Matt D
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Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 1:52 am

I’m sorry, but it’s time to clean house, so to speak. If it is determined that these bombings are the result of some planning from another country (specifically the Middle East), then President Bush should have no recourse but to annihilate that country at nothing short of a holocaust level. It’s time that someone spoke the truth for what it is. All of these countries: Iran, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Afghanistan, etc. all HATE the US and sponsor anti US activities. We all saw the images of the people over there: people rejoicing in the streets. And half of them were women and children. You can scream about the barbarism of slaughtering all of these “innocent” people, but the reality is that they hate the US and the West. They always have. And they always will. They are taught that in their culture. Unless you nip that bud right at the source, you mark my words: it is only a matter of time before an attack like yesterday happens again. Not if, but when. And next time, it will be the West Coast (namely LA) that gets hit. Forget about international “rules” and “guidelines” involving the US targeting (and sniping) individual persons. In times like this, when the other country has fired the first shot, all bets are off. All “rules” of diplomacy are out the window. Basically, it’s time to colloquially “kick some serious ass” any way we can. Send the snipers. Send the B-1’s and B52’s. And if push really comes to shove, maybe another nuclear weapon of the Hiroshima or Nagasaki variety will be what we need to use to send a wake up call to the rest of the world.

Sadly though, many innocent people will be killed in such an attack. But any way you look at it, innocent people are going to be killed. So it basically boils down to them or us. Well I vote us. All opposed?

The “I’s” have it.

These nations and these people have no value for human life. They have no respect for our country. It’s time to do something about it once and for all. We need to send a message to the rest of the world that we will not tolerate these atrocities any further.
We need to end the fear and the paranoia that rules over our country.

And let’s talk about airport security and call it for what it is: a joke. The politically incorrect truth of the matter that no one dares speak, lest they be labeled racist is that these security people are those that have no work ethic. They are lazy, uneducated, and probably couldn’t get jobs flipping hamburgers at McDonalds. For them, getting paid $7 an hour represents one step above sitting home, watching Jerry Springer and collecting welfare. Most of these people were put there to fulfill some local political quota agendas. Our security processes are fine. Our equipment is fine. The Achilles Heel in this process is the people that are operating them. Security processes are only a tool, and only as competent (and effective) as the people using them. Like your computer, you put garbage in, you get garbage out. And that’s exactly what airport security has been for over 20 years. It’s high time we send these losers walking, and bring some competent airport people in. This will serve a dual purpose. First, we’ll have effective security. And second, we won’t have to resort to Orwellian procedures of paranoia that I’m afraid will be the end result. Again, our country is taking a reactive, rather than proactive approach to the problem. And no, limiting gate access to “ticketed passengers only” is nothing but a cosmetic approach that will do little, if anything to provide genuine security. I think the fact that not one, not two, not three, but FOUR hijackings yesterday are enough to blow a big hole in that argument.

Once the person(s), group, or nation responsible for this act is known, the US should send an ultimatum to the country responsible. Those countries MUST extradite those responsible to the US. Otherwise, we will destroy that nation. We will have no other options. This cycle of terrorism MUST be stopped. It MUST be stopped at the source. We shouldn’t have to respond to these events on a case by case basis, leading to measures that ultimately WE will have to bear the burden for.

It’s time to take action. And we must take action as soon as those at fault are known.
 
TWFirst
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:14 am

Well Matt, here's a great example of what something like this does to people: bring them together. Because....


I AGREE WITH YOU. (believe it or not)



A message to those who call America the "head of the snake"...

If America is the head of the snake then you're the shit that comes out of the asshole of the snake, and like many animals, America is about to devour it's own waste. Be prepared.
An unexamined life isn't worth living.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:20 am

AMEN! I say we ditch these do-nothing peace-nicks & just solve this problem already. We have the mightiest military on earth, I say its time we use it. But, as I said in another post, we need to wait. Just long enough so that reconstruction is well under way. That way, these cowards will die knowing that America can not be stopped or altered by lowlife foriegn trouble makers.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
JetService
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:51 am

I do think America should take this opportunity to not only punish those responsible for the disgusting attack, but to attack the entire institution of terrorism. All countries that notoriously harbor, protect and bankroll these radical groups, should be targeted and severely dealt with. Now is the time while the support of the American citizens and the world is there. This is no time for political correctness and passiveness. That would gaurantee similar attacks in the future. Terrorism is said to be difficult to combat, because it does not have a head. I disagree. All of these Middle East countries are the head of terrorism. In the past, it would not be popular to do what is necessary to defeat it. After yesterday, it would be popular and supported. The scope and severity of the attack, IMO, has given President Bush a lot of options. He needs to take advantage of that and cut the throat of terrorism. Hopefully collateral damage to innocent Arabs will be minimal, but they will be inevitable. This must not discourage anyone from doing or supporting what needs to be done. For the sake of ALL innocent lives around the world, now is the time for a viciously destructive campaign on terrorism and its enablers.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 3:58 am

if the WTV will be reconstructed, and I feel it should be the case, this won't happen before years.
America won't be able to "wait" so long; in a few years Iran will have the nuclear bomb, if they're not stopped

Matt D, you are 100% right.
 
LHMark
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 5:44 am

My family is from the Sudetenland (The part of the Czech Republic that, prior to WWII, was ethnically German. Before the war, the Germans occupied and annexed the Sudetenland in a move that was administratively approved by England (thank you, Mr. Chamberlain).

After the surrender of Germany, Czech soldiers allowed each German two bags, then deported them all (many whose entire heritage lay in that region) out of Czechoslovakia. My family was resettled in Nuremburg.

The raging part of me thinks we could do the most damage to those who hate and strike us by deporting all non U.S. citizens with passports from those countries, then shutting our borders to them forever more. None get in, no one dies. It'll be hell to ccatch a cab in NYC for a while, but hey, native New Yorkers used to do that job, too.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:02 am

I'm thinking that we are all feeling understandably Xenophobic right now...
LHMark...I think that your last idea is the best one...if they can't get in, they can't do the damage...

Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Dasa
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:07 pm

Is anyone else as shocked at these comments as I am? It's like American's have gona back to the 50's, where everyone different was hated. You may feel clouded by anger now, but don't let this affect your judgement people.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:48 pm

it's not only a question of anger, Dasa

what happened on September 11th will affect everything, not only our "judgement". I am under shock, unable to think to anything else than this unprecedented inferno, although I'm sitting in GVA and managed to get in touch with all my friends in New York.

this apocalyptic catastrophy must open our eyes, the eyes of the non-Muslim world.

Who could have imagined, even in his worst nightmares, that such a horror could ever happen? - Nobody

Who today, even if it's quite impossible to think to anything apart from the disaster, could imagine a nuclear bomb falling on New York or Los Angeles? - Perhaps nobody, it seems "impossible", "too irrealistic, Holywoodian science-fiction".
And yet, the impossible has happened on September 11th 2001, reaching unthinkable new levels of horror and destruction.

If we don't act to eradicate these evil forces, and at least stop them in their aim to acquire nuclear bombs, we will face the danger of full annihilation.

And we shouldn't think that any understanding is possible with these evil forces; their motivation does not lie in the delimitation of Israel's borders 1 mile east or 1 mile west. Their motivation is much more general: they "have to" eliminate all the "Infidels", which means the non-Muslims. The Jews are the worst Infidels, but Christians are not far away on the list.

Of course not every Muslim is an extremist wanting to Islamize the world; many Muslims must feel very sad and uncomfortable today.
But the Muslim fundamentalists are presently the greatest danger for the world. If we don't neutralize them soon, they will eliminate us all, as they exterminated so many innocent human beings on September 11th 2001.
 
L-188
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 6:53 pm

I will have to agree with Matt D's comments on the security people that we usually see at airports. That being said there are exceptions to this.

You know what is funny. You have a lot of these unprofessional people working security at major airports with real and serious security threats.

Up here at a lot of the remote airports in Alaska where the security threats are minimal. Airport security is provided by a State Public Safety officer who is often the town firefighter and police officer...

Just something to think about.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Fly-by-pilot
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 7:43 pm

I feel that we have the right to do anything, but use the "bomb". Napalm, uranium tipped munisions are all encouraged(sarcasm((or is it)(yes it is just playing))), but even they dont deserve the atomic bomb(or do they?).
 
JetService
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 11:33 pm

Dasa, I'm not a big fan of the 'Kill the Arabs' talk, but rest assured, what I said above did not have a shread of revenge nor hatred in it. It is about protection and freedom. Terrorists will continue to do this as long as they exist. The most frightening part of the whole ordeal was the ease of execution and the resulting deaths. When the body count is finished, more Americans will have died then in the entire Korean War. Its just a matter of time until the terrorists have portable nukes. Do you think they will use them? Of course they will. When that happens, the death toll from the WTC attacks will be peanuts. And they won't stop at New York, Chicago, LA, San Fran, Atlanta, Dallas, etc, etc. They will do this to London, Paris, Berlin, Sydney, etc., etc. Pres. Bush/Congress and NATO must destroy the entire terrorist network NOW! And they must destroy any state that stands in the way. This isn't about revenge anymore, its about the future. Terrorists have demonstrated that they have the capacity to wage war, not just denotate a few bombs in front of a flower-shop on a street corner, but to wipe out tens of thousands. Bin Laden will undoubtedly be killed this year, but I hope people don't think that will be enough. Regimes must be overthrown and a lot of real-estate needs to be turned-over. These terrorists are as crazy, if not crazier than Hitler and they must be taken just as seriously and the resolve must just as dedicated.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Lindy
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 11:41 pm

You people are f*@#en sick supporting this bastard MattD. Voilence wont resolve any problems!!!!!
NOW ALL OF YOU HAVE GOOD EXAMPLE of people that are living in other countries and didnt have good night sleep for so many years!!!!

The thing that they did tuesday is totaly fu*@#@ed up but this is only drop in the sea comparing to how many innocent people were killed by AMERICAN soldiers!

KILLING WONT RESOLVE ANY PROBLEMS, IT WILL JUST CREATE MORE...
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Thu Sep 13, 2001 11:57 pm

Riiight, Matt D-let's make EVERY person in that country pay for the decisions and the actions of a few. Awful Christian of you, pal. You're just cementing my opninion of you in stone.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:11 am

"Lindy", go to hell! that's all you deserve with your "drop in the sea"..it's a SHAME! btw, if you're not happy in the US, just leave, to Afghanistan for instance. but don't insult the memory of thousands of innocent people who have been exterminated by the most horrific means.


JetService
you said it all, you have understood the terrible dangers waiting us all, and you have written it so clearly. I'm copying your post right here so that there will be more chance people read it:


"It is about protection and freedom. Terrorists will

continue to do this as long as they exist. The most

frightening part of the whole ordeal was the ease of

execution and the resulting deaths. When the body

count is finished, more Americans will have died then in

the entire Korean War. Its just a matter of time until

the terrorists have portable nukes. Do you think they

will use them? Of course they will. When that happens,

the death toll from the WTC attacks will be peanuts.

And they won't stop at New York, Chicago, LA, San

Fran, Atlanta, Dallas, etc, etc. They will do this to

London, Paris, Berlin, Sydney, etc., etc. Pres.

Bush/Congress and NATO must destroy the entire

terrorist network NOW! And they must destroy any

state that stands in the way. This isn't about revenge

anymore, its about the future. Terrorists have

demonstrated that they have the capacity to wage

war, not just denotate a few bombs in front of a flower-

shop on a street corner, but to wipe out tens of

thousands. Bin Laden will undoubtedly be killed this

year, but I hope people don't think that will be enough.

Regimes must be overthrown and a lot of real-estate

needs to be turned-over. These terrorists are as crazy,

if not crazier than Hitler and they must be taken just as

seriously and the resolve must just as dedicated."


JetService

I do hope the American Government is as clear-sighted as you are.
 
Lindy
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:18 am

Yeah, lets kill everybody. Thats suounds like fun.
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:32 am

Mr Toda,

Why did you ommited the first part of Jetservice post, I think it has it's value also. I'm not sure you "just" forgot to highlight it.

Dasa, I'm not a big fan of the 'Kill the Arabs' talk, but rest assured, what I said above did not have a shread of revenge nor hatred in it. It is about protection and freedom.


Nicolas
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 12:37 am

Here's a quick overview of what I think.

What happened is a horrible tragedy, and whoever is responsible should pay the big price for it, be it a nation or an organization. But America should not use this tragedy as an excuse to bomb anyone that is innocent, even if they are not one of their good buddies.

Nicolas
 
FrankyA340
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 3:47 am

Do you have an American flag on your straight-jacket?
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:28 am

Nicolaki:
"an excuse to bomb anyone that is innocent"

May I ask you WHO IS "BOMBING ANYONE THAT IS INNOCENT"???????!!!!!!!!!!

Lindy:
"everybody" has been killed in the WTC.

FrankyA340:
I have it in my heart.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:35 am

Toda,

Please don't turn my words into something else. Read again.

Nicolas
 
ryanb741
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 4:40 am

Retaliation must be swift, severe and just. However, to say that all Muslims should be held responsible for this attack is like saying we should blame all Christians for the atrocities committed by Adolf Hitler.

Perspective please. SOME innocent civilians will die, this is inevitable but to advocate the mass extinction of millions will mean A) justice has not been done and B) the US itself will be the victim of countless retaliative attacks.

In memory of all those poor souls, please I hope for fairness and justice to prevail, and not simply revenge
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
ryanb741
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:04 am

Whilst understanding people's shock, I'm just curious. Why was nobody shocked at the number of civilians we killed in the Gulf? Why is nobody outraged about the countless thousands of civilians wiped out in Central America and Columbia, funded by the US government? Why do you never express horror at the millions who die in Africa every year? And now people are even calling for warheads to be dropped on Afghanistan, which will kill yet more civilians. So my question is: why do you value life so much more highly when the people are white and living in a western country?
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
JetService
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 6:51 am

Ryan, actually I do see outrage when civilians are killed in war. I think everyone expects a few to be killed on accident, but no one stands for civilian targets. If the American gov't intentionally targeted a non-military site filled with civilians, I think our press and citizens would be all over them. I know accidents happen, but intentional targeted would not be tolerated.
"Shaddap you!"
 
bombstar
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:03 am

Matt, I cannot believe your racist ignorant comments that you've just made. Maybe Cuba should take action against America for attempting to assasinate Castro, or China should bomb americans for bombing their embassy. You are very sick. I cannot believe you guys.
 
bombstar
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MattD

Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:05 am

Think about it if you lived in one of those countries that america was going to bomb, how would you feel?
Absolutely outraged i bet! I wouldnt expect you to die for the security of America. Rethink your thoughts! Your opinions are not valid.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:49 am

MattD, Jetservice,

I agree. It's time to show every terrorist organisation in the world that neither the USA or any other civilised nation on earth will tolerate this type of attack.

If we don't retaliate swiftly and with force then the attacks will happen again and again. NO MORE. Enough is enough.

mb
 
SA-JET
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 8:51 am

Matt D-AGREE!!!!! A massive recruitment drive for police officers should be held in the US, and they must be rotated to perform airport security duty in-between daily police functions. Airports in Europe have police with machine guns walking around-it's time the US does the same.
 
Guest

Crazy Nazi Idiots

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:04 pm

KILL KILL KILL! And using God as a reason. How many people have died in the name of God in the past? Millions! God rules, but some of you people are just as bad as the terrorists!
 
LHMark
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Fri Sep 14, 2001 2:07 pm

I think the terrorists are counting on us not wanting to be just as bad as them.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
flyguy1
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:14 am

Sure, lets get together with the enemies and hold hands. Thats a great idea(NOT). Why the hell should we have any regard for terrorists, or their allies? If the Afghans support Bin Laden, nuke them ASAP. Bin Laden will do this again, and next time who knows how bad it will be. That is why the only chance is total destruction of any allies to him. All of those on here who are against this method, what do you feel is the answer? I live in NYC, and know many people who are directly affected by this, if you saw their faces, im sure opinions would change.
Greg
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:41 am

The people of Afghanistan live under the burden of a horrendous, insane government. They are innocent people forced to live in a state of constant fear and poverty imposed by their leaders. Do you think they have a say in what goes on in their country?? Do they get to vote? Do you want to start a nuclear war, kill maybe millions of innocent just to kill a small organization of mad terrorists???
I think Nuclear weapons should be banned WORLDWIDE. They are simply unacceptable means of defense.
MattD you do not realize that the United States also indirectly causes alot of suffering in this world? If you nuke any countries just because their governments harbor terrorists and fund these ops, killing thousands of innocent in the proces you are no better than the terrorists you seek to terminate. They disagree with our government and it's actions, so decide to kill millions of innocent citizens. Isn't that exactly what would happen should we nuke these countries.
Justice means punishing the culprit(s) and separating them from the innocent.
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 10:09 am

These terrorist acts were perpetrated because of hate.

People want to respond in kind because of hate.

Where does it end?

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Matt D

Sat Sep 15, 2001 11:19 am

Matt, I can understand your anger and I certainly feel it myself. A muted reaction would only encourage future attacks. But I fear that retailation on a massive scale will only cause further bloodshed on American soil. So I am torn as to what should really be done. But make no mistake. I think Bin Laden's head should be on a stick.

Unfortunatley I have a feeling that this is only the beginning. Afganistan proved to be too much for the Soviets to handle. NATO forces could conquer that country but now without appallingly high losses...in the tens of thousands likely.
And If the terrorists really want to start killing Americans on a massive scale, they still have two options:

1. (The easiest): Contaminate the municipal water supplies of the country with a poision such as cyanide. My father is a civil engineer who designs water treatment systems, and he is shocked that this has not already been done. If done simultaneously, the death toll would be in the millions.

2. (Harder, but still possible): NBCW warfare. I am very skeptical that during the transition of power in the Soviet Union that all the nuclear weapons stockpiles remained intact. Or the chemical/biological warfare stocks for that matter. People were desperate at the time and I fear that this material has been in terrorist hands for quite a while. Devices could already be planted in major cities.

When we go to war, I fear that we will be struck back at within minutes. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't it seems.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:13 pm

As a new user of www.airliners.net I have analyzed Matt D's Thread and am in agreement with him. I do believe its time perhaps another Hiroshima.

-WSRegal
 
bombstar
Posts: 684
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CPDC10-30

Sat Sep 15, 2001 2:32 pm

Ahhhh! Contaminate Water with Cyanide?!?!?!

Your scaring the s$#! outta me!
 
DeltaRNOmd-80
Posts: 1979
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 3:48 pm

you could contaminate a supply of water by shitting in it. The filters would catch the cyanide, right?
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 4:09 pm

Dont let them in anymore, but first bomb the shi# out of them.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sat Sep 15, 2001 5:09 pm

I am deeply saddened by what happened in NYC and WAS a few days ago. I personally cried quite a lot, and feel deeply for all people who have lost loved ones. Whilst those lives won't be regained, the country will rebuild, and put this terrible tragedy behind it.

But OK Matt D...let us call a spade a spade.

Do you honestly think that the Arabic countries are the only ones guilty of terrorism? Israel, America, Russia, United Kingdom, France, Spain, South Africa, etc all have elements in their country's which support terrorism, either on the government side, or on the "other" side.

What makes this incident in America so special? Apart from the fact that the majority of it was broadcast live around the world, and the fact that aircraft were used?

Terrorism takes on many forms and is perpetrated by people of differing ideologies.

People, especially those in America, have a right to be angry. But not just about their own case, but angry about every single act of terrorism committed for whatever cause.

Is war the answer? Some seem to think it is. Maybe "war" is the right answer. Maybe "war" is the wrong answer. We call ourselves civilised, yet, here we have people calling for the destruction of entire countries. Going by what some of you people are saying, the subsistence goat farmers in Afghanistan share equal amount of blame as Osama bin Laden, and hence, should receive equal punishment.

What we are seeing at the moment, is nothing but a huge propaganda campaign by all sides. America is winning that campaign at the moment due to the massive media coverage and availability, added to the fact, that the campaign is a good one....i.e. the fight against terrorism. But let me ask this. If America (and the rest of the "civilised" world) is so intent on destroying terrorism, does that mean that all of Israel will be wiped out? After all, the Israeli's are not saints in perpetrating this evil. Neither are the English/Irish in the long running dispute over Northern Ireland. What about the Corsicans who are fighting for independence? Some of the extremist Corsican elements are guilty of terrorism. I could go on and on. I will pose a couple of questions. Is it only terrorism, if it is against "your" cause? Like I said in another thread, terrorism is a subjective term which is used as propaganda for whichever cause you are fighting for.

When the Chechens blew up the apartments and train stations in Moscow in September 1999, and in which a few hundred people were killed, Russia came under scrutiny for restarting the war with Chechnya. Russia from that point on regarded those Chechen elements as Muslim fundamentalist terrorists. Russia was (and still is) condemned by the "west" for their fight about domestic terrorism. They have asked for "western" help in fighting the scourge. Denied! At the time, the Clinton administration called for a "time out" in Chechnya. GWB, only 2 months ago, said that the Russian should pursue a non-violent, political solution to the Chechnya problem. Wise words, right? Obviously not. America gets hit on it's own soil. Suddenly, terrorism is needing to be eradicated. But what hyprocrisy it is, that when the Russians who are fighting Chechens terrorists, are told to look for a political solution (even that has been tried and tested and not worked), yet the American government is declaring war on their terrorists. Does it matter than the Chechens, and the terrorists (who are believed to be) responsible for the attacks on America, are both funded, trained and armed by the same person....Osama bin Laden.

So people, let us all join together as humans and fight the scourge of terrorism. Let us put aside all forms of ideology and join as one and fight terrorism, in all of it's forms. But be warned....it may just be your own backyard which will be getting bombed!
 
Hepkat
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RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:01 am

Why am I not surprised by this topic? I'm sorry to say, but many of us live such ignorant lives. It's truly shocking.

I am an American living in Austria, and before I came here, I guess I saw the world just the way any other American would. Chances are, if I were still in NYC, I would be advocating the bomb too. But let me tell you from my *PERSONAL* experience. Trust me, you guys in the U.S. only see HALF, let me repeat that, H-A-L-F, yes, let me say it again, H A L F of the story. You hardly get ANY international coverage in the news, only about 10 minutes or so, and it's shocking how bias this information is.

Since living in Europe, I'm learning things about the world I would have NEVER learned were I still in NY. I have a unique opportunity to step back and view the U.S. from a distance. It's very difficult to objectively judge when you're living there, with a cushy life, big house, 2 cars, 10 televisions, whatever, you name it, and with very limited UNBIASED international news coverage. Trust me guys, the rest of the world knows more about the U.S. than you know about the rest of the world.

Now, let me comment on these comments. Most of your comments show EXACTLY how LITTLE the average American knows about what's going on in the world. Chances are, most Americans haven't a clue how much of their tax dollars go to fund questionable regimes in the Middle East, Africa, South America. Trust me, we are just as guilty as any terrorist Middle East country. You're just shocked now because it has finally touched home territory, but the truth is, these terrorist activities have been happening for decades to many countries all over the world. People in the Middle East rightfully don't see what all the fuss is about, as they go through this on a daily basis.

Do a bit of reading, a bit of research, and you'll see just how our government has dragged our country into a controversy we shouldn't be concerned with in the first place, and for what reason? Politics, and the number of Jews with power and money in the U.S. THIS is the spade that needs to be called a spade. Our twisted foreign policies have been consistently criticized by our closest allies in Europe, who see it as provoking hatred against Americans. You don't understand why those women and children were jumping for joy when they heard about this tragedy. Yes, it's a terrible thing, but do you know what type of lives they have to lead because of our foreign policies? The U.N. has passed resolutions in the pass condemning Israel for their occupation, and every European (who receives much more international news than their American counterparts get) would readily agree that this growing tension in the Middle East began the day Israel started their occupation and the U.S. steadfastly refusing to condemn this, instead giving BILLIONS in aid, technological know-how and high tech American weapons. This is in turn used to continue the occupation of Arab lands.

You think dropping a bomb will solve anything? How naive! If that were the case the bomb would have been dropped years ago! If you knew anything about human behavior, you'd correctly guess that our bombing their country will only galvanize their resolve to terrorize Americans and America even more. YOU CANNOT TAKE AWAY A PERSON'S FREEDOM AND EXPECT THEM TO BE PASSIVE. We've seen this with slavery in the U.S., the Nazi's overrunning Europe, you see this with your children, you yourself experience this at work. The fact is, whether you are for Israel or not, and that's not really the issue, these Palestinians live impoverished, third-class citizen lives on their own turf. Tell me, how would you feel? How would you react? Of course! You'd fight back! You'd organize, throw stones, you'd hate the friends of those you view as your oppresser. We would react no differently, it's basic human nature. You'd find every which way to bring down the person you view as your oppresser, if that even means sacrificing a few of your lives.

We here in Europe are truly shocked by the events that happened, but under the surface, no one was really surprised. Everyone saw it coming. You Americans on the mainland are completely naive to these things, you lead such comfortable lives, cushioned by two oceans, having a great economy, this is the last thing on your minds. But trust me, when you step outside of the big rosy picture, and you stand in the middle, and to your right stands the U.S, and to your left stands the Middle East, you are in a much better position to objectively judge what's going on. Everyone I've spoken to, in my travels from the Arctic Circle in Norway, all the way down to the southern tip of Italy, to the Caribbean, to Asia, almost everyone agrees that the U.S. and Israel should receive most of the blame for the continuous tension in the Mid-East, which indirectly gave rise to the long list of terrorist organizations, intent on bringing down all American and Israeli interests, with or without their lives. Do you think it's by coincidence that these two countries are the main targets of terrorism? Why not Germany? Why not Italy? Why not Canada? Why not Australia? Go figure....

So to all you people running around urging Bush to drop the "bomb", and to drop it hard and fast, just be ready to accept the consequences. You want a war? You CAN'T HANDLE a war! Americans don't know the meaning of this word, much unlike their European cousins. Europe certainly knows what war means, and that's why they're all asking for a restraint reaction. Europeans know fully well what they have suffered in the name of war, they remember how it reduced their countries to smouldering rubble, how many millions starved, how many families were completely wiped out, they remember what it was like to fall asleep at night and wake up frozen dead the next morning. America never had to go through a war. During the last world war, Americans were having the time of their lives enjoying a booming economy, buying cars in record numbers, while Europeans had to rely on food handouts parachuted from the air in careboxes for survival. Yes, they thought their military might would ensure their survival, they thought their *superior* status in the world would save their hides from suffering. Try to learn from history and the mistakes others made, never rest comfortably on your laurels. As a third world country has probably shown us, we are just as vulnerable as everyone else. You think just because we have "the bomb" that that somehow exempts us from the ravishes of war? I laugh! Our enemies will find our weakness and exploit it to the fullest extent possible, just as they did with the WTC.

I'm absolutely appalled and filled with grief that ignorance has led many Americans to say such foolish things. Instead we should be using our energies to rid the world of organized religion (which is the main cause of so many of humanity's conflicts), especially those fanatics who claim to speak in God's name.

Imagine that, God created humanity, and we repay him by creating religion.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:06 am

Matt_D: I admire some of your posts if and when I see them. But what the hell have you done!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:27 am

Hepkat,

Your post is one of the best, and most thought-provoking I have ever seen on these boards. I agree with you 100%. For this, you have made it to my respected users' list.
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:43 am

yeah, Hepkat,
get rid of Israel, and all of a sudden Bin-Laden and all the others will put an end to the Jihad and we'll have a wonderful world!!!!!!!!!!!!

how can you be so blind?
"Israel" and the "numerous Jews with power and money"are the ones responsible; it seems you've learned interesting theories in Austria...
 
watewate
Posts: 2216
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2000 6:00 am

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:55 am

Hepkat didn't say that getting rid of israel was the answer to ending terrorism. He merely expressed his opinion that Israel, and American support for Israel are partially responsible for the formation of these terrorist organizations.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:56 am

Hepkat, I think you're full of shit. You can type as many words as you want in your disgusting ego-driven post and you will not convince me that this slaughter of thousands was excusable or the blame of anyone other than the people that carried it out. I see no point in responding to you further.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 5:01 am

THIS IS WELL SAID, JetService!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:26 am

Hepkat:
I agree 100%
I am glad to see some commons sense in this thread.
I can't say that I was suprised that this was going to happen. Considering all of the evils the US has done world-wide. I don't think bush should rush to drop a bomb on a country he think is possible. This will not accomplish anything. It certainly will not stop terrorism. Just as others have pointed out, the US can't continue building a box around ourselves and pumping money to an ally that continues to provoke attacks.

I will make some room for Hepkat on my respected users list too.

Thanks and I hope more of my fellow Americans read your post and maybe learn something.
Bring back the Concorde
 
mbj-11
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:29 am

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:43 am

I share similar sentiments as Hepkat and Aviatsiya, there is no excuse for what happened on Tuesday but if we are to call a spade a spade all countries will suddenly become shovels.However of note particularly is that when terrorism is perpetuated by 3rd world or poorer countries it seems to be made significantly worst than when developed or richer countries do it.South Africa, England ,Israel,United states along with a seemingly never ending list of countries are guilty of this. Take for example where I live .....Jamaica.1980 was the bloodiest election in our nations history, over 800 people died for nothing. And as it turned out, the CIA was involved in the whole violence before, during and after the election. Many people questioned why the CIA would become involved in and support the violence in Jamaica which took so many persons lives. Of course many people don't like to think about it because it's a United States group, but they helped in the blood letting of many persons. So if we are to start calling a spade a spade all of us would be guilty of terrorism.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
lewis
Posts: 3572
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:50 am

Destroy a whole nation MattD??? That makes sense! USA has destroyed many nations, why not another one. If supposedly i lived in Baghdad or Belgrade and I witnessed the death of my family by americans, I would have reacted too. Don't forget that thousands of children have died in iraq because of the lack of food and medicine caused by the embargo. USA needs to understand how much anger it has created around the world.
 
lewis
Posts: 3572
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 1999 5:41 am

RE: Time To Call A Spade A Spade

Sun Sep 16, 2001 6:53 am

Americans were happy too when USA bombarded baghdad and belgrade because supposedly you hit the 'bad'(for you) 'guys'. Why shouldn't they? USA has totally destroyed their countries.

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