Guest

Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:19 am

I am posting this in response to a few threads lately concerning American president Bush building a NMD.

Now that you have what the Russian's think, do you still think that the NMD is a good idea? i.e. If it does go ahead, America risks alienating it's NATO partners, and 100% guaranteed, sparking a new arms race with Russia, which would probably isolate that country to a huge extent.

America doesn't need to worry about Iran; especially since that country is trying to improve relations with America. North Korea, frankly, does not have the required resources to build these weapons.

The country America really should be worried about is Kiribati; what with their long-range ballistic missiles armed with coconut warheads!

----------
Russia's Military Shoots Down Bush Plan to "Update" ABM Treaty

MOSCOW, Jan 30, 2001 -- (Agence France Presse) Russia's military leadership voiced its opposition Tuesday to a plan mooted by U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney to "update" the 1972 ABM treaty to let Washington build a national missile defense (NMD) system.

"Russia opposes changes to the ABM treaty. Updating the treaty would end up destroying it," news agencies quoted General Valery Manilov, deputy armed forces chief, saying of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, a cornerstone of arms control for three decades.

The new U.S. administration of President George W. Bush has come out in favor of the controversial NMD system, whose development was put on hold by outgoing president Bill Clinton last September.

Cheney hinted Sunday that the United States could breach the treaty signed with the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War in order to develop a unilateral missile shield against attack by so-called rogue states.

Washington had signed the 1972 treaty with "a country that no longer exists, and must be modified to allow for the (NMD) program," Cheney told Fox News.

"The modification Americans speak of amounts to emasculating the essence of the ABM treaty, and the purpose for which it was signed -- preserving a balance between strategic defensive and offensive weapons," Manilov was quoted as saying by Interfax.

He had suggested an alternative to deploying the unilateral NMD shield, which was the "creation of a non-strategic theater missile defense system with the participation of all interested states."

Russian President Vladimir Putin warned the United States last Friday that NMD deployment would "irreparably damage" global stability.

Efforts in North Korea and Iran to build long-range missiles prompted the United States to go it alone with a nuclear defense system, arguing that it is increasingly liable to attack.

Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov, who underlined last week that the NMD dispute was not "only a Russian-U.S. problem" and adding that Moscow wanted to consult the European Union, held talks here Tuesday with German Defense Minister Rudolf Scharping. ((c) 2001 Agence France Presse)
 
cfalk
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 4:03 am

People seem to forget that under the ABM Treaty, The Soviet Union was allowed to maintain a missile defence system. It was supposed to be restricted to around Moscow, but whether it was or not was debatable. I don't know if it is still operational.

If Russia has the right, why not the U.S.?

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Sasha
Posts: 856
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 7:28 am

Isn't it quite obvious that both countries never really halted development and operations of mass-destruction weapons. ABM treaty or whatever may have forced Russia or/and US to cut existing weapons at that time... only to be replaced with NEW, better ones.

I wish the arm race stopped. Although, as long as there';s no real war, who cares what's really hidden in endless Russian forests and America's canyons?
An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 8:30 am

>to "update" the 1972 ABM treaty

You know what? The AMB treaty is null and void. That country we signed it with- it doesn't exist anymore.

And as far as Russia is concerned, if they don't like that we're going to build it, we say "stick it" to them.

>Russian President Vladimir Putin warned the United States last Friday that NMD deployment would "irreparably damage" global stability.

Putin is a joke. He doesn't really run Russia- the mob runs Russia. He is just a front for the Russian mob. He can't be taken seriously.

>America risks alienating it's NATO partners

Screw NATO. It has outlived its purpose. We need to pull out....
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 10:59 am

Putin a front for the Russian mob? Puhleeze. You obviously are showing a total lack of knowledge here N766AS. Under Putin, the Russian mafia have really had to curtail their activities.

Russia is no more run by the mob than New York is run by the mob....you know the wog Julianie (however you spell his name), is nothing more than a front for Sicilian mafia.

Also, you might like to show me some proof that Putin is a Russian mob front!! You know I don't go much for groundless rhetoric, unless it is backed up with those things that sometimes get in the way of a good story....I think some people call them the facts.

Your comments on NATO are absolutely typical of what come people think of America. Use all country's for your own purpose, and then desert them when it suits you. This is not a friend....it is a scum-sucking house visitor who has overstayed his welcome, after eating you out of house and home. Is this what you want people to think?
 
Guest

Brissie.

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:36 am

We Americans don't give a rats rear what the rest of the world thinks of our military defense policies, especially your Russian friends who you say "tells America to Stick the NMD"? Ha! Tell me, why should I or my fellow Americans care what your Russian friends think about anything? Don't give me your usual "F*** you!" or "Puhleeze" comic routine. Intelligent debate. Ever hear of it or are you now foaming over your keyboard, just itching to slam down on that letter "F" key so as to launch into another one of your tired "F*** you!" tirades?
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Pty

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:42 am

We Americans don't give a rats rear what the rest of the world thinks of our military defense policies, especially your Russian friends...

Many Americans of sound mind on this board would tend to disagree with you. Unless your country is planning to move its population to another planet, you have to be expected to abide by global agreements. Otherwise, you are sinking to the level of the so called "rogue nations" you are trying to protect against.

I take N766AS's opinion for granted these days...  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:46 am

I will let one of my Russian "friends" answer this question shall I? It is precisely what I was going to reply, and then whilst surfing I came upon on it.

-------------

Who will persuade U.S.A. to give up NMD?
By Viktor Sokolov

The Americans are stronger than anyone in the world. This fact will not be disputed by anybody, not even by Vladimir Putin. However, despite a flagging economy and weakened armed forces he and the rest of the nation represent the only real national force capable of keeping the United States away from an imprudent decision to break the 1972 ABM Treaty and create a national missile defense system. NATO, G8, the UN Security Council and the European Union are perfectly aware of this. The countries concerned overlap those organizations and infiltrate them in seemingly random order as if in a pack of cards but this particular pack is a system also capable of restraining the new U.S administration from a shortsighted move to upset the balance and plunge the world into a new arms race.

The Americans probably believe Russia today does not have the strength to offer adequate resistance. As for world and European organizations, do the Americans think that the dress rehearsal of aggression in Yugoslavia demonstrated that they as well as Russia can be ignored? If that is how the Americans feel, they are misinterpreting recent history because following the bombing of Yugoslavia efforts made by Russia and those who helped it revealed to the world the patent folly of the Balkan war and how dangerous it is to use force in an attempt to resolve disputes. NATO countries and the Americans themselves realized this but could not afford to admit this in public because otherwise they would have completely lost face. Furthermore, it is not all smooth sailing for the Americans in various parts of the world such as Iraq, Iran and the Middle East. And on top of that, the economy is getting worse. This too serves to undercut their authority.

It is in a bid to restore authority in the eyes of the world public that Clinton came up with the idea of modernizing the AMB Treaty and Bush Jr., needless to say, has embraced it. The Americans always show off their strength by blowing a whistle so loudly that the sound reverberates across the world. The idea of a mighty shield protecting the United States from missiles coming from unstable regimes is designed to play the role of whistle. The new U.S. administration says it has the courage to spit on all and sundry without even noticing that in doing so it testifies to its weakness. America is bluffing! It is absolutely obvious that by launching this ballon d'essai Bush Jr. is trying to intimidate his allies and especially Russia and probe their reaction to his insane idea.

Bush knows that reforms have weakened Russia. But he also knows that in a pinch the people of Russia are capable of uniting to give an adequate response.

Bush will soon be ending his probing exercise. After that he is bound to sit down at the negotiating table. As has been said before, Russia, NATO allies and international organizations, all those designated as the system of international security, will help him draw the right conclusions.

 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:49 am

>Putin a front for the Russian mob? Puhleeze. You obviously are showing a total lack of knowledge here N766AS.

Oh really? Hmmm... because I have done my research on the fairly new Russian president and he has VERY close ties to the Russian mob- he used to be in the top levels of it! He is a front for the mob- they have ultimate control of the nation.

>Also, you might like to show me some proof that Putin is a Russian mob front!!

I will certainly do that.

>Use all country's for your own purpose, and then desert them when it suits you.

So protecting Europe from the now- non-existant Soviet Untion was all for our purpose? Sure- there was absolutely nothing gained by Europe by being protected from the Soviets by the USA. And now we are deserting them? So, what threat is there to them now?

Absolutely ludicrous. NATO serves absolutely no purpose and the US needs to drop out of it. Period.

>Is this what you want people to think?

I am with Pty here- who cares what the rest of the world thinks? We are who we are, and we aren't like the rest of the world! If the rest of the world doesn't like that, they can stick it. The USA isn't in existance to cater to the rest of humanity.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:52 am

Sorry, bub, but "Might Makes Right." It's always been that way and always will.
 
anzff
Posts: 138
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N766AS

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:55 am

>You know what? The AMB treaty is null and void. That country we signed it with- >it doesn't exist anymore.

Ummm - true the USSR is no longer a state, but the Russian Federation is the continuation of the USSR's international legal personality. That is why the Russian Federation holds the USSR's permanent seat in the Security Council that used to belong to the USSR. Don't confuse the processes of the breakup of the former Yugoslavia (that produced inter alia today's Yugoslavia which is a new state and seperate legal personality) with the breakup of the former USSR where the consituent FSRs broke away creating new states (and seperate legal personalities) leaving the Russian FSR (which then became the Russian Federation) as the sole continuation of the USSR's personality.
THEREFORE the ABM treaty is not null and void on the basis of non-existence of a party.

>Screw NATO. It has outlived its purpose. We need to pull out....

Given attitudes like yours, a lot of Europeans would probably be quite happy to see you go!

As for Australia, hopefully the next election will give us a government that will not allow our soil to be used by the US to build the NMD.

Bottom line - if the US wants to ignore the rest of the world and its legal obligations it is quite free to do so...but it must also accept that to do so makes it no better than the many other countries who do the same (like North Korea, Iran, Libya, etc) - so don't lecture the rest of the world!
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 11:56 am

Pty says:

"""We Americans don't give a rats rear what the rest of the world thinks of our military defense policies, especially your Russian friends...."""

Pty, you are hardly representative of Americans in general, rather your represetative of the "type" of Americans no one likes. You and your other ilk should start a little group where you can meet and rant at each other. Wouldn't that be a hoot? (Dang Pty, did ya brianggg that big ole thunkun chain for meye pickurp..)

Scotty,

It's a little disappointing to read your post, I would have thought those shit heads, bush / cheney would have at least kept their mouths shut for a while. If this is a taste of things to come, it looks like the USA government is going to upset the world apple cart completely and uncessarily. True diplomats indeed. I feel sorry for those Americans who I know will cringe and feel ashamed when those two gits hit the international diplomatic trail...

Cheers,

mb

 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:02 pm

Anzff

You make a very interesting point on our land being used.

How many Americans realise that their whole defence system and space program comes down to a facility which is on Australian soil......can you say P-I-N-E G-A-P? And I bet your arse that Pine Gap will be instrumental in any NMD. This is wrong!

Let me guess, when we as Australians kick your Yankee butts out of our country for disregarding our wishes, does this mean that we will then be bombed to smitherines, and Pine Gap declared the 51st state in the name of the "National Security of the United States" (said in an arrogant tone which one is used in pissy Hollywood movies).
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:04 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot, N766AS, I am waiting with baited breath for this proof of yours that Putin is the godfather of the Russian mafia.

Just hope it comes before I turn blue and black out though.
 
Guest

Mx5_BOY

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:04 pm

Well, as a matter of fact we have been meeting as of last Jan. 20th, in Washington, D.C. Anything else?
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:09 pm

Pty

You may have been meeting since Jan 20th, but do not for one moment think that the people who were on the "winning" side are representative of all Americans. Hell, they do not have a mandate to even wipe their arses after going to the crapper, let alone a mandate to build an NMD.
 
Guest

Brissie.

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:10 pm

Well, we agree on one thing: Hollyweird does make what you call "pissy movies."
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:17 pm

Oh, don't flatter yourself. I never said he was the "godfather" of the Russian mafia.

I actually had a paragraph quoted from a news source, copied and all ready to go, but I stupidly copied something over it. Give me a bit of time to find it again...
 
bombstar
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 9:37 am

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:39 pm

Seriously I dont see the point of a NMD, it just wouldn't work, technically and pollitically. There is currently no threat to the United States, or any other nation for that matter. And starting the NMD project would just create more tension in the world, and possibily start another cold war from the nuclear arms race. Nuclear weapons are very dangerous and kill a lot of people as well as destroying our planet. I personally think that arrogant americans such as Pty and N766AS just dont see the reality of the mass destrusion of a nuclear bomb. The world should stop using them. America has to learn that it can not keep intervening in international situations. So far the Bush administration is pissing me off, first cutting fund to abortion then starting the NMD. Bush probably doesn't even know why america needs one! What the hell is North Korea going to do to them?
America should be more worried about bombs that are smuggled inside the border as opposed to launched by missiles (ever seen the movie The Peacemaker?). Nukes can be made small enough to be carried by a terrorist, and it can be more easily sliped through america's borders then launched by missles.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:50 pm

N766AS

Try looking at

http://www.themoscowtimes.ru
http://eng.strana.ru
http://www.russiajournal.com
http://www.russiatoday.com
http://www.pravda.ru
http://www.interfax.ru
http://www.lenta.ru
http://www.subscribe.ru
http://allnews.ru
http://www.gazeta.ru
http://www.itar-tass.com
http://www.rbcnews.ru
http://www.skrin.ru

I am sure you will be able to find what you are looking for on one of these Russian news sites.
 
Guest

Bombstar

Wed Jan 31, 2001 12:57 pm

You pathetic hypocrite! "Nuclear weapons are very dangerous and kill a lot of people" and in the same breath "So far the Bush administration is pissing me off, first cutting fund to abortion." Go play in the street, you sick mutt.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:01 pm

Brissie, is that a try at sarcasm? Or are you serious? Because I doubt a mob-controlled nation's own media would report about it.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:11 pm

Sarcasm? I don't think so.

You obviously have no idea how the Russian people live these days, what laws they live under, and just how free the press is.

Even Pravda, the old Soviet mouthpiece, is often scathing of Putin when it is warranted.

So please, go and look at the sites for yourself.

I can even provide you with sites which will stream Moscow TV direct to your computer, for free, and you will be able to see how free they are.

To have some proof of this, just cast your mind back a couple of months, and remember the horrendous disaster which was they Kursk.

The media absolutely blasted the government and the military.....something that was unheard of in Soviet times. The TV stations were showing pictures of family members who lost loved ones on the sub, taking their anger out on military chiefs. Again something which in the old Soviet Union would have caused you to be deported to a gulag in Siberia for a term of "treatment".

So don't underestimate the will and pride of the Russian people when it comes to their new found freedoms. Remember, America is not the only country in the world which has a free media.

Take a look for yourself, like I said!
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:14 pm

I am forced to scold our wacky rad-right couple:

N766AS...we're still waiting. Stop taking pot shots at Brissie till you come up with the dirt.

Pty: Abortion has nothing to do with the debate. Bombstar mentioned that he was also opposed to G. Bush's reduction in funding. He never said he gains pleasure from abortions. I don't think there are any pro-choicers that do.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:23 pm

>You obviously have no idea how the Russian people live these days, what laws they live under, and just how free the press is.

I was under the impression that "free press" wasn't exactly promoted there... I will certainly check the publications...

>Stop taking pot shots at Brissie

POT SHOTS?! I was merely trying to figure out if he was being sarcastic or not! Seriously...


I still stand by the fact (and I have found sources, but none you would take seriously) that Putin is a puppet for the Russian mob.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:33 pm

You can stand by the fact all you like. You have made a comment, yet you have as yet still not shown us the "facts". I think it is a case of you commenting without knowing a single thing about Putin and the Mafia. Have you heard of Berezovsky? (as an aviation enthusiast you should have). How about Lebed?

But, show us your sources, and let us make our own decisions.

And let's just hope it is a newspaper with a standard of fair and honest reporting. Not like some of the ones I have been presented with in the past by different people when asked for their source.

I will take them seriously, if they fall in the category above.

Still waiting with baited breath (and turning a light shade of blue).
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:40 pm

Well, don't hold your breath... JAG is on, so you'll have to wait until tomorrow for my reply.

Good evening from the greatest nation on God's green Earth.

(BTW, I am in America right now)


zach
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:49 pm

N766AS, did you know that David James Elliot (Harm) is not only Canadian but is alma mater of my school (Ryerson University)! I aggree with you on that, it is a good show  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 1:53 pm

W-h-a-t-e-v-e-r

I would have thought you would have these facts at the ready (like you have said you have on, now, 2, yes, 2, occasions).

But I think it is now a case of you having to scramble to find anything even remotely related between Putin and the Mafia.

Good luck. You might be able to find something on one of those sites I have provided above, but to get to it you are going to have to pay for a subscription.

I can see you paying for one, just to try and prove a point, when there is no point to be proven (from what you are saying anyway).

On a side note:

What is tonight's episode of JAG about?

Have they had the episode on over there about the American sailors who were charged with rape here in Perth, and charged under our laws, much to the chagrin of the American authorities. Enter the constitutional expert from Seattle to argue that these sailors are liable to prosecution under our laws, only for the American authorities to be told by the Australian authorities to tell this constitutional expert what he can do with his amendments, and constitutions, and military codes; This is Australia buddy, your constitution means diddly squat when you are on our soil.

Have they had that episode yet? If not, you gotta see it. It is a laugh I can tell ya!!!
 
DG_pilot
Posts: 810
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:06 pm

Russia is just being a little cranky because they know they cannot 'afford' to try to keep up with the U.S. as far as NMD goes.

So if everyone else disagrees with it, go and spend money and try to keep up with us. I dare you!!

Just forget about Russia. They like to complain in the wind....

-Dustin
 
Guest

Brissie.

Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:08 pm

I would like to think that the laws on rape there in Australia include the death penalty. Who cares what nationality they are? Guilty? Hang 'em.
 
DG_pilot
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 1999 10:21 am

Adding On To My Previous Post--

Wed Jan 31, 2001 2:22 pm

Adding on to my previous post, I think Reagan knew that the Soviets could not afford to keep up with us, and the way to break them was to make them spend huge amounts of their money trying. Afterall, they could not just sit back and watch us build up our arsenal and defenses could they? They literally had to try to keep up, and they lost.

Maybe the "Star Wars" project was just a plan to make them spend even MORE money?...

Something to think about....

-Dustin
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 3:31 pm

Brissie Darling: u of all people should know better than to enter into arguments with N7666As and their ilk!

I learnt my lesson, when will you learn pal?
 
crjmech
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2000 6:31 am

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Wed Jan 31, 2001 5:25 pm

I dunno. I'm really starting to think that an NMD system would be unfeasible for several reasons. The costs of said system are considerable and may not be worth it given the relatively small threat of a NBC (nuclear,biological or chemical) tipped ICBM attack on the mainland US. Also, the actual interception of an incoming warhead has proven to be problematic; the last I heard, such an interception had yet to be accomplished in tests. The effect of putting a NMD system in service on international relations is also disturbing. It seems to violate present arms treaties and would serve to alienate many of our allies abroad. Contrary to what was said in an earlier post, our membership in NATO is a good thing. We cannot hope to stand alone and remain one of the world's predominate powers. To think otherwise is arrogant and more than a little foolhardy. All in all, I think the time and resources used on the NMD would be better put to use elsewhere. For instance; a theater missile defense system to protect troops in the field, more emphasis placed on preventing weapons of mass destruction entering our borders in the hands of terrorists and a greater effort put towards seeking these weapons while still in the development stages and destroying them in their infancy.
Thou shalt mind thine altitude,lest the ground reach up and smite thee.
 
Sasha
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Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Thu Feb 01, 2001 1:05 am

N766AS: Putin a puppet of Russian mob? You might also would like to know that your city mayor maybe under Russian mob too... Never underestimate the Russian Mafia, it can reach you anywhere! I'm from Russia, I should know.

But, before you make such statements, go and live in Russia for a few months.

Your sources are probably "flavoured" by Western press, still under Cold War instincts. And what kinnda President was in USA, whose oral sex scandal went worldwide. Haha...YOU WISH the WOrld didn't judge USA by their leader, the leader they elected.
An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 9:48 pm

SashA

Thu Feb 01, 2001 2:14 am

How's Russia doing nowadays? Is the economy and the general outlook improving in your opinion?

Speaking of Russia, my niece who's graduating college this year loves to travel. Her lack of money however didn't stop her from seeing many countries including yours. The way she visited Russia was to volunteer to teach English to Russian children at what I think was a summer camp. When she arrived at the camp, it turns out she was the only one able to speak English (I think the counselers spoke a small amount). At first she regretted going being lonely and unable to communicate with anyone, but she ended up having a terrific time though saying later she probably learned more Russian than she taught English. I think she was on the outskirts of Moscow but I'm not sure, Ill ask.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Sasha
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Thu Feb 01, 2001 7:41 am

yeah, the economy now is somewhat better than for many years before. However, still fragile. Give it 2-5 years, maybe it'll become more stable...

Oh, your niece should've gone to teach to summer school in Yakutsk, Siberia. I was one of the tutors there for two seasons and could speak some English  Smile. Also, we had a bunch of other English-speaking tutors who'd studied abroad, like me.
An2/24/28,Yak42,Tu154/134,IL18/62/96,B737/757/767,A310/320/319,F100,BAe146,EMB-145,CRJ,A340-600,B747-400,A-330-300,A-340
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Thu Feb 01, 2001 10:00 am

Back to topic (but still waiting to hear from N766AS).

Russia can afford to combat any NMD which America implements.

From www.strana.ru

The Russian expert said that, unless the U.S. Administration heeds world public opinion and observes the basic document on offensive nuclear arms cuts, Russia will use not only political and diplomatic but also military means of containment.

The Start-2 Treaty does not prohibit providing the Topol-M missile system with three MIRVed warheads. It is possible to test a new Topol-M version within a brief span of time and to start its serial manufacture. This missile, which has a fairly brief boost phase (2 minutes against 5 minutes of an SS-18 missile), is capable to penetrate with high probability the hypothetical NMD, even though it has space-based elements. Besides, beginning with 2005-2007, the deployment of new missile systems on the basis of "Yury Dolgoruky" submarines should begin. Russian strategic long-range Tu-95MS and Tu-160 bombers will carry new-generation cruise missies. Systems of combat control, of warning about a missile attack, and of space reconnaissance will be modernized, the Russian expert said.




In particular this:

.....is capable to penetrate with high probability the hypothetical NMD.....

So would the American government really want to spend a shitload of money on a system which Russian missiles would be probably be able to penetrate anyway?

Like Crjmech said, the biggest threat to security, will come in a suitcase, not in a missile (but I hear those I-Kiribati are getting cranky...so you never know); but I believe that this threat won't come from Iran, North Korea, Iraq or Libya, but from within.

Some huge amounts of diplomacy are going to have to be done to try and smooth this subject over with the Russians, because they are not happy campers at the moment.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Thu Feb 01, 2001 10:20 am

Would NMD give the people in the US protection ? Not prooven.

Would NMD cost the people in the US Billions of tax money ? Yes.

Would the people in the US be able to complain if the NMD fails in a real threat ? No.

This is just about blowing money into some real fat industries with the amen of the gouvernment.
The cold war is over and now the weaponmakers need to create a new market to let the cash flow.
 
woody
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 3:14 am

RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Thu Feb 01, 2001 3:28 pm

A NMD system is bogus. The only reason that Bush wants it built is because the corporations who gave him huge sums of money for his campaign want it built. The reason for that is MONEY! With the gov't paying the bill (i.e. we the tax payers) the companies can charge us as much as they want.
We have no need for a NMD. It seems like the people in high office seem to be stuck in the Cold War. Hmmmm, maybe we could help protect ourselves by using something called diplomacy? Russia isn't going to launch a nuke at us, and how is the NMD going to help if a warhead is smuggled onto U.S. soil and detonated on U.S. soil? That's what terrorists will do instead of hijacking a ICBM. With an ICBM NORAD will dectect the launch and alert the country which would result in massive retaliation against the area where the ICBM was launched. So much for the Republican think tank really thinking things through.
Back to diplomacy. Oh, wait we don't need diplomacy we're America and everyone listens to what we say! Yeah right. If we're so afraid of Russia then why have we loaned them billion's of dollars? Oh yeah, that was during a liberal's stint in the White House. He was just trying to create closer ties to a country that was once a former enemy but now is trying to create change with the same form of government we have.
Also, if America is so big and bad then why do we have to creat a NMD? What happened to making government smaller? Is the NMD just making the government larger?
Oh yeah, this is just double speak (for those of you who read 1984) by the ruling party to make themselves seem more appealing to the masses.

That was just my $0.02 on the NMD.
 
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RE: Russia Tells America To Stick The NMD

Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:43 pm

I dunno....There was a reason why the doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction was known as MAD.

The abm treaty does allow a missle system to be built, provided that it is located outside Grafton ND. This is where we had our 1970's ABM system located. It was the matching unit for the Soviet one that was located around Moscow. We retired our after about four or five years of use. The Soviets keep their's up, TBMK.

Incidently the Warhead for that system was rated a 5 megaton and the Kanikin test detonation on Amchitka Island was the largest underground test carried out by the U.S.

The big sticking point (other then to build it or not) is where to locate it. The reason the Grafton, location was originally selected was that it allowed a 'head-on' interception of missles comming over the pole. One of the big pushes is a proposal to relocate it to Alaska. This would move the interceptors into a better position to intercept missles launched from mainland China or more importantly North Korea. But it is in reality a worse place to intercept most missles comming over the pole from Russia, because anything from the eastern half of that county would have to be intercepted in a "tail-chase".
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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