mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 1:48 pm

I have to go plead innocent tomorrow morning to the PAULA ticket I got a couple weeks ago. (PAULA=Possession of Alcohol Under the Legal Age) My defense strategy is keep getting continuances so I can put off paying this SOB for as long as I can! Wish me luck.
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 1:57 pm

Well.....are you guilty as charged and are looking for a way to escape the consequences of your actions or were you wrongly charged?
If you are innocent, then I wish you the best. If not, then take it like a man. Show a little self respect and responsibility. Pay the fine, and be done with it. Why prolong the thorn in your side?
You can delay, delay and delay all you want. You're still going to have to pay your dues eventually.
Or just swallow your pride, pay it, and get it out of your life once and for all.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:37 pm

I believe I was approached by the officer without cause. The police raided the bar that night and were going after everyone. I WAS NOT holding an alcoholic beverage at the time the cop came up to us. I don't believe the officer had cause to give me the breathalyzer test. I blew a .03 whatever that is supposed to prove. I did have two and a half glasses of beer. I was not drunk. I was not acting drunk. I was just standing around a table talking to some friends. And if I were to get drunk, I was a 5 minute walk away from my house. I was a danger to no one.

So I got a possession just becuase the test showed there was alcohol in my system.

I feel I did nothing wrong. It's my values clashing with my societies values. If I was 500 miles away in Windsor, Ontario I wouldn't have been charged with anything. If I was in the bar 6 months from now I wouldn't be charged with anything. The law is so stupid. The police should be out writhing traffic tickets or something more important.
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:45 pm

The US police are the worst, I thought they where meant to protect and to serve but they seem to think there job is to screw people over. I think the US police think they are the most respected best police, but at the end of the day they are the worst. They do not help out people at all, the just try and get us in trouble.
Iain
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:50 pm

Well said. I lost a lot of respect for the local police after I got tagged with this stupid offense.
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 3:07 pm

I have never seen a police man give any respect to teenages, they look for things we do wrong, and think it is going to make a the country better. When they break up parties do they really think we go home, I will bet $100 that more laws are broken after the parties when the party's are in small groups with nothing to do!
Iain
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Thu Sep 28, 2000 10:55 pm

Well, I went in and entered a plea of not guilty to the assistant clerk of court. They were setting trial dates all the way into the end of Febuary! And then I told him that I wasn't going to be in the country between January and May. They were not pleased to hear this. So they're going to try and place me and this other guy in the same situation with earlier trial dates. I'm clear of it for the time being at least.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 12:10 am

What does it mean your values clashing with society's values? If your values said you could go ahead and commit murder and did so, would you plead not guilty because your values conflict with society's?

For once I'm forced to agree with MattD. You were drinking underage and got caught. You broke the law. Take some responsibility for your actions, pay the fine and be done with it. If you feel strongly enough about it, try working to get the law changed, or better yet, take a long weekend, go to Windsor and get trashed (just make sure you're sober for the drive home).

BTW, if you keep delaying, the case goes to trial and you're found guilty, the court costs are going to far outstrip what the fine would have been.
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

I Hope The Judge Reads This Thread ;-)

Fri Sep 29, 2000 12:17 am

It doesn't matter whether the officer had a good cause to breathalyze you. Say a cop accidentally caught a drug dealer the same way. Would you think it would be wrong to apprehend him because the cop didn't have a good reason to suspect him? Of course not! It's the same thing, just a lesser crime.

I'm not saying that the law is fair (depends on the circumstances too much), but since it exists it should be obeyed. If you disagree with it you might try to get it changed, but that doesn't give you permission to violate it.

It also doesn't matter that you're only 6 months under the legal age. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

If you were drinking and the law imposes a fine for that, then you're guilty.
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 12:39 am

Did you have to be 21 to be in the bar? If so, that is a strike against you. If it is 21, how did you get in the bar, flase identification?

I have seen similar situations with my friends, fortunately not myself. You could pay the fine get it over with (will it be on your record?) or get a lawyer and get deferred ajudification, or delay it forever and hope the "system" squeezes you out and drops the charges.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 12:57 am

In Iowa City there are some bars you can go to when you're 18, most 19, and some 21. The city council is working on making them 21 like most other Iowa Cities. I don't have nor do I need a fake ID. I just don'r drink enough to warrant the risk.

It's a misdemeanor offense that won't go on my record. Just a $145 bitch slap.

I don't think it's fair to compare my situation to a drug deal or murder. You can observe a drug deal going on. You cannot observe alcohol in someone's system. Murder is not legal for anyone unlike alcohol posession which is for 21+ year olds.
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 1:01 am

The fact is that you broke a law, however unjust the fact that you had came about, and however unjust the law may or may not be in the first place.

Whether he had cause to suspect you or not, you had alcohol in your system... a felony in the United States of America if you are under the age of 21. So, in essense, you did do something wrong - you drank. So you are guilty of what you were charged with, whether it's justified and sensible anyway.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 1:14 am

>>I don't think it's fair to compare my situation to a drug deal or murder. You can observe a drug deal going on. You cannot observe alcohol in someone's system. Murder is not legal for anyone unlike alcohol posession which is for 21+ year olds.<<

That may be, but it's not the point. You appear to be making excuses and blaming others as a means of avoiding responsibility for something you knew was illegal. You have to have known in the back of your mind you were risking a fine when you decided to go into the bar. You got caught. It's not the cop's fault. He was only doing his job.

Believing the law is an ass dosen't place you above it. Engaging in civil disobedience is one thing. Not being willing to face up to the consequences of doing so is quite another. Sorry pal. No sympathy.

Charles
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:33 am

I'm not asking for sympathy, nor am I blaming others.

I'm just ranting about a stupid policy.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 3:02 am

From where I sit you're trying to avoid taking responsibility for your actions. That's the whole point of what I am trying to say. It's also the one point you have not addressed.

Charles
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
N312RC
Posts: 2584
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 4:35 am

Take my advice, pay the d@mn fine and get on with life.
N/A
 
bombstar
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 9:37 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 6:18 am

Actually, murder is legal in some countries if you work in a prision on death row, especially in texas.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 6:40 am

Yes, I was drinking alcohol. You can burn me at the stake now. It's the circumstances under which I was caught that tick me off. If I was caught red-handed with a beer in my hand, I'd have accepted the fine without question. Same thing if I was being a drunken ass. But I wasn't, I was minding my own business until the police showed up to raid the bar.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:01 am

*sigh*

I give up.

Charles

P.S. Copper1, have you been following this?
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:13 am

Copper1 is Canadian I believe so I doubt he has ever issued any PAULAs to 20 year olds.
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: I Hope The Judge Reads This Thread ;-)

Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:34 am

This is so ridiculous that there are "raids" on underage drinking. Your profile says you are a university student, so I am assuming you are at least 18 - and they still tested.

Next time you want to get hammered make sure you come to Canada!
 
CPDC10-30
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm

RE: I Hope The Judge Reads This Thread ;-)

Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:41 am

Whoops, I mean I can't believe they ticketed you.

The US really needs to get their priorities straight on ridiculous laws like these...
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 7:49 am

Oh, and in case you're interested, I will construct my defense using the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (1791):

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Of course it's my opinion that the search was unreasonable. I had no alcohol with me. The cop asked if I had been drinking and I told him "No." So where did he have cause to search me?

I do agree that I'd be better off just paying the fine, but for $145 I get: a judges time, a city attorny's time, and a police officer's time which combined with the magistrate's and clerk's time I'm already responsible for using will cost the city even more than the $145 my ticket is for. And I even have a slim chance of not having to pay the $145. What better way do I have to get back at the city? (not that I'm entitled to 'get back' at them, I just want to)

And think about this: Why do we pay fines? Because we've harmed society and owe a debt. Well, who did I harm?
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 8:08 am

Yes, I dont really feel any compassion twards you, you are underage and drinking...if it was a fluke that you were drinking that night, maybe i would feel differnetly...but in your profile under "Hobbies" it says "drinking." so....burn burn burn!
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 8:10 am

That's there as a joke actually. I only drink about once a month.
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2000 2:46 pm

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 11:16 am

It seems that you drank underage. I don't know the US law but I'm sure that Police have the right to test people if they are just suspicious. Police know that people would lie. They know that
"Who in the right mind would admit underage drinking?"

$145 multiplied by 7.8 = HK$1131!

It does not seem to be much of a fine although I don't know relative prices in the US.

I'm in full agreement with Matt D.

BTW: Hope they don't test me right after I take communion. I dip the bread in the wine!
 
copper1
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 10:26 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Fri Sep 29, 2000 2:37 pm

Thanks for thinking of me guys. Yes I am a Canadian cop and in Ontario the drinking age is 19. I have charged 18 (and younger )year olds with underage drinking.

To Mls515, if you feel your constitutional rights have been violated under the 4th Amendment then I suggest you hire yourself a lawyer and fight for your rights.

If you have come her to this forum to complain about the actions of the Police you have come to the wrong spot. You need to head down to the local station house and speak to the commanding officer.

If you wanted someplace you could sound off you have found it.

Best of luck in whatever it is you decide to do.

Copper1

 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Sat Sep 30, 2000 12:28 am

You said:

I had no alcohol with me. The cop asked if I had been drinking and I told him "No."
So you've actually told a lie to the cop by saying no, since you have been drinking 2 beers.
I don't have any compation for you, you have to be responsible for your own action. I hope you'll end up paying the fine.

Too bad for ya.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Sat Sep 30, 2000 2:34 am

So what if I lied to the cop. Ever heard of the 5th amendment? The one about self incrimination? Oh yea, I don't recall asking for compassion, symapathy, or any of the like. I'm just ranting.
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Sat Sep 30, 2000 3:08 am

No sorry, since I'm not American I don't know much about your amendements! But what I know is that some people like to twist them so it fits their actions... probably what you are doing... Because I've never ever seen a country where lying to a cop is legal, and I highly doubt it is this way in the US.

But tell me a bit more about this 5th amendement, so i can see if you are right...

Nicolas Bourbillon
Montreal, Canada
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Sat Sep 30, 2000 3:24 am

What were you doing in the bar in the first place? You shouldn't have been there...
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Sun Oct 01, 2000 2:53 pm

Damn, I was going to let this thread slip off the screen since 'tomorrow' was last Thursday, the 28th but I'll answer a question or two. After this I probably won't respond publicly anymore.

The 5th ammendment basically states that you don't have to incriminate yourself. That's where the phrase "I plea the 5th" comes from if you've ever heard that. Perhaps my interpretation is flawed, who knows.

Why was I in the bar? It was a friend of a friend's 21st birthday so there was a small crowd gathered to make the most of the 25 pitchers for $21 birthday special and so I went to help them a little. There is no state law or city ordinance that disallows 18, 19 or 20 year old individuals from entering a bar where I live. The city council is currently considering adopting a new ordinance that would make it illegal for people under the age of 21 from entering bars, an ordinance I would actually support (no pressure to go out and drink).

I may start a new thread on this later if anything important happens.

Later All,

mls515
 
Guest

RE: Wish Me Luck In Court Tomorrow

Sun Oct 01, 2000 3:09 pm

It doesn't matter if you didn't want to incriminate yourself, if the officers ask you to take a breathalyzer test, you have to take it. It is not unreasonable search and seirzure to do so. It's like when they set up roadblocks and randomly pull people over and test them if they see fit. They had reasonable suspicion that you were drinking. Did you drink? Yes. Are you underage? Yes. Are you guilty? Yes. And that is what the judge will see. You broke the law. You lost. You're not going to get out of it. That is what you are pissed about. Admit it. You got caught, and will pay a fine which is gonna smart in your wallet. And you dont like that. Oh well.

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