Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:24 am

Look at all the problems we have in the country today. Since we are already doing it on a limited basis, vis a vis welfare, WIC, etc, perhaps it's time for the US to take another look at how it operates. I think that we need to seriously consider adopting a Marxist system. After all, it is correct-in theory-if done correctly.
Most of our social ills can be boiled down to one common demoninator: the haves versus the have nots driven by greed. I am outraged that there are so many people (CEO's, and celebrities to name a couple) that make tens, if not, hundreds of millions of dollars a year, while millions of people cannot afford decent housing, health care, a decent car, or even food. If we were to redistribute the wealth a bit so that no one can legally amass a great wealth, everyone would have a home, a job, health care, and so on. The ghettos will become a thing of the past. If everyone is adequately fed, clothed, and housed, there would be no more robberies, thieves, or homeless people walking the streets which are such an eyesore. There would be no fighting on school grounds. No more corporate layoffs....the list goes on and on. Isn't sacrificing some of our "freedoms" worth the peace and harmony that we will have? The US is the wealthiest nation on earth. There is plenty to go around. It's time to put an end to this quest for profits insanity that costs us so much social discord, distrust, pollution, and under the table/back room dealings.
We can learn from the mistakes that the USSR made, and do it right!
Sorry, but i feel that the Constitution is out dated, and it's time for the government to do what it was supposed to do: take care of the people.

RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:29 am

HECK NO!!! We do not need to wait in lines for years for healthcare. We really like having a capitalist system.
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No No No No No

Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:38 am

No!!!! Socialisme has not brought any to good to the world at all. It only brings more taxes and less freedom to the people!! Fortunatly Swiss voters are intelligent and would never bring socialism to country by more than perhaps 25% for socialist party.
Matt D
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Whippy Needs A Whipping

Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:46 am

I cannot even fathom why you would make a suggestion as outlandish as that. What planet are you from? What are you, Communist or something?
If anything, we need to get RID of the quasi Socialism in place such as the welfare and food stamps that you mentioned. Usually the ones clamoring for wealth redistribution are the ones that blame "the system" for their own lack of ambition.
Get off your ass and get your own job. Don't try and take away what I worked hard for.
As for crime, thieves, and beggars, we can lock them up, or even better, take care of them once and for all if they ever show up inside my home........thank God for the 2nd ammendment.
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RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 8:52 am

Well, lets see...

Socialism is equal to communism and all our problems will be solved by building bigger prisons.

Matt, from the American south possibly?  

Thanks for the good laugh.

Carioca Canuck
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RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 9:09 am

If anybody in the USA wants to experience "socialism" first hand all they have to do is move to Canada.

They can take the place of all the Canadians that are leaving the country.

Your tax rate will go up to 48 %   in the maximum tax starts at $58,760 by the way. The maximum tax rate in the USA is about 30% I believe and it starts at $250,000. Your mortgage interest IS NOT tax deductable here also.

You will also pay a 7% federal tax, plus a provincial sales tax of between 5-10% on top of that (except in Alberta) on all purchases.

We DO NOT have free healthcare here either.

That is a LIE perpetrated by Prime Minister Poutine....err I mean Chretien.....and the bastard Liberal governemnt we have had that has ruined this country.

You will pay about $150 per month for health insurance and your employer will also match that amount as well. Combined with our much higher taxes and the fees you pay....this country is in real big trouble.

Our dollar is worth about one Brasilian Real.....we are really a thrid world country dressed up like a first world country.

And before you flame me......I will be one of those leaving in the next 12-18 months.

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RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 10:52 am

It's up to the American voters to see what they want. But I would say that it has worked for them so far, except for the social violence & exclusion.

There is no one-size fits all system. Some countries work better under capitalism, some under socialism. Europeans don't seem to mind high taxes in exchange for a more smooth society. That's fine. Americans don't mind large inequalities in exchange for better chances at "rich" success. That's fine too. Every middle of the road system has it's pros & cons. Any extreme is bad. Orthodox Socialism (communism, i.e Russia), & crony Capitalism (i.e Russia, again), are both bad.

I wouldn't call Canada exactly a "third world" country when they are rated 1 or 2nd in terms of the best country to live in, at least that's what the UN says.
But I can't say since I have never been there. But I have rarely heard bad stuff about Canada, eh? (Except the riots a couple of days ago).

Just an opinion from an Argentino, the only country on Earth that doesn't fit exactly in either the first or third world...

My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
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RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 12:45 pm

I am a firm believer that "there is no perfect system" and as such we are simply in a search to find the least undesirable political system.

As for socialism, it is flawed, IMO, in two ways. First of all, the utopic idea of government withering away didn't work, they say power corrupts and certainly looking at the past the leaders of communists states appeared to hang onto power. Because of this clinging to power, communism never actually happened, it was just something that was paraded as communism but it certainly didn't follow the guidlines of what it was supposed to be. The second failing of communist countries seems to be that because of the collective idea of property, there was little incentive to work for ones own betterment, so innovation and hard work weren't encouraged.

Socialism, however, does come in many degrees. I for one, however, have a very hard time in saying that anyone in true need of help shouldn't get it. I believe in a nation caring for it's people, but unfortunately it is an extremely difficult goal to achieve and to balance with capitalistic values as well, which drive innovation and economic growth. This is the goal of a mixed economy, which is far from perfect but does have some good (and bad) points from both socialist and capitalist systems.

Carioca Canuck, that is a perfectly valid point of view, but it is also worth noting that it is in a significant part the national debt that drives taxes, not just social program spending. Also, with regard to user fees, etc, they vary in provinces, but overall I think the idea of universal medicare and education are admirable goals and we should move more towards them, not away from them. Also, with regards to Mr. Chretien's government, it's pretty mediocre, but it's not altogether horrible, there have been worse (and better), I just hope that he retires now before something goes incredibly wrong instead of running for another term.
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To Freddy

Sun Jun 18, 2000 6:30 pm

Freddy, I thought I might just pick you up on this one; What (if anything) is wrong in being from the South? I am a southerner and darn proud of it! I can think of no life better than to live right here in the South. I'm sorry - I like my life.

(no longer directed toward Freddy)
I heartily agree with with Matt D - (as in politics I usually do) - we work hard for the bucks we make. What gives slackers like you the right to take that money away from us because you sit on your butts doing something akin to nothing?

And if someone takes weapons away they should prepare to experience the wrath of their own doing.

DO NOT TELL US HOW TO RUN OUR COUNTRY! Get off your butts and do someting!

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RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:59 pm

I don't think that you Americans know what socialism really is. Socialism is not the same as Communism. Socialism means higher taxes, but it also means that you get almost all public services for free. I my opinion the US is a terrible country, because your goverment does not manage to take care of all its citiezens. Poverty is high (compared with other Western countries) and even kids live on the street.

RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 10:14 pm

I’ve been advocating the finer aspects of limited socialism for years. Also some states such as Hawaii do provide health care to all it’s residents in the same way many European nations do, most Europeans are simply unaware of this.

Unfortunately I hate to stereotype, but yes people from the South in general (not all) see socialism as akin to communism and cannot make a distinction (their religion Southern Baptism teaches that it is evil). Very annoying to those of us from other states to see the national agenda dictated to by them.
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Southern Baptists And Socialism

Sun Jun 18, 2000 10:55 pm

Sosicalism is in many ways based on christian values and ideas in it surprises me that the Southern Baptists don't understand this. Jesus was actually the first socialist ever!

RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Mon Jun 19, 2000 5:19 am

If you've ever been to a Southern Baptist church and listened to some of the more extreme sermons it comes as no surprise.
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RE: Should The US Adopt Socialism?

Mon Jun 19, 2000 5:36 am

I have to agree w/N863DA on this. We all (most of us) have to work our asses off for our money. Yes i do not believe that socialism is the answer for the united states though. I think that if people cannot pay their taxes, or are on welfare or whatever, they should not vote. See i'm thinking, that might motivate some people to get out there and go for it!


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