User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 17866
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:47 pm

Seems the new coalition government coming together in Germany is upsetting Airbus:

A coalition deal between German Chancellor Angela Merkel and the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), which must still be ratified by the SPD, has pledged an immediate ban on arms sales to countries involved in the war in Yemen and a tougher approach to arms sales in general.

I guess the press can't bring itself to mention Saudi Arabia by name, eh?

“A unilateral restriction on European arms exports by Germany not only hurts domestic industry, but also reduces the room for maneuver of a strategic European security and defense policy,” said Hoke, who is German.

More like "reduces our room for profit".

“Many European partners already do not consider us a reliable partner because our arms export policies change depending on the outcome of our elections,” he said.

Same as it ever was.

Hoke also joined criticism of Germany for not meeting NATO countries’ agreement to spend 2 percent of their annual economic output on defense by 2024.

Germany, Europe’s biggest economy, is not expected to reach that target by then.

“The defense budget situation is not helpful and will lead to a decidedly difficult position for Germany in Europe,” Hoke said. “With just 1.2 percent of economic output, we are falling short of our responsibilities in Europe.”

“If Germany wants to get anywhere near meeting the obligations (to NATO) that were once again reiterated in the coalition agreement, there must be significant increases in the military budget,” he said.

Reminds me of an old joke: "Never ask a barber if he thinks you need a haircut".

Seems his pleas for more defense spending are futile, no?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
WIederling
Posts: 6049
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
Seems his pleas for more defense spending are futile, no?


Don't despair, Lügen Ulla the transatlantic prostitute is here! ( lousy rhyming, I know.)
Guess why no German A400M is in flying conditions.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 17866
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:50 pm

WIederling wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems his pleas for more defense spending are futile, no?


Don't despair, Lügen Ulla the transatlantic prostitute is here! ( lousy rhyming, I know.)

Your enigmatic post has defeated my modern day Enigma machine.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
Ozair
Posts: 2460
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:17 pm

Revelation wrote:
Your enigmatic post has defeated my modern day Enigma machine.

Good to know it isn’t just me, I scratch my head sometimes at the relevance and context…

Revelation wrote:
Seems the new coalition government coming together in Germany is upsetting Airbus:
A coalition deal between German Chancellor Angela Merkel and the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), which must still be ratified by the SPD, has pledged an immediate ban on arms sales to countries involved in the war in Yemen and a tougher approach to arms sales in general.


In the context of future German acquisitions this probably ends any potential for an American aircraft (F-35) to replace the Tornado, and Germany to end their involvement in NATO nuclear sharing. It also probably ensures either the Tornado soldiers on or is retired and not replaced with anything…
 
mxaxai
Posts: 448
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am

Ozair wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems the new coalition government coming together in Germany is upsetting Airbus:
A coalition deal between German Chancellor Angela Merkel and the center-left Social Democrats (SPD), which must still be ratified by the SPD, has pledged an immediate ban on arms sales to countries involved in the war in Yemen and a tougher approach to arms sales in general.


In the context of future German acquisitions this probably ends any potential for an American aircraft (F-35) to replace the Tornado, and Germany to end their involvement in NATO nuclear sharing. It also probably ensures either the Tornado soldiers on or is retired and not replaced with anything…

Mind explaining the connection between your thoughts and the quote? While the new government's deals may have that effect, the quote regarding the war in Yemen should not concern internal German affairs and acquisitions.
 
Ozair
Posts: 2460
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:15 am

mxaxai wrote:
Ozair wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Seems the new coalition government coming together in Germany is upsetting Airbus:


In the context of future German acquisitions this probably ends any potential for an American aircraft (F-35) to replace the Tornado, and Germany to end their involvement in NATO nuclear sharing. It also probably ensures either the Tornado soldiers on or is retired and not replaced with anything…

Mind explaining the connection between your thoughts and the quote? While the new government's deals may have that effect, the quote regarding the war in Yemen should not concern internal German affairs and acquisitions.

Just that if the new Coalition Government isn’t keen to export arms I consider them also less likely to focus on buying arms. I doubt Airbus is sounding this concern just for the export potential, they potentially foresee issues with continued German acquisition for domestic use.
 
Ozair
Posts: 2460
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:38 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:01 pm

The below article sums up the issues that German procurement is facing today, and illustrates well what Airbus is saying…

German Army facing 'big gaps' as spending cuts bite

Germany's armed forces are being pushed beyond their limits as Berlin makes greater international commitments while failing to invest in and reform the military, according to a report published on 20 February.
‘The army's readiness to deploy has not improved in recent years, but instead has got even worse,’ parliamentary armed forces commissioner Hans-Peter Bartels said as he presented his annual findings, pointing to ‘big gaps’ in personnel and equipment.
By the end of 2017, all Germany's submarines were in drydock for repairs, while in recent months there have been periods where none of the German Air Force's 14 A400M transport planes are airworthy.
The litany of disrepair continues through fighter planes, tanks, helicopters and ships lamed by bad planning and a lack of spare parts.
German Air force pilots are unable to train as their aircraft are grounded for maintenance for much of the year, the report noted.
Spending on defence has been cut repeatedly since 1990 and the end of the Cold War, leaving the army with often outdated equipment and the defence industry unable to suddenly increase production to fill the gaps.
Bartels said: ‘Despite government promises to find more cash, tasks for which there are supposed to be additional people and equipment in future are already upon us. Soldiers already have to accomplish them today as best they can, using whatever is to hand.’

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defe ... cuts-bite/
The report continues at the above link.

Is there enough funding, and the political will to spend it in the way that is necessary to return the German Military to a proficient force, within the new German Government?

From the article again,

‘We will make the best possible equipment, training and support available to our soldiers,’ German Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative CDU said in a coalition agreement sealed with the Social Democratic Party (SDP) that is still to be approved by SDP members.
But even if a prospective new Merkel government loosens the purse strings, ‘we wouldn't be in a position to spend more money with our present procurement structures,’ Bartels said.
 
mxaxai
Posts: 448
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:17 am

It should be clear that Airbus' concern is entirely their bottom line, and nothing else.

It should also be clear that financing for fancy new stuff is fairly easy to get. However, many projects exceed their budget, which leads to reductions of capability because the original budget cannot easily be expanded.

The main problem right now is not the age and design capability of most of the equipment but that the maintenance and staffing programs are either mismanaged or underfunded (or both). One reason for this is the lack of good maintenance contracts. Most contracts cover only the acquisition and some maintenance. They also often lack the possibility to take action against poor design, late delivery or being over budget. It is very easy for a supplier to claim that they could solve all problems if they just had more money, regardless of that being true or not. Look at the A400M where Airbus is more than willing to take a few million € in penalty payments in exchange for significant capability reductions.

One ongoing problem is the lack of skilled manpower as the Bundeswehr cannot compete with the salaries on the free market. This includes not only maintenance and operations but particularly lawyers and general (upper) management.

Finally, acquisition is a very political topic while maintenance is not. I would argue that these problems are to no small part due to internal mismanagement at medium and lower levels. It is easy to point fingers when all U-boats are undergoing repairs simultaneously but somebody obviously scheduled that and didn't notice or didn't care.

It's not always a funding issue.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 5485
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:12 am

Airbus isn't above the law, so elected officials can and constantly change policy.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Topic Author
Posts: 17866
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:50 am

mxaxai wrote:
It's not always a funding issue.

"Money doesn't buy happiness, but it buys a lot of other things!" :biggrin:

Suppose Germany was on track to be spending 2.0% of GDP as it has committed to, rather than being stuck at 1.2% and little political will to increase it.

Increasing one's already significant budget by 2/3rds can change a lot of things, IMHO.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own
 
WIederling
Posts: 6049
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
Increasing one's already significant budget by 2/3rds can change a lot of things, IMHO.


They would overstep that budget by just buying the missing spare parts.
The last "Kriegsminister" decided to only order spares when the direct need arose.
( Looks like the reason for grounded A400M. Not even maintenance articles were preordered.
... but it is obviously all Airbus fault.)

Our Warrior Amazone UvdL has not changed that but instead seems to have spent more money on
image building PR ( like in her ministerial jobs before.) and creating a nice storm in a tea cup on personal fire arms.

No A400M is servicable.
No sub is in working order ( 0 out of 6 ).
Only 9 from a target of 14 frigates actually exist at all.
Murphy is an optimist
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 893
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:49 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:50 am

W, are a400, subs and frigate programs cited above typical?
 
User avatar
BawliBooch
Posts: 1102
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:02 am

While it is essential for the West to tighten arms sales regulations to third world countries, it is also important that European defense industry stays competitive.

If American's are selling arms to X country, there is no reason for Europe to hold itself back and impose constraints on its industry.
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
parapente
Posts: 2490
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:21 am

Germany dictates European policy.whether it be economic or otherwise.It is of no interest to them what (other) countries are harmed (or helped in fact) by their actions.
They may have a view on a foreign political situation be it arms or immigration.But they translate those policies into 'European' ones and no other EU country can or will say a word.Mr Macron tries to pretend he's a 'partner' - as many have before him.But they all acquiesce just the same.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6049
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Airbus concerned about German coalition's tougher stance on arm sales

Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:15 pm

Planeflyer wrote:
W, are a400, subs and frigate programs cited above typical?


YES.
http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/19/007/1900700.pdf
look for "verfügbar"/"Verfügbarkeit" and feed the "surrounding" page through google translate.
( google balks on the full size document.)

As I wrote: former jobholder de Meziere effected that spares are only ordered after demand comes up.
No preemptive purchases. This seems to also hold for maintainance items.
the current holder did not change this in her 4+ years of tenure.

But she is rather outspoken on Airbus and other manufacturers being "Schuld".
Murphy is an optimist

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos