We're Nuts
Topic Author
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Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:06 am

What are your opinions of book banning in schools? I am vehemently against it (as you all probably could have guessed). Students should have as much access to different viewpoints as we do. Book banning is done out of fear. The fear of opinions. Let me tell you about an incident that thrust my little island into the spotlight:

Our own John Carlson (Republican Governor candidate, 2000), thought he would take out his right-wing anger on our Middle School Librarian (who I have met, and is the sweetest person you could ever know). The whole controversy started when 15 years ago, this teacher, alarmed by the number of pregnancies at our local HS, ordered two books: Boys and Sex and Girls and Sex.

A parent was upset by these books, sent in parts of it to this radio station. Now I should state here that these books are very graphic, and quite frank, but there are that way to do a job.

Anyway, John started off his program by saying how the teacher REQUIRED 6th graders to read this book. The first falsity of many, as a Librarian can't make anyone read. And of course any calls pointing out his oversight were not put on the air. Next, he described the "pornographic" pictures in the book. Hmmmm, what's the problem? I've looked at every page in that book, and guess what... NO PICTURES! None whatsoever. Lie number 2.

And unfortunately, the only calls Mr. Carlson let on the air were outraged parents and death threats on this poor teacher's life. And it was only out of the goodness of this teacher's life that she didn't sue Johnny, and he better be thankful, because after all the slander, she could have taken every cent he owned.

For two hours the lies went on. John was out for ratings, nothing else, and that is what really gets me. Challenge a book if you really believe in what you are saying, I will still disagree, but at least I will respect you. I have no respect for John.

18 months of debates later, the school board refused to remove the books, and they sit on their shelf, the same way they did 15 years ago. This is the one time you will ever hear me compliment a school board.

Outrageous, yes? And that even isn't the end of it. John was so happy with his ratings, he did it all over again the next day. Disgusting.

Book banning has no place in our society.


Okay, I'm done venting. Thanks for listening!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:54 am

Where some schools don't have mandatory sex education classes, or have sex education classes but parents need to give their consent, I feel it is extremely important to have sex ed books available in the school library.

It's so important for teenagers these days to have a thorough understanding of their bodies, the dangers of unprotected sex, how to spot an STD and general sexual health.

I find it quite disgraceful that some puritanical parents may try and have certain things banned.

My year 10 form teacher was the school librarian. She had special screenings of different educational programs for just our class such as sex ed and the disturbing video of Christian F. (drug addict movie) which had been banned in Queensland schools at the time. Why? Because she wanted to make sure we 'knew'. I'm glad my form teacher did that for us, as even though my mother told me about the bird and the bees, I was unaware of STD's and drug addiction.

She also put Penthouse and Playboy into the 'Periodicals' section at one stage after she found requests in the request box at the school library. We all thought that was amusing, certain parents found out though and they were removed. This was in the 80's though.

Cheers,

mb
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:18 am

Mx5_boy, I agree. However, there is and should be a limit to freedom of speech when it becomes offensive and intrusive on others. Much like the news in the recent past about a Muslim girl that had complaints for her school when her class was reading a book that contained anti-Muslim content. As should be in other similar cases, she should not be forced to read the book that she found to be offensive.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:27 am

I believe it was Oliver Wendall Holmes who once said that freedom of speech does not extend to someone who falsely yells 'Fire' in a crowded theatre.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 2:04 pm

Remember it is supposed to be a school library, therefore connected with education. I would not mind having "Boys and Sex" and "Girls and Sex" in there, seeing that they are (I guess) educational, whereas I don't see the point of having Penthouse and Playboy in there (Although I admit I would have enjoyed it if they had been there  Smile/happy/getting dizzy)

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
We're Nuts
Topic Author
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:02 pm

"The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It will be the person who does not know how to learn."

--Alvin Toffler
Dear moderators: No.
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
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RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:05 pm

I heard that "Of Mice and Men" was banned in some US schools. Great book though.

Pacific
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
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RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:15 pm

I am totally against it. It's another form of censorship.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:07 am

Well, the schools have no problem infringing on students' other Constitutional rights, so why stop here?

Now, if this was a public library then I'd have major issues with it.

And, Adam, do you ever even listen to the John Carlson show on 570KVI?

Everyone- John Carlson isn't nearly as extreme as Adam makes him out to be. Thats why he won the primary (Republicans--especially in Washington State--don't like extremes!). I would much rather have seen Harold Hochstatter (more conservative than Carlson) in the race.
 
JetService
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Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 2:36 am

Freedom of Speech does not mean anything goes. As mentioned before, you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded place (unless there IS a fire), and it is criminal to threaten the President. So use common sense. Should Hustler be available in school libraries? Of course not. If you think a certain book should available, debate that on its purpose and how schools intend to use it as a tool for what they are suppose to be doing, don't just hide behind Constitution. Also keep in mind, most parents work very hard to teach their kids morals and values, and don't want schools mucking that up. They aren't necessarily being puritanical, they just feel the state has no business training them on certain topics. Schools need to stick to educating in the basic curriculum, and not start moving into the realm of 'raising' children; that job is taken. Yeah, I know, some parents do a shitty job raising their kids, but some don't bathe their kids either. Do we want to start having schools bathing kids too? Use common sense on a case-by-case basis, not reactionary emotions based on a general ideal.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 3:27 am

Great post, Jetservice.
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:15 am

I think book banning is crazy!
In Finland AFAIK the only books banned are books containing Nazi stuff. Once when i was at the school library with my friends 'working' on a project, we found a book about Kama Sutra, so banning books isn't really the case in Finland (if that would've happened in the US somebody would've sued the school). In the US some elementary schools even ban Harry Potter books and that is completely crazy.

Regards
Alexander Holst
Helsinki, FInland
ICQ 94604005
 
We're Nuts
Topic Author
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RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:54 am

JetService, doing away with book banning doesn't mean anything can get in a library. Remember, there are still teachers who must ORDER the books.

N766AS, I was wondering how you'd defend him, but you are still avoiding the fact that he is an entertainer who will ruin anyone's life to further his career... even YOURS! Maybe you like to see Jerry Springer running for President? Carlson is not a politician, and that is why so many Republicans and Conservatives voted against him.
Dear moderators: No.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
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RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:15 am

Maybe you like to see Jerry Springer running for President?

Don't laugh. Springer was mayor of Cincinnati before his descent into trash TV.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:16 am

Quite the contrary... Carlson is very much a politican- never an elected official though. He has run many state initiatives, such as the I-200 bill (anti-AA) a couple years ago, the 'Hard time for Armed Crime' initiative back in 95, and the 'Three strikes, you're out' legislation in the early 90s. He founded a political research center in Seattle in the early 80s which was praised by Presidents Reagan and Bush. Hes been a political commentator on radio (named one of the most influential radio personalities) and television, as well as writing a syndicated newspaper column and has appeared in the WSJ and Washington Post.
So I'm sure you've got the idea now. He is not an 'entertainer'. He entered political TV, radio, and print media years after he became politically active. Bill Clinton is much more an entertainer than Carlson.

But I'd rather have someone that's not a politician running this state... we'd get some real change instead of this BS that Locke is giving us.

My stand on the issue at hand is that certain schools should not have certain books, but there shouldn't be a 'banned list'. If someone wants a book so bad, they can go the extra couple blocks to the public library. In short, librarians should use reasonable discretion, something it appears this librarian hasn't done (unless, of course, she is a high school librarian, which she isn't).
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:19 am

Oh, speaking of Locke... I can't wait until the whole state government is shut down this week because of his horrible handling of the unions.


Hahahahahahahahahaha  Big grin
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 6:33 am

But I'd rather have someone that's not a politician running this state... we'd get some real change instead of this BS that Locke is giving us.

Be careful what you wish for, Zach. But then, you're too young to remember Dixie Lee Ray...

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Guest

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 7:04 am

No- I'm not too young... I remember (well, not exactly 'remember', but you know what I mean) how poorly Dixy Lee Ray handled the volcano eruption among other things. I guess you could call her term as governor 'interesting'. I wouldn't want just any person running the state, and definately not someone like her.

One thing about Ray that I thought was funny: she named her pigs after news reporters. haha  Big grin
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
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RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 7:07 am

she named her pigs after news reporters.

...From the P-I, no doubt Big grin

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
We're Nuts
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Book Banning In Schools... Unconstitutional?

Thu Apr 19, 2001 9:18 am

Okay, if Carlson is such a God, then what do you think of his "jihad" against a sweet Librarian, who was only trying to do some good, that almost got him sued? Surely you don't advocate the lies and rumors he spread....

You may support him, but you shouldn't be so blind that you can't see what an asshole he was/is.

And I sure as hell wouldn't trust *him* with my pet rock, let alone my state.
Dear moderators: No.

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