Hoffa
Topic Author
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Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:09 am

So does the Paris city council really think a cop-killing thug is the equal of Pablo Picasso?

---------------------

U.S. Inmate Named Honorary Parisian

By KIM HOUSEGO, Associated Press Writer

PARIS (AP) - The Paris city council has named U.S. death row inmate Mumia Abu-Jamal, convicted for the 1981 slaying of a police officer, as an honorary citizen of Paris.

The show of solidarity with Abu-Jamal, a former Black Panther and journalist, came in a vote Tuesday in the wake of the Nov. 21 decision by a Philadelphia court, which said it did not have jurisdiction over a request for a new trial.

Jean Vuillermoz, leader of the Communist Party grouping on the council, said the decision by the council follows ``alarming news'' about Abu-Jamal. Vuillermoz said Pablo Picasso was the last person to receive the title, which is symbolic, in 1971.

Abu-Jamal argued that his former lawyers did a poor job and that he has new evidence that could clear him. The death row inmate's federal appeal is pending.

Celebrities, death penalty opponents and foreign politicians have rallied to Abu-Jamal's cause, calling him a political prisoner and saying he was railroaded by a racist justice system.

Human rights groups have scheduled a demonstration in support of Abu-Jamal in front of the U.S. Embassy in Paris on Saturday.

 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:14 am

"Cop Killing Thug"

Wow, you know this for a fact? Better than the millions of people who protest the imprisonment of this man, saying he has been falsly accussed? I wish I had your power of knowledge. I won't even bother with the shaft here.
 
RealHigh
Posts: 924
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:16 am

Mumia is an innocent man.
Mumia Abu-Jamal is sitting on death-row, awaiting punishment for a crime he didn't commit. He was accused and convicted of shooting Daniel Faulkner, a white Philadelphia police officer. On December 9, 1981, Mumia, who was driving a cab at the time, saw Faulkner beating his brother, William Cook, with a flashlight. Apparently William Cook and his friend were pulled over by Faulkner. According to the prosecution Mumia then shot Faulkner three times. However there was a ludicrous amount of information left out of Mumia's trial. Just for starters: A third party emerge from Cook's vehicle, shoot Faulkner and flee from the scene of the crime. Mumia, being a cab driver, carried a registered .38 caliber pistol. However, the bullets found in Faulkner were judged to be that of a .44 caliber. essential questions, such as: was Mumia's gun ever fired, were not even investigated because the court only allowed $150 for Mumia's defense.

You may ask why Mumia's case was handled this way? It seems that the only thing that Mumia ever did "wrong" was to inconvenience the Philadelphia P.D. by investigating (as a journalist) into their practices and activities. This isn't a debate over capital punishment. It is a call to action against Philadelphia political establishment for recklessly using the death penalty to silence Mumia, who was questioning their practices and actions.

 
Hoffa
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:17 am

The balance of the information suggests, at least to me, that he is guilty.

Even if you're right, what has this guy done in his life to merit a status equal to that of Pablo Picasso?
 
Hoffa
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:18 am

Mumia Abu-Jamal is sitting on death-row, awaiting punishment for a crime he didn't commit

Wow what a great piece of evidence that is! Has Mumia's dream team been informed of this?  Big grin
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:20 am

It's all on how people want to perceive you Hoffa. Abul Jamal Mumia has spent how long in prison for something he did not do? Things like that, elevate people to astronomical stature, whether it is warented or not.
 
Guest

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:20 am

Hoffa, maybe you could teach us all a lil something about Mumia.. All I know is that he was accused of a crime. Break it down to us, Hoffa stylee. Tell us what you know.
 
RealHigh
Posts: 924
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:24 am

Hoffa I will not get into a flame war with you over this. This man never had a fair hearing. There has only been ONE judge to preside over this case in it's entirty. That judges nickname is 'The Hanging Judge' Go figure.  Insane
Mumia is nothing more than a political prisoner. The United States doesn't recognize that but we do have people who are locked up for political reasons. He is one of them.
 
Hoffa
Topic Author
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:25 am

I don't have anything specific on Mumia. I'm not an expert on this case but I don't believe he's innocent based on the stuff I've read over the years.

What bugs me is foreign governments and rock bands making this their pet cause simply because the death penalty is involved in this case.

Why don't they just go ahead and make purse-snatchers citizens of Paris too?
 
RealHigh
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:28 am

What bugs me is foreign governments and rock bands making this their pet cause simply because the death penalty is involved in this case.

Oh how dare thes Foreign governments and rock bands care if this man is murdered by the US Government.

How can you equate purse-snatching to murder?
 
RealHigh
Posts: 924
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:17 am

Hoffa, this may help you in your quest for knowlege regarding this case.

http://www.mumia.org/freedom.now/
 
PHLflyer
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 12:11 pm

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:27 pm

I've read and listened to piece after piece concerning this case for the last 10 or more years. As you might guess by my username, I am from PHL which is where Mumia killed one of Philadelphia's finest.

He has been convicted and sentenced to die. He has yet to provide any type of credible evidence to show that he deserves a second trial. He has benefited from lawyers and P.R. people that have been able to draw sympathy and money from many Hollywood and other liberal minded types. He has been accorded many priviledges during his prison stay that other prisoners could only dream of just because of the attention surrounding his case.

As for this topic. It pains me to hear that the city I love so much as made Mumia an honorary citizen. I lived in Paris for almost a year, (France for 2 years) and have visited several times since. Oh well, c'est la vie!
 
Guest

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:33 pm

I am from PHL which is where Mumia killed one of Philadelphia's finest.

So, you have already made up your mind? Why? Was your evidence that he did this crime credible?


 
PHLflyer
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 12:11 pm

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 12:44 pm

There are only a small handful of people that have heard all the evidence. A judge, a jury and many lawyers. The jury found him guilty and sentenced him to death. The appeals courts have not been presented any eveidence that would make a retrial necessary.

I trust the legal system in this country as well as the appeals process. It is not my job nor is it my position to be able to make an educated reply as to wether he is guilty or innocent without being privy to the entire trial transcript.

What is undisputable is that according to the legal system of the Commmonwealth of Pennsylvania he has been tried, convicted and sentenced but the sentence has not yet been fullfilled.

Wether I think he is innocent or guilty has no bearing on the reality of this case. This man should pay for his crime and not continue wasting the money of the taxpayers of Pennsylvania.
 
sebolino
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 9:42 pm

<< Mumia, being a cab driver, carried a registered .38 caliber pistol. However, the bullets found in Faulkner were judged to be that of a .44 caliber. essential questions, such as: was Mumia's gun ever fired, were not even investigated because the court only allowed $150 for Mumia's defense. >>


I was flamed when I said it was better to be white in the Democratic USA. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.
 
cfalk
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:00 pm

Since when is public opinion to decide whether a person is guilty or not? He was tried and found guilty in a country where numerous appeals become automatic if a death sentence is handed down. If the original judge (or jury) had in any way acted improperly in terms of inclusion of evidence, procedure, etc., the various appeals courts (presided by different judges) would have quickly ordered a new trial, if not actually reversing judgement. The fact that they have not indicates very strongly that there are very serious issues with the credibility of the "evidence" put forth in that website RealHigh posted.

All these people supporting this guy have only heard one side of the story, carefully "spun" to remove any evidence of guilt which obviously was there in court. The Jury heard all the relevant details, and the appeals judges have agreed that all was done correctly.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
sebolino
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:20 pm

Remember that judges are elected in the US (or am I wrong ?).
It's incredible ! Of course they want to please their electors.
 
cfalk
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:35 pm

Some local judges are elected, but most others and all federal judges I believe are appointed, with the appropriate screening by legislatures. (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:57 pm

Nope you are correct.

Most judges are appointed. Some are for life, others face compentecy votes.

There are some local elected judges.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 11:03 pm

On a general point, I hardly think many of the people on here are in a position to criticise the US justice system. Of course it isn't perfect, what system could be, but it is better than most.

That's not to say there aren't problems, the disproportionate number of ethnic minorities on Death Row is something the US should really look at, but mistakes happen everywhere. Personally, I have a problem with the death penalty because mistakes can't be rectified, but many disagree, and I respect that.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 11:04 pm

Banco...The answer to that is simple....KILL MORE WHITES!!!

Besides thinking about it....I can't think of a single example of a serial killer who was a member of a "minority"
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
PHLflyer
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 12:11 pm

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Thu Dec 06, 2001 11:45 pm

I think Eddie Murphy sang it best in one of his Saturday Night Live skits, "Kill da white people".
 
sebolino
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Fri Dec 07, 2001 5:54 pm

Banco,

Of course the justice in US is better than in 90 % of other countries. But for the richer country in the world which claims to be so democratic and to respect so much the freedom of the citizens, people criticises more, and that sounds fair.
I remember stories of black people being kicked on the ground by cops (which were filmed) and other things not so nice.
I personnaly think that some countries have less drawbacks in their justice (but OK, it's only a few countries).
And like you, I have a BIG problem with death penalty which looks more like revenge than like justice to me. I think (I'm not 100% sure) that the US are the last developped country to have the death penalty.
 
Guest

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:50 pm

"Of course the justice in US is better than in 90 % of other countries. But for the richer country in the world which claims to be so democratic and to respect so much the freedom of the citizens, people criticises more, and that sounds fair.
I remember stories of black people being kicked on the ground by cops (which were filmed) and other things not so nice.
I personnaly think that some countries have less drawbacks in their justice (but OK, it's only a few countries).
And like you, I have a BIG problem with death penalty which looks more like revenge than like justice to me. I think (I'm not 100% sure) that the US are the last developped country to have the death penalty."

Every country has it's own racial problems, look at France for example! Please remember the conflict which occured in Paris with Algerians. BTW, what about Europe's neo-nazi problems? I remember walking through Strasbourg this summer and seeing a swastika tagged on a wall in an alley. And I am not going to get into my personal opinions about the death penalty, but seeing your European, I am not suprised.

-Tom
 
Banco
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RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:43 pm

Tom, the death penalty is a separate issue, which is why I stated that I respect others have a different viewpoint. However, you are absolutely correct to say that each country has its own problems. That is why I think it is incorrect to criticise the US justice system. It has it's faults, but so do we all.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
PHLflyer
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 12:11 pm

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:53 pm

Sebolino:

There are several situations caught on video where blacks and whites have been kicked and beaten in the course of arrest. They are criminals that were fleeing the police as to not be arrested. If someone is resisting arrest, you have to use extreme force. I would rather have a beaten and injured criminal than a injured or dead officer.

Personally, I don't know why they can't use some sort of tranquillizer gun on someone who is fleeing arrest. It seems to take only a few moments when they use it on Rhino in nature documentaries.
 
L-188
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Mumia A "citizen Of Paris"?

Sat Dec 08, 2001 12:01 am

Phlflyer...

What they don't show is the 15 to 30 minutes it takes for the traquilizer to take effect.

They edit that part out of those nature documenteries.

I got to see them do tagging a couple of times on Brown Bears and when they are waiting for the drug to take effect, often that is one of the most dangerous times to be around the animal. That shot hurts and it wants to lash out at something, preferably whoever darted it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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