UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:38 am

I do my best to never talk poorly of another one's country. I try my best to be accepting of other cultures. I try my best to see the beauty in every part of the world and every person. I respect other's governements, I try to do all of these things, but for what? Airliners.net is my place to come and relax, read up on things about aviation and the world, but all I hear is people telling me how much my country sucks. How terrible we are, how WE, yes WE are the terrorists, even though we aren't doing the killing. You people try to find every thing you can to link my country to the funding and deployment of terrorism and you try and find every little thing you can to make me feel ashamed of being American. I should hope that you NEVER come here and visit our beautiful home, in fact, don't you ever think about coming here at all.

I am proud to be an American, and proud of the things we stand for. Why? Why, is it that I have to come here and there is always something against America? Why doesn't anyone talk badly about other countries? You know, there are plenty of wrong doings in other countries in Europe, Asia, Africa etc, but you hardly EVER hear an American saying bad things about them. You hardly ever hear us talking poorly of your government. I don't understand why you can constantly belittle us when we have provided the world with so many great things. Boeing, space exploration, coca cola, pizza hut........things that you all take for granted. A lot of them come from HERE! And its not just things, in the US there is so much diversity, and this diversity exists in peace, it is a model for other societies.

Listen, I appreciate your countries. I love to travel to Europe, been to China twice, Japan, South Korea, Switzerland, France, Italy, UK, I just don't understand why you think your countries never do anything wrong and why its always my country's fault. Now, Im not saying we are never wrong, but everyone focuses on the bad, its almost like you think we are satan and the root of all evil in this world. I am a nice person, full of the American ideal, I am not this "great satan" as our good friend calls me and other american citizens.

Honestly, this has gone very far, and it is wearing on me. I don't really like to come to Airliners.net that much anymore, because I am shunned for being an American. I have been at airliners.net for over two years, and this has just gotten out of hand. I believe in freedom of speech, but your comments really offend a lot of people, people who just want to talk to other people around the world, in a lady-like or gentlemanly-like way.

Its funny, because if you look at these discussions, it usually involves an American having to defend himself, and then you turn it around saying we started the fight.........stop guys....please. I love my country, but you make it so hard to even say that I am from America here.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:44 am

Very well said!
 
milldoh
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 11:59 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:50 am

hypocrisy... I tried to start a discussion about this yesterday, albeit in a different manner and low and behold, the post was deleted. I was also called stupid. But I learned that these hypocrites cannot understand and cannot accept criticism, yet when we defend our country we are seen as arrogant Americans. I pity them for it.
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:52 am

Great postage. They should make a stamp with this.  Big grin

 Big thumbs up
 
EGGD
Posts: 11880
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2001 12:01 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:03 am

Although some of your points are not strictly true, and some of your examples flawed, i agree with your mentality.

There is alot of US Bashing going on, i think people don't like the attitude of the people, but as far as i know it is just part of nature being a US citizen to be like that, and many people can't handle that stance.

Regards

Dan
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:12 pm

Dan, you get the

There is alot of US Bashing going on, i think people don't like the attitude of the people, but as far as i know it is just part of nature being a US citizen to be like that, and many people can't handle that stance.

What? That makes no damn sense.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:19 pm

As a daily user of ANet, I have yet to read many posts "bashing' The US. My skin is not so thin as to take umbrage when someone questions US motives or actions. I take it as a serious question. Would you be so kind as to provide examples of what you refer to as "US bashing"?
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:22 pm

IMissPiedmont. In all seriousness, if you are a regular user, there are lots of threads that have bashed the US, the US citizens, ect. More so, it is individualized posts that do much of the damage. I have thick skin, and can take allot, but the minute someone from the US stands up for his country, or defends the people, he gets chastized. Sorry I don't have a memorized list of threads or posts (Many of which end up deleted), but they happen with a regular occurence here.
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:25 pm

I havent read any of those threads from the european users that bash the USA with their "Holier than Thou" attitudes in a long time. Its a waste of time.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:26 pm

Oh, and a word of advice. NEVER EVER say ANYTHING against Isreal.
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:27 pm

Never, ever rever....
 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:28 pm

Unfortunately, all too often for those of us in other countries, the Americans we see are the arrogant ones. Of all the US tourists in Montreal, who am I going to notice. The quiet ones that blend in, or the loud arrogant ones? This creates a steriotype of all Americans being arrogant and creates a disliking for them. As usual, it's the bad ones that ruin it for the rest. It's worst in places like Europe (and here in French Montreal) where it is harder for American's to blend in and the arrogant ones seem even more arrogant.

I can see the point of view of some of the bashing posts, but not against all Americans, just the types that visit somewhere like Tunis and can't understand why no one will speak to them in English, and insist on it!

Anyway, as a Canadian/Britt, I'm sure some people would have the same negative view on me.

Dave
 
AC_A340
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:30 pm

First of all, there are some fallacies in your argument, but I know what you are trying to say, and agree.

I don't understand why you can constantly belittle us when we have provided the world with so many great things. Boeing, space exploration, coca cola, pizza hut

Not necessarily good things btw.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:30 pm

Yeah, and its always the Americans that are loud and arrogant.  Yeah sure
 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:35 pm

It's not always the Americans that are loud and arrogant, but when your in another country and speak English.......Your now American. I constantly being confused as an American, even with my Scottish Accent. That's why I say people probably look at me just as badly.

Dave
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:40 pm

Unfortunately, all too often for those of us in other countries, the Americans we see are the arrogant ones. Of all the US tourists in Montreal, who am I going to notice. The quiet ones that blend in, or the loud arrogant ones?

Ok.. Now... Would I be right in saying that all British people have crooked grills (teeth)? Even though thats my perception from all the British I see, I wouldnt make the judgment saying all British people have crooked teeth. I would keep it to myself, right?

 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:44 pm

Hey pal; The US never got the job done during WW 1 and WW 2 By being quiet and submissive. What about the situations in otyher countries that the US has taken care off in other countries. That is never bought up. I also question Johan; Only once has he stuck up for the US by telling off a user and let me tell you I've seen better tell offs. This one was like a slap on the wrist. When the US users try to defend themselves we are deleted and the antiUS posts from some euro guy is left up for weeks til it is archived!
"FUIMUS"
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:47 pm

KROC and I have approached Johan about this very issue. I thought the same. He replied to me stating that he doesnt take sides. I believe him in a way. Only thing that pisses me off is when these messages are just archived and not deleted. They should be deleted.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 12:55 pm

Imisspiedmont,

If you want an example from today, take a look at the post, American Hypocrites, by ElAL401 for an example of what I'm talking about.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:03 pm

I kind of like the phrase he used, "Sept. 11 is now in the past, get the f*ck over it."

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:16 pm

"Ok.. Now... Would I be right in saying that all British people have crooked grills (teeth)? Even though thats my perception from all the British I see, I wouldnt make the judgment saying all British people have crooked teeth. I would keep it to myself, right?"

I didn't say all Americans were anything. What I said was that a Stariotype (yes, which are bad...just like the bad toothed Britt Stariotype) is what most of the world think of when they think of Americans (as many have not actually been to the US). So the US gets stuck with a bad rap. didn't say that the Stariotype was correct. I have to travel to the US a lot on business and I find the majority of them quite nice.

Dave

 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:36 pm

All those stereotypes like, English have bad teeth, French eat frogs, Germans are Nazi's, Americans are inbreeders, Italians are gangsters..... get over it.
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 1:39 pm

All those stereotypes like, English have bad teeth, French eat frogs, Germans are Nazi's, Americans are inbreeders, Italians are gangsters..... get over it.

Tell your fellow neighbors to get over the fact that not all US citizens are assholes than... How bout them apples. (Apples are good for your teeth BTW.)  Big grin




 
Gunships
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2001 11:32 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 3:53 pm

I am an American. I am proud of my country. I will support my elected leaders.


No amount of bashing will ever take that away from me. It's who I am.

 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 9:44 pm

I'm getting fed up with this. It seems to me fairly straightforward. You have a few people for whom the US can never do any right, and will constantly attack on any pretext. You have rather more people who will ask a genuine question and make a genuine criticism. Unfortunately, they often get labelled along with those who just sling abuse.

Equally, you have a few Americans who will never accept that the US has done any wrong and will simply throw abuse back. You also have those who make a reasonable point defending the US and are simply told to crawl away and die. I note that both sides make heavy use of profanity which just suggests to me there isn't much of an argument to make.

You have rather more Americans who will read through a thread which becomes steadily more vindictive and will understandably become upset by it. Then you have others who read through the responses and become angered by American “arrogance”.

Everyone, please; there are only a very few people on here for whom the US stands for everything that is wrong with the world, and there are also only a few people who will never question anything the US has ever done. Most of us are in the middle but unfortunately these minorities shout very loud and the whole thing degenerates from there.

As a Brit, I find it distressing to see some of the anti-American posts on here, but I also note that some reasonable points are never considered with a very few quick to jump on anything remotely critical. Generally (and again it is very few people) both sides are as bad as each other.

I suspect that the vast majority of us read through half of the threads on this type of subject and then ignore the rest as the arch enemies go through their routine once again. What's the point? They say the same things time and again.

It is also noticeable that many of the threads are of extremely low quality, with (yet again) that minority showing a striking lack of knowledge of history and politics.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to ignore the inflammatory posts. Yes, there are a few people who think America is perfect, and the rest of the world should be grateful to the US for allowing us to live; yes, there are a few people who think that the US are bunch of culture-free idiots who go around the world shooting first and asking questions later. These people are FEW in number.

Why let them wind you up?

I have enormous respect for the US, it has a next to impossible job as the world’s policeman, and as such is viewed as the enemy by some people everywhere there is intervention. If you are prepared to intervene, you will make mistakes. I’m afraid it was always thus.

On a forum like this, you will always find that there are some idiots. Ignore them, you cannot win the argument against them by reasoning with them.

UAL747, do not let the extremists win by imagining that their viewpoints are the norm, you will do the rest of us a disservice. Equally, when someone genuinely questions the actions of your country, examine it. If you disagree, say so and say why. If you see that question being treated as an attack on US sovereignty, ask yourself about the person who replies like that.

You are not perfect, and neither are we. Unfortunately, there are a very few who think that they are.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Scotty
Posts: 1846
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 1999 10:51 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:42 pm

I am a positive freak when it comes to the US and Americans but surely one of the things America stands for is the right to disagree with what America thinks???

Scotty
 
eal401
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:06 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:22 pm

Banging my head against a brick wall here, but never mind.

I have accepted that the way I dealt with my thread was all wrong. I have now said time after time after time, I was making a point and not intending to write off an entire country.

I was slated for that original thread.

I have apologised, sincerely, and repeatedly for some of my comments. I fully realise I have caused offence and it was not my intent to upset people. Hell, I even supported Milldoh and said it was wrong that his thread was deleted!! Clearly, some people have very selective vision when it comes to what they read.

These apologies have been directly rejected by the very people who slated me.

If I can't apologise for it, what the f*ck am I supposed to do? And intelligent, grown up answers to that would be appreciated.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6200
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:45 pm

UAL747, I read that post. A valid point was made. We in the US tend to ignore terrorism and genocide anywhere in the world that doesn't affect our economic well being.
It is hypocrisy when we nash our teeth over terrorism in the middle east or in the US when we ignore places such as Colombia, Chiapas and Rwanda. Yes I know that we have our ever effective DEA in Colombia trying to stamp out Coca farmers.
Not to forget the fact that the US has had for years an internal terrorism problem. We just pretend not to see it. Bombing shurches in the south, segregation, gangs and organized crime come to mind.
The difference is that we can send our young soldiers to fight on foreign soil and get all squishy feeling about stamping out the evil. It's time the american people woke up and starting looking at what is going on here.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
eal401
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:06 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:55 pm

Thank you IMissPiedmont.

That was the EXACT point I originally intended.

You are a star!
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:29 am

I realise the points that are trying to be made, and I take time to consider them, believe me, I don't just jump to conclusions. I don't mind people having an opinion on America; however, I do not like the attitude that comes with it. The way some of you say things is very rude, and unproductive. If you have a genuine concern, ask it politely so that people will not think you are against anothers country. It's all in how you state your post or ask your question. Have some respect for the feelings of the one whom your asking the questions of.

UAL747
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Guest

RE: Kroc

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:42 am

Dan makes no sense! ROFLMAO! Big grin Big grin Big grin Big grin

What was that all about???? Big grin Big grin Big grin

N E way, this is a good post, I agree...

Dammit, I sailed past 1000 posts without sayin a word...  Angry Oh well KROC would have made fun of my ass any way... heres to 1051! Big grin
 
carmy
Posts: 590
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:00 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:53 am

Well I believe that every American has every reason to be proud of the country they live in, just like myself as a Singaporean am awfully proud of my country. But the thing I've experienced more than once here is that whenever I make a comment about something, for example, the question on why America practising double standards by vowing to stop terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq but tolerating Northern Ireland, I get labelled an anti-American, I am accused of hating America, I am told to swear off all American goods, I am told to stop eating McDonalds or something, I am accused of treating America as the "great satan".

Isn't the right to disagree, the right to have contrary opinions, values which America so proudly preaches to the rest of the world? Oddly enough, whenever I question something, I am subject to various sorts of mud slinging and name calling. Some choose to skirt the issue at hand and start calling names instead. Often, I can make nary a comment on anything without being labelled America's greates enemy.
 
EGFF
Posts: 2082
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 5:53 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:56 am

 Big thumbs up
All together or not at all
 
eal401
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:06 pm

RE: UAL747

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:56 am

I appreciate you being upset by this. You say it's all in how things are worded, well, if you really had read all of these threads, you'd have realised that I'd already acknowledged that several times.

People have opinions, some people have strong opinions hence they do not always word things in a way that is acceptable to all.

If that is a problem, then we should all just shut up and go home. You can't dictate what people can or cannot say because it might upset you.

I acknowledged I was wrong and addressed that, but you must accept that not everyone will.
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:22 am

Through all the cross-cultural bashing (remember the US-Australia scrums of about a year ago?) I'd wager that people from many of the world's countries have developed an abstract fondness for each other via this forum. As much as everyone yells, we wind up widening our perspectives and liking each other a little more.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:28 am

You know, I can think of worse things than being called American. This goes to whoever was upset that even with there Scottish accent they were called American.

Leftseat. You know I cannot tollerate Self-Glossin' about your number of posts. Because os this, I have reserved this especially for you.....
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:29 am

Hmm... That shaft has been popping up a lot around here lately, KROC. New toy?  Smile
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:31 am

It's a great tool for well, letting people know how there posts/threads rate, lol. It's all in fun. Damn, this reminds me, I need to get to GRIA and get a Turkey Sandwich!
 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:32 am

There may be worst things to being called an American. But it get's a bit much. I'm always either American, English or Irish. Never what I am. same for New Zealanders who are fead up of hearing .....Are you Ausatralian?

I think you are getting paranoid and overly defensive over all of this.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:33 am

 Sleepy
 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:35 am

so sorry to bore you, I too would be bored if I spent most of my life on this board.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:35 am

I'm tired of being called an A$$hole. That gets a bit much! I'm not an A$$hole, I'm just a dick, but I don't go around crying about it.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:35 am

Dont' hate YHU, its not becoming. By the way, is that an Australian accent you have?
 
RealHigh
Posts: 924
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2000 7:09 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:37 am

I'm tired of being called an A$$hole. That gets a bit much! I'm not an A$$hole, I'm just a dick, but I don't go around crying about it.

LOL! !  Smile/happy/getting dizzy  Laugh out loud

 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:38 am

At what point did I call you an A$$hole? Heck, at what point did I even contridict your point of view. I have agreed with you that most of these anti-US posts are based on untruths of the US.
 
yhu
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:40 am

" By the way, is that an Australian accent you have? "

Thanks, it's nice to have something new once in a while. It's rare I get called an Australian (only once comes to mind).
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:43 am

I got called Dutch once. A guy in a shop in Stuttgart told me "Du sprichst Deutsch wie ein Nederlander."

I thought I sounded Bavarian.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:46 am

YHU, the A$$hole thing was a joke. I was cracking on myself. I never said you called me anything. Keep up.
 
Guest

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:48 am

Someone called me a wannabe before. It hurted my feelings... Someone also told me I was a black man trapped in a white mans body... Geez, does it get worse than that?

 Insane

 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Avoiding Airliners.net.....

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:50 am

Boeing757Fan. Sounds like the last couple of years of High School for me, and a couple of post years as well! But I never cried about it.

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