bunumuring
Topic Author
Posts: 2207
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:34 pm

Hey guys,
Any news on NZ's plans to replace its Hercules, Orions and 757s.
With the recent change of government, has anything been announced?
It seemed likely that the A400M was lined up to replace the Hercules and possibly Poseidons to replace the Orions. Wasn't some kind of approach made to the US about the latter?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
Ozair
Posts: 1978
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:51 pm

bunumuring wrote:
Hey guys,
Any news on NZ's plans to replace its Hercules, Orions and 757s.
With the recent change of government, has anything been announced?
It seemed likely that the A400M was lined up to replace the Hercules and possibly Poseidons to replace the Orions. Wasn't some kind of approach made to the US about the latter?
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

I thought the US approved an FMS case for the P-8 and that the C-2 was a real possibility.

viewtopic.php?t=1351595
 
GDB
Posts: 12914
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:20 pm

There are pics on the database from when this subject was last discussed, including a RAF A400M on a visit to NZ.
As stated though, change of government, not that any order for new transports was apparently close to being confirmed.
Though there is anything wrong with the C-2 as an aircraft, I doubt the RNZAF will go for it. I suspect operating similar types to the RAAF will prevail, which means C-130J's. Which makes sense for them both operationally and in economics.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:13 pm

No news I've heard of. My understanding is that they're the next big project after the new fleet supply ship.

The transport replacement will probably be largely determined by any requirement for Antarctic use. If that's a must have, any replacement will need to be able to do a round trip with no refueling and a payload. The previous government had a nasty scare when they nearly lost a 757 with a senior minister on it. Though not to sure anyone would've missed McCully. ;)
My bet is on the KC-390 actually. Jet altitude and speed should help give it the range and it isn't too big either. A400 is possible depending on how much of a discount they're willing to give. But that's for the MoD and NZDF to decide.

As for maratime patrol, depends on how much they want to spend. Top end gets you the P-8 but that may be too rich unless the government starts taxing the stupid wealthy and companies cheating funds offshore.

And a Jpanaese P-1/C-2 joint deal is always a possibility.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:10 am

I was just thinking of this and wondered if anything had been mentioned in the Briefing for the Incoming Minister since we had the new government.

And there's one mention of the Orions but nothing about the Hercs or 757s.

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/defau ... efence.pdf
Future Air Surveillance Capability – Maritime Patrol Aircraft
For 60 years the Defence Force’s fleet of six P-3K2 Orions have undertaken military deployments and contributed to stewardship of New Zealand’s maritime area of responsibility from the South Pole to the equator, including the fourth-largest Exclusive Economic Zone. The aircraft and their sensors have been upgraded several times but they are now beyond further upgrades. The Defence White Paper 2016
concluded that the Orions needed to be replaced in the mid-2020s. Replacement options have been considered, and we will shortly recommend to you a proposed first step towards modernising New Zealand’s military and whole of government maritime surveillance capabilities


So sounds like we should be hearing something in the next few months I would imagine.
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 1734
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:26 pm

Wow, I didn't know New Zealand's maritime area of responsibility is all the way from the South Pole to the equator. Is there any P-8 competitor with better range? It's capable of 1200 nm operational range, with 4 hours on station. I'm guessing the P-8 would be the best choice, since Australia also operates them.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:53 pm

The Japanese P-1 is the other obvious choice. That if the NZ government decides that level of range and capability is needed. It's entirely possible that a smaller platform like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EADS_CASA_C-295 may be chosen to try and keep costs down.

We don't know what the RFP will include. And until then we can't really guess at what will be considered as it could be all over the place.

Personally my money is on a slightly stripped down P-8. The government will probably skimp on subsurface capability with the ami being ability to search large amounts of surface quickly. As that tends to be what the Orions are used for currently.
 
bunumuring
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:56 pm

Re: NZ Hercules Orion and 757 replacements

Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:13 pm

Hey guys,
Thanks for the info.
What impact will the switch from NG to MAX have on the P-8 production line? I seem to recall that there would be a limited time frame for additional Poseidon orders due to Boeing eventually terminating NG production and not having plans to develop (yet) a MAX-based Poseidon derivative....
I believe that Korea, Saudi Arabia and Singapore were also mentioned as near-term P-8 possibilities for the same reason.
Cheers,
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!

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