gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:06 am

...Premier League????
What are your thoughts???? I will post my thoughts, as a Rangers fan by saying that I hope this doesnt happen as I would not want the Scottish game to be killed.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:12 am

They should wait a few seasons before trying to jump because its inevitable that the UEFA Cup will become a European League and they will probably be in it. Besides, they're not that good contrary to what some West of Scotland journalists think (pass the rosy specs Jim, ya Airdrieonians hun!)
 
silverfox
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:17 am

What a lot of people havent considered is the following.
Both clubs leave the SPL. and join the premiership.
What happens if one/both end up at the bottom of the table at end of season. Back to the SPL? Oh yes thay cant wait to tell them to bugger off if that happened. Apply to the Highland League. same again So it will be Relgation to Nationwide Div 1, i can see the hun and the Bhoys doing that . What a fixture Torquay v Rangers!!! etc. No Better to stay a big fish in a little pool than risk that sort of embarrassment. Ok by all means enter the Worthless cup and see if they can cut it, but having seen Scottish Prem on a regular basis i dont thnk they could. Middle table at best. its only the money and the hordes of supporters down south that seems to be the attraction.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:27 am

Axe the CIS and Worthless cups and make it a British Cup??
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:52 am

I agree with Graham, i personally love watching the SPL, we should keep it.

Long live SPL!
 
flyguy1
Posts: 1660
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 1999 9:45 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 10:00 am

The Rangers have already decided to rejoin the NHL, it happened October 1st Smile
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
gkirk
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 5:54 pm

Wrong Rangers Flyguy1  Big grin
Mmm...thought there might have been a few more replies than this?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:20 pm

What makes you think that leaving the SPL would be bad for Scottish football? I mean, it's not as if either side actually decides to play Scots in the first team anyway.

Rangers and Celtic are suffering because of their own shortsightedness. They are so powerful that no other sides have a hope of competing with them. As a result the league is at best a two horse race every single year. When it comes to Europe they are both useless because they generally play such abysmal sides week in and week out, so when they come up against a decent team they don't know what to do. So instead, they want to join the English league.

Well, I am not convinced that the English clubs want them. Not because they wouldn't do well, but precisely because their financial resources mean they probably would. If you were Manchester United (spit), Liverpool, Arsenal or Leeds would you want a pair of brand new competitors joining your league, and reducing your chances of the championship/a place in the European Cup (I refuse to call it the "Champions League")?

Finally, my understanding is that UEFA say that the Scottish clubs CAN join the English league, but that they would be ineligible for any European places, which I would have thought would be too high a price to pay.

Nope, Kirkie old boy, you'll just have to put up with winning the title up there on a monotonously regular basis, causing boredom to everyone and getting knocked out the Big Cup in the first round every year. At least until Celtic and Rangers decide to encourage the other clubs in the country.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
EGFF
Posts: 2082
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 5:53 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 7:40 pm

Keep the shite up North....  Laugh out loud
Just kidding GKirk, i think it would be great with Celtic and Rangers in the Premiership, maybe drop Man Utd and Tottenham in the process  Laugh out loud
EGFf Big grin
All together or not at all
 
gkirk
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:06 pm

Rangers and Celtic dont get embarrassed in Europe any more...we just cant get past christmas but this year...
Celtuic have a great chance of putting Valencia out, after having already defeated Juventus this season, whereas Rangers have a good chance of defeating PSG.
We shall see...
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Thom@s
Posts: 11674
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:11 pm

Sure would make Premier League more interesting, but it would certainly kill Scottish Football league. I say yes.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
EGFF
Posts: 2082
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:28 pm

it would form a sort of Alliance, i think it should go ahead...Go Rangers!
EGFF
All together or not at all
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 8:34 pm

I suppose the other question mark about this would be the possibility of FIFA then insisting on a Great Britain team rather than England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Now for those away from these isles you might think that was a good idea but none of us do.

The English think that they're the best team anyway and don't want the others. Actually, the English have always thought that, even when it wasn't true, e.g. late 1970's. Although Ryan Giggs would solve that left sided problem...

The Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish don't want it either, and never have. And why should they? A Great Britain team dominated by the English is hardly representative.

We should tread carefully, whilst the clubs wouldn't give a stuff about the above scenario (fewer internationals) the rest of us would.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 9:08 pm

Yup, Id never support a UK national football team.  Pissed
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
daks
Posts: 153
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 10:14 pm

Even if the english and scottish fa agree in principal to letting celtic and rangers join the english league , where do you put them .It would'nt exactly be fair to put them straight into the premiership , I think the teams in the the 1st division would have something to say about it .They would be playing a full season and instead of 3 teams being promoted only 1 would be . Most 1st / 2nd / 3rd division fans would say put them into division 3 and let them try to work for promotion each year like every other team . Thats my 2 cents worth anyway !!
 
Delboy
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 10:22 pm


GKirk

Can't get past Xmas this year, don't you mean every year??

The only reason you wouldn't want Celtic/Rangers to join the proposed Phoenix league (dream on if you ever think you have a cat in hells chance of making the Premiership!) is because you would find out what real opposition was week in, week out.

In the SPL you have a 99% chance of making Europe every year, down south things would be very different.

Dream on my friend
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 10:24 pm

No way to a UK team.

Rangers and Celtic have always dominated Scottish football but whats different nowadays is that they think they are competing with the big boys in Europe by splashing out loadsamoney on foreign players - but most of them are well past their sell by dates (exceptions are Reyna, Petrov and Larssen). And both teams are in financial shtook because of it. Rangers in particular, arent anywhere near good enough to compete in the Premiership and the last decent scoring partnership they had was McCoist and Hateley, two guys you'd pay to go and see. Flo is useless, Mols is broken and De Beurre is a total waste of space. And the best move Barry Ferguson could make is to leave and join a club with a good discipline record (like Leeds Hahaha)

Scotty
 
gkirk
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Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Tue Dec 04, 2001 11:47 pm

And Bobo Baldhead isnt a waste of money???  Laugh out loud
He could join Leeds Utd also.
Anyway, Arveladze aint past it, maybe some of the others are but yes...you are correct the last partnership we had which was successful (and most lethal in Britian, if not Europe at the time) was McCoist and Hately. Ah those were the days when we were 1 goal from the European Cup Final, but then we went foreign, and Dutch in particular!  Pissed
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:59 am

Bobo (Row Z) Baldy as he's known.

Kirkie - you are spot on. Where are the guys who want to play for the jerseys and not the cheque book? If RFC were serious about bringing on Scottish players, they would have a dazzling front line of McCann, Miller, Dodds and Johnstone. (Alan, not Maurice!)

And they'd all get a game for Scotland

Celts are as bad. Larssen is good value but where did Simon Donnelly, David Hannah, Tommy Johnson (ok English but still a riot) go? Hartson and Sutton are OK as well but when will the young lads get a game? (and I dont mean Thompson the Tank Engine)

.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:24 am

Yes, Id much rather have Scott Wilson playing instead of Bert Konterman, Maurice Ross instead of Ricksen, Albertz back to Rangers (well he did have the Glasgow accent AND played for the jersey  Smile ) We haent had a great, outstanding defender since the days of Gough. Hendry wasnt given a chance.
Midfield, Ferguson is one who plays (and fights  Big grin ) for the jersey, Reyna is a great player but on his way down south, De Boer??? Nuff said.
Up front Flo, his goals to game ratio is excellent but doesnt work as hard as I would like him to. Caniggia, lots of talent but still past his peak. Arveladze looks like an excellent signing so far.
And the Goalkeeper, well he's shown on numerous occasions that he is world class.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:42 am

OK, then Scotty and GKirk, you both see what's wrong with the game in Scotland and it can't be coincidence that this is the worst Scottish national team in living memory or even of all time. So how do YOU think this should be addressed?

Moving the two principal sides to England won't change anything, the chances are there'll actually be fewer Scots in the sides. So, what do you think should happen?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 2:10 am

A Scotland manager who gives youth a fair chance.
A Rangers manager who gives Scottish players a chance, I would go with what Brian Laudrup says, and if Advocaat steps down as Rangers manager, then give Richard Gough the job. The team has not had a real "Spirit" since Walter Smith left.
Give smaller clubs in Scotland a bigger share of the TV money.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 5:44 am

OF COURSE!!! The Scottish league would have a new champion at last! Rangers and Celtics don't deserve playing in such a league
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 7:10 am

GKirk is right. Fergie didnt win the Premiership and the European Cup with a team of foreigners. He got good foreigners and mixed them with great English, Welsh and Irish talent - Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Keane, alongside Stamm etc...and that helped England as well (OK I admit it - they are an excellent side)

You can buy your way to the top of the Scottish League but you cant buy your way to the top of Europe. btw has anyone noticed a side called Livingston? They are the Cievo of Scotland and may well make the UEFA cup next year, thanks to their mix of Scots and some strong overseas players, like defender Marvin Andrews

Scotty
 
gkirk
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 7:17 am

As long as Livvy take more points of Celtic this season  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 7:25 am

THUD! Banco reads Scotty's last post and faints from shock. Big grin

Yes, Livingston's performance this year is pretty impressive. However, they aren't going to win the thing are they? Therein lies the rub. Unlike in England, France, Germany or Italy you just can't see another team becoming the best in the country.

Of course, the same problem exists in Holland and yet they manage a fairly decent national side (OK, they screwed up this time round) and Ireland don't even have a proper league at all (and they've even got some Irish players now rather than being the England/Scotland B team) so it can't just be because of this.

As a sassenach I have to say I find the whole situation north of the border fairly depressing (I'm talking football here, lest some mischievous sod puts words in my mouth Big grin ) with the whole season resting on whether Celtic or Rangers fail to win every game apart from the Old Firm matches.

I don't even watch the games on Sky anymore (except Celtic-Rangers and the gits put that on pay-per-view) as you know from the start who is going to win.

That this won't change is shown by the crowd averages, 60,000 for the Glasgow clubs and two blokes and a dog for everyone else. With the difference in cashflow even a subsidy wouldn’t make any difference. Perhaps the Atlantic League wasn’t such a bad idea, but of course it would completely screw the rest of the SPL, amongst other things they need the revenue from playing at Ibrox and Parkhead 12 times a season.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:03 am

To me, the SPL looks as open and competetive as it ever has been. Over the last year or so Rangers and Celtic haven't been running away with it, only Celtic Big grin.

Really, they should stay, being in the Vauxhall conference would suck!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 6:19 pm

We get the Old Firm games for free, whether it be on Sky or BBC Scotland  Smile
EGGD, Conference League?? Aint that where Stockport County are heading ????  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Thom@s
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 6:21 pm

Thom@s thinks Martin O Neil should take over Man Utd when Fergie quits.

(Get in chat GKirk)

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 6:50 pm

Banco

We've all found it depressing for years. Even Rangers Chairman David Murray said at the weekend that R & C have killed the game in Scotland. But I cant see them getting to play in the Premiership. Unfortunately, cos I'd love them to bugger off and leave the rest of us to play fitbaw instead of Monopoly

btw Kirkie, I only support the Old Firm (and everyone else) in European ties. My domestic allegiances lie elsewhere!!

Scotty
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 6:53 pm

Scotty, Hibs? Kilmarnock?? Aberdeen (sheep ********)
 Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:43 pm

Oh worse than that!! You're not even in the same league.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:49 pm

Super-Cally?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
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RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:04 pm

....go ballistic Celtic are atrocious. (Note this must be read in accordance with post immediately above!)

One of The Sun's better headlines  Wink/being sarcastic

David/MAN
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:00 am

Mmm...Falkirk, Raith Rovers, Stenhousemuir,Cowdenbeath,Ross County, Queen of the South (my local  Smile ), Stranrare, Berwick Rangers...
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:15 am


The good old "Scottish" town of Berwick  Wink/being sarcastic

David/MAN: 232 and sometimes counting
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:50 am

Could be Partick Thistle Nil. I mean Partick Thistle.

Come on Scotty, put us out of our misery.

Then, if its really bad, we'll put you out of YOUR misery!
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:16 am

He's from Edinburgh, says its not in the SPL so is it...Edinburgh City (East of Scotland League)  Laugh out loud

David_itl, you mean the English town of Gretna (actually Scottish but there team plays in an English league)  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:25 am

Could be that he's a Meadowbank fan, but hasn't been for a while.... Big grin

Can you blame anyone who has a choice selecting England over Scotland?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:31 am

Let them in if you like.
Can't be any worse than watching Southampton struggling against relegation every year, and yo yo teams like Charlton and Bolton bobbing between leagues. I think it would be quite fun.

Didn't Man U play Rangers recently (as in the last few seasons...) - can't remember what the result was.

As for a British team... I doubt it would look much different from the England team. Maybe put Giggsy on the bench.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:39 am

BCal DC10 - I guess I should volunteer for the diplomatic service. I studiously avoided saying your last comment!!
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 696
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 1:51 am

true tho isn't it Banco.
It would all be worth it, just to solve that age old left side problem....
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:18 am

Meadowbank Thistle became Livingston 5 years ago  Smile
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:39 am

I sincerely hope that comment wasn't for me Mr Kirk. I know, that is why I put the post up in the first place.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:58 am

Put what post up???  Big thumbs up
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 5:00 am

Get back to your starship you silly man!
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Stretch 8
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri May 28, 1999 4:00 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 5:47 am

I think the Rangers made a good move getting Lindros from Philly. Also, Pitino had to go from Boston.
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23349
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 6:02 am

Silly Stretch 8.  Pissed  Laugh out loud
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Thu Dec 06, 2001 8:56 am

Boston's in Lincolnshire isn't it?

Never heard of a place called Philly! Big grin
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Should Rangers And Celtic Join The English...

Fri Dec 07, 2001 8:39 am

For the benefit of any Americans who might have strayed into this largely European and therefore meaningful discussion, we are NOT talking about the F......g Texas Rangers, Boston Celtic or any other imposters. Nor are we talking about a game you play with your hands on funny shaped balls.

We are talking about THE Rangers and THE Celtic, established in 1872 and 1888 respectively when you guys were still shagging buffalo, and we are talking REAL football, not the thing you play for six hours without anyone getting near the goal!!

Anyway, well done the Huns, bad luck the Tic. Not many teams beat Valencia 1-0, even at home, in Europe. At least there will be more foreigners than the tourists coming to Glasgow in Spring next year.

Scotty

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