Bicoastal
Topic Author
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Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 11:41 am

I put this in a response just now on the civil aviation forum but it might be interesting to see what you think on this forum.

I went surfing recently with some friends down in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. On the Alaska Airlines flight from San Diego they included a Christian prayer with each of the meals. I was offended as was a Jewish buddy with me. Why do they do this? Couldn't they include a non-denominational prayer? I prefer no religious propaganda when I purchase an airline ticket and will never fly Alaska Airlines again. I wish I would have known about this practice ahead of time. I would have flown AeroMexico.

Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 11:55 am

Since Alaska Airlines is not a government airline, I feel they can do as they want. I respect your jewish friend, but I respect Alaska airlines for making that choice. And as a consumer, you have a choice on which airline to fly. Nobody forces anyone to fly a certain carrier so you are justified in choosing not to fly Alaskan Air next time. If they offerd a jewish prayer and I was on that flight (I am christian), I would feel privledged to expand my horizens and participate. We live in diverse scociety, and we need to learn to accept all belief systems and not be affended by something as simple as a prayer. I guess what I am saying is, Lighten Up!
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 3:08 pm

Alaska certainly does have that right (and I have never seen a prayer included with my meal and I fly them often) and you also have the right to disregard any publications they include. A prayer isn't "religious propaganda".
Christianity is the largest religion in the United States. If I was to fly on a Middle Eastern carrier, I wouldn't be offended by a Muslim prayer, even though I am Christian. Like Fanoftristars said, lighten up... something like that shouldn't be offending to anyone.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 3:25 pm

I have often noted taht people get offended only when a Christian tries to promote his/her religion and say a prayer...yet if a jewish or muslim person tries to do the same..it is ok. If you are going to hold a standard..hold it always. If not..dont hold it.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:30 pm

Since the Jewish faith is based on christainity(jesus was jewish), I can't see why you were offended.
 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:53 pm

In and Out burger have something printed on the bottom of there cups. A verse or something, and I bet you will still go to In and Out!
But if you flew AeroMexico you would need that prayer that Alaska offered you!
Iain
 
Bicoastal
Topic Author
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RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 9:42 pm

Iain....no need to AeroMexico-bash....it's a fine airline as is its home country.

I'm a non-believer and prefer that people and businesses keep their religion private and to themselves...no matter what religion it may be. Yes, I avoid In-N-Out, too, when I'm out west and any other businesses that proselitizes (sp?) while I purchase.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Marco
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RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 9:59 pm

Everyone is free to do whatever they want and if that means holding prayers before a meal then that's ok too...that's what democracy is about, in saudi Arabia when it's prayer time the whole country stops working, by law, and on their airplanes there are prayer rooms, there's nothing wrong with that because it's their religion and because 90% (correct me if I'm wrong) of America is christian then it's only normal to have a prayer. Besides Christians and jews are close, why did it bother you that much?
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
L-188
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RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 10, 2000 10:01 pm

I have to go with everybody else that is trying to tell you to lighten up.

J.H.C. It's the same damm god.

Like you said if it offends you then don't fly them. It's your choice, Just like it is the airlines choice to put that blessing in with the meal. Of course considering some airline food a blessing may be needed in order to consume it.

And like a couple of other people said, For better or worse the U.S. is a predominatly christian country at this point, So an airline doing that here should not be that unexpected. Unexpected would be getting a decent pork dinner on El-AL.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
crjmech
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RE: Religion And Flying

Mon Dec 11, 2000 4:01 am



Bicoastal wrote:
-------------------------------
I'm a non-believer and prefer that people and businesses keep their religion private and to themselves...no matter what religion it may be. Yes, I avoid In-N-Out, too, when I'm out west and any other businesses that proselitizes (sp?) while I purchase.
-------------------------------
By this can I assume that you won't be using U.S. currency to make your purchases? You know, that whole "In God We Trust" thing. My point is this, religion is evident everywhere. Decrying it's every manifestation is ultimately futile. I am not religiously inclined in the slightest and have learned to cope. Find yourself in the middle of a prayer session? Plug in the Walkman, read a book, or be polite (you may very well be in the minority), bow your head and think about something else. There are more important matters that deserve your ire besides having to bear witness to someone else's religious beliefs and practices.
Thou shalt mind thine altitude,lest the ground reach up and smite thee.
 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Mon Dec 11, 2000 5:22 am

They didn't force you guys to say the prayer. So, you should just ignore the prayer. If they a private carrier, then they have a right to have the prayers. They might have lost a customer for providing the prayer, but I'm sure that they also gain many more customers, who like to say a prayer before their evening meal.

Just my 2c

Tom  
http://www.geocities.com/airfreak48


She rulez the world!
 
AerLingus
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RE: Religion And Flying

Mon Dec 11, 2000 12:15 pm

Right you are, SP. Alaska Airlines is a private carrier, scrutinised by the federal government, licensed by the federal government, and maneuvered by air traffic controllers who are federal employees.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Mon Dec 11, 2000 12:24 pm

If you didn't like it then you should have got off the plane 
 
TWFirst
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RE: Future_Pilot

Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:00 pm

Future_Pilot wrote:

>>>Since the Jewish faith is based on christainity(jesus was jewish), I can't see why you were offended.<<<


       


Really??? Gee, I'll bet Jewish folks will find that interesting considering Judaism is over 3000 years older than Christianity!!!!!!


I think you meant to say that Christianity is based on Judaism. At least I hope that's what you meant to say, because otherwise you have some major studying to do.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Mon Dec 11, 2000 1:04 pm

Jewish people believe in the Bible, the Old Testament at least, but they do not believe in the New Testament and they dont believe that Jesus is the Messiah, they don't believe the Messiah has come yet. Christians obviously believe that Jesus is the Messiah and will come again. Thats the major difference between the two religions.
 
An-225
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RE: Religion And Flying

Tue Dec 12, 2000 7:26 am

The thing is - there should be no public display of religion. That way everyone is free to worship whatever religion they belong to. It shouldn't be forced on others, and I will never fly Alaska Airlines.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Tue Dec 12, 2000 8:19 am

An-225, thank God our Constitution protects us from people like you! People should be able to publicly display just about anything, and that includes religion. The prayer, as the Bicoastal described, was not "forced" onto anyone and could easily be discarded or even ignored... thats a concept! Your post was taken as arrogant and ignorant....
Makes me think even more that people go out of their way to bash religion...

TWFirst, I was going to call him on it, but decided not to...yes you are correct, Christianity is based on Judaism, not the other way around. Good call...
 
mbmbos
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RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 3:01 am

"Makes me think even more that people go out of their way to bash religion... "

Gee, it makes me think that some people go out of their way to assert their religious beliefs onto other people.

Why does a cabin full of passengers have to be "led" in prayer? Why not allow those passengers who wish to worship to do so on their own? For those people who do not wish to participate in a publicly-led ceremony, how do you suppose it makes them feel?

 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 3:34 am

Alaska Airlines should keep religion out of their services. If I found a prayer like that on my tray I'd think it was real strange.

Guess Alaska feels they need it, after all the poor maintenance was uncovered at their operation not to mention the crash!!!!
 
Guest

RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 4:14 am

P.S. Even if the United States is "90%" Christian, the U.S. states IS NOT AND NEVER WILL BE a religious state. The speration of church and state is strictly prohibited by the constitution.
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:16 am

Surf wrote:
-------------------------------
"The speration of church and state is strictly prohibited by the constitution"

What constitution have you been reading? As far as I know, church and state are supposed to be separated according to the Constitution. You say church and state are prohibited from being separated.

 
DG_pilot
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 10:21 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 10:24 am

First of all, if they want to say a prayer, they can pray all they want to. If they want to hand something out, they can hand it out! It did not hurt you in any matter. Stop crying.

Second of all, Alaska is not a bad airline. Yes, several maintenance procedures were not followed, but most of those were paperwork matters. Every airline has had these minor run-ins with regulation. In fact, Alaska was publicly commended by the industry and the government not to long ago for operating safely for so many years without an accident.

Thirdly, if he was Jewish, why would he care too much?


Dustin
 
Ady
Posts: 156
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RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 10:28 am

I don't think its apropriate to include such things as prayers on commercial flights. Not everyone has the same religion or have one at all.
If u ever feel depressed about urself, just remember that at one time you were the most vicious sperm in ur group.
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Wed Dec 13, 2000 10:35 am

It's not like they have a Torah reading on EL AL flights to Tel Aviv, so why should they have a Christian prayer on an Alaska flight to Cabo San Lucas?
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1462
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 17, 2000 6:36 am

To repeat, the prayers come out of the Old Testament!

Some people have mentioned that religion is the cause of most of the evils that have occured throughout history. I disagree...religion offers people hope to push on through the most difficult of times of life. People feel a need to explain the unexplainable. The problem, is indeed the lack of tolerance for other people's religions. And, that is exactly what several of you have shown quite clearly on this thread. Certainly you can choose another air carrier if it offends you that much, but America is nation buitl on the concept of respecting and accepting the fact that people are diverse, and share different ideologies.

"Guess Alaska feels they need it, after all the poor maintenance was uncovered at their operation not to mention the crash!!!!"

Alaska has offered these prayers for as long as I can remember. On my most recent flight, I have not seen them.

Alaska has had a few minor maintenance problems, probably no more than other major carriers. Alaska has made changes to address these problems, which are now almost fully implemented. Most Alaska planes that were identified as having mechanical problems never in fact carried passengers, unlike the media has reported. Alaska's maintenance was honored by the Department of Defense in September.

So far, the flight 261 hearings have focused on the fact that Aeroshell 33 grease may have been corrosive to copper and when combined with the prior product, Mobil 28, may have resulting in the increased occurance of jackscrew problems. Alaska had no way of knowing this, as they were told that the products were compatible and they wanted to standardize the grease they used. The jackscrew endplay measurements on N963AS and the inspection intervals were in accordance with Boeing policy, as testified. And, they also stated in 1997 that they had "no objections" to AS switching to the new grease. No other airline was using this supposedly superior product. And yes, the jackscrew did in fact have an adequate amount of grease on it when pulled from the wreckage.
 
DG_pilot
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 10:21 am

RE: Religion And Flying

Sun Dec 17, 2000 7:19 am

Surf is a flaming retard....

Bottom line is that these people were NOT hurt, NOT seriously offended, and COULD HAVE downplayed any matter they didn't agree with, such as the prayer cards!

Its NOT like they were forced to pray or something!!

Grow up you whining babies!!

-Dustin
 
BigGiraffe
Posts: 256
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RE: Religion And Flying

Mon Dec 18, 2000 2:09 am

"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel." - Isaiah 7:14

"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth have been from of old,
From everlasting."
- Micah 5:2

"But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, 'Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.' " - Matthew 1:20-21

"Then the angel said to them, 'Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.' "
- Luke 2:10-11

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent'... For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe... But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." - 1 Corinthians 1:18-25

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