wardialer
Posts: 1141
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 1:08 pm

Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 9:34 am

Who thinks this war on terrorism is a bad idea? Well it is, because we will get the whole world fighting each other like Pakistan and India. It will be a like a domino effect slowly by slowly. Bush made a very terrible mistake!!!!
 
VirginA340
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 9:42 am

Hey pal; If we didn't take action than people like Osama would strike again I only hope Saddam and Gadahfi are next. If we didn't take action like Clinton we would get more attack and the people of Afghan would continue to suffer under the Taliban. now the people of Afghan has a lasting peace! After PA 103, Khobar Towers, USS Cole and 2 US Ebassies were blown up we have had enough. I wish the war started sooner. I'd be willing to join should there be a draft!

Got it?

India and Pakistan has been fighting since 1947. There is nothing special about the war. It is the same damn thing over the full control state of Kashmeir which India and Pakistan are still fighing over. Right now both coutries have half each but Pakistan wants the whole thing. India accuses Pakistan of being soft on terrorism. Stop playing doom and watch the news kid!

You still haven't given a good reason. I just struck down your argument.

"FUIMUS"
 
flight152
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 9:49 am

Wardialer

If it was up to you, we would just let all this terrorism go on and let it go unnoticed without any stop to it...yeah that is a good idea. Why don't we just let them contine and hide while not doing anything.  Insane
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:01 am

Get a little clue about Geo-political events before spouting off next time, ok?

The current flare-up between Pakistan and India isn't related to Bush's war on terror, as you like to put it (I'd rather call it Osama's Big Mistake, not Bush's War On Terror). India and Pakistan have been on the edge for years now, and it's only coincidence that this latest brushfire between them happens when the U.S. is at war in the region.
 
777236ER
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:24 am

No, the flareup is happening now because both sides can use the excuse that "they're fighting terrorists." The US and others can't critise.

Define a terrorist for me?

One county's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter.......

Your bone's got a little machine
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:32 am

Define a terrorist for me?

One county's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter.......


Right. People who blow up buildings, themselves and others are terrorists to anyone with half a brain. That has nothing to do with fighting for one's freedom.

 
Guest

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:37 am

What you are missing is the doplomatic efforts that the US and other nations push as hard as they can before the ass kicking takes place. India and Pakistan have been fighting for the last 50 years, it will not change.
Iain
 
donder10
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:45 am

''If we didn't take action like Clinton we would get more attack and the people of Afghan would continue to suffer under the Taliban. now the people of Afghan has a lasting peace''-Come on dude,don't try and make out that the US gives a shit about the Afghani people.
 
777236ER
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:53 am

People who blow up buildings, themselves and others are terrorists to anyone with half a brain.

By your logic, the US, in Afghanistan, is a terrorist.

See? "Terrorist" can't be defined. You'll say "but the US is fighting for justice, peace yada yada yada. We have the right to etc" and i'm not saying that's wrong, BUT bin Laden and Al-Queda can say exactly the same thing.

I'll say it again, one country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter
Your bone's got a little machine
 
wardialer
Posts: 1141
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:04 am

To define a terrorist. A terrorist IS NOT just a group who hijacks planes or screws around with Weapons of Mass Destruction, a terrorist in my definition means for example like a serial killer, a rapist, a child molestor, a murderer, the Columbine shootings, etc. The meaning of my post is that this war is bringing to much retaliation. Look what happened in the past few days or weeks. Plus Im angry that no other country is helping us out, we are fighting this war alone.
 
777236ER
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:09 am

Firstly, erm, i live in the UK. Last i heard, we were helping out. In fact, the SAS almost had bin laden, until you told the world that and gave us away :-\

Secondly, you still haven't defined a terrorist. A serial killer? The US has killed dozens of civilians in Afghanistan. They feel they're justified (and I do too), BUT by your definition they're a terrorist. Certainly, al-queda would view them as a terror group.

Yet again, one country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter

Got it yet?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:26 am

777236ER, as has been pointed out over and over...and over again, there's a difference between the deliberate killing of poeple like happened on 9-11, and when the suicide bombers blow themselves up in Israel, killing civilians, and the non-deliberate killing of civilians when a bomb or missle goes astray. The deliberate act is indeed an act of terror, and has nothing to do with "freedom fighting". The other is, has been, and always will be, a part of warfare. There's a big distinction.

And gee, we've killed "dozens of civilians" in Afghanistan. Dozens, huh? Mercy, that makes us as bad as Osama, doesn't it? Grow up.

And Wardialer, last I checked, Britian, Germany, Austrailia, and even Japan is giving help to this effort to get rid of Al Quaeda and bin Laden. And how come you're angry? You're against the war on terror anyway!
 
jessman
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:52 am

A terrorist operates purely to incite fear to a people/country. They will target specifically civilians and non military structures. They don't operate under the conventional rules of warfare. The us is not a terrorrist in Afghanistan because the US formally declared war, and was targeting the Afghan military and its suppliers.
Of course civilian casualities will happen, but as recently as WWII pilots were happy if they hit the right city. In vietnam God knows what the bombs were hitting under the jungle foliage. Now civilians get a stray bomb or two and it makes headlines.
Back to the India/Pakistan thing; hopefully it won't escalate to nuclear confrontation. It probably won't anyway, Israel has the bomb, but they don't nuke the rest of the arab world, they know it is counterproductive. Same with india/pakistan. Anyway it's quarreling neighbors, America just provided an excuse, someone else would have is the US didn't. It's unfair to blame the US for their problems with each other.
 
VirginA340
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 2:00 pm

Donder10 Don't put words in my mouth. I'm using that as an example. You can say that we hit two birds with one stone. for my guys at my old Ladder company here in NYC. Getting the Taliban is justice. I hope we do the same with Bin Laden. That punk killed nearly 3,000 men women including 6 kids. 10 guys from my ladder comapny are no longer around. I know a fire cheif that lost two tables of people at his wedding and my old professor knew a guy who lost 3 of his 5 sons. When I think of the things the Armed forces will do to Bin Laden (hopefully toture before a slow death) That is justice. I think of the people that tumbled down a 100 stories and were crushed to death by steel and other debries. On the following Saturday there were 21 funerals.

There were so many that Mayor Guliani, Fire commissioner Von Essen and Police Commisioner Kerik couldn't attend all of them as it's physically an metally impossible The deputy mayor and others had to take their places. Even retired fire and police officers were asked to come because it was physically impossible and it took a toll on the current PD and FD as most had visited more than 5 funerals. The average age of those who died we're 30. Many of them left behind families or we're just married. I'm still shocked about the 4 kids and their teachers on the AA 757. I think of the innocent who died including my fallen brothers. Justice will be served once Osama's head as well as whats left of Al Cadia and his damn sympathyers are shallacked and served on a platter.

It really shocks me that there are people who worry about "Osama's rights" or make the bs statements "The war on terrorism is wrong" or any other Hippy Malarky. This is an attack on my country and my people I hope we mop the landscape with the lot of em!
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 2:09 pm

I wonder if the guy who started this topic is a hard left liberal from Berkley U out in California.  Insane That place is full of people like him. Hell the town council there actually sent a written plea to stop the bombing and use"good old fashioned police work" Last time I heard liberals were against that too
"FUIMUS"
 
wardialer
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 5:17 pm

If Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold ( my pals) were alive I would send them to each Middle Eastern country and have them blow and bomb the hell out of Al-Quaeda network and all the Arabic countries, Hitler style. Or I would throw Usama Bin Laden were psychotic criminals are like Jeffrey Dammer, they would take care of him.
 
Guest

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 6:02 pm

Right. People who blow up buildings, themselves and others are terrorists to anyone with half a brain. That has nothing to do with fighting for one's freedom.

Going by what you say here, Madiba is a terrorist. Yet most of the "western" world had sanctions against his country and openly supported him. In 1994 the whole world embraced Madiba with open arms and teary eyes. Madiba was invited to just about every country by foreign governments. He got standing ovations in the United Nations. When he speaks people stop and listen. They don't just listen, but they actually hear what he is saying. He is one of the most sought after people for speaking engagements.

Not bad for a terrorist huh?

BTW, read his autobiography "Long Walk to Freedom". You guys may just learn a thing or two.
 
EmiratesLover
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 6:20 pm

I respectfully disagree with Wardieler.

I think the United States has an obligation AND a a right to punish terrorists who murder the harm and the innocent, but only with the firm proviso that it does everthing in it's power to protect the innocent in the process.

I fail to see any link between the tragedy in Afghanistan and America with the situation in South Asia.It is just coincidental, and I do not feel ther has been a domino effect.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 10:05 pm

Speaking of those dozens of Afghan people killed: Last week I read that an AMERICAN professor had calculated (always using the most modest and lowest claims available) that the US bombing campaign has cost more civilian lives in Afghanistan than those killed in the WTC and Pentagon combined.

The article also stated that this report was simply NOT even reported by any US media. Makes you wonder...
 
cfalk
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:06 pm

Scorpio, the difference is that Afghan civilians (true civilians, that is) were not the intended target, whereas in the New York attacks innocent civilians were the intended target from the beginning. There is a sizable moral distinction. The first is a tragic accident, but inevitable every once and a while, wheras the other is entirely intentional.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Mon Dec 31, 2001 11:30 pm

Cfalk,

True, from a Western point of view. But they're still dead.

And since some people in here seem to be so big on numbers...
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:07 am

Cfalk,

True, from a Western point of view. But they're still dead.

And since some people in here seem to be so big on numbers...


The only one "big" on the numbers are those who try to condemn the U.S. retaliation, which it has rightfully exercised.

As for that professor, where did he get his numbers and how? Makes you wonder.....
 
heavymetal
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:07 am

And we were *supposed* to do......what?
 
Scorpio
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:26 am

Alpha 1,

You're not supposed to be reading my posts. As for where he gets the numbers? He took only those incidents which were reported by more than one independent source, and in each of those cases he took the lowest estimate. But then again, why do I even bother telling you this? He's just an anti-American American, isn't he? What would he know, he's just a professor...
 
Scorpio
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 2:28 am

Oh, BTW, 'retaliation' you say? I though it was a war against terrorism, and had nothing to do with revenge? How stupid I was...
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 4:20 am

Pardon me, but I pretty much decided not to read the previous replies 'cuz somthing needs to be addressed.

Who thinks this war on terrorism is a bad idea? Well it is, because we will get the whole world fighting each other like Pakistan and India. It will be a like a domino effect slowly by slowly. Bush made a very terrible mistake!!!!

Wardialer:

There are multiple sides to this issue and therefore infinte responses and solutions, if any. I think I understand your domino-effect point, but as you can see it couldn't be helped...so to speak.

----------

One issue to this is if this should be called a "war on terrorism" in the first place; it's supposed to be retribution to what happened on September 11th, a revenge thing. Supposedly, we are to bring those involved to justice and it would be all over. This is where more issues sprout.

Who did this to us? Nineteen men aged in their early twenties caused the events to occur. How do we make them pay for it? Well, they are dead, so where to from here? Let's we go after those whom are thier likely supporters because in our justice system, if anyone was involved in a crime they are just as criminal. Let's go after bin Laden. Why bin Laden? Because our government said so.

Now it gets funny, you see, they haven't *proved* it to us that he was involved at all, it is just that we are all so emotional, that we don't care who was responsible, just that they pay for it. Some of us still use the numbers 4000-5000 poeple who died, folks that number has come down to 2500, still too high, but that doesn't mean you have to act like terrorism has never existed before.

Anyways, we go after bin Laden and he's supposedly in Afganistan in which the ruling government (if you want to call it that) reigns supreme. They ask for proof. We don't give it to them because we are convinced he did it and we don't negotiate with terrorists. The US government figures that since the Taliban won't give him up, they are involved, hence they are terrorists as well. They didn't do anything to us, but we attack them anyway, 'cuz they "harbour terrorists". Facinating how we refuse to tell them the rules of our game and yet penalize them as such.

So now we lauch our 'mightiness' upon Afganistan to search for bin Laden AND his second-in-charge fellow AND this newly discovered (with respect to the American citizens) Al-Keida (sp?) network of terrorists. 3 months in, there is no Taliban, and very little if any Al-Keida members, yet bin Laden still has not been located.

Here's another problem, we want to bring this guy to justice yet we want him dead or alive. On top of that, hunting for this guy is like hunting for the yetti. All we have are conflicting reports and eyewitnesses. Though we were able to get a blood sample from his family so we can one day identify his carcus in some cave that hasn't caved in.  Insane

However, it is quite possible that OBL may be alive and in Pakistan somehow. But Pakistan has got it's own problems. They are at the brink of nuclear war with India and the US has the nerve to tell Pakistan not to focus on India and rather focus on OBL's whereabouts.

India is pissed, they see in their eyes that Pakistan-born Islamic militants from Kashmir suicide bombed their government buildings and are being told by the US to stand down. Why are they pissed again? Well what did the US do when Islamic militants suicide bombed their government and commercial buildings, they let all hell break loose and annhilated much of Afganistan, so why can't India do the same to Pakistan? Because both of them have nuclear munitions? No, because bin Laden is in Pakistan.

----------

Your orginal point of domino-effect stems from the fact that we all need to defend ourselves except the United States prefers to tell the world it's "do as I say and not as I do" diplomatic atitude. And yet some people here wonder why foreigners could possibly dislike us.  Yeah sure

As you can see, my opinions are really starting to flood out. It's BS, what are the chances that we are going to find/identify his body dead or alive? It's BS that this whole thing will be over when that point comes, it is impossible. The US purposely did this just so this stupid campaign can keep going. The idea of finding anything to justify this whole campaign as finding a needle in a haystack is an extreme understatement. More like finding a needle in a NEEDLE STACK!

IMRO, the United States government could care less about a war between the Southern Asia countries...I swear to God this whole thing was planned and this recent development would be a bonus for US military contracts.

War is what keeps their, hence, our economy going. The entire world economy depends on conflict -- peace doesn't sell and that sucks.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:05 am

What a bunch of cynical jerks on this forum! Why don't you share this cynicism and these conspiracy theories with the families of all those who died?

WE were attacked! What exactly do we need to prove to scum like you? The burden of proof is on the bastards who wiped out thousands of innocent lives in one fell swoop and destroyed thousands more who were their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters.

If anything UBL has incriminated himself like he hasn't done before courtesy of Al-Jazeera. The likes of you belong in the same caves where these ruthless cowards reside. Better yet, you should spend 5 minutes in a room with the families of the attack victims. Maybe then you would see everything from a different perspective.

Where do you live? Somewhere in the Rockies? The woods of Montana? Rest assured if the likes of you were running this society of ours even you wouldn't feel safe there.
 
JetService
Posts: 4611
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:05 am

You folks can try to equate suicide terror attacks on innocents with America defending her citizens with force until you're blue in the face. It will never, never, never be even close to the same thing. You're just trying to justify your positions to yourselves. (Certainly you're not stupid enough to think you can justify it with any right-minded person on this forum).
"Shaddap you!"
 
lehpron
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 6:41 am

Above are various examples of emotion-run-rampant, hence a non-thinkers, most unfortunate IMO.

Why don't you share this cynicism and these conspiracy theories with the families of all those who died...

Because the families are obviously way too emotional to hold a conversation with and they aren't interested in truth, they don't know why it happened and they don't care. They want their loved ones back, which isn't going to happen, so blood usually fills the void. Look at yourself, you are way to emotional to see the onesidedness of your own words.

Right. People who blow up buildings, themselves and others are terrorists to anyone with half a brain. That has nothing to do with fighting for one's freedom.

Alpha, would you please try to leave your emotional-based thinking out of this argument, it's clouding your judgement. Or at least try to think of the otherside's various issues. Virgin340, that goes for you too. Those who blew up buildings were doing it for a reason, duh! Whatever it was seems beyond irrelievant to most of you...

Sorry Jessman, Israel does not have nukes, otherwise they would have blown away the Palestinians by now.

IrishFlyer, you have a lot of guts to accuse anyone especially without proof of anything but bad language. We aren't going to war to end terrorism, that's just what Bush says to keep the war going, it's a revenge thing.

I get tired of this you guys. I figure if you couldn't care less for the other sides of arguments, equations, or issues why bother to say anything? What do you know? About them, nothing! Why is it your preference to read half a book and make judgements. Why do you treat what happened to us as if it never happened before, as if every other terrorist attack pales in comparison, as if we as Americans are so damned important that the whole world and their ills can go to hell?

Wake up! This world isn't some giant church where you can treat people like heiratics. We simply assumed that no terrorist member or organization would have the odasity to attack the US on it's soil. We haven't changed. Even now we are telling another country not to do what we did not for their safety but our intrests.

It is onesided and unacceptable! We can't keep thinking this way. Don't you dare put words in my mouth... Pissed
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:15 am

>Because the families are obviously way too emotional to hold a conversation with and they aren't interested in truth, they don't know why it happened and they don't care

Not interested in truth? We all saw truth live on NBC. Don't know WHY it happened? Read what the Mayor said to the United Nations in October.

"Let those who say that we must understand the reasons for terrorism come with me to the thousands of funerals we're having in New York City -- thousands -- and explain those insane, maniacal reasons to the children who will grow up without fathers and mothers and to the parents who have had their children ripped from them for no reason at all. On this issue -- terrorism -- the United Nations must draw a
line. The era of moral relativism between those who practice or condone terrorism, and those
nations who stand up against it, must end."

Those are my feelings. You should NOT be telling the families to find out WHY this happened. You should probably shut your yap.

>It is onesided and unacceptable! We can't keep thinking this way

Of course I'm one-sided. My nation was attacked and there is absolutely no reason why we should be questioned for retaliating.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 7:59 am

What are you, Vulcan? What's wrong with a little emotion?

The point that Guliani and others on this forum are trying to get across to you is that NO reason whatsoever can possibly can justify such a ruthless attack on civilians. I agree with that assessment.

Charles

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Alpha 1
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 10:34 am

Lephron, LOL-stick it where the sun don't shine, fella. Obviously, you think you're better than the rest of us, but I'm thinking just fine about this issue, pal. I don't think any of us gives a rat's ass what you're tired of, but here's a few truths for your brain to chew on.

1. Under Article 51 of the UN Charter, the United States absolutely has the right to defend itself from these attacks, and to prevent further ones. That's what we've done and it's what we're doing.

2. If you still believe OBL didn't do this, then you're living in another universe. The video released a few weeks ago proves that. He knew of the plan 5 days in advance, as he clearly says in the video, and tells us how he was surprised that that WTC collapesed. These facts are on public record.

3. Equating deliberate deaths of American citizens (and other citizens) at the hands of these Al Quaeda operatives, and those Afghans killed by errant bombs and missile dropped by the U.S. is idiocy. The former is an evil, cold-blooded attempt to murder innocent people and to frighten others. The latter is an attempt to bring to justice those who masterminded and supported the attempt to stop that evil. You may think their the same, but they're nothing in common. It's only those who don't necessarily like the U.S. or it's policies that can equate the two in their minds.

So go on living in your dream world-I'm sure there's a few others on here who would be happy to join you. But thanks for giving all of us who know better a good chuckle.
 
Alpha 1
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

Lephron

Tue Jan 01, 2002 10:40 am

Oh, and Lephron, Israel IS indeed one of the known nuclear powers in the world. They first got nuclear weapons in the late 60's/early 70's. In fact, Prime Minister Golda Maier (I hope I spelled it right), almost ordered them used during the 1983 war with the Arabs.

If you didn't even know this basic geo-political fact, then I think everyone has a right to question what else you try to enlighten us on.
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 12:20 pm

Emotion and Irrationality don't necessarily go hand in hand. As a matter of fact emotion is exactly what differentiates us from the terrorists.
 
VirginA340
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:30 pm

N400X; Lephron is the same little anti US punk bastard who wondered why the FDNY/EMS and NYPD were called "heros" and wondered why should they deserve the special attention.

And he is the one that calls us barbaric.

The nerve of that punk. I even told him to say that infront of his local battallion and he hasn't taken that offer. I guess little shrimp with big mouth vs 4 6,ft 5 IN 200 plus pound guys is no brainer. He'll be pissing in his pants before the real humiliation begins. Understand terrorism my ass. How about Lephron and his cronies say that in MSG with a sold out crowd and we'll see which hospital he ends up in. He is just as annoying as Al Sharpton with a harder head.  Insane I wonder if he is Also a far left bleeding heart from Berkly?
"FUIMUS"
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 1:34 pm

Oh, yeah, VirginA340, I forgot about that idiocy that Lephron tried to pull on here. He blamed the fireman/NYPD for costing lives after the attacks. Yeah, and someone wants to take his comments seriously? Yeah, right.  Pissed  Pissed  Pissed
 
DELL_dude
Posts: 318
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 4:32 pm

"Let those who say that we must understand the reasons for terrorism come with me to the thousands of funerals we're having in New York City -- thousands -- and explain those insane, maniacal reasons to the children who will grow up without fathers and mothers and to the parents who have had their children ripped from them for no reason at all. On this issue -- terrorism -- the United Nations must draw a line. The era of moral relativism between those who practice or condone terrorism, and those
nations who stand up against it, must end."


Mayor of New York City, R.G.

 
VirginA340
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RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 4:49 pm

Alpha; Thats not the only thing. He then wrote a post with a not even close sincere apoligy after one of the users (now on my list) posted the names of each and every FDNY/EMS, NYPD and PAPD. I'd rather not hear an apoligy at all than the one he gave. The last part said"I apolige to everyone except for virginA340" I litterally cussed him out and gave him a verbal he'll never forget. What do you expect when you say this infront of a guy who had the honor and privilage of serving with a FDNY Ladder Co for 2 years. Alpha I think you read a few of my posts regarding the issue. That crackhead never apoligized to the so many people that sacrafices their lives to save others. His insults were not needed. Oh and Lephron There is no reason that mothers, fathers, sons, daughters and sisters and other loved ones died. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON!!!!!! What's next. Is Lephron going to "Try to understand" Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot , Slobvidan Milosovich,!?!

How Taliban of him!

Hey Lephy! Why don't u give it a rest. You are not going to win! Remember that 80 nations also lost many people. So watch where you step.

"FUIMUS"
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 10:27 pm

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:09 pm

Hey Lehpron, since you hate the United States so much, I'll be more than happy to buy you a first class, one way ticket to any country and on the airline of your choice. Just let me know where to send it.
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 5:55 pm

No wonder why Lephy is having problems in his life (especially with girls) he pisses too many people off with the Rev Al Sharpton act

Lephy; See a good Psychiatrist and take medication beofre you really dig yourself a hile you can't get out of.
"FUIMUS"
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Tue Jan 01, 2002 11:45 pm

Lephy; I meant to say See a good Psychiatrist and take some meds before you really dig yourself a hole that you can't get out of.
"FUIMUS"
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 12:02 am

I see the same thing happening that we see every time someone criticizes the US in any way: That person's being called every dirty name in the book, words are being put into his mouth, and the true criticism isn't even addressed, just laughed away, because 'how DARE someone criticize the USA'. It's sad. Really SAD.

Some of you so-called 'patriots' (and let's name 'em: N400QX, VirginA340, Alpha 1, B757300, DELL_Dude) are acting like a bunch of 10-year-olds on a bad trip. Your so-called 'opinions' are based purely on emotions, rather than common sense. Emotions are good, but don't let them cloud your judgment. No-one, I REPEAT, NO-ONE on these forums is on the Taliban's side, or that of OBL. NO-ONE!!!!!!!!! GET IT??????? The way you're acting in here is a SHAME on the USA.
 
Philly Phlyer
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 12:05 pm

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 12:25 am

Sorry Scorpio, but all is not emotion. The United States was attacked. It was not an act of terrorism. It was an act of war. It does not matter if it the attack was carried out by regular military forces or guerrilla forces that are able to act under the protection of and tacit approval and consent of the rogue governments that harbour them, this still was an act of war and the United States has the right to act to protect itself.

Understanding and turning the other cheek will not stop the attacks. The US tried to use less extreme methods to deal with such incidents for the World Trade bombing, the embassy bombing and the US Cole. Sorry, but the forces that carried out these attacks viewed that as a sign of weakness.

If you go back into early US history, one of the original flags had a coiled rattlesnake on it with the motto "don't tread on me." The US still has that attitude. Frankly, many of us DO NOT care if anyone likes us, but we give the same warning. Step on us at your own peril.

Finally, the acts being carried out are not revenge. To say that these merely are revenge is, as you put it, "REALLY SAD."
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 12:43 am

What amazes me about you Scorpio, is that for some reason, ANY American opinion doesn't count for anything. Last time I checked, human beings have emotion, and they do use it in garnering an opinion, am I not correct. You can meander around here like Mr. Spock, tell us how boorishly better you are than the rest of us, becuase you don't use emotion, and all that crap, but it doesn't fly.

As for your claim NO ON is on the Taliban's side, why don't you go back and read Goodbye on an earlier thread as to how much he ADMIRES Osama bin Laden! Now, tell me he's not on his side. He is, and he makes no qualms about it.

Your problem is that while you're not on OBL's side, you're certainly not on the side of the nations' who want to go after this terrorism. You're a friggin fence-sitter, someone who doesn't have the balls to lay it out on the line, and who then critisizes everyone on this side of that fence for being too emotional, while rarely, if ever, critisizing the side of the fence that started this war.

We've told you what we believe, and be damend your stance on "emotion". That's a cop-out of the first degree. In this conflict there isn't a third side. You are, truly, either on the side of terror, or on the side of those wanting to rid the world of terror. And, yes, in this conflict, there is simply black or white-there are no shades of gray or anything else.

If you are not on the side of OBL, and I will take you at your word for that, then why don't you pipe down when critisizing those of us who want to fry the bastard and any other bastard who tries to launch attacks on the United States? We have a right to our opinion, despite your failed effort to belittle those opinions. But no, you can't resist, simply because of your dislike of us and of the U.S.
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 2:07 am

Alpha 1,

You simply do not get, do you? I mean, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here! I have said over and over and over and OVER again that I too want to see OBL's head on a plate! Read all my earlier posts on the subject (oh yeah, that's right, you 'don't' read them because of your boycott against me. Nice way, and very mature, I might add, of avoiding having to take back your words). What's being criticized is the WAY in which this is being done. The WAY. Got it? The WAY!!!!! Not the goal, but the MEANS!

We have a right to our opinion, despite your failed effort to belittle those opinions. But no, you can't resist, simply because of your dislike of us and of the U.S.

And I have a right to my opinion too. BTW, I was not belittling the opinions, but the idiotic remarks made by some on these forums, which are not opinions, but simply name-calling, many times downright insulting. Examples?
a) You're anti-American;
b) Get out of my country;
c) You're an apologist for terrorism;
d) Go to a psychiatrist;
e) Names to be used: punk, bastard, communist (!), idiot, d**khead,...
f) Shut your yap;
g) Go to hell;
...

Get the picture? Yes, I suppose that's just your way (or at least of some of the people on this forum) of having a civilized discussion, but it doesn't work like that for me...

To finish off my rant, a little quote from an earlier post by VirginA340:

Donder10 Don't put words in my mouth.

LOL! Maybe you should start following your own advice for a change...
 
EWRvirgin
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 11:38 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 4:30 am

Scorpio,

What do you mean the 'way' its being conducted?

Should we go over there with a picnic basket and have a nice sit-down to talk things over?

C'mon man, be realistic. You can't reason with insanity - nor should you after such barbaric acts.

I don't think any American denies the resentment felt towards him and his country for its pre-eminent influence and power. Some of it may be justified and some of it is ridiculous. But none of this resentment justifies what was done on Sept 11 or other previous attacks. When you have a scourge that transcends national boundaries and governments you must use whatever means at your disposal to protect and defend your citizens - militarily, politically, diplomatically. That's exactly what Bush and the rest of our government is doing.
 
go canada!
Posts: 2886
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2001 1:33 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 5:30 am

Right number one point-Scorpio , man you need to address that anti american feeling and look inside yourself and wonder what your purpose is..take the following post......

Posted 2001-12-31 18:26:16 and read 163 times.
Alpha 1,

You're not supposed to be reading my posts. As for where he gets the numbers? He took only those incidents which were reported by more than one independent source, and in each of those cases he took the lowest estimate. But then again, why do I even bother telling you this? He's just an anti-American American, isn't he? What would he know, he's just a professor...

Hes not supposed to be reading your post, why how dare he, how dare a mere mortal read your posts, espeically when they contain such academic knowledge!

why make a post of you dont want anyone to read it-is it because its based on lies dammed lies?

What professor are you reffering too, one of maths or of the sciences, a history professor or a wholly left wing liberal 'social affairs' professor who validates diplomas oevr the internet just because he happend to have 300 dollars to buy a degree on the web?

What professor, what univeristy, what insititution, the university of life, of social justice or the mary robinson "dont bomb anyone its against human rights blah blah blah" institution?

Number Two, israel has nukes, end of story.It hasnt used them yet because of world pressure.

the rest ill do later

bye for now
It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 6:45 am

EWRvirgin,

No, I'm not saying you should go in there with a picnic basket and sing happy songs  Insane I'm just wondering if attacking an entire country full scale was / is / ever will be the best way to deal with this. Yes, get Bin Laden, bring him to justice. But I have the FEELING that for the US the way this is being conducted has more to do with revenge than with justice being done. And I don't think revenge is a very smart path to follow...

Go Canada,

Alpha 1 has said several times on these forums that he never EVER even reads my posts. It's sort of his way to boycot me. Funny thing is that he claims not to have read exactly those posts which would make him take back some of his words.

As for the professor: I did a little search, and finally found a link to this story in English. Here it is:

http://www.commondreams.org/news2001/1210-01.htm
 
VirginA340
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:35 pm

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 8:54 am

Scorpio; What the hell have you done for your country? Why don't you get off your ass and make yourself useful because you are not serving a purpose. YOU did not loose loved ones YOU we'ren't there YOU don't live there. It's so easy for people like yourself to comment on how "barbaric" we are when your ass is in Belgium and not here. Have you been to ground 0 at all? If you are not even a single bit emotional then I wonder if you are even human at all. As for me acting like a 10 year old. I'd rather act like a 10 year old than a heartless emotionless robot like yourself. you ain't crap unless you have compashion for those who went through this hell. 10 year old have all the things that you don't and as a matter of fact almost every 10 year old who attended the damaged schools around Ground 0 share my opinion. It's people like you in the European governments why terrorism was allowed to survive like this. You chose to understand that malarkie rather than fight back! The UTA DC-10 bombing is a good expample on how people like you but with a political postion acts in the face of danger. Thnak god we have people like Tony Blair and George Bush Jr in power unlike the mrons you have in office right now who chooses to cower rather than fight and the families get screwed.

I served with some of the firemen who died in the WTC. Why don't you fly over to JFK and hop a cab to the nearest firehouse and air your crap to them. You'll see on what happens when you piss off half a dozen firemen. Maybe that'll bring you down to earth.

BTW If you don't like my Brooklyn attitude, tough! Thats me being nice to people like yourself. You wanna see tough? You should really see me in a bar fight.
"FUIMUS"
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4797
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Why Is This War On Terror A Bad Idea.....

Wed Jan 02, 2002 9:12 am

VirginA340,

That was yet another nice proof of what it was I was talking about. Let me break it to you ONCE MORE, in simple words: There is nothing wrong with emotions, emotions are good. I can understand that you are mad at the people responsible for this horrendous act of terror, and that you want to see someone pay. Those are basic human feelings. But you need to understand that emotions can not be used as the basis of making judgments. I know very well that that is very difficult for you, in your position, and easy for me to say, but this is just the way it is.

When politics (and, after all, that IS what this is all about) start being ruled by emotions rather than logic and common sense, things go wrong.

You should really see me in a bar fight.

Yes, that's a good way to make yourself more respected as a clear-headed, intelligent individual. NOT!

BTW, there's things like spelling checkers for people like you. I advise you to use it, because that rant you wrote above is pretty much unreadable.

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