Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 1:37 pm


Wed Oct 25, 2000 1:55 pm

I personally think that the SUV is an ok automobile. Now the problem with them is that they are going to soccer moms and people who aren't ever going to put em on a dirt road unless there is a detour and no way around! Now don't get me wrong you will probably call me one of the rest but yes we do own and SUV. Reasons why a:boat b:we're going to Alaska next summer minus a truck there is not much that can go heavy off the road and also holds lotsa stuff! But I think that they need to or should not have marketed the SUV as a family car and more of an off road car because look at how popular these things have gotten and it just is sad when all there used for is to "feel safer" they were not built for saftey they were built for off road purposes! If you wanted to feel safer go get and old 65 Ford Ranchero I mean it's steel right? Don't get an SUV unless you will actually take it off road! Hmmm I guess this turned out to be something that soccer moms don't need SUV's only people who will give em a work out.
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am


Wed Oct 25, 2000 1:58 pm

Those things are great for hauling PA equipment and guitar amps...i would have died w/o my dads expedition.
Chicks dig winglets.
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm


Wed Oct 25, 2000 9:51 pm

There was an interesting article on Dateline about them last night. They were saying that if you put the exploding tires on cars, they will not roll over, yet a SUV will. They also compared them to minivans, safety wise. Of rollovers, 141/million will die in a SUV rollover. 91/miliion will die in a minivan rollover. Of course later on in the show they said of half the rollover deaths in SUV's, the passenger wasn't wearing their seatbelt. So, lets assume the passengers in the vans were wearing their seatbelts. And if the half that didn't wear their seatbelts in the SUV had done so, chances are they would've lived there by cutting the accident deaths to:

SUV 71/million
Minivan 91/million

Which is safer when wearing your seatbelt now?

Which is safer at a highway speed head on, a Geo or an Excursion?

Which will get you through the winter better, a 4x4 SUV or a rear wheel drive Aerostar?

Which will tow your camper to the lake better?

Those are some of the things the analysis failed to mention. SUV's like all vehicles are as safe as the drivers make them.
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am


Wed Oct 25, 2000 10:33 pm

I agree that the problem isn't with SUVs, it's with their drivers. I've noticed that SUVs seem to be purchased and driven by people who need a bigger car to feel safe - namely, housewives and people who are skittish behind the wheel. Out of all the drivers I've seen doing stupid things on the road, I'd say a good 60% of them are driving SUVs. These are the same people who go 45 mph in snow and ice, thinking they are invincible. And because of their height and shorter wheel base, many SUVs are somewhat less stable cornering than other vehicles.

As for SUVs being built for off-road purposes, I know of NO ONE who has the bigger ones and uses them for that. Vehicles like the Toyota 4Runner, Jeep Cherokee, Ford Explorer and Chevrolet Tahoe probably wouldn't survive too well off the road, anyway. Then of course, there's the Chevrolet Suburban, Ford Expedition and other out-size vehicles which are big simply for the purpose of being big, and nothing else. I don't understand the reasoning behind these vehicles in the least.

My mum has alot of gripes with SUVs, but mainly due to the fact that since most of them are classified as trucks, they are not required to have emission controls on their engines. This means SUVs are responsible for a good deal of commercial vehicle pollution, because there are so many of them operating. I don't understand why auto manufacturers are required to put emission controls on the engines of some of their vehicles and not others. That's simply idiotic.

I did see a special last night on CNN about the new Dodge Durango powered by a hybrid engine - a standard V-6 and an electric motor which is charged by the friction generated during braking. What an excellent idea! Imagine that...a big vehicle than can hold 10 people and yet is efficient and pollutes much less than its counterparts! This is simply evidence that SUVs CAN be fuel efficient; it's just that the government and the auto industry are too lazy and complacent to make them so.


Wed Oct 25, 2000 11:00 pm

Remember most people buy the 2-wheel drive variants of SUV models. What does this tell you about them? 

And an increasing number of SUVs are based on cars. RX300/Highlander based on the Camry, CR-V based on the Civic, and so on. What does this tell you about who they see the SUVs going to?    

One way of looking at SUVs, and I quote this from my marketing professor, is as station wagons. What he argued is that a lot of his generation have had not-so-pleasant memories with wagons, so they're less likely to go near a wagon.

I agree... a sense of security/safety doesn't come from the outside, it has to come from the inside too. Having a well-built car (say, Subaru - look at www.highwaysafety.org) helps, but that's not where it ends.
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

SUV=wretched Excess At It's Worst!

Wed Oct 25, 2000 11:05 pm

SUV's are ridiculous in urban areas. The roughest terrain most of them see is a gravel driveway and the heaviest load they see is a load of groceries. I am no "greenie" but a 7000lb Ford Excursion getting 9 miles to the gallon is absoultely ridiculous, with gas shortages. I remember in the 70's when a Continental Town Car used to weigh 5700lbs and how they fell out of favor after the gas crunch in 73/74 because they were such gas guzzlers.

They do so much damage to other cars around them, either parking (in the parking lot of a Kmart near me, a Blazer overrode the bumper of a brand new Honda, destroying the headlights and hood....) or getting into accidents. People also forget they are "trucks" and should be driven as such; they are not sports cars. They roll over from poor driving skills (too fast in turns and a high centre of gravity...). It also seems that too many "soccer mom's" drive them with a cell phone in one hand and a screaming baby in the other or "weenie guys" drive them aggresively, truying to compensate for their "other" shortcomings.

As far as safety, with all the rollovers, poor handling, lack of door gaurd beams, 5-mph bumpers etc. I think thay are just BIG, not safe. I'll take a Volvo or a LeSabre any day for saftey.

4WD is really "non sequitor" these days, since traction control and front wheel drive are so common. If you want a practical SUV, try a Subaru Forrester. It's lower to the ground, has four wheel drive and is more like a car than a truck.

If you need a truck, buy one. An F-150 is for hauling dirt, hay, plowing thru snow or whatnot. Yeah, I could just see hauling bags of manure in a $50,000 Navigator?

SUV's=wretched excess at it's worst!
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am


Thu Oct 26, 2000 1:34 am

I agree, the SUV is becoming a problem.
There SUV is only useful if you live in an area with unpaved roads, lots of snow and ice, or if you're in a profession that requires you to haul around lots of equipment. Here in San Francisco and most other major cities, the SUV has become a status symbol. Its something to show off to your friends. I think thats so stupid!
Whats even more rediculous is the reasoning people buy them. One over-paid, status-seeking broad I worked with bought a Rang Rover 4x4 because she thaught that 4WD was more powerful on the hiway! I see many soccer moms driving these things to take there kid to school.
I think the ultimate family car was the 1994-1996 Buick Roadmaster Stationwagon. D These cars were awsome. Full-size reer-wheel drive, body on frame construction. 350 V8 engine (same as Corvette) with 280 hp! This car was an 8 passenger and got 27mpg on the hiway!
This was unheard of 25 years ago!
General Motors made the foolish deciscion to stop making these and convert there Arlington, Tx plant to produce you guest it, more SUVs becuase they were supposedly cool.

I acually own a 1977 Lincoln Town Car which is also a gas guzzler, but I feel 10 times safer in it than an SUV. I dont drive it everyday either.

I think folks hear in the big cities should be required to take lesons and aquire a special licence to drive these things. All SUVs should only come in 4WD.
Bring back the Concorde
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm


Thu Oct 26, 2000 3:16 am

Here we are talking about how much gass-guzzlers they are, and then somebody says there should be no 2 whell drive option. They use way more fuel when they are in four wheel drive. They can't turn as sharp in 4 whell drive. All SUV's should have shift on the fly part time 4 wheel drive. The reason, up here in Manitoba, our summers get quite hot and there is no need for 4 wheel drive unless you are going off road. But, the winter on the other hand can be quite trecherous after a heavy snowfall on an icy street if you do not have 4 wheel drive. And anybody that engages part-time 4 wheel drive for clear, dry highway use should be shot. It is completely un-necessary and a horrid waste of fossil fuels. I know with our '98 Durango, we only have the 4 wheel drive engaged if if has just snowed, or if it is really icy. Same goes for trucks.

Now, about the over-sized engines. Keep in mind that there are some people that need the cabin room for family and take a trailer/boat/snowmobiles etc. when they go on a holiday. Try towing a boat with an Accord or similar. We are one of them. Permits should be issued for those who can clearly state their need for V8/V10 engines. Those who do not have a permit should be forced with a V6. After all, I don't know of any soccer mom that has to tow two tons of groceries home on a regular basis.
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am


Thu Oct 26, 2000 4:43 am

The vechile I hate the most of any on the road is the Subaru Outback. It seems as if most drivers of this feel they are in both an SUV and sports car. Just think of the things you would do with that mentality!
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 1999 6:10 pm


Thu Oct 26, 2000 5:37 am

The only reason I would ever get an SUV is if I had a reason to get one (hauling a boat, carrying around lots of junk) but I dont do either so I would be happy with a mid or full size car. I dont really feel safe in small cars, but that is no reason to go buy a SUV. The majority of them are gas hogs and pollute way too much. But there is a better SUV coming out that I actually wouldnt mind seeing people drive. The Acura MDX, it gets 26mpg on the highway and it has gained the ULEV (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) standard which few other cars have achieved.


Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:09 am

If someone wants to buy an SUV, let them. Not all SUV drivers are reckless. I used to drive my mom's Suburban (I have a 98 Buick Century now) and I handled it like an airliner, because that's how big it seemed. I am all for SUV's, and the more on the road, the better.
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am


Fri Oct 27, 2000 9:31 am

A lot of people who have need SUV's don't take them off road. My family's expedition has the dual job of transporting our family and doing light freight hauling for our small company, carrying stuff like boxes of brochures and cans of paint (it's a non-toxic building products company). An SUV is the right car for the job, whereas a pickup would not be able to carry the family comfortably and a sedan wouldn't be able to carry much cargo.

I want to get the new gas-electric hybrid Ford Escape when I go to college. It won't be out for a few years.

Aaron G.
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm


Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:06 am

Trvir - If you don't want to wait for the Ford Escape, go for the Honda Insight. It is widely available now. It has a 88 mpg rating, for us Canadians, that's just over 3.3l/100km.

Slightly off topic, but I was at a car show here in Canada and they were rattling off all the stats like fuel economy etc in imperial units. Somebody askd for metric units and they started saying km/liter. Honestly, does anybody think in those terms?
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am


Tue Oct 31, 2000 5:42 am

In the US we use the old system, and a good number of people here can roughly estimate the metrics. (The digital dash in my car can do both by flipping a switch)

What are Imperial measuremnts?
Posts: 2588
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2000 10:58 am


Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:16 am

Imperial Measurements are what us Americans use. Miles, feet, inches, gallons, etc.

The SUV headlights are a major problem. The car companies mount them too high! When youre driving a normal car and one of those things is behind you, it blinds you if you look in your Rear view mirrors!
My views as expressed above are my views alone and do not constitute the views of my employer.
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm


Tue Oct 31, 2000 7:56 am

How are SUV headlights any different than truck headlights???

Just do what I do, get some fog lights and aim them up slightly.
User avatar
Posts: 1555
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 9:03 am


Tue Oct 31, 2000 3:42 pm

Out here in the west, we use our sport utilities every day for what they were built for. Someone said that most SUVs purchased are the 2WD variants. Somehow I don't think that is true. Do you have any facts? Most of our trucks/SUVs on the showroom floor are 4x4s. It is hard to sale your truck here in UT if it is a 2WD.
I use a 4x4 to get to my job in the winter--Ski Resort-- and we use them for lots of other things. My Dad goes 4x4ing at least once a month for pleasure up in the mountains. I think SUVs are great if you use them for what they are meant for. That is why I think that car-based suvs are a JOKE like the Lexus RX300 etc.
Posts: 676
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2001 1:48 am


Tue Oct 31, 2000 5:02 pm

I love my dad's Jeep Grand Cherokee, that sucker has dirt flowing through it's engine. Ever heard of the Rubicon Trail in the Sierras near Lake Tahoe? =P Our GC, in true jeep spirit, has triumphantly tread over any and every obstacle in that course, big 4 foot high boulders and all.
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am


Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: Fanotristars
I totaly agree!
Thats what I was trying to say in my post. I really hate those car-based SUVs. I see a lot of those as well as Suburbans, Range Rovers and even Hummers here in San Francisco!
You know how rough those San Francisco winters can be.  
If I lived up in your area, I'd get a Ford Excursion Diesel or an old International Scout! ()-)
Bring back the Concorde


Wed Nov 01, 2000 12:14 pm

I see a good use for them as:

Freight Carriers

Jeep Wranglers are for offroad purposes!!! These SUV's mentioned don't deserve the torture of mud and dirt  
travelin man
Posts: 3208
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: I Love My SUV

Wed Nov 01, 2000 1:23 pm

This is funny -- People telling me what I should use my SUV for. "You should only get an SUV if you live in snow and drive off road and haul 12 children around."

I happen to have a new 4Runner, and it is a great truck (yes, it is truck-based). I don't go off-road often (except when I go to the mountains). It gives me good visibility, and I think it looks cool. It also gets 18-20 mpg, by the way.

Why should I have to justify having an SUV?

Why don't you tell people who own sports cars that they shouldn't own them since they don't go to race tracks and actually RACE their cars. After all, they are unsafe and gas guzzlers too (ever see the mileage on a Ferrari???)

I live in L.A., and cars are important -- they are the only way to get around. I'll drive whatever I want.

And by the way, contrary to what someone said his Mom said, all SUV's sold in America definitely have emissions controlling equipment. Another poster said he drives a '77 Lincoln. That thing spews more smog out the rear of its tail than 10 Navigators.
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am


Wed Nov 01, 2000 2:58 pm

SUV's rule, we are gonna get a dodge durango. I agree with travelin' man. Whatever happened to just liking the look of a vehicle? Who cares what its use is, people that drive sports cars dont go to europe for a grand prix every year. If people can pay for the gas that they guzzle, then let them, if they emit to much smog, which they dont, then they will be reported. I just like the way the Lincoln Navigator and Ford Excursion look, nothing about their performance or uses, just they are big and sleek.
Posts: 4688
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 4:30 pm


Wed Nov 01, 2000 3:48 pm

I am not dead-set against SUV owners because it is the market that creates them, not the individual them self. But I ask you to consider the following:

While it is nice to think you are secure in your new Suburban, Expedition or Navigator, please remember the fellow drivers sharing the road with you. If you hit them, the chances of severe injury or death is much higher than if you hit them with your Camry or Accord or Accent. You need to be responsible in your usage of such a large vehicle that can cause serious or fatal injuries in accidents that cars would not.

Not to mention the waste of natural resources both required for the production of (over 500,000 gallons of fresh water are reqd in manufacturing of the average car, more than that for SUVs) not to mention the gas to keep the beasts running. Do you really need one?

I aggree that gas guzzlers of all sorts including the Ferraris and BMWs should also be dealt with, but these don't pose the same threat to other drivers that trucks do.
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am


Thu Nov 02, 2000 10:07 am

RE: CPDC10-30
Thank you for such an intelligent post in this forum. Not to common in the Non-Aviation forum.

RE: Travelin Man
I would think you knew a little bit more about autos to participate in this forum. My 1977 Lincoln gets about the same mpg. as your truck. My car dosen't have catalytic converters, so its exhaust is not as hot as those equiped with them like on your truck. My Town Car would never tip or roll over like your truck. It could fish-tail and that wont kill you. Besides, I dont drive it everyday. I use public transit and my bicycle to get around town. Its just a hobby of mine on the side and its great for trps down to LA!  
Bring back the Concorde
Posts: 703
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:50 pm


Thu Nov 02, 2000 10:20 am

I personally hate SUV's because of the shitty gas milage, hogging up the road, and their is so many of them!!!!! I will say this though, Out of all the SUV's I've driven the Dodge Durango is the best.

Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am


Thu Nov 02, 2000 10:53 am

Sport utility vehicles are unsafe and uneconomical.
They get less than fifeteen miles to the gallon and should you ever need to make a sharp turn at normal roadspeed, you could cause your vehicle to rollover.

Many people who own these vehicles do not have a clear concept of the vehicle's weight and stopping time in such weather conditions as rain or ice.
Even in normal weather, stopping requires more footage in order to make a smooth and safe stop.

Also, the automobile industry could be called on bad advertising. Who remembers that Chevy commercial with the Tahoe swerving around falling logs and boulders? Again, the rollover issue comes into play. Also, what are they doing about fuel emmision standards for those behemoths?

People who drive SUVs are not bad people, they are just misinformed or salesmen and advertising.

If you were to count all of the pros and cons of driving an SUV, you may find that there are more cons than pros.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am


Thu Nov 02, 2000 11:24 am

RE: AirLingus
You're absolutly right!
I remember that commercial.
Not only the gas milage is bad, but the power of those vehicles get eatin' up by those large wheels and the weight.
Since the Ferrari and Porshes were brought up in there defense, I'd say they are more economical because the poor gas milage in those is a result of its power. Those are very lightweight cars and so the power gets the car from point A to point B much faster. So therefore, less time to pollute then an SUV which would take longer to get from point A to point B. The sports car is really only a harm to the driver instead of the driver and everyone around them.
I don't care for those kinds of cars anyway. To much of a mid-life-crisis car anyway.
Give me a large American luxury sedan anyday!
Bring back the Concorde
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am


Sat Nov 04, 2000 12:46 pm


SUV's guzzle! The new Excursion at 7886 pounds is so heavy it is classified as a mid sized TRUCK! Just what some one needs to pick up the kids from school.

The Tahoe ad was laughable, since the worst my friennd's Tahoe has seen is a gravel parking lot, let alone logs....

Good point about the tires and "drag" from 4WD system, don't forget, that also adds to wear and tear and repairs.

But drivers of the sports cars and SUVs do (at least some) deliberately intimidate. Think of that the next time a screwball in a Navigator is up your tail inthe centerlane cuz you ain't goin fast enough (like the last time I was on the Santa Monica Freeway....)


Sat Nov 04, 2000 12:50 pm

I think the SUV is nice, but there are so many of them around, they get bland. I don't think I'll ever get one.

Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 1:37 pm


Sat Nov 04, 2000 1:42 pm

Actually is was the Blazer that commercial was for. ( The one with the SUV swerving and missing the logs)

Tahoe didn't look like that when the ad had come out.
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am


Sat Nov 04, 2000 8:05 pm

Personally I don't really care what happens to the person or family in the other car. The point is that you get them better then they get you.

As far as SUV's, Trucks ect. I don't need the goverment regulating what I drive.
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm


Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:22 am

L-188 - I hope you aren't serious about what happens to the family in the other car.
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am


Sun Nov 05, 2000 10:09 am

Yes I am.....

Don't take to mean that I would go out and try to run people down intentionally. But if I had to make a choice between my family or a bunch of strangers...I would choose my family.

I admit it's cold.....but it is the truth.

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