Matt D
Topic Author
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 6:36 am

Ok, rather then get into the now growing tired debate about America and its "petty puritanism", let's all see what, in your mind would constitute a "perfect" country-one that you would not be able to complain about.

If I had my way, these great United States would be something like the following:

Everybody would be required to speak a common language-namely English. Communication is essential, and pockets of people all speaking their own native tongues is divisive, and creates more problems than it solves vis-a-vis education, cultural tolerance, etc.

English comprehension on a measurable 8th grade or higher level is mandatory for legal admission into the States. If you want to speak your native tongue among your family, fine. But anywhere else, your language is the official one: English.

Any person or persons attmpting to illegally enter the United States is subject to DNA collection, incapacitation, or death from the Border Patrol. Persons aiding and abetting in illegally bringing persons into the United States are subject to lifetime imprisonment and/or Capital Punishment.

Prisoners shall perform necessary public service such as litter collection, graffitti cleanup, bridge repair, etc so as to earn a return on the costs of their incarceration.

No signage, advertising, road signs, or Government forms will be permitted to be printed in any language other than English.

If you are going to emmigrate here, you are no longer a person of whatever land you came from, be it Mexico, France, Canada, China, Korea, or Jupiter. There will be NO ethnic categorizing. Either you are an American, or you are not. If you want to be Peruvian, fine. Then you belong in Peru.

The loser in any lawsuit will be required to pay the winners legal costs as well as their own. Failure to do so will result in seizure of assets and/or imprisonment commensurate with the length of the trial and what the legal bills final total is.

Literary tests mandatory for voting. If you do not posess basic cognitive skills, and have the requisite skills for decision making and following directions, you have no business participating in the leadership/initiative process.

If a spouse is found guilty of infidelity/adultery in any established marriage, that spouse automatically loses 100% of their assetts regardless of when obtained to the other spouse.

Abortion is only legal is medically verifiable instances where the fetus and/or mothers life is clearly in jeopardy if the pregnancy is allowed to proceed. Cases involving rape and incest will be handled on a case-by-case basis, and will require provable evidence.

The complete and total abolition of Social Security, Welfare, HUD, WIC, Medicare, and any and all other taxpayer funded Public Benefits, with the exception of Unemploymnt Insurance. No exceptions. The phaseout of Social Security will occur over a 10 year period. the amount that you will pay (and be eligible for in benefits) will be determined by your age and how much you have paid into it. If on January 1, 2001, you were 25 years of age, or younger, you will be exempted from paying any further SS taxes. You also will not be eligible for ny benefits upon your retirement. No refunds will be given so as to ensure that current obligations are paid. No person shall be allowed into the United States without proof of literacy and self sufficiency.
No US citizen will be eligible for any kind

Marriage (and all marriage related benefits-from tax breaks to health benefits) is recognized by the State as between a man and a woman only.

All corporations, businesses, government agencies,and groups are free to determine who thry hire, except, and who they do not at their sole discretion, and predetermined qualifications. There is no forced inclusion or Affirmative Action. If a group of Blacks want to start a "Black Only" business, they are free to do so without reprimand. Same goes for any other segment of society. If the Boy Scouts want to exclude Gays from their ranks, they are free to do so without fear of retribution.

Persons determined to be 51% or more at fault for any motor vehicle collision shall lose their license for 30 days and pay fines to the State in amounts to be determined. These fines double with each violation, until the 4th incident, at which time the offender will lose their license for life. If they are caught driving without a license, that is automatically 5 years jail time.

All drivers must pass not only written and visual tests, but also hearing and reflex tests as well. Those that cannot pass will not be issued a license.

Legal age for alcohol purchase and consumption lowered to age 18. However a DUI conviction is punishable up to and including lifetime incarceration.

Complete freedom of religion or freedom from religion as you desire. Government will take no part in any religious dispute. If a judge or teacher hangs The 10 Commandments on their wall, that is their right. If you are offended by it, you may attend a different school. No protests ordering their removal will be honored.

Establish different curriculums in school that pertain to different religious persuasions, or a lack thereof. All will be equal in terms of requisite graduation. As an example, schools will be free to teach any subject from any religious, or atheist perspective. Students (or parents) will be free to choose whichever program they desire. An "A" earned in athesistic secular Biology will be equal to an "A" earned from a Christian (or any other religious) perspective.






I could go on (and I probably will, but this is enough for now).
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 6:51 am

I completely agree, except I might lighten the punishment for illegal immigration, maybe not capital punishment but a long prison term or something.
 
lax2000
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 9:12 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 7:10 am

Good God!!! That Sounds Hellacious!!!  Wow!
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 7:25 am

what would yours be Lax2000?

Divide all earnings among the population, everyone has the same income (street bums earn as much as entrepreneurs), the government controls every aspect of life- from religion to meal time, you are told which occupation you will have at the moment you are born, etc. Am I getting close?
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 7:48 am

Delta, hee hee hee. Don't forget about the Emerald Palace, flying monkeys and flowers that put you to sleep.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Joona
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 8:26 am

Delta, don't forget that the govt decides about your sex life Big grin

Joona
1740 days idle. Beat that.
 
Joona
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 8:28 am

Forgot to add that is the rule I've never obeyed, and will never obey. I don't care if it's illegal to have sex with someone under 16, they can't decide about my sex life!! Not now, never will!

Joona
1740 days idle. Beat that.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 8:30 am

Just think, about 70% of "rich" people earn their money. the other 30% steal it or just hang around rich people and somehow get money without doing anything at all.

EGGD
 
lax2000
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 9:12 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 9:05 am

Your far off Mr. RNOmd-80.

My Ideal nation would have the health and welfare benefits of Sweden, the drug leniency of the Netherlands, The work hours and overall lifestyle of Spain and France. The multi lingual and ethnic make up of NYC and L.A.

Abortion, Gay Marriage and Pot are legal in all states.

That's all for now...Rome wasn't built in a day.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Joona
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 2:02 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 9:22 am

Rome wasn't built in a day

How do you know? Were you there to prove it?  Big thumbs up

Joona
1740 days idle. Beat that.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 10:12 am

>>Legal age for alcohol purchase and consumption lowered to age 18. However a DUI conviction is punishable up to and including lifetime incarceration.<<

Watch your taxes soar to cover the cost of prison for all of these offenders.


>>No signage, advertising, road signs, or Government forms will be permitted to be printed in any language other than English.<<

Wouldn't you want English signs in foreign countries? Say you had to connect in CDG, or NRT, wouldn't you want some English help?


More and more programs should be privatized, even schools. Business aspects will take over and the schools will compete with each other to educate you. Amtrak should be a private business.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 10:56 am

My ideal country would be something akin to the following: (could it be more different?)

Taxes
In much the same way as Switzerland is at the moment, the tax rates would be somewhere around 33% as the top rate of tax, with a 15% rate as the introductory rate.

Languages
Unlike some, I believe that diversity can do nothing but help in the long run. To this end, (in much the same way as in Canada – although using a different language) people are encouraged to speak both Spanish and English – and Spanish is a requirement in High School from age eight. (Kids have been proven to learn new languages much better; the earlier you start teaching them) Things are required to be written in dual languages – although not in magazines and on tins of food as in Canada. However, for use in politics and other things, no other language may be used. Immigration will be very simple; if you meet the requirements and can show a passion to live in the country, then you are welcome. It is not the fault of somewhere as to where they are born, and they should be allowed to live wherever they choose. It is required to have semi-fluency in either Spanish and/or English, but you do not have to speak either of those in your home if you do not wish to.

Healthcare
I don’t care if it is an idea reminiscent of Socialism, but I think that state-assisted healthcare is a brilliant idea. It may be ANYTHING but profitable – but social responsibility dictates that there be some caring for others. And besides, when you get sick – you don’t have to pay up the whazoo for a simple check-up.

Abortion
Although personally I abhor abortion (who doesn’t?) it cannot be banned – as if this is the case, it would just go underground and make it quite horrific for those who required one. However – a judge must certify beforehand that the abortion should take place. There will be no spontaneous on-the-spot decisions. However, all court sessions will take place within one week of the request being put in by the person who wishes to have the abortion.

Communications
As many companies from all nations (eg. Deutsche Telecom, AT&T, BT, MCI) are welcome to compete on an equal footing in the country in the Communications market. As much competition as possible on the GSM 900, 1800 and 1900MHz cellphone system would be welcomed from anyone who was interested in giving it. No other cellphone standard (CDMA, TMDA or AMPS) will be in place. GSM-400 is an option for the future.
No prescription drugs may be advertised on television – and an independent commission decides what can be shown on TV. A watershed of 21:00 would be imposed allowing no explicit words or any explicit content to be shown before 9pm.

Incarceration and Capital Punishment
There will be no state-sanctioned Capital Punishment. Period. The circle of hate has to stop somewhere, and for the state to indeed perpetuate the ‘revenge’ motive of the death penalty is somewhat hypocritical and quite unnecessary in my mind. Rehabilitation will be the order of the day while incarcerated – and those that refuse or appear unaffected by all attempts shall be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, depending on the situation.

Firearms
Firearms are permitted, including handguns. However, two-week waiting periods are required for all firearm purchases. Persons with criminal records found in possession of firearms will be subject to multiple fines and incarceration for a period of time relating to the degree of offense and the specific situation.

Racism and Discrimination
Racism and discrimination will be dealt with in an extremely harsh way – but on a case-by-case basis. Free market economics and business practices allow people to hire who they want, when they want. However, if racism can be proven, (through a disinterested judge) then severe action will be taken. However, all businesses must be represented in both Spanish and English.

Equality
EVERYONE is equal, regardless of any personal trait. Anyone caught interfering with a person’s equality (bribery, old-boys-club membership etc) will be heavily disciplined. However, no same-sex marriages between men will be allowed. This is not to say that equality does not extend to same-sex couples; just to say that the country (namely me) doesn’t agree with it.

Politics, Social Security & Economics
A two-party system, consisting of a right-wing party, somewhere in between the Republicans and Democrats, and a left-wing party akin to the Democrats, if not slightly to the right. An elected party with a ruling leader will be elected who, by default, becomes President, (in much the same way as the British Prime Minister gets elected). An entirely free-market economy would be in place, trading more than 70% with the US (of course.) However, necessary utilities (Natural Gas, Electricity and Water) will be state-provided. Social security would only be available after court hearings verifying whether, indeed, the person was eligible. Unless disabled, the maximum limit for length on social security is thirty days. Defrauding the Social Security Service will result in an immediate fine of 1000% of the amount stolen and five years in jail.

Drugs, Alcohol, Smoking & Driving
A hard line will be taken on drug offenders and under-age drinkers. The drinking age will be 18, along with the driving age. Speed limits of 65 on rural two-way roads and 80 on freeways would be imposed. No drug currently illegal in the US will be legal. (IE all drugs other than classified as FDA approved will not be permitted). All persons found in possession of drugs are subject, again, to heavy fines and imprisonment.

Religion
Everybody would be required to take either Comparative Religion or Religious Education classes in school, and schools would be allowed to have as much religion as they wish. However, parents are free to choose what school to send their kids to, based on (among other things) the religious background of the school. The Government, when in matters of other religions, shall have total religious neutrality. No preference is to be given just because a certain group is Jewish, Muslim, Catholic, Baptist, or of any other denomination.

It may be socialistic – it doesn’t mean to be, in any way – but if that is how it sounds, then so be it.
Either way, ideally it would be as far away from Europe (except Spain and the UK) as possible and as close to the US (on a friendship level) as possible.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
kolobokman
Posts: 1112
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:32 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 11:28 am

I see Matt D escaping from his IDEAL COUNTRY US (ha!) in a week, and trying to enter Peru(or something) illigaly...

But they have different laws in Peru now...DNA collection, incapacitation, or death from the Border Patrol and they don't speak english.

artiom
I can neither confirm, nor deny above post
 
G Dubya
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 1:10 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 11:37 am

Pot...legal in all states.

Cool...I'm there dude!

 Smokin cool  Smokin cool  Smokin cool
 
Carioca Canuck
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:03 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 11:38 am

Mine is kinda what MattD offered with a few changes.......but first I would have to state that it must be in a humid, 35+ C degrees climate year round...with praias and bundas.......

 Smile
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 12:56 pm

I'm sure many of you probably have an idea of my ideal nation. Before I describe it in detail, I'll say that my ideal nation is one under the United States Constitution... the one that was written in the 18th century, not the one that is distorted today. If I had been around back then and been influential, I would rather have had things stated more clearly so that people could not twist it to fit their own agenda. So, my ideal nation would be the US, but changed in the following ways.

My ideal nation would be based upon these priniciples:

• That each individual is endowed by his Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are the rights to Life, Liberty, Property and the Pursuit of the individual’s personal interest;

• That the freedom to own, use, exchange, control, protect, and freely dispose of Property is a natural, necessary and inseparable extension of the individual’s unalienable rights;

• That the legitimate function of government is to secure these rights through the preservation of domestic tranquility, the maintenance of a strong national defense, and the promotion of equal justice for all;

• That history makes clear that left unchecked, it is the nature of government to usurp the liberty of its citizens and eventually become a major violator of the people’s rights; and

• That, therefore, it is essential to bind government with the chains of the Constitution and carefully divide and jealously limit government powers to those assigned by the consent of the governed.

Life
The pre-born child, whose life begins at fertilization, is a human being created in God’s image. The first duty of the law is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood. It is, therefore, the duty of all civil governments to secure and to safeguard the lives of the pre-born. Under no circumstances may the federal government fund or otherwise support any state or local government or any organization or entity, foreign or domestic, which advocates, encourages or participates in the practice of abortion.

Local Government
The closer civil government is to the people, the more responsible, responsive, and accountable it is likely to be. The Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution makes clear that the federal government has only those powers which are explicitly delegated to it. All other powers are reserved to the states and to the people. This nation must be faithful to this Constitutional requirement and to work methodically to restore to the states and to the people their rightful control over legislative, judicial, executive, and regulatory functions which are not Constitutionally delegated to the federal government.

Capital Punishment
Capital punishment would be required in ALL first-degree murder convictions without exception. It would also be instituted in all violent gun crimes.

Defense
More funding to the Department of Defense to add troops and equipment and restore honor to the armed forces. No troops under foreign control (NATO, UN), no troops in foreign matters (Balkans) except in situations of vital interest to the United States (Israel, Iraq, etc). Our troops would instead be placed on our borders... militarize the Mexican border and add some military units to the Canadian border to deal with drug smuggling and terrorist activity.

Education
Absolutely NO Federal involvment in education. The Department of Education would be abolished. Public education would be up to the respective States. Their teacher certification, educational curricula, textbook selection, learning standards, comprehensive sex education, psychological and psychiatric research testing programs, and personnel all comes from the State level. So that no parents need defy the law by refusing to send their children to schools of which they disapprove, compulsory attendance laws should be repealed.

Election Reform
The 17th Amendment would be abolished. Senators would be elected in the way they were originally intended under the Constitution's system of checks and balances. The legislatures of the States would appoint two Senators.

Energy
More dependance on domestic energy sources. Rogue states that control a large chunk of these sources can effectively shut down our nation. Drill ANWAR, drill Wyoming... For the energy we cannot get from within our borders, we'll take our business to friendlier nations.

Environment
Again, absolutely NO Federal involvement in environmental issues. Repeal of federal wetlands legislation and the federal Endangered Species Act. Moreover, oppose any attempt to designate private or public property as United Nations World Heritage sites or Biosphere reserves. Call for an end to United States participation in UN programs such as UNESCO, Man and the Biosphere, and the UN Council on Sustainable Development. Oppose environmental treaties and conventions such as the Biodiversity Treaty, the Convention on Climate Control, and Agenda 21, which destroy our sovereignty and right to private property. Restore any environmental power to the States.

Gun Control
The right to bear arms is inherent in the right of self defense, defense of the family, and defense against tyranny, conferred on the individual and the community by our Creator to safeguard life, liberty, and property, as well as to help preserve the independence of the nation. The right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the Constitution; it may not properly be infringed upon or denied. Absolutely NO Federal gun control legislation. ANY responsible, law-abiding citizen can have a gun. Encourage responsible home ownership of firearms.

Social Programs
No socialistic national health care system. No socialistic welfare systems. No socialistic social security programs. No Federal involvement whatsoever in social programs.

Taxes
Abolish 16th Amendment. No Federal income tax. Return the system to how it was intended- excises, duties, etc. Maybe a LOW sales tax.

Minimum Wage
Abolishment of Federal minimum wage. Allow for a free market.

In summary... EXTREMELY LOW Federal involvement in government. Return the power to the States as it was intended. LOW taxes (good thing) means WEAK Federal government (good thing).


 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:39 pm

My ideal nation would be an island in the middle of the Pacific to control immigration.

Immigration policies:
Immigration would be open with the requisite of, in addition to a standard citizenship exam, an english proficiency exam to ensure that they are capable of being productive citizens, not just dead weight.

Drugs and alcohol policies:
Narcotics policies will be very strict. There will be none! Violators will be promptly shipped to the nation's prison island for service in the prison's maintenance corps for 6 months, no excuses, no questions.
There is no legal limit on alcohol consumption, however before the age of 16, a drinker must be in the presence of an adult. This is an honour law.

Education:
The education system will be a nationally standardised system and will be established with consultation from Japan. A required course in the universities will be business.

Tax policy:
There is no business tax to speak of, but industrial taxation will be directly proportionate to the size of the corporation and the amount of pollution and waste they produce. I have a system mapped out, but it is rather elaborate to describe here.

Abortion:
What people choose to do with their health is their own issue...which is why they will be forced to go to the US or other countries to get an abortion. The government will not fund hospitals and clinics that give abortions on the islands and those in operation will be shut down doctors and administrators running them will be imprisoned for 1 year with their medical license revoked, never to be regained. I should also state that abortion ships run by activists, if they do not turn around as immediately ordered, will be fired upon and disabled by our navy and confiscated when they enter the when they enter national waters. Those aboard will then be arrested and held until the nation of their origin has them transported home at the expense of their home nation.

Firearm policy:
Ownership for all firearms is legal, however those who wish to own firearms must enlist i na citizen's militia, a reserve, in the case of invasion or a loss of military resources overseas. As a result, all men and women between the age of 21 and 31 will be required to enlist and their yearly physicals will determine their remainder in the service. In normal circumstances, they will be required to be enlisted for only three years. Those who do not meet the standards, or have completed their tenure of service will be dropped from the militia, but will be able to keep their firearm to do with as they please (except violate the law). It is extremely unlikely that the militia will be needed. It is merely a test of dedication to their country.

Politics:
Any organisation who wants to form a party are allowed to do so, however a party who wishes for the certain secession of an island will not be permitted under the penalty of treason. The system will be much like that of the US and other nations.

Discrimination:
Organisations, unless they are religious sects, and businesses will not be permitted to discriminate on the grounds of race, creed, religion, disability or prior nationality. Those who do not comply will have their licenses revoked for one year, and continued operation without a license will result in the incarceration for the leader of the organisation for 6 months.

Healthcare:
Paying for healthcare will not be an issue for any of our citizens. Those who drop out of high school will be placed in minimum wage jobs within the state, driving mass transit railway lines, busses, collecting trash, cleaning and maintaining state property, etc. The lower class will be made productive citizens, whether they like it or not.

Welfare:
There is none. If you get them on it, they'll never get off of it.

That's my ideal nation.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
AerLingus
Posts: 2280
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 9:22 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:42 pm

I made a mistake in outlining my discrimination policy. Businesses are NOT exempt from the policy.

Income tax will be nominal and the equivalent to the pre-Bush tax bracket percentages.
Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
 
DELL_dude
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 2:58 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 3:14 pm

The kind of country that our founding fathers envisioned!

LIVE FREE OR DIE !


DELL_dude !
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 13, 2001 6:50 pm

my ideal country is a nation which learns lessons from the past, yet looks towards the future.
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Guest

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 12:26 am


1. Politics is a low-key activity, rarely making headlines. Elected bodies function along the lines of a board of directors, meeting infrequently and briefly, leaving the day-to-day running of the country to professional managers hired on contract and paid bonuses for excellent performance. (Personally, I'd much sooner have my country run by the likes of Bob Crandall or Gordon Bethune than some charming popularity-contest winner.)

2. The nation itself is never raised on a pedestal or treated as sacred or holy. It is an organisational unit, essentially a condominium writ large, and that's it. As long as you pay your fees for the common elements and abide by ground rules so as to not make life worse for the neighbours, you've done your bit. If you're an outsider who wants to buy in, fine. If you're not satisfied and want to live elsewhere, that's fine too. It's your decision to make.

3. The people are friendly and laid back, believing that until there's evidence to the contrary, you only get one turn at life, so you might as well enjoy it. Lunches are customarily at least an hour long and preferably not at your desk. Quality of life is treated as something more than an afterthought or a mere measurement of the percentage of homes with cable TV and automatic dishwashers.
 
lax2000
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 9:12 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 5:50 am

One more thing,
In my country teachers will make as much as doctors, lawyers and uh, airline pilots...and schools will have no more than 15 kids a class. I think this will help solve the problem of bad public schooling, which might help solve a lot of our current counties problems such as poverty and hard drug abuse. Kids might actually want to be teachers when they grow up and this would make becoming a teacher very competitive and eventually only the best will teach, thus making the public school system as good as private schools. Of course these salaries would be paid for through your tax money..but taxes wouldn't be raised because we would be saving so much money NOT fighting the war on drugs.  Wow!
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:18 am

Australian Beaches
American Lakes
Irish Countrysides
American Transportation
Canadian Wilderness
American Arcitecture
Mexican Deserts
American Military
Italian Food
American Sports
Japanese Education
American Communications
Antartica Crime
American Hospitals

Did I miss anything?
"Shaddap you!"
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:28 am

And another pointless thread.

Anyway: My (pointless) contribution:

Ideal State - Ikarusland:

1 male inhabitant (me)
possibly a few hundred good looking female inhabitants to entertain the president of Ikarusland
1 totalitarian president (also me)
lots of space
lots of nature
an airport
Barbadoslike climate
some mountains (that do not erupt into flames on a regular basis)
and an internet connection that automatically filters away right-wing crappy posts.

Death penalty for illegal immigrants? Teachers being allowed to infiltrate the minds of innocent children with that most harmful and evil of drugs generally known as religion? I start to get the feeling that you really do not want to be taken serious by anyone except the Mattologists who pray to their glorious e-idol every day.

Regards

Ikarus
 
vafi88
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:32 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:31 am

Matt, I really think that you have a communist-thinking mind. sorry

My perfect country is where there is no racism,sexism oor any discrimination.

I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
 
almbluzman
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:41 am

death for trying to enter the u.s. illegally? that's already happening...at least you've got one part of your country coming true for you, matt.

almbluzman
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 7:42 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:54 am

Vafi88- no, MattD has the mind opposite of a communist. Commies are in favor of government control of every aspect of life and tax the hell out of people- Matt wants more freedoms, local controlled government, and less taxes.
 
Ikarus
Posts: 3391
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 10:18 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 7:14 am

"MattD has the mind opposite of a communist. Commies are in favor of government control of every aspect of life and tax the hell out of people- Matt wants more freedoms, local controlled government, and less taxes. "

Wrong. Communism is the belief that everyone is equal, and hence all resources should be distributed equally. It is complete BS because everyone is unique, and the only way to determine ones share of the resources should be by performance and performance alone.

(Which is why I tend to believe that "well-connected" people do not deserve their luck, or that being fortunate enough to be born in a rich country does not entitle one to a better life than the unfortunate fellow born in Congo, for example. Which is why I find the idea of "illegal immigration" ridiculous. In a fair world, migration would not be hindered by borders. I tend to believe that hording ones wealth and trying to actively prevent others from achieving the same is a disgrace, as is the concept of nationally protected economies in general. Put it like this: Free market economy = prices of any good (including labour) are set by supply and demand, supply and demand are not hindered by governments (i.e. supply of cheap labour is not sent away at the borders) and hence if this world was ideal, everyone would compete with an equal starting position against everyone else in the labour market - but all that is just pointless waffle, as I have to admit that I'd be the last one to actually WANT the price of labour to be determined by market forces alone (which would severely reduce the fat&rich living standards we currently enjoy in Europe) - I merely believe that the system, as it is, is not morally right - but the morally right system is not feasibly workable. Nevertheless, I generally have nothing against illegal immigrants....)

Anyway: MattD is no Communist. The correct term for someone who wishes to enforce his own culture upon others by force, who has the desire to shut his country towards tourism and multiculturalism, enforce his own thoughts by violence and allow the educational system to actively influence children's opinions would be "fascist".

It's like the Russians forcing all of their satellite states to teach children obligatory Russian language lessons (which they did), banning religion and replacing it with propaganda for the party (MattD intends to do the opposite, I presume: Ban liberal teachers but selectively hire those who are religious and conservative, and permitting them to influence kids), and shooting anyone who tried to get OUT of their countries (once again, MattD intends to do the opposite)....

So what is the opposite of a Communist fascist? I suppose a conservative fascist.

I feel no sympathy for either of them.

Regards

Ikarus

PS: Sorry for the confusing post. It's rather late in the evening right now....
 
Guest

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 10:00 pm

Matty,

With support of the DeltaRNO (whatever) you have proven your appeal to the masses.

Idealism is an OK way to purport your racist and sexist views, however - you do not supply just enough to become a benevolent dictatorship.

LOL

You make me laugh. The society you dictate would be full of crime, hate and discrimination.

Good luck with your dream.

The only thing I can think of is that when I'm next in the USA, we'll meet and fall in love. It will be the perfect match.

I'm not a size queen so you don't have to worry about that Matty, and not competition from Deltadog, he's too young.

Lots of love,

mb

**Absolutely Ansett**

 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:42 pm

Matt's post had no reference to race whatsoever. In fact some of his views are widely supported by minorities. Yet you guys are calling Matt hateful, bigoted and a racist, etc. Obviously, you have no argument and are resorting to your imfamous left-wing last resort name-calling. Geez, if you don't have an argument, don't post anything.

"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 14, 2001 11:59 pm

"Obviously, you have no argument and are resorting to your imfamous left-wing last resort name-calling. "

You mean much in the same way the right-wing people call the left-wingers communists all the time, for no good reason?

Anyway, if Matt wants to live in that world, fine by me. There's a place which is kinda similar to what he described. It's called HELL.

Greetings Big grin
 
Guest

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:31 am

Please explain this to me. Please please.

All you religious Christian nuts embrace the following: Why?

Intolerance. What you say? Prohibiting people to embrace their national language. Thats INTOLERANT. Not what Jesus tought or loved.

Cruel repressive punnishment. Killing people who seek opportunity in the United States???? Thats love?? Thats what Jesus wanted? BULLSHIT.

No help for those who can't help themselves. Abolish medicaid, abolish headstart, etc.. What is that?? Not everyone has had the opportunity or wealth or genius of you Matt and DeltaRNOmd-80. Some people need assistance in surviving surprise surpirse. And abolishing a safety net for these individuals and turning otu back on them is WRONG. No two ways about it. Its cruel, elitist and not loving. You say, fine leave it to charities and individuals. Well, there is no precedent for wide-scale charitable help and individual assistance for the lowest rungs of society and our government has to and you as a citizen has to bite the bullet and pay those extra taxes to help the unfortunate. Its the right thing to do damnit. If you don't, then nobody will. Not Jerry Fallwell, trust me.

Christianity tought fairness love, and tolerance. Whats it to you then if two men or two women love each other and want to get married. Might be gross/disgusting/immoral etc... but its tolerance and that above all else is what the world should be about. Who are you Matt D to tell two people who love each other they can't marry. Jesus would be mad at you. haha

I'm not against your "All corporations, businesses, government agencies,and groups are free to determine who thry hire, except...." thing EXCEPT: We've tried this. Before JFK and our civil rights laws, people could hire and exempt whoever the hell they wanted. What did it produce? Look at IBM in the 1950s. ALL WHITE PEOPLE. We as Americans werent perfect we were racist and afraid so we stayed away from blacks and denied them opportunities simply because of the color of their skin. I am not convinced, nor shoud anyone be, that we have matured from that point and untill our society can deomonstrate that pure and evil racism has dissapeared, equal hiring practices must be held up and protected. We simply aren't mature enough for your ideal law in this regard.

You speak about less government control etc... YET adulturey is illegal as well as abortion. Thats government intervention. If I want to marry Sarah but have sex with Marry, I may be a scumbag but who is the government to stop me. Its MY goddman life.

Agree with lowering drinking laws. Jesus drank! However life imprisonment is a bit harsh if you make one mistake one night. ??

"....Government will take no part in any religious dispute...."

SUper duper! However, you then say if a teacher puts 10 Commandments on wall of public school, that prompts religious dispute IMMEDIATELY. And someone comes out unhappy. Is that what you want Matt D? Unhappy people. Why should faithful believer get preference over unfaithful nonbeliever? Your making people unhappy. Let religious person hang 10 commandments at home. If 10 commandments is hung up, whats next? Reasons why God deosn't exist? tahts fair in your equitable world ehh

My country would have very few laws. No pain damage violence to other people, open immigration, promotion of one language, but no law requiring it. No religion mixed with public education. No harsh unusual criminal punishments. Tolerance for everything, equity for all.

Tolerequ <- country's name.

derived from TOLERANCE and EQUITY

PS: "Smoke weed everyday"  Smile haha
 
iflycoach
Posts: 973
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 1:37 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:42 am

So how are the people like my Grandmother supposed to live if they are to old to go to work every day but still pay the bills??? Although I do agree with the criminal thing. I am very thankful that I do not live in Matt D's United States of Segregation!
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:18 am

Ok, the time has come for me to propose my platform.

Life
Abortion is legal, free and confidential for women of all ages. Healthcare is free. Drug and alcohol abusers are put on perscription. A woman is allowed up to 3 years paid maternal leave - just like it used to be in the USSR back in the day.

Capital Punishment
Capital punishment would be required in only the most extreme cases.

Racism and Discrimination
Racism and discrimination will be dealt with in an extremely harsh way – but on a case-by-case basis.

Languages
Everyone will be encouraged to learn English, however, it won't be made into an official language, like in Latvia, where you can get fined for speaking Russian on the street.

Equality
EVERYONE is equal, regardless of any personal trait.

Marriage
Allow same sex marriage and polygamy as long as everyone in the union is happy with it. Give unmarried couples some benefits of the married couples, promote birth control and sex education in school from very early age.

Defense
Cut down spending on military - it's way too much. Money would be better spent elsewhere.

Education
Free education for life, no religion in schools, no school vouchers.

Election Reform
Campaign finance reform and possibly abolition of electorate college.

Energy
Exploration of alternative fuels and energy sources - we can use our technology to accomplish that. The only reason it's not done yet is because we have rich thugs in the government who only care about putting money in their own pockets.

Environment
Protecting and cleaning up of the environment should be one of the top priorities.

Gun Control
Guns should be allowed, but it will be very difficult to obtain a gun. Background checks, and gunlocks will be implemented.

Social Programs
Free healthcare, education, and welfare for those who need it. Help to newly arrived immigrants.

Immigration
Make immigration process less painless - but deal appropriately with illegal immigrants.

Taxes
Slowly implement line-item taxation. Religious organizations will be prohibited from involvement in politics or be taxed.

Minimum Wage
Introduce minimum living wage for everybody.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: An-225

Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:25 am

Sounds like the 'good ol' USSR to me....

Downright scary.
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:28 am

If you never lived in the USSR, you shouldn't talk shit about it. I have lived there, and I realize now that some things were not that bad about it.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:44 am

Now it's time to discuss Matt's platform.

>>>Everybody would be required to speak a common language-namely English. Communication is essential, and pockets of people all speaking their own native tongues is divisive, and creates more problems than it solves vis-a-vis education, cultural tolerance, etc.<<<

Why don't you move to Latvia - they fine people for speaking language other than Latvian. The world and even the United States is too diverse to make everyone speak a common language. You were probably one of those people who told hispanic dudes in class "Speak English, you're in America now." I've heard that all before. When I came here, I did not speak a word of English, and I did not ask people in JFK airport to speak Russian, just because I don't understand English.

>>>English comprehension on a measurable 8th grade or higher level is mandatory for legal admission into the States. If you want to speak your native tongue among your family, fine. But anywhere else, your language is the official one: English.<<<

Again, move to f***in Latvia. Anywhere else meaning on the streets? What if I want to speak my Russian language on the street? Will I get fined for not doing that?

>>>Any person or persons attmpting to illegally enter the United States is subject to DNA collection, incapacitation, or death from the Border Patrol. Persons aiding and abetting in illegally bringing persons into the United States are subject to lifetime imprisonment and/or Capital Punishment.<<<

Sounds Nazi. US should help other nations to get out of their poverty. That way immigration will be curbed by itself.

>>>Prisoners shall perform necessary public service such as litter collection, graffitti cleanup, bridge repair, etc so as to earn a return on the costs of their incarceration.<<<

Hmm, this is something I can agree on.

>>>No signage, advertising, road signs, or Government forms will be permitted to be printed in any language other than English.<<<

Pretty close-minded. If you go to another country, you'll find signs in English everywhere. Except maybe Latvia  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

>>>If you are going to emmigrate here, you are no longer a person of whatever land you came from, be it Mexico, France, Canada, China, Korea, or Jupiter. There will be NO ethnic categorizing. Either you are an American, or you are not. If you want to be Peruvian, fine. Then you belong in Peru.<<<

That sounds like "you're either Aryan or a lower race." I will always be Russian, even when I get my citizenship to vote against that redneck Supreme Court put into the office. This comment is nothing but racist.

>>>The loser in any lawsuit will be required to pay the winners legal costs as well as their own. Failure to do so will result in seizure of assets and/or imprisonment commensurate with the length of the trial and what the legal bills final total is.<<<

Sounds ok except seizing of property. That sounds like Stalin's days - people were put in prison or shot and their property was seized.

>>>Literary tests mandatory for voting. If you do not posess basic cognitive skills, and have the requisite skills for decision making and following directions, you have no business participating in the leadership/initiative process.<<<

Literary tests should be mandatory for people who are running for President too.

>>>If a spouse is found guilty of infidelity/adultery in any established marriage, that spouse automatically loses 100% of their assetts regardless of when obtained to the other spouse.<<<

Family problems are just that - family problems, and government should not get involved.

>>>Abortion is only legal is medically verifiable instances where the fetus and/or mothers life is clearly in jeopardy if the pregnancy is allowed to proceed. Cases involving rape and incest will be handled on a case-by-case basis, and will require provable evidence.<<<

Abortion will happen anyway, whether you want it or not.

>>>The complete and total abolition of Social Security, Welfare, HUD, WIC, Medicare, and any and all other taxpayer funded Public Benefits, with the exception of Unemploymnt Insurance. No exceptions. The phaseout of Social Security will occur over a 10 year period. the amount that you will pay (and be eligible for in benefits) will be determined by your age and how much you have paid into it. If on January 1, 2001, you were 25 years of age, or younger, you will be exempted from paying any further SS taxes. You also will not be eligible for ny benefits upon your retirement. No refunds will be given so as to ensure that current obligations are paid. No person shall be allowed into the United States without proof of literacy and self sufficiency.
No US citizen will be eligible for any kind<<<

Another republican elitist bunch of bullshit. You'd rather spend that money on religion and military.

>>>Marriage (and all marriage related benefits-from tax breaks to health benefits) is recognized by the State as between a man and a woman only.<<<

Abolish marriage, it's unnecessary.

>>>All corporations, businesses, government agencies,and groups are free to determine who thry hire, except, and who they do not at their sole discretion, and predetermined qualifications. There is no forced inclusion or Affirmative Action. If a group of Blacks want to start a "Black Only" business, they are free to do so without reprimand. Same goes for any other segment of society. If the Boy Scouts want to exclude Gays from their ranks, they are free to do so without fear of retribution.<<<

Sounds very bigoted, Matt. I think you should think about your values for a moment.

>>>Persons determined to be 51% or more at fault for any motor vehicle collision shall lose their license for 30 days and pay fines to the State in amounts to be determined. These fines double with each violation, until the 4th incident, at which time the offender will lose their license for life. If they are caught driving without a license, that is automatically 5 years jail time. <<<

That I can kinda agree with. But public transportation is shitty in this country.

>>>All drivers must pass not only written and visual tests, but also hearing and reflex tests as well. Those that cannot pass will not be issued a license.<<<

That I can agree with.

>>>Legal age for alcohol purchase and consumption lowered to age 18. However a DUI conviction is punishable up to and including lifetime incarceration.<<<

I think that's a bit too harsh, but I do agree with lowering the drinking age.

>>>Complete freedom of religion or freedom from religion as you desire. Government will take no part in any religious dispute. If a judge or teacher hangs The 10 Commandments on their wall, that is their right. If you are offended by it, you may attend a different school. No protests ordering their removal will be honored.<<<

Two statements here contradict themselves. Freedom of/from religion means that nobody can push any religion on you, and putting 10 commandments will do just that.

>>>Establish different curriculums in school that pertain to different religious persuasions, or a lack thereof. All will be equal in terms of requisite graduation. As an example, schools will be free to teach any subject from any religious, or atheist perspective. Students (or parents) will be free to choose whichever program they desire. An "A" earned in athesistic secular Biology will be equal to an "A" earned from a Christian (or any other religious) perspective.<<<

Oh, how about teaching people that earth is flat? It sure would be nice to have some astronomers who think that earth is flat...

Wake up and look around, Matt...



Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:46 am

By the way, introduce minimum living wage for everybody means that minimum wage would be actually the wage you can live on - try having an apartment and a family on 5.15 an hour and then you'll understand what I am talking about.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 9:30 am

AN-225 - you may have come from the 'utopian' USSR - but please remember two things;

1) You are infinately more closed-minded than Matt D. Everything you appear to stand for is quite the insane approach. For example - Abolishing marriage. WHAT ARE YOU ON?

2) The USSR may have been all well and good - except for one thing - IT COLLAPSED.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
flight152
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:11 am

An-225--
"Abolish marriage, it's unnecessary. "
And this is supposed to describe "your ideal nation", you could never do this to make a successful nation. Marage is necessary, just because you don't think you will get married doesn't mean all the people in a country wont. THAT is being closed minded.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:54 am

Matt D: If you are going to emmigrate here, you are no longer a person of whatever land you came from, be it Mexico, France, Canada, China, Korea, or Jupiter. There will be NO ethnic categorizing. Either you are an American, or you are not. If you want to be Peruvian, fine. Then you belong in Peru.

An-225: That sounds like "you're either Aryan or a lower race." I will always be Russian, even when I get my citizenship to vote against that redneck Supreme Court put into the office. This comment is nothing but racist.

An-225, you're confusing nationality with race. Big difference. (I hate when people do that  Pissed)
"Shaddap you!"
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:29 pm

I can't resist
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:33 pm

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't abolish marriage in my nation.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
AC320
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:29 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:51 pm

the only true, ideal nation can be described by 6 easy letters:

C-A-N-A-D-A  Big thumbs up

Sorry, just couldn't resist
fuddle duddle
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Tue Jun 19, 2001 1:02 pm

I think Holland might be an ideal nation.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy It's liberal heaven.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
flight152
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:59 am

An-225- Good idea!
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 20, 2001 1:24 am

My ideal country is very much like the country i live in now: Switzerland.

A small but very diverse country. With three different ethinicities that live together without any big problem. German, French and Italian are the official languages. All government forms and road signs are in all three languages.
The legal age for alcohol& pot would be 16. The lifestyle would be very casual.
Public schools do their classes in two langauges. 1) the local language 2) another national language. This means 50% percent of the classes would be in your mother tongue. That would mean that everyone is bi-lingual and enhance communication.

Education would be completely free and Healthcare insurance would be mandatory.


So thats it. There is a country where all this is reality: Switzerland!!

Tom
Lax2000: Pot is legal in switzerland!!
 
Guest

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 20, 2001 2:08 am

The best true nation can be described in just three letters:

U-S-A


B757300,

I couldn't resist either:  Smile

 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:03 am

My ideal country is one that returns Matt D at the border to his point of origin.............very quickly!

As for the ideal nation..........well, it's the only one with 'Great' in the title......
 
Guest

RE: Describe Your Ideal Nation

Thu Jun 21, 2001 10:01 am

United States!

We are a God fearing capitalist nation.  Big thumbs up

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