We're Nuts
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Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Sun Mar 04, 2001 4:55 pm

The forum us slowing down a bit, so I thought I'd liven it up with some Liberal squawking Big grin

Are prisons, and more specifically chain gangs, tough on crime or cruel on humans?

When done correctly, I think prisons and hard labor can be humane, but not in their present form. Prison has never been used as a deterrent and was never designed to. Trying to make it will only leave lives destroyed. Prison is a way to get the dangerous off the streets, away from people. A great Conservative myth is that by making prisons inhumane, the crime rate will go down. We've already proven that wrong, but some people still believe it. At what point will these people realize that all humans have the same feelings as they do!?

Okay, have at it guys.
Dear moderators: No.
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 1:21 am

In all my liberalness, chain gangs are not cruel or tough. As a mater of fact, I don't know why more states don't dring them back. The old additive states, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Go ahead We're Nut's...have a field day with this one.
 
Hole_Courtney
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 1:39 am

I think people are in prison for a reason. Because it has been proven (in the majority of cases) that these people are not capable of following the rules the govern society. Chain gangs are nothing inhumane, and are probably good if they're helping with community service.

The effect of punishment of prisoners is a different matter entirely, but chain gangs are just a way for the prisoners to make them selves useful to the society that they had problems living in.

live forever,
hole_courtney
"[He] knew everything about literature, except how to enjoy it." - Yossarian, Catch 22
 
D L X
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:03 am

"Prison is a way to get the dangerous off the streets, away from people."

Which is the main reason that most prisons include the term "Department of Corrections" in their title, right? Prisons have dual roles: to separate the criminals from the lawabiding, and to "correct" the people who found themselves in jail. (That means making sure they don't want to come back.)

Chain gangs are not cruel. Chain gangs are not inhumane. Chain gangs make criminals want to do right so they don't have to be on a chain gang again.

 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:08 am

Hmmm, people aren't taking to this topic like I thought they would.

Okay, let's bring that psychopath Joe Arpaio into it. How long until his prison system kills another inmate?


Oh, and the topic title, is just that, a title  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Don't limit this thread to Chain Gangs.
Dear moderators: No.
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:14 am

Please tell me were not gonna revist the almost 200 Arpaio post WN. My view hasn't changed one bit on him. Every prision in America should check out his system, and build there own around a similar platform.
 
N312RC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:32 am

I agree with Sheriff Joe, I'm sad to say. Guess that's because I'm a conservative!

If someone screws up and breaks the law, thats the way they should be treated. They must "pay" for their wrongdoing.
N/A
 
Matt D
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:44 am

I agree. We as a society have gone way too soft on prisoners. What ever happened to the good old days where the prisoners had a 200 pound steel ball chained to their ankles, and they pounded rock piles with sledgehammers for 12 hours a day?

 
ctbarnes
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:02 am

The sole reason there are chain gangs are so politicans can point to them and claim to their consituants they are being tough on crime. There is one significant fallacy however: prison is not a deterrent. There is no data to suggest that the harshness of the prison regeme has any effect on the fall in crime rates, or more importantly, re-offender rates. They are only there so some sheriff or politician can get him or herself re-elected.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:39 am

Doing hard labor doesn't change anything, it mearly kills.
Dear moderators: No.
 
An-225
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:41 am

I am against chain gangs. Prisoners are humans too. The prison should help them get back on track, and not make them angry at everyone and make them want to commit more crimes.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Matt D
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Beer Nuts

Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:41 am

And your point is.........??????
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Beer Nuts

Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:54 am

That is a new one, somewhat amusing.

And if you are so trigger happy with these human's lives, what do you do with the wrongly convicted? Let them die anyway?
Dear moderators: No.
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:07 am

An225: What more would you like prisions to do. Once incarcerated, you can get free education to include your high school diploma, and 4 year degree! Its all a matter of if the prisioner choses to do it. No prision system can make a prisoner choose the best path once out of jail. All it can do is offer an incentive to stay clean, and chain gangs, and less than comfortable livnig conditions do this. I remember way back when I madethe comment that Beer, ahem, We're Nuts was talking like he would put these prisoners up in the Mariott. These people, while humans, didn't care about the people they were killing, raping, stealing from, ect. When a person takes the rights of a law abiding citizen away, why should they be coddled? Once in jail, they should have it tough. No T.V., or radios. At best, I would offer them classes on the pro's and con's of say clean living, but other than that, they should not be treated like royalty. They are in jail for a reason. Before evey prisoner commits their crime, they no the consequences. If they still commit the crime, then to me, that means they accept the punishment if caught. Hell, I wish I could shake Sheriff Joe's hand!
 
Guest

RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:13 am

Chain gangs? Isn't that slightly barbarous? What sort of vicious, sadistic nation are some of you living in?

VIOLENCE breeds VIOLENCE

Prison is bad enough as it is without resorting to cruelty.

mb
 
Superfly
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:13 am

I an against 'Chain Gangs' in prison.

If we want to rid our society of violent crimes or keep it to a minimal, coorectional facilities need to be actual coorectional facilities. Our current prisons are training grounds for criminals to be more violent criminals. They are treated like animals and are not trained to be more productive members of our society.
Bring back the Concorde
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:21 am

KROC, you keep saying that I would put them up in a 5-start hotel, but all I want is humanity. Is the right to life a free ride?
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:26 am

Chain Gangs are right. Prisoners should be punished like hell. So hopefully the get the message not to come back. Atleast something good is beening done. WE nrrd more prisions. Here in NY if you get 10 years you'll be lucky to stay 5, it's just sad. GO CHAIN GANGS!

Eric
 
EGGD
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British Prisons!

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:31 am

Most British Prisons have Sauna's in the cell's and A la Carte Buffet's. They have Sports and Leisure activitys. Sometimes I feel like doing something illegal to get off paying taxes and buying food/clothes Big grin

Regards EGGD
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:00 am

WN, as far as I am concerned, there is plently enough humanity in prision. Where the lack of humanity is, is in the criminals themselves. Thats why they are in prision.

Mx5_boy, spare me your sadistic nation crap. Oh wait, I better end it there, before you start crying bloody murder, because someone is talking bad about you.  Yeah sure
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:05 am

Enough humanity, even though Psycho Joe's officers murdered an inmate?
Dear moderators: No.
 
copper1
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:45 am

You guys have it all wrong. We should force these people to do nothing. We then feed them high fat diets with lots of sugar and starches. When they get out of prison they are all too fat and out of shape to commit crime. Letting these guys work out or making them work hard only lets thems get/stay in shape.
(tongue in cheek)

The prison system in nearly every western country is a dismal failure. It does not rehabilitate nor punish to a high enough level to turn anyone from a life of crime. Prisons have become warehouses for those amongst us who refuse to follow society's rules. We have always had them, we always will have them. Throwing more money into the system has no tangible impact yet cutting money from the system fails as well.

Crime is just a fact of life and we all have to deal with. Short of executing everyone who commits a crime we will never eliminate it.( and even that would not work) There are fluctuations in crime rates based on demographics and the economy but there will always be someone who will break the law

Is the main purpose of prison to punish or is it to rehabilitate? That is a question that can and is debated to the point of nauseum.


Copper1
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:05 am

WN, again, you are singling out Sherrif Joe. Inmates die at the hands of guards regularly. While this is not good, many times it comes becuase the inamte is acting out. Self Defense becomes neccesary and at times, when all is said in done, a killer, or a rapist might be dead. Again WN, don't be so short sighted because you don't like Sher. Joe. It happens in prisions not only in America, but all over the world.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:11 am

Self Defense becomes neccesary and at times, when all is said in done, a killer, or a rapist might be dead.

Or perhaps someone wrongly convicted...

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:42 am

Self Defense becomes neccesary and at times, when all is said in done, a killer, or a rapist might be dead.

Or perhaps someone wrongly convicted...


Or maybe a kid, in for possession of drugs....
Dear moderators: No.
 
Matt D
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:45 am

I have to agree with Copper1 on this one. What to do with prisoners is something that can be argued for infinity.
What I would like to see is more emphasis on crime PREVENTION (not to be confused with cradle-to-grave coddling that the Liberals would love to do), so that way these people don't end up incarcerated in the first place.
And if that fails, then it will be "open season" on them.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:48 am

Matt D, if I have time later, would you like to go out and club some baby seals?
Dear moderators: No.
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:49 am

Or perhaps someone wrongly convicted...

Or maybe a kid, in for possession of drugs....

Chances are someone wrongly convicted will not be causing a disturbance warrenting the use of deadly force. Same goes for a drug holder. If they do, again, they know what will happen. Next.
 
Matt D
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:52 am

We're Mutts:  Big grin
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:53 am

So no matter what, it is the prisoner's fault, right? Becuase the guards are beyond human emotions and feelings, right? And you get mad at Brissie for thinking Aussie is perfect....  Yeah sure

Double-standard.
Dear moderators: No.
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:58 am

Don't ASSume WN, you know what happens. What I am doing is taking the opposite side in what you are arguing. You make it seem like the gaurds are aalways at fault. And you put Bobo at the little kids table.  Yeah sure
 
Carioca Canuck
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:00 pm

I think that bringing back chain gangs would do some good for the Mississippi Delta style of blues music. Give them a rubber hammer and tell them to pound gravel for 12 hours straight.

After all.........it's hard to write a song about being blue when you're sitting in front of a TV set in an air conditioned jail.  Smile

We sort of have them here in Alberta. The "work crews" regularly wear orange coveralls, and clean garbage from the sides of the highways and various things like that.

There's no sherriff in shades though.......or chains.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:01 pm

Chances are someone wrongly convicted will not be causing a disturbance warrenting the use of deadly force. Same goes for a drug holder. If they do, again, they know what will happen. Next.

Sorry Kroc, you can't make that kind of generalization. There is simply no way of knowing how a particular person will react in this or any other situation. Past behaviors are only indicators. They may not be reliable predictors. And if you get raped enough times, there is no telling what a normally docile person will do.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
D L X
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:36 pm

Could someone please tell me what exactly makes chain gangs "inhumane?"

Yes. It is so inhumane to put everyone on a chain and make them clean up litter alongside the interstate. Come on, now.
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 12:48 pm

Charles: Good point, you got me there.

DLX: I totally agree with your statement.
 
Guest

RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 2:00 pm

Kroc says,


"""Mx5_boy, spare me your sadistic nation crap. Oh wait, I better end it there, before you start crying bloody murder, because someone is talking bad about you."""

What do you call people who enjoy the suffering of others?

What do you call people who get enjoyment out of cruelty to others?

Sadist / Sadism. Look it up in the dictionary.

I think the 'sadistic nation' thought is a good one. Thoroughly describes some of the opinions of those on this board. You might find it valuable that most people in my country would find chain gangs barbarous and inhumane, and that clown called Sherrif Joe would be de-commissioned forthwith.

BTW - Kroc, I have never complained a single time about anyone talking "bad about me". Find a thread and show it to me. You are full of shit.

I'd like to see you in pink panties in the heat of the desert eating spoiled food for not paying a speeding ticket on time. Ooops, forgot to pay your speeding ticket? That will be 5 days with Sherrif Joe the Sadist.

Some of the things that come out the mouths of people in this forum....

mb

 
cicadajet
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 2:39 pm

Some people function as virtual "one man crime waves" --getting up in the morning or at night and committing one petty crime after another all throughout their waking hours...occasionally escalating to very serious crimes. Others only commit serious crimes every week or every month or so.. Soooooooo IF you lock these criminal types up for a good stretch in the slammer...alot of them at one time.. your crime rate will in FACT fall significantly. I'm not speaking here of the absurd first offense/second offense small marijuana prison sentences that are rather insane..but rather the violent crime and robbery types.. lock 'em up consistently for significant periods of time and watch the crime rate fall... worked great in New York... recommend it in a city near you.


 
copper1
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:48 pm

We're Nuts. I'll go club baby seals with you, give me a call.

Copper 1
 
KROC
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Mon Mar 05, 2001 10:20 pm

>I'd like to see you in pink panties in the heat of the desert eating spoiled food for not paying a speeding ticket on time. Ooops, forgot to pay your speeding ticket? That will be 5 days with Sherrif Joe the Sadist.

I bet you would like to see me in pink panties, but you see, that happens to criminals! I do not break the law. Forget to pay a speeding ticket, you pay more first, long before a bench warrent is issued. Maybe if you had a clue about what you were trying to discuss, you would be better off. Also, I am far from a Sadist. Just cause I refuse to treat a convict like a prince, does not make me one. As a law abiding citizen, if someone robs me, or tries to kill me, they should be punished! Not coddled, or givin therapy. I have enough common sense to follow the law, and should for some reason I stray from course, there are people like sherrif Joe to think about. To me, it just doesn't make any sense? Hmmm, steal this car, or steel this car, get caught, go to Joe's jail, then bitch and moan about how bad it is.........The criminal has a choice. If they make the wrong one, I can't help that. Thats why there are jails, for people that make the wrong decision.
 
blink182
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 11:25 am

I have views on both sides:
Yes: Lets face it, they did the crime and now they are serving the consequences and having them chained up will make them miserable and regret doing the crime and they know what prison is like so they know that prison is like hell on earth.

No: Okay, after doing all that work and embarassment, anger builds up inside and eventually they will snap and be back in months or even days and weeks. But if you feed them a lot and make them bored to death, they will be weak when they get out and won't have the energy to commit a crime.
rgds,
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
cicadajet
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RE: Chain Gangs: Tough Or Cruel?

Tue Mar 06, 2001 11:54 am

I'm glad a really good Sam Cooke song came out of it.

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