AgnusBymaster
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How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 1:52 am

After spending some time in Europe this summer during the peak of all the treaty negotiations, I know just how much hatred their is spilling over towards the US and it's current administration. People abroad just view the Bush administration as a joke, especially with all his talk about a missile defense system. I'm not trying to justify this, but there's no doubt their's a lot of anti-US sentiment out there.

Someone (or some group) out there is definitely trying to show us something. And I think they succeeded, in a most horrible way. The fact that four airplanes can be hijacked on the same day shows us how our national security system has many significant shortcomings that have nothing to do with nuclear weapons etc. etc... The US constantly boast about all this fancy technology when it has such basic shortcomings.
 
BA
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 2:10 am

The reason why many countires hate us is because of our Foreign Policy.

Regards.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Klaus
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AgnusBymaster

Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:49 am

AgnusBymaster: After spending some time in Europe this summer during the peak of all the treaty negotiations, I know just how much hatred their is spilling over towards the US and it's current administration. People abroad just view the Bush administration as a joke,

Be assured that that´s not so.

For all the political and cultural bickering going on between countries, there is hardly any hatred against the US in Europe. There is some annoyance for sure; There are differences on the topics; But everybody knows that this does in no way question the fact that we´re together in almost all questions that are really important.

On this day, there is no place for our differences which are real, but miniscule by comparison - we´re all with you.

The attackers find all the civilized world against them - united.
 
NUAir
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 4:09 am

I don't agree with Americas foreign policy and I definently don't agree with Bush but the way that "this"terrorist group has acted demands imediate response against them and not a population at large. I fear that this attack will only lead to an even worse future for the Palistinians (If Ben Ladin is responsible). It is important for the US and allies to understand that while we have been hit with several terrorist attacks from one group that doesn't represent the Palistinian population at large that Palistinians have been attacked by almost all world powers via Israel for centuries. Looking at the news and other chat rooms this is guarunteed to get out of hand.

My heart goes out to all the people who suffered in NY, DC and PE and also to those in Kenya and Tanzania who suffered before. I hope that this will influence Bush and others to take a more serious role in the happenings in the world and realize that they do impact the lives of everyone. We live in a very close world and the US needs to understand there role.

"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 4:42 am

first identify the group of terrorists that did the deed....at the moment all it seems like is that people just want to bomb the middle east without knowing who to blame, that is what the terrorists want...for the US to blame the first group that comes into mind and bomb them, then they bomb back....that is how World Wars start
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:10 am

And the Arabs DARE to cheer the attack. How much more idiotic can they be?
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:11 am

And also, I have to say that this was an attack against the civilized world and I hope that the perpetrators of it are caught and dealt with appropriately.
 
jwenting
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 5:14 am

the "hatred" in Europe is mostly envy with a good dose of communist and islamic fundamentalist propaganda.
Most people look up to the US in private only to spit at them in public because it is the politically correct thing to do.
I wish I were flying
 
Klaus
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Jwenting

Wed Sep 12, 2001 7:28 am

Jwenting: the "hatred" in Europe is mostly envy with a good dose of communist and islamic fundamentalist propaganda. Most people look up to the US in private only to spit at them in public because it is the politically correct thing to do.

Even after 38 years, I´ve yet to meet my first fellow european who fits at least one of your descriptions! You should change your environment, quickly!

I´m very sorry for you.
 
AgnusBymaster
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 7:36 am

I think you guys are focusing on Europe too much. I was merely using Europe to exemplify a world-wide trend. I do not feel Europeans are the most "anti-American," and do not seek to make any stereotypes of that matter.

My main point was that the rest of the world views the current US administration and their foreign policy as a joke.
 
RealHigh
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:06 am

Jwenting:
>the "hatred" in Europe is mostly envy with a good dose of communist and islamic fundamentalist propaganda.

You sound more and more like a Hitler in the making everytime you open your mouth.
 
Klaus
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AgnusBymaster, RealHigh

Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:33 am

AgnusBymaster: My main point was that the rest of the world views the current US administration and their foreign policy as a joke.

Not a lot more than many americans. But that´s a tiny, little concern compared to what´s going on right now. Don´t worry, after all, we´re all family.

RealHigh: You sound more and more like a Hitler in the making everytime you open your mouth.

Please stop. You´re at least as much out of whack right now.

Please let´s not tear each others heads off at this time of tragedy. The terror must stop somewhere.
 
Trvlr
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:47 am

One must realize that much of the "hatred" of the United States in Europe stems from the fact that it is just fashionable to do so. Politically, Economically, and Socially, the United States is very beneficial to Europe (and vice versa), and I doubt that most Europeans truly think otherwise.

Aaron G.
 
Klaus
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Trvir

Wed Sep 12, 2001 8:58 am

Trvir: One must realize that much of the "hatred" of the United States in Europe stems from the fact that it is just fashionable to do so.

I´m not to belittle you, but you can´t really have firsthand knowledge here. I do. It is not "fashionable" to hate the USA.

There are real issues where the USA and Europe have serious differences. But these differences are understood on the firm basis of our common fundamentals.

The differences are far, far smaller than our common ideals.

Trvir: Politically, Economically, and Socially, the United States is very beneficial to Europe (and vice versa), and I doubt that most Europeans truly think otherwise.

Nobody doubts that on this side of the pond.
 
sccutler
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:40 am

In another context, some of these comments might be sources of amusemnet, but there is none to be had here, now.

But, AgnusByMaster, having said that US foreign policy is "a joke," I'll take a leap here- I doubt you know much of anything about current foreign policy.

In any event, if you want your policy comments to be taken seriously, comment about particular policies with which you disagree, explain why you disagree, and propose your well-reasoned and better alternative. In the absence of these elements, your comments are but the addled braying of an ignorant idiot.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
AgnusBymaster
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 10:50 am

I thought it would be plainly obvious that I was referring to how OTHER nations see US foreign policy. My point is that this particular administration has gone further to provoke anti-US sentiment than the Clinton administration. And now, we are paying the price.
 
Klaus
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AgnusBymaster

Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:09 am

AgnusBymaster: My point is that this particular administration has gone further to provoke anti-US sentiment than the Clinton administration. And now, we are paying the price.

I don´t think it´s all the fault of the new administration. But I would say it was a bad mistake to effectively abandon the middle east initiative - which of course meant that the US kept supporting Israel and abandoned any support for the palestinians.

When our own (german) foreign minister was asked to step in and mediate between israelis and palestinians I got a weird feeling. This wasn´t right! Not that he wasn´t willing or competent (he´s both). But the USA just dropping out of sight was a little like watching the pilot jumping with a parachute...

I don´t see real damage done in the western world. Bush has annoyed many, but I still don´t see any substantial alienation.

I think it´s the palestinians who lost all hope - and today, they also lost a lot of the sympathy they had left in the world (even if they probably haven´t been part of the attack).

All these victims - for nothing...  Crying
 
AgnusBymaster
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:11 am

But, AgnusByMaster, having said that US foreign policy is "a joke,"

That's called quoting out of context. In fact, I explicitly stated that I was not presenting my own personal opinion. I never stated whether I agree or disagree with anything! This is what I said:

People abroad just view the Bush administration as a joke, especially with all his talk about a missile defense system. I'm not trying to justify this, but there's no doubt their's a lot of anti-US sentiment out there.
------------------------------------------------
IMHO, we have antagonized much of the rest of the world, and this present administration has only furthered this. It is only because the rest of the world is so reliant upon US trade that I believe there is no possiblity of a World War in the near future.

But even if another nation cannot destroy our nation and the callings for which we stand, they can take away the lives of our citizens as an act of protest, and therefore, we must do all that is possible to prevent the loss of any more US citizens.
To reiterate, we have been shown by the rest of the world that a great deal of damage can be done to the US w/o the use of nuclear weapons. The group responsible for this act is trying to show us that our priorities are misaligned. Whether or not we should believe that message is another issue entirely.
 
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 11:32 am

Sccutler--I am not citing specific examples because the motivating factors of the hatred towards the US, as they vary from nation to nation/culture to culture. Much of it is indeed greed/envy, but of course, there are instances where genuine ideological conflicts, and conflicts of foreign policy are at play.

I think Klaus makes a good point in saying that many nations are merely "annoyed" with US foreign policy. As it stands presently, I do not believe there is any foreign country who would declare war on the US...certainly not directly, at any rate.

But, as we saw by those Palestinians dancing in the street, there are people with a genuine hate for the USA and what it stands for. And all it takes is a small millitant contention (eg...Osama Bin Laden and his followers) to lay the plans for an act of terrorism against the US.

I believe today's attack was unusually elborate and well-orchestrated. And while it came very far from crippling the nation as a whole, it resulting in a terrible tragedy.

My point is that the US should do MORE to prevent acts such as those that occured today. These "low-tech" acts of terrorism are the real threat to the US.

The country itself is in no real danger...only its citizens.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 12:08 pm

Certain elements of the world will soon be viewing the US through the wrong end of an A-10s gatling gun.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
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*** X X X X ***

Wed Sep 12, 2001 4:18 pm

I know that many people in Australia view the US as a very bad thing indeed. I also believe this. The United States in my opinion is a trigger happy superpower, a global policeman. I do not wish to offend anyone, as i feel as much as anyone else immense sorrow for the loss of life, but I think the US had yesterdays 'bombings' coming...for all the atrocities the US commits agains what they label "Rogue nations" it is about time someone stood up to them, and gave them some of their own medecine. The bombing of innocents in Iraq, the destruction (through Israel) of Palestinian homes.
This is just my opinion, but I do know that many people my age (17) in Australia feel the same way.
Ashley
 
ryanb741
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 4:22 pm

All those levely Aussies and the kind way they treat asylum seekers.

Look mate, I used to live in OZ and I don't think I've ever seen a more pompous, up their own arse race as the Australians so get back to eating meat pies and the other things your country is so good at. To say the US 'had this coming' is disgusting - NOBODY deserves this.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Wed Sep 12, 2001 4:34 pm

I live in Australia but I do not call myself and "Aussie" please find below an extract of an email I sent to some of my friends concerning the recent Refugee crisis...
"As you may or may not know, I am very strongly opposed to the current government's stand on Asylum Seekers. This folowing article backs up most of my viewpoints. Many people in my religion class think that they should be sent back to where they came from, without backing their arguments up with any evidence. The government calls them "Illegal" to gain public support for their cause. It works. These people are people escaping political persecution in countries like Afghanistan where the ruling Taliban governs with an iron fist. Placing these refugees in detention centres is little more than placing them in a concentration camp - because this is what those places are like. People who have been in these camps for two years and over and they are the ones on hunger strikes...12 year olds are going on hunger strikes. You cannot tell me that it 'serves them right,' because at 12, were you trying to flee from a country that tortures its citizens? Would you not want to try to come to a country where there was even a little hope of a new start? It appals me that people my age do not want to give these people a hope...there is a word for that...Xenophobia...a fear of anything foreign. Many of you condemn Pauline Hanson and her ideologies, however you are thinking exactly as she does. "
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:31 am

So Goodbye, you first say you're sorry for the Americans and then you say that we deserve this? No civilized society deserves what we got so you might as well just shut up once and for all.
 
Klaus
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Goodbye

Thu Sep 13, 2001 9:39 am

Goodbye: I do not wish to offend anyone, as i feel as much as anyone else immense sorrow for the loss of life, but I think the US had yesterdays 'bombings' coming...

Nobody will ever deserve what happened. It is an inexcusable atrocity and the whole world is mourning right now.

In a political analysis, there may be some points where mistakes have been made. But that doesn´t change the fact that the sole responsibility for this lies with the terrorists!
"had it coming" is far too strong here.


Goodbye: Placing these refugees in detention centres is little more than placing them in a concentration camp - because this is what those places are like. People who have been in these camps for two years and over and they are the ones on hunger strikes...12 year olds are going on hunger strikes.

Please, don´t use this comparison! I know how tempting it is to get out "the big club" in a discussion. But concentration camps have a completely different meaning. There is still a huge difference between discomfort and cruel torture!

Maybe australian schools don´t teach a lot about what happened in nazi Germany; But this comparison should really be off limits here.
 
Twotterwrench
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 9:50 am

Angus, you go straight to hell...

Mr. Bush has an obligation to the American people here to ensure that retribution is swift, thorough and continues as long as is needed for the islamic fundamentalists to get the idea that America will not bow to terrorism. Ever. As far as world opinion goes, I couldn't give a damn. If we have to hunt them all down and kill everyone of them to ensure this won't happen again, then sign me up. America has a right to defend herself and no obligation to care what the palestians or any other extremist group "thinks about us."
 
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:35 pm

I feel sorry for the victims caught up in this tragedy, however I still stand by my opinion that the US had it coming. For all the atrocities they commit in other countries, it is hardly surprising that someone would retaliate. I know most of the fellow forum users are americans, and I know how you feel...however, I see a different side to it than you do. If you do not like it then sorry, but it is the way I feel.
Ashley
 
sudden
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 4:47 pm

I must say that right now we are all americans!!!
I can say without feeling ashame, that I don't agree with everything US do, but I don't go around and hate all the americans because of it.
And a day like this you have my full support, and I just wish I could do something to help out.

From europe with love!
When in doubt, flat out!
 
N202PA
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:25 pm

I feel sorry for the victims caught up in this tragedy, however I still stand by my opinion that the US had it coming. For all the atrocities they commit in other countries, it is hardly surprising that someone would retaliate. I know most of the fellow forum users are americans, and I know how you feel...however, I see a different side to it than you do. If you do not like it then sorry, but it is the way I feel.

Maybe these sick animals should blow up the Opera House, and see how you like it. Let's see 50,000 of *your* citizens and two of *your* biggest landmarks get annhilated in the span of a couple of hours, and let's see who's talking.

Good God, these sorts of attitudes I expect from Palestinians and Egyptians with an axe to grind, but I thought that Australia was our ally. Now I see one of you guys essentially dancing in the street at the thought of thousands of people dead. DEAD. You may be young, but so am I, and I can appreciate the difference between innocent life and horrific DEATH. If you can't, you're quite a sick individual.

No one deserved what happened yesterday. NO ONE. Be careful who you condemn, because the attention of these lunatics might next be turned on you.

This is not the time to place blame for a brutal assault on the raped woman. It is time for the civilized world to unite together and end this horrific terrorism once and for all before it spreads to England, Germany, Japan, and Australia--all prosperous nations who are supposed to be our allies.

We are picking sides now, and there are only two. Only one question remains: Do you fight with us, or fight against us? If you fight with us, arm up and let's find these animals. If not, either get out of the way, or prepare to be annhilated. It's your choice.
 
toady
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:50 pm

Goodbye:
I think I understand your point of view but your wording of it could have been better.
America did not have it coming in the sense that it was in any way 'deserved' - that's how your words are being interpreted.
The attack was the 'price' of having a free society. It was the 'price' of having a successful and dynamic nation. It was the 'price' of having global interests. It was the 'price' of having successive governments with questionable foreign policy.
Whilst the attack was not entirely surprising, it was in no way deserved or justifiable.


A side note to N202PA:
I can assure you that the "spread" has reached he US last. I'll not speak for any other nation but Britain has lived with terrorism within its shores for the last 30 years. I caution you against telling any Briton about the effects or the threat of terrorism.
Our 'fortune' is that the people we've pissed off do not have the means to fly jets into our buildings but they do (as they've proved over and over) have the capabilities to destroy buildings and kill many people.
Britain is not "supposed" to be your ally; it is the staunchest friend you'll ever have.
 
Guest

RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:40 pm

N202PA, you are 100% right.
Shame on "Goodbye", good bye once and for all, I hope I won't have to read your BS anymore, because it hurts terribly.

I am devastated, I will never be able to live as "before", it's unbelievable, inferno on earth. Thousands of innocent people exterminated, tens of thousands of persons who will have lost a family member or a dear one or a work colleague. The horrific sufferings the people on the 4 planes had to endure before their appalling death. The hundreds of desperate men and women on the windows crying for help, the ones who jumped, the hundreds rescue personnal and police officers who were killed while trying to provide help.

How the hell can a human being say that a nation, any nation, "deserves" this inferno?! Shame on the Palestinians dancing in the streets and eating sweeties, and shame on "Goodbye", they don't deserve to be part of humanity.


Now to the topic:
there are anti-US resentiments all over Europe, except the UK of course. they are the fruits of deep European FRUSTRATIONS and INFERIORITY COMPLEX; Europeans are sickly JEALOUS of the USA.
they depict the Americans as "naive", "childish", "ridiculous", and "very artificial".
When a new trend erupts in the US, it is qualified in Europe as something "crazy"; but they're not capable of realizing that a few months later every European is just crazy about the new American trend...
Many Europeans don't want to recognize that if they're free since 1945 they owe it ENTIRELY to the Americans and Britishs, to the sacrifice of millions of lives who were coming from the other part of the Atlantic ocean; during commemorations of D-Day 50th anniversary, a child said he thought the French had liberated themselves during the war; and you know what the Prime minister (E. Balladur) answered?! "he's right"!!...
Their jealousy is pathological, they don't overcome the fact that they have nothing to say in the world today and that there is only 1 superpower...
That's how America is perceived here. And to be a strong American supporter (as I am, if I still need to specify it) is, indeed, not at all fashionable.

Of course now, everybody is sadened and shocked and feels closer to the American people; but nevertheless, many think just as sickly and hatredly as Goodbye, that "they deserve it".
 
Lowsonboy
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:42 pm

Referring to the topic title, at the moment just about the entire world looks at the US with extreme sadness and sympathy. In Britain we have had much experience of the horror of terrorism but nothing on this horrendous scale. Our thoughts and prayers are with those who were tragically lost.

Toady I think your post was very reasoned and intelligent. Further to that I found an article in the Independent (British newspaper) that might be of interest to people here, a view of how many Arabs view the US and why their hatred may have driven them to heinous acts of terrorism.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=93623
 
Guest

RE: How The World Looks At The US

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:03 am

'Goodbye': None of the people maimed or killed on Sept. 11 had that coming. Nor did the family, friends or acquaintances of the victims.

You're in sore need of a heart, chum. And a reminder that to the hotheads who are so angry as to kill innocent civilians indiscriminantly, the whole western world is a target. On Tuesday, it was the WTC and the Pentagon. In the future, it might very well be Big Ben, the Eiffel Tower, the CN Tower or the Sydney Opera House. (In particular, any country that participated in the Gulf War should consider itself a potential Bin Laden target.)

As for the topic at hand, I think the Black Tuesday mass-murder will change how the world looks at the U.S. Amid all the evil that happened on that day, we also saw a lot of goodness, such as the people on the ground and on United 93 who risked and lost their lives to save others, or lined up to donate their own blood, or other good deeds.

Which revealed a truth: whatever you think about the politics, there's no escaping the fact that the United States is fundamentally a nation of good, decent people who will give to no end when given the chance to alleviate suffering at home and around the world.

A lot of Americans have been writing notes of thanks for the aid and sympathy offered by the rest of the world. As a non-American, I suggest that those of us who live in America's ally countries respond with this: Thank you, America, for all you've done for us, and God bless.


 
Klaus
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Toda,Reisinger

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:42 am

Toda,Reisinger: there are anti-US resentiments all over Europe, except the UK of course. they are the fruits of deep European FRUSTRATIONS and INFERIORITY COMPLEX; Europeans are sickly JEALOUS of the USA.

If that´s what you´re yelling into the face of every european you meet I´m not surprized you´ll certainly see a lot of rejection. (Imagine how an american would answer to that kind of abuse!)

Please, calm down!

I´ve got no idea in what kind of environment you´ve lived in Europe (Switzerland is quite a bit different from most other european countries, by the way). But my experience of 38 years is very, very different. If you can´t tell bickering about superficial things apart from fundamental differences on the important issues (which doesn´t exist), you´re in serious trouble.  Sad

Every nation has its own kind of silly shortcomings (perceived or real) and its own kinds of strengths (again perceived or real). And almost everyone (americans included!) makes fun of others from time to time. It may sometimes be hard to see if you don´t care to look, but there is a tremendous amount of common ground between Europe and the US.

And although you obviously chose to overlook this, by far the most europeans are well aware of it. Governments included.

For Germany, I can and must reject your accusations with full force!

Please note that the most misguided or mis-worded comments in these forums (both ways!) come from youngsters who obviously badly need to grow up. Decide for yourself if you want to be included, here.


It is beyond me how someone can spill even more hate and prejudice in times like this!  Sad
 
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RE: Toda,Reisinger

Fri Sep 14, 2001 3:20 pm

Why does everyone only ever think of the US? Perhaps because if we didn't pay any attention to them they would bomb us to oblivion. Everyone says the Palestinians are "sick and evil" because of the scenes depicted on the TV, of them dancing in the streets. Why are they "sick and evil"? The United States has put them in this position...being bombed like hell and thousands of their civilians being killed. No one thinks of them, do they? Is it only OK for the US to bomb civilians, but when someone does it to them it is regarded as "despicable and cowardly." Bombing the hell out of every country that the US suspects is invlolved is not going to solve anything...the US is so trigger happy that they do not have feelings for anyone else. The US has practically declared this "an act of war"...I thought a war was fought between two countries? They don't know who did it yet so how can it be an "act of war" when they do not know who did it. Colin Powell also said "it was an attack on the civilised world" is he saying that less-developed countries are not civilised? I feel that that is despicable...calling other countries uncivilised. Why don't you understand that it is your own stupidity in places that has brought you this. I repeat for the third time, that I feel immense sympathy for the thousands of people caught up in this.
Ashley
 
Guest

RE: How The World Looks At The US

Fri Sep 14, 2001 7:11 pm

"spill more hate and prejudice": what I said about European views of the US has nothing to do with hate! The title of the discussion is "How the world looks on the US"; to have an inferiority complex doesn't mean people hate each other, it does just mean that European States are frustated that they have very few to say compared to the US. It does mean that they're not particularly happy that there's only one superpower and it's not themselves.
Nevertheless, there is a tendancy to stigmatize the US for many problems in the world. The violence that erupted in Italy during the G-8 summit was directed mainly against the United States. In France and elsewhere Mc Donald's restaurants have been vandalized just because they're American (but BTW full of hungry Europeans clients!).
And I'm speaking of the attitude in time of peace; today, everything is of course different, the shock, the sadness, the horror are incredible.
Now, real hatred against America can be widely found throughout the Arab and Islamic world. It's a deadly hatred, as we are so tragically witnessing. Islamic fundamentalists want to annihilate everything which is different, all the infidels, and first on the list is America, lovely called "the Great Satan"


BTW, "Every nation has its own kind of silly shortcomings": that's right, and your "educational" post is so typically German!
 
dvk
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Fri Sep 14, 2001 10:34 pm

Dear Goodbye,

You are a sick, twisted, and extraordinarily immature person, and your "opinions" go way over the line of acceptability. I hope you never reach a position of any power, because I shudder to think what irrational actions you might take.
I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
 
ryanb741
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Fri Sep 14, 2001 10:37 pm

Goodbye - I see your point, but I don't agree with it.

'Civilised' countries are ones that don't deliberately target civilians in terrorist attacks. I don't think we can call thousands of dead Americans 'Collateral Damage' now can we........
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
wn700driver
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:32 am

SUDDEN, you are credit to your nation.

Also, this laden guy has killed people of many nationalities this week. I say we let whichever nation wants to help us out when we bomb those fools back into the bronze age
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
avion
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:38 am

Klaus in what way is Switzerland different from other european countries?/

Tom
 
NoUFO
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sat Sep 15, 2001 6:07 am

> Klaus in what way is Switzerland different from other european countries?/

Maybe Klaus knows - not me since the last Kanton of Switzerland has accepted women's suffrage ...
However, Toda,Reisinger seems to be pretty weird and/or comes from outer space.

Regards,
NoUFO
(one of some 200.000 people who went to the memorial at Brandenburg Gate today in Berlin and one of 800 million Europeans in 43 countries [including Switzerland] who grieve.
I support the right to arm bears
 
User avatar
Goodbye
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:56 am

Tell me, what is bombing the hell out of everyone going to acheive?
Perhaps start WWIII and get thousands more killed.
 
tupolev154b2
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sun Sep 16, 2001 7:02 am

Goodbye, that is why we should keep our bombing as limited as possible. Forget about getting the Taliban - lets just get bin Laden.
 
Klaus
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Goodbye

Sun Sep 16, 2001 7:55 am

Goodbye: Why does everyone only ever think of the US? Perhaps because if we didn't pay any attention to them they would bomb us to oblivion. Everyone says the Palestinians are "sick and evil" because of the scenes depicted on the TV, of them dancing in the streets. Why are they "sick and evil"? The United States has put them in this position...being bombed like hell and thousands of their civilians being killed. No one thinks of them, do they?

That´s the thing with growing up: It helps you to sort things out and get more perspective... (sorry!)  Wink/being sarcastic

I agree with some of the tendencies in your post; The trouble is that my perspective is still a lot different.

I´m certainly critical of several aspects of US foreign policy (as are many americans, by the way). And the problematic (although in my opinion not necessarily malicious) policy towards the palestinians is one of these.

But the essential distinction is that thousands of people just died - many americans and many other nationals. And this sentiment of "they had it coming" is just completely inappropriate. Because none of the victims was responsible for US foreign policy! Even if they were, I´m staunchly against the death penalty.

The problem with world politics is much, much more one of ignorance, bad judgment and misguided alliances than one of evil intentions (which are still present, as we had to witness Sad).

Very many serious problems had originally started with assumptions about other people´s (presumed bad) intentions, though. So please, be careful!
 
Klaus
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Toda,Reisinger

Sun Sep 16, 2001 9:27 am

Toda,Reisinger: "spill more hate and prejudice": what I said about European views of the US has nothing to do with hate! The title of the discussion is "How the world looks on the US"; to have an inferiority complex doesn't mean people hate each other, it does just mean that European States are frustated that they have very few to say compared to the US. It does mean that they're not particularly happy that there's only one superpower and it's not themselves."

Okay, let me rephrase that: "contempt and prejudice". Is that a better fit, then?

The problem is that your sentiment is obviously based on a lack of knowledge (and a very biased perception).

It seems to be based on the assumption that against "the greatest nation on earth" every other nation must by necessity be deeply deficient. I see two possible ways to react to this: You can either be insulted (the natural reaction) or you can choose to politely ignore this kind of attitude. Wink/being sarcastic

Neither the USA nor any other nation (or association of nations) has reason for an inferiority (or superiority) complex. I think we should all be able to act like it.

Knowledge is power! Wink/being sarcastic


Toda,Reisinger: Nevertheless, there is a tendancy to stigmatize the US for many problems in the world. The violence that erupted in Italy during the G-8 summit was directed mainly against the United States. In France and elsewhere Mc Donald's restaurants have been vandalized just because they're American (but BTW full of hungry Europeans clients!).

You can´t really expect me to speak for the violent activists!

One trend is visible, however:

The USA have never very much (if at all) cared about the history, interests or sensitivities of other nations. And this careless unilateralism that became more and more apparent over the decades has unnerved many and angered some.

Most keep their perspective and remind themselves of common ground, but a few take it as an excuse to become violent. (I would wish flying stones were still our biggest concern right now! Sad)

The terrible atrocity committed a few days ago was in no way justifyable. But the terrorists are obviously trying to exploit the widespread indignation in many islamic countries. (Which apparently doesn´t even register on the US radar screen. "Get over it!" is usually not the best answer here.)


Toda,Reisinger: And I'm speaking of the attitude in time of peace; today, everything is of course different, the shock, the sadness, the horror are incredible.

It would be a mistake to believe this attack was just directed against the USA. I think the emotions of all the people this time reflect the actual situation.


Toda,Reisinger: Now, real hatred against America can be widely found throughout the Arab and Islamic world. It's a deadly hatred, as we are so tragically witnessing. Islamic fundamentalists want to annihilate everything which is different, all the infidels, and first on the list is America, lovely called "the Great Satan"

The trouble is that much of it was foreseeable. Had anybody cared.


Toda,Reisinger: BTW, "Every nation has its own kind of silly shortcomings": that's right, and your "educational" post is so typically German!

Well, well. Isn´t it nice to always have a narrow-minded prejudice at hand...
 
OO-AOG
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sun Sep 16, 2001 9:48 am

Toda Reisinger

Hey we live in the same city! But I strongly disagree on your first post.

There are anti-US resentiments all over Europe, except the UK of course. they are the fruits of deep European FRUSTRATIONS and INFERIORITY COMPLEX; Europeans are sickly JEALOUS of the USA. :-o

Definately not. You don't get it. We all know that what we see in all TV soaps like Beverly Hills is not the reality, and that the american dream is not really one.

I'm often in the States and I would, I think, never immigrate there. It's true that I'm against their foreign policy but What I don't like is simply their way of thinking. Look at all the rules they have for everything! I simply love Europe, the real place for personal freedom, where you can do something whitout someone to tell you how to do it. So frustration, maybe sometimes, when we have to follow their rules. Inferiority, never, where?!
Jealous? Must be a joke Big grin
What happened Thursday is a real tragedy, but I hope they will not react in a way that will make another worldwide tragedy. We need to fight against terrorism, not again a religion and must avoid to create another wwar where thousends of innocents will die. Ben Laden is rumoured to be a former product of the CIA, I am not surprised. Just think that in couple of days, children, womans and innocent people will probably die in the streets of Kabul under bombs, while the rat of Ben Laden will be safe somewhere far away. This is really a sick world.  Sad




Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
Klaus
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Avion, NoUFO

Sun Sep 16, 2001 9:58 am

Avion: Klaus in what way is Switzerland different from other european countries?

They´ve got one of the oldest (and strangest Wink/being sarcastic) democracies in Europe; And they´ve stayed neutral through several centuries. There were influences from other countries (they´re bordering Germany, France, Italy, Austria and Liechtenstein), but they´ve staunchly refused to really take part in european politics (which probably saved their independence, but let them grow apart from the other countries).

It´s only now as they are completely surrounded by the european union that they are seriously thinking about a possible change of course. But such a long (and largely successful) history tends to make people a bit conservative.

And then there´s that issue of the banks, of course... Wink/being sarcastic


NoUFO: Maybe Klaus knows - not me since the last Kanton of Switzerland has accepted women's suffrage ...

...in 1990... Wow!  Wink/being sarcastic
 
avion
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RE: How The World Looks At The US

Sun Sep 16, 2001 10:50 am

Klaus what part of that democracy is strange? The swiss system is very american. Actually Switzerland took the american example.
Also economically Switzerland is more like the US. Less social security and more entrepreneurship. The EU should adopbt Switzerland as an example. A federation of 4 different ethnicities living peacefully together.

So please dont call it strange.

Tom
 
Klaus
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Avion

Sun Sep 16, 2001 12:27 pm

Avion: Klaus what part of that democracy is strange? The swiss system is very american. Actually Switzerland took the american example.

From a european point of view, that system is somewhat strange... Relax, just kidding! Wink/being sarcastic

I´m actually surprised to hear that. The roots of swiss democratic institutions reach back to long before the USA had been founded.

I was originally thinking of some of the more bizarre traditional procedures still in use in some regions, as far as I know (which I just can´t believe to be american-based). And swiss citizens have their say in very many detailed policy decisions which is unusual to that extent within Europe.

Switzerland is certainly one of the most respectable democracies over here, there´s no question. They are just doing some things a little differently.


Avion: Also economically Switzerland is more like the US. Less social security and more entrepreneurship. The EU should adopbt Switzerland as an example.

There are reasons why that is not so. Every system has its strengths and its weaknesses. But it´s always good to look for improvement either way.


Avion: A federation of 4 different ethnicities living peacefully together.

There are more examples for that... And they are not always ecstatic about it, either. But I´ve heard of no really serious problems.  Smile

Avion: So please dont call it strange.

I don´t see your problem. "Strange" as in "unusual". Just relax! We´re good neighbours.

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