suggest the B-21 will essentially be a new B-2, given it is subsonic, likely two bomb bays, likely four engines, reasonably similar flying wing profile.

I've also seen some comments suggesting the "21" stands for 21st century so perhaps the USAF PR folks had a hand in it.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:47 pm

I remember when Northrup Grumman had the floor open to the public for name suggestions. One of the top results was Nukey McMeltface.

Ozair wrote:

I've also seen some comments suggesting the "21" stands for 21st century so perhaps the USAF PR folks had a hand in it.

*puts on tinfoil hat* Similar to the Irkut MS-21... :scratchchin:
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QuarkFly
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:50 pm

Ozair wrote:
...Also everything we know to date appears to suggest the B-21 will essentially be a new B-2, given it is subsonic, likely two bomb bays, likely four engines, reasonably similar flying wing profile...


I believe that although the B21 looks like the B2...it is smaller, so could be a single bomb-bay? And I thought it was already indicated that the B21 would be a twin engine aircraft. Pratt won the B21 engine contract and will likely use a version of the F135 from the F35 -- a 30-klb thrust engine -- four of them would be way too much power and weight for a subsonic aircraft smaller than the B2.
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Ozair
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:54 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
I believe that although the B21 looks like the B2...it is smaller, so could be a single bomb-bay?

Not sure about one larger bomb bay against two smaller but is certainly possible. To me there is some redundancy in two smaller bays equipped with rotary launchers and we have seen even with smaller cranked kite aircraft such as the X-47B there are two smaller bays.

I indicated in the previous thread that I expect the B-21 to have some form of self defensive A2A missile so perhaps one large bomb bay and two smaller A2A bays that may also handle small A2G ordnance?
QuarkFly wrote:
And I thought it was already indicated that the B21 would be a twin engine aircraft. Pratt won the B21 engine contract and will likely use a version of the F135 from the F35 -- a 30-klb thrust engine -- four of them would be way too much power and weight for a subsonic aircraft smaller than the B2.

You’re right, found this reference indicating as such,

James said the twin-engine B-21 will allow the Air Force to operate in a "high-end threat environment" and give the Air Force the flexibility to launch airstrikes from the continental United States, attacking anywhere in the world.

http://www.courant.com/hc-pratt-b-21-en ... story.html
Agree on using the F135 or a minimal modified derivative of. There is great growth potential in the engine and, in that size range, the AETP being funding by the US requires compatibility with the F-35 so an enduring support chain and upgrade program will be available. The GE AETP is looking to provide the following,
GE's adaptive cycle, three-stream engine extends aircraft operating range by more than 30%, improves fuel consumption by 25% and increases thrust by more than 10%. With the AETP and follow-on development programs, GE's engine could be ready to power the US military's most advanced combat jets.

https://www.geaviation.com/press-releas ... ontract-us

I do expect them to maximise the electrical generation potential as I see the B-21 with a directed energy weapon from IOC with the capacity for further upgrade so additional excess thrust is highly probable.
Whatever eventuates though, I'm expecting to have a lot of interesting conversations over the next 7-10 years as more details are released.

Mods, not sure if it is possible with the current software but would be a great feature of the forum to have a couple of posts fixed at the top of the thread with all the facts and their references on configuration, capability and intent. Would probably stop a lot of unnecessary back and forth we have seen in some of the other enduring threads.
 
SCAT15F
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:20 pm

Given that the F135 has 28,000 lbs dry and will certainly get a larger fan for a better subsonic efficiency, I can see the derivative for the B-21 having 36-40,000 lbs thrust.
 
Ozair
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:08 am

SCAT15F wrote:
Given that the F135 has 28,000 lbs dry and will certainly get a larger fan for a better subsonic efficiency, I can see the derivative for the B-21 having 36-40,000 lbs thrust.

Indeed, PW is already promising an initial improvement.
Pratt & Whitney can now offer a Growth Option 1.0 upgrade configuration for the F135 engine, which powers the fifth generation F-35 Lightning II fighter aircraft. The engine testing, conducted at Pratt & Whitney's West Palm Beach, FL, facility, verified this upgrade can provide a 5 to 6 percent fuel burn improvement and a 6 to10 percent thrust increase across the F-35 flight envelope.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 66212.html
 
iamlucky13
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:28 pm

Ozair wrote:
PaddyOMaddy wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but why is it not called the B-3?

Just guessing but perhaps because the B-2 was an NG aircraft and the B-21 is also an NG aircraft. Also everything we know to date appears to suggest the B-21 will essentially be a new B-2, given it is subsonic, likely two bomb bays, likely four engines, reasonably similar flying wing profile.

I've also seen some comments suggesting the "21" stands for 21st century so perhaps the USAF PR folks had a hand in it.


That is correct. Here's the USAF press release on the designation:
http://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/ ... ke-bomber/

I'd have preferred they stick with some sort of semi-coherent numbering scheme, but I don't suppose a 21 will show up on radar any more easily than a 3.
 
Ozair
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:51 pm

First significant news for the program.

B-21 bomber finishes preliminary design review, and Air Force official is 'comfortable' with progress

A U.S. Air Force official told a Senate subcommittee Wednesday that the new B-21 bomber has completed its preliminary design review and that he was "comfortable" with the progress made by builder Northrop Grumman Corp. The bomber is now on its way to critical design review, said Lt. Gen. Arnold Bunch Jr., the military deputy of the office of the assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition. Citing the "nature of the work," Bunch declined to go into further detail about how the Air Force planned to spend the $2.3 billion it requested for the bomber program for fiscal year 2019 when asked by Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas). However, he said the program was "continuing engineering manufacturing development" and "some of those risk reduction areas."

The first set of software for the platform has been delivered, and the program is getting "set up" for the next set of software to come in, Bunch told the Senate Armed Forces Subcommittee on Airland during a hearing about Air Force modernization efforts.

"We're making everything ready to begin our test program in the future," he said. "We're making good progress. I'm comfortable today with where we're at, and the progress that Northrop Grumman is making on the program."

Northrop Grumman, which won the bomber contract in 2015, is building the aircraft at its plant in Palmdale. The plant also churns out the Global Hawk high-altitude surveillance drone for the Air Force, the closely related Triton drone for the Navy and the center fuselage for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-b ... story.html

The article states US$2.3 billion for the program in 2019 which is a decent slice of funding. I also wonder when we will see the first prototype given there is no indication as yet to a delay to IOC which was supposed to be ten years after contract sign.
 
mmo
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:39 am

Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/
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Chaostheory
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:15 pm

mmo wrote:
Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/


The USAF already has a huge issue with pilot shortages. How do they plan on pumping out even more crews? Are we going to see attrition in the transport or fighter squadrons?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:47 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
mmo wrote:
Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/


The USAF already has a huge issue with pilot shortages. How do they plan on pumping out even more crews? Are we going to see attrition in the transport or fighter squadrons?


Well if the crew is going from 4+ down to 2 maybe they're thinking of retraining other bomber crew members into pilots?
 
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Slug71
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:29 pm

mmo wrote:
Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/


Interesting. With the advancements in ICBMs and cruise missiles, I'd have thought the future is moving in that direction and therefore less demand of bombers.
 
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:56 pm

Slug71 wrote:
mmo wrote:
Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/


Interesting. With the advancements in ICBMs and cruise missiles, I'd have thought the future is moving in that direction and therefore less demand of bombers.


Remember that the B21 is going to be quite a bit smaller in raw payload compared to the B-1 and B-52. And with the increase of precision weapons and the loitering of CAS missions the bombers are doing they may end up being used more compared to the BUFF and Bone.
 
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:29 pm

Chaostheory wrote:
mmo wrote:
Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/


The USAF already has a huge issue with pilot shortages. How do they plan on pumping out even more crews? Are we going to see attrition in the transport or fighter squadrons?

Well my thoughts on it are: I would bet money that the B-21, while intended to be crewed, will be designed to integrate pilotless features or full systems. While I don't think it means full autonomous capability, I would not be surprised if slaved flight was not possible (two or three on a run with one lead bomber in control etc.). This will increase capability while decreasing crew needed.

Tugg
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mmo
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Re: Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider Production And Delivery Thread

Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:47 pm

ZaphodHarkonnen wrote:
Slug71 wrote:
mmo wrote:
Just a bit more on the B-21.

Looks as if the USAF will try to purchase more than the 100 talked about. Currently there are 9 Bomb Squadrons and the 100 had been planned to cover replacements for the B-1 and B-2 with the balance used for training. The USAF would like to increase the numbers in each squadron and then increase the number of squadrons from 9 to 14-16.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-447860/


Interesting. With the advancements in ICBMs and cruise missiles, I'd have thought the future is moving in that direction and therefore less demand of bombers.


Remember that the B21 is going to be quite a bit smaller in raw payload compared to the B-1 and B-52. And with the increase of precision weapons and the loitering of CAS missions the bombers are doing they may end up being used more compared to the BUFF and Bone.


Of course, you do realize the BUFF is planned on flying until sometime into the 2050s. So, new engine and upper wing reskin will need to be accomplished.
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