747-600X
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World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 1:31 am

The eagerness of the American people to progress is making itself evident. The stocks which took a slam are bouncing back, already from the 8000s in the Dow back into the 9gs, and the sharp drop in gas prices is slowing to a halt. Aviation is pressing on, and it won't be too terribly long before things get back to that much-spoken of state of normalcy.

So what do you think we should do with Ground Zero once the rubble is cleared away?

Siskel Ebert says "Make it Green" - let it be a nameless garden with a crop of corn to be shared with all the world, an olive branch of peace grown from the pit of human hatred's worst incident.

Architectural firms around the world have begun conjectural studies for how to use this potential gold mine as far as Real Estate is concerned.


And then there's my proposal: Eight World Trade Center, named as there were 7 buildings previously... now to be the eighth - a single structure 450x450 feet, consisting of 9 150x150 towers which for the first 50 floors are together as a large building and the next 100 freestanding towers with 150 feet of space between them each. The space on top of the 50-floor base, between these towers, would be a memorial garden for the victims, and here would be the section(s) of wall from the previous towers. Bridges at 1/3, 2/3, and 3/3 of the way up the height of the 4 towers would unite them and secure that massive volume of space between them, and flying between the towers on the outter sides would be huge American flags, about 3/4 of the way up. Also, suspended in midair above the opening between all four towers, directly above the Memorial Garden, would be another huge American flag, so that people in the garden would gaze up through the towers at the sun-lit American flag far, far above.

So, as said... what do you think we should do with this property?
 
KROC
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:02 am

Build Build Build. Make the worlds biggest BUILDINGS (Plural). They can be a living working testeiment and monument to all those who lost there live's and also show the terrorists and the world, we will not be scared away, or backdown from anything.
 
FlyBoeing
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:11 am

The business of America is business. It isn't any disrespect to the dead that we continue their work. Free trade and free economies are the linchpin of our democracy.

I don't think we should go in for anything that gives the terrorists any gigantic rememberance of what they did to us. Americans don't live in the past. I think we should build something really big and awesome that would command exorbitant rents. Really distinctive and a suitable successor to the World Trade Center.

Such as this skyscraper in Dubai:


or this Hong Kong skyscraper:



With, of course, a bit of a memorial museum.

Why should we give the tip of lower Manhattan to weeping over our losses or disproportionately showing our "strength" with impotent symbolism? Let's let life go on.
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:18 am

The owner of the WTC wants to rebuild. I heard a rumor that Guiliani and Pataki will let it rebuild at no higher than 60 stories at 2 or 4 towers. It'll look like Liberty Plaza in Phili. Too bad we can't see the "New WTC" in shape of the middle fingers. But maybe we can see something like the skyscraper in HGK. I hope it won't be like the butt ugly one in LA.
"FUIMUS"
 
KROC
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 3:00 am

I had heard a plan for 4 50 tory buildings. Screw that. rudy talks so much about returning back to your normal life, that should include a massive symbol in Lower Manhattan in the form of a new and improved WTC.
 
mls515
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 3:42 am

It would be nice to re-build to at-least equal height of the old structures, but it doesn't look like the demand is there for towers that high.

I think a lot of care should be taken (and lots of $$$ spent) to design and build something that would deserve the title of the most beutiful building(s) on earth.
 
747-600X
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 4:06 am

Hmm... well I'm glad that we all seem to agree that it's good to rebuild (now watch, someone is about to disagree with a tongue of fire...)
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 5:01 am

Maybe instead of the cheap steel and glass buildings that we see in cities these days We can see buildings like The Woolworth, The Empire get built.I love the type of buildings built in the 20s and 30s that have the stone granite, marble and steel. You won't see that in buildings built in the 60s and beyond. Remember KROC that they don't have to be tall but beautiful like the buildings I've named above. Even the Metlife tower (The one with the clock) looks great. I hope the New WTC isn't built like the ugly PA building or like the one out in LA.

Remember the other factor. Building them is one thing. Having people working in them is another. Many vowed never to go back. Hell I won't go even if you gave me a corner office and paid me $500,000 a year. But it would be nice to fill up the emptier skyline with a building(s) like I suggested above.
"FUIMUS"
 
Yazoo
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 6:44 am

mae it a memorial, see that wall from a wtc trade that is still standing up, should be kept as a monument or something like that
whiping it and making it "green", will just destroy and important part of our history
Purple Pride!
 
Guest

RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 8:40 am

I think that they should make 2 towers that are a few stories higher to show that if you strike us down we will only be stronger. And they should have the exact same arcatechture(i know it is spelled wrong
 
Guest

RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:47 am

They should rebuild the World Trade Center exactly the way it was.
 
milldoh
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:56 am

How about this as a temporary memorial. Hopefully the pic will show. You can also get it at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/23/magazine/23MYODA.html





Like people everywhere, artists Paul Myoda and Julian LaVerdiere responded to the attack by anxiously calling around to friends, lining up to give blood, trying to figure out what to do, how to help. They spent the day looking up at a once familiar skyline and seeing something disorientingly blank. And that’s how they realized that they were in position to do something that few others could do. They knew those buildings; they had spent six months actually working there, out of an unusual art studio on the 91st floor of the north tower, putting together a light sculpture that was to have been installed next year on the radio antenna on top. In planning this work of art, which had been commissioned by the group Creative Time, they had studied the towers, viewed them from all over the city, immersed themselves in the culture of the place. They went to happy hour at Windows on the World; they walked down from the 91st floor, just to see how long it would take (about 45 minutes).

So in the aftermath of the explosions, the two artists conceived a new art project called ‘‘Phantom Towers,’’ pictured on the cover of this magazine. They imagined two powerful beams rising from a reflecting pool, refilling the void left by the twin towers with incandescence. ‘‘It’s an emotional response more than anything,’’ says LaVerdiere. ‘‘Those towers are like ghost limbs, we can feel them even though they’re not there anymore. Not being doctors or licensed crane operators, we realized that the best thing we can do to help is an artistic gesture that might offer consolation or a sense of security or hope.’’

The artists intend this as an ephemeral monument, occupying the hole in the skyline until rebuilding can get under way. ‘‘It is an irony, a kind of painful irony, that we looked at the towers the same way the terrorists apparently looked at them, as a symbol of communications, strength, power,’’ says Myoda. ‘‘I fully want office buildings to be there again. Not a graveyard or a rose garden or a piece of art. There should be big buildings. It ought to be the way it was again.’’
 
milldoh
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 12:00 pm

I should also add that artists, architects and lighting specialists are currently looking at making that pic a reality temporarily. It's not definite though.
 
mls515
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 12:51 pm

A USA Today article talked about that light sculpture also. I think it would be a good idea.
 
coboeing777
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 1:00 pm

Those light beams seem like a great idea. I hope they do that. I hate looking at the glow from the lights they use at night now for the recovery effort every night when I drive home from work on the Skyway in NJ. That eerie glow is especially bright on low overcast nights.

I sure hope they build new towers there, either exactly the same or bigger and better. It will definitely not be the same without those towers there. They have to put something equal again so NYC can regain its wonderful skyline again.
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:17 pm

Someone on Z-100 said make a hollow memorial. Rebuild the towers with floors for the lights but it will be empty. As in no offices or windows of the World. Just ligts and the building itself to fill and brighten the skyline. He echoed that it will be easy to rebuild but another taks of finding people who are willing to work int them.
"FUIMUS"
 
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yyz717
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 2:22 pm

Rebuild the office space...and incorporate a memorial.

How about 3 or 4 smaller towers reaching up 50 floors with a tall structure/memorial (a la Washington Monument or Toronto's CN Tower) reaching up the entire 110 story height of the WTC towers????

The office space should be replaced so that NYC retains its pre-eminence as a world finance/capital market. This is practical.

IMHO

Neil/Toronto
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
KROC
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 7:58 pm

Someting will eventually have to be rebuilt. With teh collapse of the WTC, Lower Manhattan lost 40% of its office space.
 
Aussiemite
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 9:42 pm

just one Q

Who would want to work in a building built in place where 6000 people died. Pretty eerie, I woudnt want to work somewhere so many people lost their lives.

About 1km from my house a few months ago some bloke died in a freak motorbike accident (perfect weather, dog ran infront of him) Exactly 12 months to the day earlier 2 motorcyclists died in the EXACT same part of the road im not talking 20metres between them I mean within 2 metres, I witnissed both accidents. That gives me goosebumps.
 
KROC
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:18 pm

I would work in a super tall building. I'd ask fo rthe top floor too. I will not be scared by some bitch-ass terrorist.
 
747-600X
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 10:46 pm

Yes, I too would be proud to work there.
 
redraider
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Wed Oct 24, 2001 11:16 pm

Studies have shown that it is now impractical to build the megastructures a la the Sears Tower and WTC today. Also, I would be willing to bet that you would have a problem finding tenants to work in the 60-100 floor range.

My company had offices at World Financial Center and the displaced employees do not even want to go back there after what happened. As a result, we have leased new office space mid-town to accomodate them.
My wife can't wrestle, but you should see her box.
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Thu Oct 25, 2001 2:22 am

The building deosn't have to be the tellest. It just has to have alot of office space right? So why not build something like the Pentagon? Pentagon is the largest ofice building in the world and has more space than the Empire State Building. I personally will not work in a building past 60 stories. The Liberty Plaza idea for NYC at 60 stories at either 2 or 4 towers isn't a bad idea at all. But again. Who will want to work there. Workers for the largest Tewnats like Morgan Stanley, Marsh, whats left of Cantor Fitgerald, etc will not want to go back there.

you will not see anything on that site aside for a memorial for another 10-15 years. The 1&9 lines have to come back on line and the Marriot, 1 Liberty and 5 World Trade will come back way beofre then. The Path sick a fork in it it's done. The sations after Christopher street are caved in or submerged due to the Hudson river. The Path Sation at the WTC is totally gone. The tunnels leading to it are destroyed.
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Thu Oct 25, 2001 2:41 am

I meant to say Tenants and the fact the Pentagon has more office space than the Empire. Plus it looks alot safer since the entire building didn't come down just a small wing opposed to the entire structure.
"FUIMUS"
 
747-600X
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:54 am

I guess what really pisses me off is all this business about people not wanting to be in a tall building. I hate (and I mean hate) the way cities keep sprawling out and out. To me, it just makes infinite sense to build UP instead of OUT, to stop crushing over land and nature when you have a perfectly viable alternative. I doubt the Pentagon would still be standing at all had two 767s flown straight into it. The 757 that crashed there didn't hit it directly. Architecturally there really is nothing unsafe about skyscrapers compared with almost any other office structure. If you ask how I can say that after watching the WTC towers turn to rubble, read what I just said - no building could withstand what they went through. Also there's the fact that they weren't designed for it. We could easily have made them stronger if we had in mind anything more than mild thunderstorms and wind blasts. Tall buildings are beautiful, proud, and signs of acheivement, and they are so efficient. Each floor of the World Trade Center towers had 1 acre of space, that's about 200 acres of land in just a few acres of Earth... it's remarkable, and I really think it's the answer to getting more people a place to live or work without letting cities sprawl out infinitely. I wish people would understand that. The elevator problem, that it takes half the day just to get to the upper floors, isn't really a problem either. If people actually wanted to, these problems could be overcome. A simple electromagnetic elevator could run all 150 stories in less time, with less noise, than cable or gear lifts. The same magnets that would run the car would hold nets in the shaft's walls, so if they fail and the car falls, they also fail and the nets fall, and the car is caught within 10 or 20 feet.

Well, I guess I don't need to say it again... it is possible, it is practical... people are just too afraid. That seriously annoys me.
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Thu Oct 25, 2001 9:33 am

I doubt the Pentagon would completely fall with 2 767s remember that terrorists only had the AA 757 going to the Pentagon. In most areas the people in the building didn't feel a thing. Maybe if the WTC was stone like the Empire or the Woolworth building then it would still be standing instead of the glass and steel.
"FUIMUS"
 
An-225
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Thu Oct 25, 2001 3:42 pm

Rebuild them bigger, better and stronger. If they don't, that means terrorists were successfull in scaring the population.

Had I been religious I would have said God Bless America Big grin

Alex.

United We Stand.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Guest

RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Fri Oct 26, 2001 6:58 am

The World Trade Center should be rebuilt EXACTLY how it was, if not bigger. If we only build the towers back to 60 stories, keep in mind that the symbol they were will be gone. They'll be only slightly taller than the other buildings around them, no longer a landmark nor will they be very noticable from a distance.  Sad Also, building them at only about half of what they once were will be a victory for the terrorists. they wanted to ruin the symbol of power and stength that the buildings stood for, they hated how tall they were. If we build four short, subby buildings in the WTC's place, then the terrorists have indeed shrunk our Pride. We need to build them exactly how they were, even if some people refuse to work in them. Aloha 737-200
 
cedarjet
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Fri Oct 26, 2001 8:24 am

I'd like to see them back as they were. For me, the WTC was the most impressive, uncompromising, imposing structure/s on earth.

Although I seem to be in a minority on this point, I think the idea of the 'ghost towers' light memorial is poor. It looks scary and sinister and unnecessary. We all know there was two towers there, no need to be reminded by eerie ghostly outlines.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
prebennorholm
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Fri Oct 26, 2001 9:11 am

Please keep in mind that the WTC was already becoming sort of "oldfashioned".

A lot of such people, who worked at the WTC, are already today doing much of their job just as efficiently at a PC on their kitchen table at home. And that trend will explode during the next few years.

Places like the WTC, where a lot of people could be gathered for working together, were state of the art 10 - 20 years ago. But it is very fast becoming an oldfashined way of working. Today the "new WTC" could just as well be spread over all fifty states.

From an architectural point of view the towers will be badly missed. But it is my guess that economics and "new ways of working" will dictate it otherwise.

It is also my guess that in ten years time a lot of large office buildings like the WTC will be more or less empty simply because technology made them impractical as work places.

Regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
VirginA340
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:52 am

Prebennorholm; I agree. with you. I now see why the WTC if built within 10-15 years will be smaller. Economics, managment and $$$ have the final say on everything
"FUIMUS"
 
Trvlr
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RE: World Trade Center Property - What Think You?

Sat Oct 27, 2001 5:45 am

Although I think what Prebennorhelm generally has the right idea, a lot of the assumptions are, I think, going to be untrue. People are still going to need office space. In a building as large as a skyscraper, the size of that office space really doesn't depend on the size of the structure. An office structure the size of the WTC should only be built to capitalize upon the fact that Lower Manhattan is a desirable place to work for both large and small entities, and therefore the size of the building really only has an effect on the economy immediately surrounding the structure.

Aaron G.

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