jm-airbus320
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You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 9:56 am

Many people claim to believe in god but when it matters most for them to show this belief they shy away from doing so. Does that still make them a believer? And do you ever find yourself doing it? I am guilty of this sometimes.

Jm-airbus320
 
MalibuAir
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RE: You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:10 am

I find myself calling myself a believer, yet MOST of my actions dont denote that. I know lots of people who live that way. But hey, I go to Church every Sunday, and as for forgivness for what I have done in the week. So I guess we'll see how well that works out in the end.
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 10:29 am

Based on your parameters, how do I "show" my belief?

Not flaming or anything, just curious. Some people show their beliefs by sitting through three hours of hymns and hosannas in a church. Some people like me show it by trying (not always succeeding but trying) to respect all that I think God has created....people, places, ideas.
 
JetService
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RE: You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 11:41 am

Believing in God and participating in religious ceremonies are two different things. Even if you never attend mass, you can still believe in God. You're still a 'believer'.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 12:08 pm

JetService hit it right on the head! Thank you for clearing that up. I am Christian, but I am NOT religious. My lifestyle reflects my Christianity. I would never shy away from it. My profile says it all! Big thumbs up
 
An-225
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RE: You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 2:59 pm

My lifestyle reflects my atheism. But I still respect religion, as long as it does not interfere with my life.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
Guest

RE: You And God

Sun Dec 16, 2001 3:24 pm

The argument usually goes something like this
a.) The church is full of sinners
b.) All hypocrites are sinners
therfore the church is full of hypocrites.
The problem with this syllogism is the logical fallacy of the undistributed middle term. Let me illustrate it this way:

a.) The church is full of sinners
b.) All murderers are sinners
therfore the church is full of murderers.

The unspoken assumption is that the Chrisitian is one who claims he doesn't sin. In reality it is just the opposite. As a matter of fact the church is the only institution where one must publicly claim that he is a sinner in order to become a member. The definition of hypocrite is one who claims to be free of faults that he practices covertly. So while the church does have some hypocrites, it is not as "full" of them as some would suggest. Anyway that is my take on it.
I think Chrisitains should live according to their beliefs. If you acknowledge the existence of God and don't give a hoot for what he says, then how does that make you a believer? It's one thing to acknowledge His existence, it is entirely another to acknowledge his authority as God.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: You And God

Mon Dec 17, 2001 1:34 pm

i believe in "God" as i see him/her. as an ordained minister in an obscure "religion" i've found something
that works for me. i don't deny it, but most people wouldn't understand. so f*ck 'em.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
JetService
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RE: You And God

Mon Dec 17, 2001 1:56 pm

Toadpipe, are you saying all hypocrites and murderers go to church or everyone that goes to church is a hypocrite and murderer?  Confused
"Shaddap you!"
 
Guest

RE: You And God

Mon Dec 17, 2001 4:39 pm

I'm saying that when people claim the church is full of hypocrites, they are using an erroneous definition of the term hypocrite. The church is full of sinners not hypocrites. The church does have some hypocrites for sure, and there presence tends to stick out like a sore thumb to people who are looking for a reason to deride the church. The church never made a claim to be free of hypocrites, as a matter of fact it guarantees that there will always be some hypocrites in the church. Turn on any tv and you will find some evangelist in a 5000$ suit milking poeple for money and you will see you don't have to look far to find them. Just like any other organization you will always have hypocrites. I work with them, you work with them, chances are you probably are even related to one or two of them. We almost never hear someone say ," Hey, I know I'm a liar, but at least I'm honest about it." It's always far easier to cover it up with "I made a mistake." "I lied" is something very hard to say. Lying is an essential characteristic of a hypocrite, his whole life is a lie. He claims to be free of faults that he practices covertly. Does that explain it better?
 
RoyalDutch
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RE: You And God

Wed Dec 19, 2001 12:24 am

Toadpipe hit it right on the head...also, about beliving in God...the Bible says that even demons belive that God exists (James 2:19), but for a person to be a true Christian (A follower of Jesus Christ), he/she must belive that Christ dies for his/her sins, admit that he IS a sinner (like toadpipe said), and if he/she truely belives this, it should bring about a true change in their life in regard to the way they act.
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Wed Dec 19, 2001 1:21 am

I consider myself Christian, but I fear the word of late has been hijacked by commerce and politics.....even to me, it conjurs up images of fundamentalist suburbanites driving to the nearest 6000 seat mega-church in their bumper sticker and fish covered minivan, eager to slap down cold hard cash for the next piece of junk with "What Would Jesus Do" printed on it.

I couldn't explain my relationship with God or my love of the words of Jesus(among others mind you) to anyone...and I can't actually fathom why they'd care to begin with. I consider trying to encapsulate what Christ is, or was, or whatever, into a bumper sticker slogan or goofy fish emblem nothing more than blasphemy.

I so much want to ask some of these Christians with a big "C" and all the books and movies to prove it would they still be Christian if they were the only person left on Earth? And if so, why would they be? Because it brings peace of mind? Nah. Hell, James Taylor songs bring peace of mind, aromatherapy candles from Pier One Imports soothe the mind and body. I'd simply say if they were the last soul on Earth, with no one to talk, shop or spend 60 bucks to go to Promise Keepers with, how would they worship Christ? How? And why aren't they doing it THAT way right now?
 
redngold
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RE: You And God

Thu Dec 20, 2001 7:30 am

It is not works that make your salvation, but faith.

However, your faith is reflected in the works you do.

The Bible says that we will be rewarded in Heaven according to our works. However, only those who have faith go to Heaven. I'm not sure what the "rewards" will be considering that Heaven will be awesome in itself.

redngold
Up, up and away!
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Thu Dec 20, 2001 7:50 am

Redngold, you hit on the very heart of Faith...."I'm Not Sure"

Yes! "I'm not sure....but for me , it works."

Would that there were a billion more of you.
 
Jj
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RE: You And God

Thu Dec 20, 2001 11:33 am


I can not recall any actions done by miself to show I'm a believer. However, I consider myself one of those, because I believe in god. I'm not a defined religion, because I like some things of catolics and some fro the luterans... I should be mormon as I live in Salt Lake City  Smile

jj
 
Notar520AC
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RE: You And God

Fri Dec 21, 2001 12:54 pm

Me and my family believes in God, but we don't go overboard devoting our whole lives to prayer and such.
BMW - The Ultimate Driving Machine
 
tguman
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RE: You And God

Fri Dec 21, 2001 2:28 pm

There is one bumper sticker that helps put the Christians as perfect thing to rest. "Christians arent perfect, just FORGIVEN!" We are human. In the Bible it says that humanity is sinful. That is why we need a savior. Someone to wash our sins away. Hope this makes sense.
By the way, the best way to know who is a Christian, look at their "fruit"*. Just as you can tell a tree by it fruit, you can tell a Christian by his/her "fruit"*
*fruit- what we as Christians (believers) give to the world.
- people that come to a saving knowledge and relationship with Christ.

TGUMAN

P.S. Christianity is not a religion but a relationship!
Life is a Mine Field.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: You And God

Fri Dec 21, 2001 4:54 pm

I do believe in a god (without the capital G) but not one that most conventionally religious people would understand. So its easier to call myself agnostic.
 
Guest

RE: You And God

Fri Dec 21, 2001 5:02 pm

It wouldn't be as easy if you knew the latin equivelant. But I will admit, agnostic sounds far more refined than ignoramous. I'm not calling you that, that is just what the latin equivelant is.
 
EmiratesLover
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RE: You And God

Fri Dec 21, 2001 8:25 pm

I believe in God, and I pray everynow and again...I like going to church, but I must confess I have a tendency to pray most of all when I am sad or upset or under stress.But I believe that prayer and belief in God is a wonderful source of inner peace and tranquility and sence of direction.
 
sleekjet
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 5:15 am

I take a lot of comfort in Eph. 2:8 - being "saved by grace through faith". By believing in Christ as my Saviour, I don't kick back and rest on the assurance that I'm saved. Quite the opposite. Since He did all that for me, I can't help but try to show that same love toward my fellow man. In some cases, that may mean speaking to them about Christ...in others, I just try to help them out in some physical, tangible way. I also know that if my Christian lifestyle doesn't meet resistance, I'm probably not living it right.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
America West
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 7:43 am

Yes, I believe in God.

As far as going to church....

I hate to go to church with my grandmother because it is so FAKE!! She attends a black Baptist church, and I hate it because the pastor is the biggest pimp I've ever seen in my life, church starts at 10:00am and doesn't let out until 1:00pm, and then they ask you to come back for a continuation of the morning service at 5:00pm. God only knows when they'll let you out after that. It also seems like one big fashion contest. You should see some of the things that people wear. Its unbelievable! The bible says "come as you are," but you'll get some strange looks if you show up with a pair of tennis shoes on. It is also a breeding ground for rumors: "Oh, I heard that so and so did such and such, and did you hear about Sister Jenkins . . .?" bla, bla, bla. Another thing that they do is take up 6 collections!! I absolutely refuse to give over $3.00. I don't know where that money is going. I usually give $1.00 and that's it. There is not a black church in the world that doesn't have a "building fund." They have been giving to that building fund since I was born and they haven't changed a damn thing in that church!

I don't feel that I need to go to church to prove to other people that I believe in God. I don't go to church every Sunday, but when I do, I go because I want to, not because somebody else wants me to.
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 8:18 am

A common theme here by some is you can't just say you believe in God and that's it.

Yes. You can.

Sleekjet, you make a noble admission that loving your fellow man is a payback of sorts for Christ's sacrifice. Fine, works for ya'. Understand that some of us think love and respect for each other was here long before Jesus walked the Earth...he just managed to frame it so inspirationally.

Later, you say I know that if my Christian lifestyle doesn't meet resistance, I'm probably not living it right. This is a theme I see a lot....if there isn't conflict, something's wrong. For me, I feel spiritually at my best when there IS NO conflict. I believe the life and example of Christ as based on the New Testament backs me up on this. But you say tomato, I say tomahto. The sad thing is in many religious people the conflict you indicate is neccessary for proper Faith boils over into contempt.

One more thing...why is it that there's such a "victim" factor among certain groups of Christians in this day and age? Some of them act like Christianity is this great new self-help theory that came out of some wacky college professor in the 50s, and darn it, people just aren't giving it a chance!......"we Christians", "are you a (gasp) Christian!?"....listen to some of the well known politicians and evangelists, and you'd think Christians in the suburbs are still in danger of ugly meetings with lions. Guys, you won. Greece, Rome, Charlemagne, Western Civilization. Property of Jesus. When you play the victim act, it's trite. When you play the "There's this guy named Jesus" act, it's tacky.

The life and example of Christ sells itself. The mystery of Christ intrigues without billboards, bracelets or bumper stickers.
 
skyhawk
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 8:24 am

To truly be a Christian, one must acknowledge that Jesus Christ is their Lord and
Savior. Not just believing in God will put you in that group, afterall Jews also believe in God, just not in Jesus as the Savior of the world. And yes, there are hypocrites in churches, but aren't you going to find them everywhere? Personally I don't worry about those in my church who are hypocritical, they are the ones that will have to deal with God on Judgement Day. I am certainly not saying that I am without fault, I am loaded with them, but I do try continually to improve myself in God's eyes and to act in a way that is pleasing to Him.
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 8:30 am

Great post, Skyhawk but one question...

To truly be a Christian, one must acknowledge that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.

If they never told another soul that they had, would they be Christian?
 
sleekjet
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2001 1:35 am

RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 8:44 am

Heavymetal, you imply that Christ's example was a life without conflict. I don't think so. He was in constant danger, constant confrontation. All because he was a radical, yet without sin. If today I practice pure Christianity and abstain from worldly ways, I HAVE to meet resistance. People will notice that I don't go to bars or that I've stayed with my wife for 28 years or that I can't go to that function because I'd rather be in church. And, either to my face or behind my back, they will talk. The Bible says we are to "count it all joy" when we run into trouble. I just hope I'm living a life that causes some trouble.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 9:14 am

Well answered. It was not meant to imply Christ lived without confrontation...he most certainly did. Jesus "caused trouble" all right, but was that his chief intention? Trouble was an ignorant reaction to how he chose to live his life, and he knew it would come. There's a difference between confidence and belligerence.

We differ on terms like "pure Christianity" & "worldy ways", I'm sure. Yet you outline wonderfully the differences the lessons of Christ and how each of us uses them so differently. For you, the fact that your faith is insulation from lifeless gossips with little better to do with their time brings comfort to you. For me, it doesn't take Jesus to teach me how to roll my eyes and let 'em talk....wow! do I have better things to worry about than them, as I'm sure you do.

You credit making use of the words of Christ for 28 years of having someone to go home to. Well done. My Mom & Dad are going on 33 years. They never married. Not in a church. Not in a courthouse, nowhere. Yet we say a little prayer over dinner whenever I'm home. One of gratitude for what we have, in mind, body and life.

So you see whats appears so clear to one looks so amazingly different to another. That's why I think Jesus was a genius, and his words divine.

That's also why I just don't get a lot of Christianity in its' present form, so obssessed with stadiums and superchurches. When the roar of Christian fervor in one's soul drowns out the whispers of Christ himself....what's the point?
 
skyhawk
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat May 19, 2001 12:23 pm

RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 10:06 am

Two points here, both to Heavymetal. #1-If for some reason you never had another living soul to tell that you were a Christian and that you had give your life to Jesus Christ, yes you would still be a Christian in every way because the one that matters would know. #2-You say your parents have been together for 33 years yet have never married right? In the eyes of God they are "married" because they have given themselves to each other. There is no place in the Bible where there is a marriage ceremony. Even Mary and Joseph were not married by our standards. They were promised to each other, that's it. And Joseph almost walked out on her because he thought she had been with another man and therefore not right for him. All a formal marriage today is, is that piece of paper. Like I said before, in the eyes of God they have had 33 years of marriage.
 
heavymetal
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RE: You And God

Sat Dec 22, 2001 10:10 am

Thanks, man....you and I agree on everything. "The One that matters...knows." I could pontificate for eons and not come up with something more righteous than that.

Have a peaceful and happy Christmas and a great year #29 with your lady.

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