Olympic A-340
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Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 5:33 am

As reported on CNN, Ariel Sharon recieved 59.5% of the votes, and Ehud Barak recieved 40.5% of the votes...Poles closed a half hour ago, and 100% of the votes are in. Voter turn out 62% was very low and not expected. Any thoughts

Arrivederci
Olympic A-340
 
SR3496
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 5:51 am

That could bring real war for the Near East. I think Sharon is able to start a senseless, bloody warfare with the palestinian. Same as in Lebanon some time ago...sad!
 
OH-LGA
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 5:57 am

Eeks... thanks for the info Olympic A-340!

Well this is getting worrisome... I was hoping Benjamin Netanyahu would have been able to come back... as I feel he was pretty good... wow compared to here in the United States the vote count sure goes quick in Israel...

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 6:33 am

I see that Barak actually made some pretty large gains in the actual count compared to the pre-election polls. A good portion of the Israeli public probably had last-minute reservations over whether they really wanted to vote for someone as right-wing as Sharon.

Both sides did not have the candidate they wanted in this election. The left wanted Peres and the right wanted Netanyahu; we probably would have seen a more enthusiastic electorate if they had run.

In any case, I do not think this presidency will lead to anything good. Now both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will stonewall in every negotiation, and the Islamic Fundamentalists will have more reason in their eyes to stir up the populace and create havoc altogether.

I think I'll hold off on that trip to Israel for another year. Oh well Sad.

Aaron G.
 
mbmbos
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 7:15 am

It's hard for me to view Sharon as anything but a war-monger. I suppose we'll see if anything good can come of this, but it's disturbing news.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 8:08 am

Thank God that they are kicking Barak out.... truly a happy day in Israel and the world.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 9:03 am

The fate has been sealed. There will be war in the middle east.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Olympic A-340
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 9:26 am

I agree this spells out war in the future

Arrivederci
Olympic A-340
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 9:47 am

God forbid the Israelis choose their own president!

Thou doth protest too much!
 
G Dubya
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 9:57 am

Sharon must have won teh Israeli Electoral College, too.


G.
 
Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:21 am

Just great!
Now Israel has a war monger in charge just like the U.S.!

G Dubya now has a reason to justify military build up and I gaurantee there will be a war with US involvment in the middle-east soon!

I hope the Palistinians can deal a suprise blow to them damn trouble-making Israelis.

I am so sick of those Israeli militants!
Bring back the Concorde
 
Trvlr
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:35 am

I doubt Dubya would do anything to build up the military in the Gulf, much less Israel. He isn't very supportive (compared to the previous administration) of aggressive overseas involvment/meddling.

I hope Sharon isn't stupid enough to go and say nyah-nyah-nyah to the Palestinians again like he did @ the Temple Mount before this most recent conflict, or go and decisively condone the shooting of Palestinian protestors, or god forbid passive civilians. He probably is though, and this will probably lead to a major conflict, probably not in the form of another war but an extreme version of the Intifadah. Or maybe the Knesset will get fed up after the first few failed negotiations/mistakes and vote to kick him out and have new elections.

I think there will be a new election for Prime Minister in 6 months, tops. Anyone else want to bet?

Aaron G.
 
Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:40 am

I hope you'r right Trvlr!
Bring back the Concorde
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 11:44 am

this war has been going on over there for over 2000 yrs its damn unlikely that just another minister will stop it!
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 12:02 pm

I am so sick of you!

Your militant. No one on this thread made any personal attacks against any group of people untill you and your juvenile stereotyping comments.

Oh, and your wish that the Palestinians deal a "surprise blow" is insulting and disgusting. Shame on you for wishing for more violence and terror in the region. Shame on you, after all the Jews and Israel has done for the black people and Africa respectively. Your worthless.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 1:24 pm

I correct my 2001-02-07 01:47:48 post:

>God forbid the Israelis choose their own president!
Thou doth protest too much!

I meant prime minister, not president.

But it is very true: thou doth protest too much! The Israelis TRIED a left-wing PM and he failed. Now they're trying a PM from the right. And, frankly, I think the right will handle it much better.
 
Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 1:59 pm

TWAneedsNOhelp, I am in tears.  Crying


I do not hate Jews at all.
I just can't stand the militant Israelis.
Not all Israelis are militant. Barak was a great leader with good intentions. There were many things that were beyond his control that lead to his defeat.

BTW, Don't give me this 'How can you say this after all we've do for you' B/S.

You don't want to go there with me, OK!

 Smile  Smile  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:13 pm

The Palestinians have yet to recognize the israelis right to their own country. There will never be peace in the middle east. All those peace talks were show just to try to boost Clinton up..he never got anything accomplished. Sign a "treaty" and 1 day later another bomb goes off. Good one. We shall see where this one leads. One thing is guaranteed..there will not be peace over there for a long time to come. Period. I dont care who is president here or in leadership over there.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
tbar220
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:16 pm

Superfly,

TWANeedsNoHelp does have a point. The Israeli's saved the Ethiopians, they have taken in over a million Russian immigrants, and yet have lost six million in the holocaust, numerous amount in the Russian Pogroms, and not to mention all those killed by Palestinian terrorists. And you "hoping the Palistinians can deal a suprise blow to them damn trouble-making Israelis" to me is absolutely disgusting. Asking for more violence to a region that has been troubled by it for only God knows how long is disturbing.

As for Sharon, while he may be a controversial figure, he is favored by the Israeli population, so he must not be that extreme right wing. And it cannot be said that the Israeli population is a bunch of military is not true. So perhaps this belief that only extreme violence will come out of this is a little unbased, we shall see.

Tzvika
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Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:31 pm

TWAneedsNOhelp & Tbar220,
Let's not get into this again, OK.
I know not all Israelis are militant. There are many good people in Israel that really want peace.
People like Sharon is certainly not condusive to peace. He is only feeding the fire and I am sure Bush will give a helping hand in one way or another.

And please, don't try to butter me up with what Israel has done for the Ethiopians.

 Smile  Smile  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:37 pm

>And, frankly, I think the right will handle it much better.

Right, by bombing the hell out of everyone and everything that dares to move.
Dear moderators: No.
 
Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:41 pm

We're Nuts
Thats the only way the right knows how to operate!
Israelis have the war mongers too.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:42 pm

I didn't say that... we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out.
But I am glad they finally elected someone who isn't going to give in to the damn PLO.
 
Trvlr
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RE: N766AS

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:45 pm

Well it wouldn't have mattered because Yassir Arafat is a dumbass anyway. He just doesn't know where to stop.

Aaron G.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: N766AS

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:48 pm

Bush, please don't get involved... please!
Dear moderators: No.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 2:57 pm

Don't worry, those 6 months will have passed before Bush finds Israel on a map...

Ooohh, bad Bush joke. ssssssss Big grin

Aaron G.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:00 pm

Soo...lemme get this straight.
Its ok for Clinton to get involved, but not Bush. Because Bush won't cater to Arafat? Is that it? I think thats it- you're afraid hes not going to cooperate with the PLO and is actually going to help out the Jews. Hmm... this could actually have an effect on our elections in 2004, as far as the Jewish vote goes...
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:01 pm

It's purple, right? Big grin

We all remember what an unpopular war did to daddy....
Dear moderators: No.
 
We're Nuts
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N766AS...

Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:03 pm

If Bush gets involved, it means war for the US. Trust me, it's in the cards, we just have to hope Bush has the mind to stay far, far away....
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:06 pm

After Klinton got through with our military, I don't know how well we could put up a fight, but thats beside the point. And the Gulf Conflict wasn't very unpopular...only for some. And besides, that was Kuwait, this is Israel. Two different religions, cultures, politics, etc. No, this next four years will be different.
Well, I gotta get to bed... have a good one.
 
G Dubya
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:11 pm

trvlr said...
Don't worry, those 6 months will have passed before Bush finds Israel on a map...

Ooohh, bad Bush joke. ssssssss



Ha ha funny. I know where is Israel is...is'nt in Crown Heights, NY.

Goerge
 
G Dubya
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 3:14 pm

hmmm, come to thinkk of it...its in Skokie.

sincerly,

Goerge
 
cfalk
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 4:06 pm

This is very bad news for the region. I consider Sharon to be hardly better than Himmler or Eichman. His murderous conduct in Lebenon in the early 80's, including his involvement in the cold-blooded murder of men, women and children in refugee camps appears to have been conveniently forgotten. This just shows again that Israelis have a victimization complex. Only they can be victims, and nobody else. They call Arafat a terrorist, but forget that the birth of their own country came out of some pretty disgusting behaviour of their own in 1946-47.

Israel under Sharon will never grant the Palestinians what they want - nationhood and thir own borders. Israel gets a lot of their water supply from the West Bank (the Palestinians themselves are allowed to draw very little in comparison), and he won't let a little thing like a people's right to exist to stand in the way of that. The Palestinians could bend over backwards at the negotiating table and give in to every demand the Israelis make, and Sharon will still not grant them their independance, because Sharon considers the Palestinians as sub-human, or at least sub-Israeli. In a case like that, there is no reason for the Palestinians to negotiate with a man like that, and there will be more gravitation towards extremism.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
L-188
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Wed Feb 07, 2001 8:15 pm

LOT767-300ER this war has been going on over there for over 2000 yrs its damn unlikely that just another minister will stop it!

So very true. Probably the most intelligent thing that has been said on this thread so far.

How can you negotiate with somebody when:

A: They don't reconize your country or it's right to exist.
B: You have a long history of not getting along.
C: A really, really good portion of you populatio doesn't want to negotiate.

All things considered I am amazed it is as peaceful over there as it is.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 6:51 am

Cfalk & L-188, that was very well stated. Sharon being elected is very bad news for the region.

My earlier comments were a little extreme. It just really angers me whenever Israel continues to cry wolf and play the victim and turn around and mis-treat the Palestinians. We (United States) are always coming to there defense un-conditionally!
My 'Surprise Blow' comment doesn't necessarily mean a military strike. Someone or some nation needs to put Israel in check. We obviously aren't!
People have a tendency to fight till death for there land and that’s exactly what the Palestinians are doing.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Trvlr
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 8:46 am

G Dubya: Skokie. Haha I get it. But only b/c my dad lived there.

That must mean the man controlling you is from Chicago then. The veil begins to lift....

Aaron G.
 
FLY777UAL
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 8:54 am

Batton down the hatches.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 10:13 am

I am so sick of this Anti-Israel rhetoric. It's based on falsehoods and propaganda and is frankly, disturbing.

Superfly, I don't know at all what you wanted to say, what you mean to say, or what you wish upon the Israeli people, but I am willing to defend just about any and all actions they have committed in their bloody struggle for peace and prosperity. And while their own people are being bus-bombed, lynched, and threatened Israelis are around the world helping when disaster striked and assisting in catastrophe. It was only abour 3 years ago when over 1000 innocent Kenyans and Tanzanians were killed in senseless blasts by Islamic extremists. Israel was one of teh very first country's to send aid, search/recovery teams, and money to the two stricken citys. Israel has done the same for Turkey in its time of crisis and is now in India helping the survivors of the destruction. When Arabs are killed or hurt in Africa or Turkey, the middle east Arab world pledges support but doesn't act. And when they do, its horrendous, such as imprisoning Palestinian refugees in camps after the many Arab begun wars in the region.

So, you say "lets not get into that"? Well, lets, because it was my relatives who lives in Montgomery Alabama in the 1960s and supported blacks right, it was my relatives who gave their lives in Alabama signing up blacks to vote, it was my relatives in the 1800s who organised and financed the escape of blacks from the deep south, and it was my relatives who have gone to poverty stricked sub saharan africa inclduing Nigeria, Congo, and Rwanda and assisted the people there. So, bring it on, I'm proud and humbled what my people have done for yours.

Cfalk, I find your comments regarding Israeli's having a "victimization complex" disheatening. Israelis have been victims since the time of their state's founding. Israel has foight numerous wars against its welcoming nieghbors, NONE of which started by her. Israel has defended itself and its people time and time again against invading Arab armys who deny Israel's right to exist and still do. And it now has a victimization complex??? I am stunned that one could spew such ignorance. Israel has been the victim and despite of this has attempted with no success to make peace with its neighbors to no avail. Egypt and Jordan have resigned themself that Israel will not be destroyed and have entered the modern era and agreed to peace, the Palestinians who wish violence and tragedy among the peace loving, but cetainly not naiive people of Eretz Yisrael, have not. No longer will Israel sit back and get terror bombed, no longer will Israel soldiers be kidnapped by ruthless terrorists and no longer will Palestinains gain what they want by rioting and killing Israelis. Barak attempted peace, but Arafat rejected it, now if the Palestinians continue their bloody exercise in futility, they will unfortunately pay the penalty.

I, LIKE EVERY ISRAELI, wishes peace in the region, but peace with security, and if Palestinains continue their violence and force Israel to respond, peace, simply won;t be achieved.

I have one request. Confirm to me Israeli's are coldheated and bloodthirty people after viewing these pictures:
http://www.idf.il/english/idf_in_pictures/2001/february/india.stm#6
http://www.idf.il/english/idf_in_pictures/2001/february/5.stm#pic2
http://www.idf.il/english/idf_in_pictures/2001/january/30.stm

These actions have been repeated in Turkey, Kenya, and around the world. Do the Arabs help out in time of need?

kind rgds
russell
 
G Dubya
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RE: Trvlr

Thu Feb 08, 2001 10:16 am

Aaron your a very inteleegent man for your age. I wish I could be as smart as you are...even half as smart I would be satisfied.

probably not gonna happen.  Sad

regards,

Goerge

P.S. Are you sure yor not me?  Confused


back to the topic, pleaze...
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 10:24 am

Cfalk, I was particularly humored when reading about your supposed Israel "victimization complex" Check this out dude and than tell me what you think about "victimzation". You don;t see the stuff in these pictures in Geneva everyday do you?

Palestinian Authority: "We seek peace"
http://www.idf.il/english/idf_in_pictures/2000/october/piguim.stm

or how about this:
P.A.: "We have only rocks and stones"
http://www.idf.il/idf_in_pictures/hasata/hasata_eng.stm
 
cfalk
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 12:52 pm

There is always extremism. Why do you think those bombs keep going off, and the Palestinians keep fighting, sometimes via vicious means? It's frustration at Israel keeping them hostage. If Israel would step back accross the border, leaving the ENTIRE West Bank to the Palestinians, including their half of Jerusalem, with no reservations, I think you'll find that most Palestinians would show their appreciation by calming down. Why doesn't that happen? Religious reasons, for one - each side claims the site as holy. Also there are natural resources in the West Bank Israel isn't about to give up, and then of course you have these complete morons in the Israeli government and population who think it's their God-given right to set up Jewish settlements in the West Bank - right in the Palestinians' back yard. If I were Palestinian, I'd be royally pissed. And by the way, for every Israeli killed, how many do the Palestinians loose, eh? And don't forget there are extremists on both sides.

For your information, I used to be very much pro-Israeli. I started changing my mind after the "peace process" started a few years ago, and I saw how one-sided the Israeli attitude was. The Us vs. everyone else mentality - everyone else being the enemy. I can understand where that mentality grew up out of historical reasons, but it's time to grow out of it. While the Arab world was united against Israel, Israel held the moral high ground. But that high ground has been lost because of the bad-faith negotiations.

Sometimes, I think the best thing would be to raise a wall all around Israel and Palestine, and let you fight it out in peace, and stop bothering the rest of the world. It really has become a pain in the ass. Maybe someone should give each side nukes so that they can put themselves out of their (and everyone else's) misery. From where I stand, you all deserve it.

The rest of the world looks on both peoples (especially Israel) as particularly rotten brats who can't help fighting each other. Maybe everyone is right - the territory has been the subject of conflict for thousands of years, and it will continue to be for another thousand years. To that, I respond - Leave me out of it. I don't want to see it on CNN every day. It's been going on all my life, and I have been an avid news-watcher for 30 years.

There's my rant. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Superfly
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 1:02 pm

TWAneedsNOhelp, blacks are grateful for all the help during the Civil Rights Era, slavery and the continuing struggle for justice today. I don't hate Israeli people at all. I just don’t like when hotheads like Sharon assume power. The United States un-conditionally supports Israel even when they are wrong.
It's great that Israel has done some good things around the world. The Palestinians are Human Beings too and deserved to be treated as so. They deserve a homeland and I am sure we can agree that Palestine and Israel should co-exist.

Do you know who Tom Lantos is?
He is my U.S. Congressional representative. He is also a Jewish holocaust survivor. I volunteer for his campaigns and I am pretty active in the San Francisco Democratic Party.
I also voted and strongly supported Gore/Leiberman, Senator Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstien.

I also have a cousin in the U.S. House of Representatives who has a 100% pro-Israel voting record.I will not give his/her name out in this forum.

Lets be objective here.

 Smile  Smile  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 1:52 pm

This is very disturbing news.

One thing is a given here, we can probably expect a lot more trouble from the region soon. I don't want to think about the consequences or who will get involved.

Cfalk,

You make some very valid and interesting points, I tend to agree with you. I am unsure how the media portrays the violence in your neck of the woods, but usually here in Oz they (the media) are very nuetral.

But I did notice with the last round of bitter fighting that there was a slight bias toward the Pallestinians.

How many more lives are going to be lost?

mb
 
tbar220
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 2:11 pm

Superfly,

I agree with you in that Israel and the Palestinians should coexist. I will say though that Israel is the only nation that is willing to coexist witht the Palestinans! When Israel gave back the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt, why didn't the Egyptians take Gaza strip? Because it was populated with Palestinans! When Israel offered to give back the West Bank to Jordan, why didn't Jordan jump at the opportunity? Because it was populated by Palestinians!

The Palestinians who live under Israeli law, in the West Bank and Gaza have it better than they would be treated by their so called Arab brothers. The king of Jordan had 3000 Palestinans slaughtered during his reign. The Palestinians of Lebanon live in conditions where 90% don't have running water or electricity, and chaos for government. Israel provides for the running water and electricity in the West bank and Gaza, they provide for the housing and shelter, not the makeshift crap tents that the government of Jordan and Lebanon give the Palestinians.

The Palestinians are much better off under Israel then they ever were, yet Yassir Arafat has manipulated the system so he can remain in power at the poor of his people. Instead of curbing the violence of the militant groups, Arafat has used it is as his tool and used his people as his pawn in his greater game for power. And the world gets upset that the Jews of Israel defend themselves from attacks from Arab neighbors, from attacks from Palestinian terrorists, and the world gets upset when the Israeli population overwhelmingly votes for a slightly controversial prime minister.

I think that the world as a whole needs to stop being against Jews, whether it is in their home nation, or in Israel. I guess that only in the last fifty years have we seen an improvement, only when the Jews lost six million in the holocaust that people showed some respect.

Tzvika
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cfalk
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RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 3:08 pm

Boeing,

"JERUSALEM BELONGS TO THE ISREAL YOU SWISS PIECE OF SHIT!!!!"

Do I need any more proof about there being extremists on both sides? By the way, I was more or less of the same opinion when I was your age, some 20 years ago. I hope you grow out of it, as I did.

Jerusalem is a holy site to all three monotheistic religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Why should the Israelis insist on having it all? Right of Conquest? Just be glad the Christians don't get it into their heads to claim it for themselves as well (they did it before).

The only fair thing would be for Jerusalem to be independant, like the Vatican. Fat chance of that happening, though.

Charles

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 3:22 pm

Superfly,

Thank you for a polite and decent responce. I only got emotional because the context of your first post seemed to be a wish of violence and terror against the Israelis. I now, think you meant something else.

Anyway, yes Israelis and Palestinians WANT to co-exist very much. But its very difficult, there are several important issues that stand between them. Amongst them is of course Jerusalem. The Israelis want it to be one city controlled by Israel. The Palestinians want to make Old Jerusalem (holy to three religions) their capital remove it from Israel. This disturbs the Israelis deeply for several reasons:

1) Prior to the Jordanian/Syrian/Egyptian-iniated 1967 Yom Kippur War, East JErsualem was controlled by Jordan including the revered Western Wall (Judaism's holiest site). Jews were not allowed to pray there, let alone visit there. However, Israel never made any agressions to its neighbor to take East Jerusalem, untill the Arabs attempted to invade Israel (unsuccesfully) and lost the west bank. Only than did Israel take E. Jerusalem and Jews were allowed to pray there. However, just above the wall is the Noble Sanctuary, which while not appearing anywhere in the Qu'ran (Jerusaelm isn't mentioned either), is holy to Islam and Israel not only allowed Muslims to pray at but surrended day to day contol of it to Muslim clerics. Such is the way of the Jews.

Now, the Arabs want East Jerusalem back and Jews are very nervous (we don't trust Arabs all that much) that we may lose the western wall and all sacred to Judaism if Arafat and his terrorist militias control it. Their record on preserving Jewish holy sites is shitty (David's Tomb). So, Israel WILL NOT divide Jerusalem. We won it from an invading army, the Palestinians NEVER lived there, never held title to it, so why should something so important to us be given to them, when its possible we could lose it forever.

Another issue involves the so called "right of return" that Palestinains who left Israel after its founding be allowed to return and live in Israel. This has only been brought up in negotiations recently, a sign that once the Arabs get one thing, they wont stop and will try and get more. We offered parts of Jerusalem, they sensed weakness, and now are demanding more. Well, Israel will never allow the Palestinains back in because very simply, it would destroy Israel. Israel was mandated by the British Government (owner of Palestine prior to Israel/Jordan/Lebanon) and the UN as the Jewish State. Now, that doesn't mean that non jews can't live in Israel, they do, and happily for the most part. Druze and Arab Israelis take part in all facets of society (not required to serve in the defense force however) as do Christians. But allowing in over 2,000,000 angry anti-Israeli violent Palestinians who have determined to detroy Israel for 50 years is something Israelis are not too excited about. It won't happen, it can't. Israel would cease to exist.

I don't know what CFalk is talking about in regards to resources. All of Israel, territories included, are pretty devoid of resources, it's mostly dessert. Water is scarce and most is desalinized from the Dead and Red Seas. So I'm not really sure what you are talking about. Oil? No way dude. Gold? haha. Rocks? You bet!

What are the other issues? Statehood? Yeah I guess. Israel just wants peace, if that means the Palestinian Authority becoming a real state, so be it. They've already got a casino and airport, so I guess they are pretty close.  Smile

Palestinians, however, don't want to be cut off from Israel. Israel is short on labor and high paying jobs are readily available as are modern conviences, good hospitals, shopping, and entertainment. Now, no Palestinians are allowed in. If PA becomes a state, expect that to continue.

Regards,
russell

Tzvika: Your spot-on. I wish our friends here had a clue.

Cfalk, most of your post makes no sense. Raising a wall and giving both sides missiles to destroy each other??? Do you have the IQ of a rat's tuckus?

Your upset because you have to *READ* about the conflict on the news??? Aww poor child. It's not like all your windows are sandbagged because of sniper fire from across the street, or your too afraid to drive on a certain road out of fear of being robbed and murdered. Or maybe taking a bus to work......Or you son/daughter on a school bus......Or your wife coming home from the market taking a short cut. Nope thats no big deal, you have to read about the trouble and thats absolutely tragic. Well, sorry to disturb you.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Thu Feb 08, 2001 3:57 pm

Superfly,

My point is that people have had enough of the fighting. It's been going on for thousands of years, and no end in sight because neither side is willing to give up what they have. And you have to admit that right now, as they have for the past 30 years, the Israelis hold nearly all the cards. Why can't they accept the need of the Palestinians to live within their own borders? While they have some autonomy now, if you look at their areas on a map, it's hardly a wonder why it doesn't work.

Perhaps my "nuke" comment was over the top. I apologize for that. But can you understand the exasperation that leads to that sort of thinking? There have been peoples fighting elsewhere, but they generally quieten down after a couple of years - this region seems to be hopeless. MAINLY because Israel does not want to give up the West Bank, for a variety of reasons. The Palestinians hardly have much to give.

Your statement about all Palestinians wanting to destroy Israel is over-generalizing. If Israel was willing to grant them their own country, most of them would have no problem accepting Israel as a next door neighbor. I know this because I have been to Gaza, and everyone told me the same thing - they want their own country - and if that means Israel is next door, fine. You may have some hard-liners who are unwilling to do so, but if you allow them their own state, you can isolate them even from their own countrymen. They would become terrorists even for their own people, instead of "Freedom Fighters".

Most people just want to be left in peace. Unfortunately a new hard-line government in Israel will only agrevate the problem more, frustrate more people to the point of being willing to commit terrorism, and alienate not the terrorists (on both sides), but the poor people in the area who just want to work and raise their children in peace. The only difference between Sharon and Hitler that I can fathom is that he hasn't proposed gas chambers. Just about all the other tactics he has openly promoted and implemented. Sort of ironic, don't you think?

Tell me:

Are you in favor of Israeli settlements in the West Bank?

Are you in favor of Israel pumping all the water out of the West Bank, piping it to Israel, and leaving hardly any for the local inhabitants (except if you are in a settlement)?

Are you in favor of giving all of the holy sites to only one of the religions, and restricting access to them for the others who wish to visit them?

Are you in favor of Israel using gestapo-like tactics against Palestinians in their areas (previously in all areas)?

I'd also like to hear from you what you propose would be an acceptable solution (killing or subduing all Palestinians and keeping their land is not acceptable).

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
airlinefreak1
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2000 5:13 pm

TWAneedsNOhelp+everyone

Thu Feb 08, 2001 7:37 pm

you r a very paranioed israeli ......
arabs did help in the indian earthquake ....... The united arab emirates donated 1,000,000 dhs to the goverment of india and pakistan and sent a 747 jet ,full of medicine and food and doctors .
other countries did the same , so shut up because u r pissing everyone off ......
u obviously hate arabs ,
peace will never happen if that old PIG called sharon is going to stay in power ..... he is responsible of what happened in lebanon -the mascare of sabra and shatila in lebanon . etc....... u call that fair ?!?
u should visit this site and look at the pictures .....
http://www.ummah.net/unity/sabra/gallery/index.html
http://www.ummah.net/unity/sabra/main.html
 
Guest

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:00 am

>I started changing my mind after the "peace process" started a few years ago, and I saw how one-sided the Israeli attitude was

Or saw the Clinton media showing one side of the Israeli attitude.... it wouldn't be the first time.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Breaking NEWS: Sharon Victory In Israel

Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:13 am

>MAINLY because Israel does not want to give up the West Bank

Israel did want to give up the West Bank, Gaza, part of Jerusalem...it was actually Yassir Arafat who did not accept it!!

Aaron G.

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