heavymetal
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Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:50 am

From Reuters:

DUBAI (Reuters) - Washington's allies were quick to judge the latest videotape of Osama bin Laden to be final proof of his guilt on Thursday, but in the Arab world many dismissed the footage as false propaganda.

While some senior Arab officials declared themselves convinced, it was harder to find ordinary citizens who did and most governments in the region maintained silence on the issue.

``I think this recording is forged ... I don't believe this tape is authentic,'' said Sheikh Mohammad Saleh, a Saudi cleric.

Ali, a Saudi civil servant, concurred. ``The picture is real but the voice is not. It could be a voice over,'' he said. He had to watch the videotape on a regional satellite station as Saudi state television failed to broadcast it.

``Do the Americans really think the world is that stupid to think that they would believe that this tape is evidence?'' asked Abdul Latif Arabiat, head of Jordan's mainstream Islamist party the Islamic Action Front.

``In my view this tape has been fabricated by Washington to condemn bin Laden and conceal America's ugly crimes in Afghanistan,'' said Yousef Abdul Hamid, an Amman taxi driver.

A less skeptical Bahraini man said: ``If the recording was real, it only adds that bin Laden was aware of the incident but not necessarily that he had planned it.''

``It is possible that another group was behind it but had informed bin Laden about their plan,'' he concluded from the muffled tape, which was accompanied by an official U.S. translation which some Arabs described as inaccurate.

Many in the Islamic world choose to believe theories that the September 11 attacks were a plot by Israeli secret services to discredit Muslims.

----

To be fair, the Emirates made it officially clear that the UAE's position is the tape proves bin Laden's guilt... and I'm certain there are a great number of Arabs who know the guy's hands are filthy with this murder.

Still, sad to see that in a large part of the Middle East a truly abomnidable scumbag (who as we've seen kills Muslims with apparent ease, and orders his legions to their death as he cowers alive & well in caves) is still viewed as some heroic Pied Piper taking Islam mightily into the future. That notion is simply a pile of powdered camel s**t.
 
I Like To Fly
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:23 am

To be honest, I don't care what those people believe. They can think what they want, we know the tape is authentic and that Bin Laden is a worthless piece of garbage that will be rotting in hell soon. I mean really... who cares? They can go chant in their streets that America sucks all day long, I know my street is a lot better than there's anyway. If they decide to get violent and blow up parts of our country then they can expect to see our wonderful military up close. Just my $.02. Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
KROC
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 8:25 am

I feel somewhere along the lines of ILikeToFly. With the delay of showing the tape, I personally thought about the fact the tape could be doctored, but I also understand the tape had to be deciphered as well. I believe in the tape, and as for the "Arab World" that disagrees, I will do something different for a change, and not say anything, because I don't think I could comment, and remain civil.
 
McRingRing
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:08 am

There really was no point in releasing the tape. Those who know he is guilty will continue to believe so and those who still think this was some kind of hoax by the US so we could have a reason to bomb Afghanistan will say the tape was fake. The tape did nothing for me. I knew Osama was a dirtbag before I saw him laughing about the thousands of people who were killed.

Isn't it odd that Mohammed Atta's father still claims his son had no part in this. I guess his son is just on "vacation." Funny almost...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38654-2001Dec13.html

The father, Mohamed al-Amir al-Sayed Awad Atta, said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press that he had not seen the tape, but declared it a "farce. All this is a forgery, a fabrication!"

"The whole world has been saying this name (Mohammed Atta). Where did bin Laden get the name from? Bin Laden got it from America," Atta said.

"America is the land of aberration and forgery," the father said, shouting "damn America!" before abruptly hanging up.

B==============) ~~~~
 
L-188
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:21 am

Denial......I guess it just isn't a river in Egypt anymore is it.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Hepkat
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:26 am

Ok, I have to admit, when I first heard about this tape, I was very skeptical. CNN just showed it, in most of its entirety, and I have to say, I am 90% convinced it is real.

Let me explain. I spent three years living with my aunt, who is a detective, and I guess during that time I learned a lot from her. Things just don't happen coincidentally like this. Trust me. It sounds just too good to be true. What are the possibilties that we would find a tape which has Osama confessing to every single charge we have against him, and so freely? I've watched it over and over again, and although I believe it's most likely genuine, a part of me cannot believe the coincidental nature of it. And, why is the voice out of sync with the video? It looks like it was recorded using modern equipment, but I've never heard of a camcorder recording the voice out of sync with the picture, maybe one from the seventies, but surely not a modern piece of equipment. And I guess the most burning question of all is, why would Osama allow himself to videotaped, knowing the enormous bounty on his head? Ego perhaps? It just doesn't add up. I know I'll probably get flamed for this post, but I'm simply trying to think objectively while remaining detached from the outcome. Although I have to say, if it is a fake, it's a damn good one!

I would be interested in seeing a voice spectrum analysis of this, as well as having the shadows on the video analyzed.

Overall, I found the contents most disgusting. Anyone who would commission such a massacre, and delight in the results deserves to pay extraordinary retribution.
 
McRingRing
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:36 am

I think the sound is bad for 2 reasons.

1. The equipment is shit: bad camera, bad audio, bad tape.
2. The microphones on such camcorders are AWFUL. Microphones on most cameras are bad, even the highest end ones. The guy with the camera was sitting in a medium sized room and he wasn't very close to bin Laden, et al. There were also other people in the room who were not on camera and the noise from them further distorted the sound.

I really don't think bin Laden cared about being taped. He was guilty and he knew it. He knew that we knew it. This videotape would make no difference no matter who found it.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. I don't think this tape changes anything.
B==============) ~~~~
 
I Like To Fly
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:37 am

Hepkat, if I wasn't so lazy & busy I would argue most of your post... but I am both lazy & busy so I will just point out something I found amusing:

It looks like it was recorded using modern equipment...

Gee, that makes sense! You go on & on about the poor quality but it still "looks" like it was on modern equipment. Where do you get "looks"??? I don't recall a shot pointed in a mirror where you could see the camera. My guess is it was shitty equipment that has been sitting around a desert for years on equal quality tape... what do you expect? And it is also a well known fact Bin Laden likes to be video taped. I do agree the timing is almost too good, but you can't convince me it's a fake.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:44 am

Im gonna side with KROC, and not say anything. Otherwise whatever I would say, will get me kicked off this forum.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
lehpron
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:45 am

"...still viewed as some heroic Pied Piper taking Islam mightily into the future."

Heavymetal, please explain how you came to this conclusion, from this article, for some reason, I did not.

Separately, I wonder why they do not want to release this tape to the public, even if it is authentic? Should they be so concerned we all drew different conclusions?

lehpron
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
McRingRing
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:47 am

They DID release the tape... TODAY.  Sleepy
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CPDC10-30
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:50 am

The CBC has just interviewed some of the translators, and there is no way it was modified. They said there was no disagreement between them on the content of the tape. Case in point is how it was broadcast in its exact form, without being edited to skip past irrelevant parts.
 
McRingRing
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 11:54 am

No disagreement? I'm sorry, but I disagree  Big grin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39995-2001Dec13.html
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clipperhawaii
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 12:46 pm

These people are just living in the 13th century. What do you expect? Unfortunatly like cockroaches, they will be with us till the end of time. (Where is my shoe?)
Aloha my friends! ClipperHawaii
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airlinelover
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 3:32 pm

I am just curious as to WHY they (UBL and friends) had the tape made in the first place.. Just seems stupid, considering the possible RISKS..

chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
ryanb741
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:13 pm

'Arab World' says it is a fake?

Nonsense - a couple of Arabs said it was a fake, that's all. Some French people, a few Canadians, a couple of Brits and half a dozen Russians also probably think its forged!

Please stop using every opportunity to demonise the Islamic world.
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Guest

RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 5:23 pm

Surely, an educated guy like you Ryan knows that Arab and "Islamic" are not synonymous with one another.

admit that your wrong and I might forgive you.
 
LY744
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Hepkat

Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:23 pm

Glad to hear that you and your aunt (I thought it was your grandma, for some reason) are finally satisfied. It's about time you realized what the rest of the world knew three months ago. "Thinking objectively"....  Insane

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
heavymetal
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:21 pm

Lehpron,

If I indicated that I came to that conclusion from just this article (which I don't think I did but alas), I erred. One need only to visit even "moderate" Middle Eastern news websites to see what kid gloves are being used on bin Laden, and to understand why. Because the statement I made is correct.

I'll also add, in case you go there which I think you might, that I'm not defending the status quo in Middle Eastern countries. Does this region NEED a dynamic visionary to pull it out of repression and abuse? Sure. The fat cat shieks and princes with their fleets of casino-bound 747s are as much to blame for this imbicilic notion on the Arab Street as bin Laden is. But he is clearly insane, clearly homicidal and clearly a despot in the mold of no less than a certain starving artist from Vienna. A large chunk of the Muslim world mistakes his vision for the future as the right one....sadly, because at least he has a vision, unlike the contented ruling class too blind (or frightened) to offer one.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:29 pm

'Arab World' says it is a fake?

Nonsense - a couple of Arabs said it was a fake, that's all. Some French people, a few Canadians, a couple of Brits and half a dozen Russians also probably think its forged!

Please stop using every opportunity to demonise the Islamic world.


More than just " a couple of Arabs...", Ryan. You know that and I know that. I watched interviews yesterday with dozens upon dozens of people living in the Middle East, and, with few exceptions, everyone of them didn't think the tape was real, or was somehow doctored. Does that represent ALL people in the Middle East? Of course not. But you'll find, no doubt, that the majority of Arabs/Muslims around the world will not believe the tape is legitimate. Some because they adore this mutt bin Laden, some simply because of a lifetime of distrust of the American goverment.

Please stop using every opportunity to apologize for the Islamic world.
 
go canada!
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 3:07 am

Islam=arab? since when?

I notice our pro-taliban, pro-bin laden pro-death of israel friends have been keping quite, especially air male who i remember rightl stated that the attack was the israeli secret service!
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
ryanb741
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 4:09 am

Alpha 1.

Of course the Western media would NEVER misrepresent a story to sell papers, would it?  Big grin

Stop trying to make all Muslims your enemy.

Still, once this whole Bin Laden thing blows over you will probably be on at the Chinese.....
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Guest

RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 6:49 am

frat boy  Confused
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 7:06 am

even if the tape is fake... we all know he did it.
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
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sebolino
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 10:46 pm

I have no idea if it's fake or not, but please give your reasons to be so sure it's not.
BinLaden dosen't look that stupid to "forget" a tape with him talking about the attacks, and in the same time hiding and denying his responsibility.
And Twa902fly, nearly the same question: How can you be so sure it's him (and only him) ?
 
L-188
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:00 pm

All we know is that the tape was found in a house in Kandahar.

It doesn't mean it was in Binnies posession.

Besides if you had to leave someplace in a hurry, who knows what you would forget to pack!
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Sat Dec 15, 2001 11:44 pm

He's not stupid, Sebolino, you are correct in that assertion. I think he's got like a Master's Degree in Engineering. But you're talking also about a monumental ego here as well, who virtually thinks he's a god or something, with life and death power over a large number of people.

Plus the fact that it's possible that he wasn't even in possession of this tape to begin with-that a subordinate was in possession of it, and, in the haste to flee American and Alliance attacks, the tape was forgotten in the confusion of the moment.
 
delta-flyer
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RE: Surprise! Arab World Says Tape A Fake

Mon Dec 17, 2001 3:50 am

Whether the tape is fake or not does not matter. To some, it is fake, regardless of any evidence that it is real. To others, the opposite is true. The point is, everyone by now has made up their minds who is at fault and who is not, and facts will not change a thing.

Am I right?

Pete
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