ryanb741
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Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:31 am

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_521160.html?menu=news.quirkies

Gotta love those Saudis, they're all crazy!  Big thumbs up
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:14 am

So according to Islam, they did the right thing. Islam teaches a muslim society to eliminate things which are not allowed in Islam and in this case, dating, forming premartial relationships or premartial romance.

So to me, they are not crazy instead they are faithful.
 
OO-AOG
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:17 am

I agree Musalmaan.
Falcon....like a limo but with wings
 
ryanb741
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:31 am

Riiiight. So you are in fact admitting indirectly that the Muslim faith is not strong enough for its followers to adhere to its principles through their own will - instead everything has to be banned to FORCE them to comply? Is that therefore not an admission that Islam therefore needs to regulate its followers by forced submission?
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:13 am

Ryanb741,

I was just about to make exactly the same point. It will be interesting to see the response, if any.
Cheers,

mb
 
Guest

Ryanb741, Mx5_boy

Fri Feb 15, 2002 7:27 am

Hehe.

No actually that is wrong. Many historians (don't ask me which) and religious scholars (don't ask me which) have said that Islam has the greatest % of faithful people. Since the thing is that in Islam, if one, regardless of being muslim or not, is living in muslim area, they have to follow and respect the laws set out by Quran and Islam itself. No if the people over there don't like it, they might very well migrate to neighbouring countries such as UAE, Eqypt, or Syria or even to USA or Canada. We don't force them. They are the ones living there and thus, we can conclude that they don't mind such restrictions.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:12 am

Islam teaches a muslim society to eliminate things which are not allowed in Islam and in this case, dating, forming premartial relationships or premartial romance.

HELLO? What do you think the point of Valentine's day is? To promote premarital sex? It can be celebrated between acquantiances, friends, lovers, married couples, siblings, grandparents etc.
 
Guest

CPCC10-30

Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:16 am

Yes that is right. You have a valid point but if it can cause other things as well, ban it...that's what they say.
 
johnboy
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:58 am

But let the men "gaily" play amongst themselves.

Inshallah, indeed!
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:04 am

Johnboy,

*giggle*

You should read what Fodors says!!

lol

mb
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 11:30 am

this is upsetting and scary. Actions like this will only stir further anti-americanism and anti-westernism that contribute to the present crisis we have today.

If America banned its citizens from celebrating Muslim and Saudi holidays and events, I would be equally outraged, but thankfully that is not in the spirit of modernity or civility and thus the US has no interest in whether its citizens celebrate Valentines Day or not.

TNNH
 
User avatar
Goodbye
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:02 pm

It's too commercial anyway...

Needless to say I did not get any Valentines this year  Sad
 
Hoffa
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:18 pm

Yeah and Saudi has "banned" alcohol and drugs from their country too. Yet somehow drug and alcohol abuse are rampant among its people. How un-Islamic!
 
cfalk
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 1:30 pm

I'm afraid this makes Islam (or at least the Saudi version of it) look awfully 13th century.

Charles
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 8:43 pm

Isnt Valentine's Day supposed to celebrate love? So how can ANY religion, especially Islam, be against Love?

Mebbe, if they renamed it as Saint Majnoo's Day then it would be more acceptable to Islam?

Regards.

Roy.
 
Marco
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:01 pm

CPDC10-30 made an excellent point.

Valentine's day can be celebrated by anybody; parents, married couples, friends, and (GASP!) even unmarried couples (most of whom end up getting married anyway).

Yet another step backwards for Saudi Arabia. What next, ban oxygen?
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Fri Feb 15, 2002 9:06 pm

What next, ban oxygen?

I know some countries that would be very happy if the Saudis decided to ban oxygen from themselves.  Smile
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:00 am

Guys, think about it from a religious point of you. The name of the occasion is Saint Valentine's Day.
Now, Saint suggests to me that it is a christian concept and if I am living in a country that follows Islam closely, I suggest ban it. And as for gays celebrating there, they don't atleast do it in public nor do they show their gayness in public. Like you guys said, you don't know who is gay. Also, believe me, not many people over there are gay. Maybe 0.5% at the most.

And as for Islam looking very 13th century, believe me, when we see pictures of women wearing clothes as if they were poor and didn't had money to buy full clothes, we think western people are becoming ignorant.
If you keep thinking with your society's mentality than yes, you will think us as ancient, outdated religion but if you look from our mentalities, we find Islam the most modern and porsche religion.

Twaneedsnohelp: I know India would be very willing to ban oxygen due to overcrowding if they could  Smile
 
rwy31r
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:52 am

I agree Ryanb741. you couldn't be more right.
"Saudia Three Five hold short Three One Right"
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:38 am

Now, Saint suggests to me that it is a christian concept and if I am living in a country that follows Islam closely, I suggest ban it.

Ok, well here lies the problem Musalman. Saudi Arabia's banning of a holiday with only remotely Christian ties because it is not Islamic is a strong show of intolerance to people other than muslims. This is inconsistant with global themes international cooperation and religious tolerance and diologue. Take for example Israel, a Jewish state. Israel has no connection to st. valentines day and the holiday isnt celebrated much, but the government would never think of banning the holiday and preventing its citizens from celebrating it. Such action is antithetical to the state was founded upon.

Why can't Saudi make a mature and similar decision?

Maybe 0.5% at the most.

More silly comments from our Musliman. How can only half of one percent of the population in Saudi be born gay but the rest of the world has gay populations around 10% or so?? Did the prophet Mohammad make some miracle or divine act decreasing the ability of mothers from having gay children????

Somehow I don't think thats true and the more likely answer is that the repressive regime of Saudi Arabia prevents its citizens from being openly gay because it might kill them or cut off their cock or whatever it is they do over there.

Intolerant to nonMuslims, intolerant to gays, sound like a geat system.... if your a nazi.

TNNH
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:05 pm

Musalmaan says:

""Also, believe me, not many people over there are gay. Maybe 0.5% at the most. ""

*laughing*

TNNH,

You make an obvious point. Our mysterious muslim friends are only proving to the rest of us how barbaric and behind the times muslim nations are.

If other countries peoples, who are allowed religious and other freedoms continue to prosper, why are strict Islamic countries behind the times?

Australia for example has no national religion. As I have stated before anyone is free to choose whatever religion in this country they want. As a very small nation made up of people from accross the planet we enjoy a wonderful economy and lifestyle. Together with the more progressive nations we also have our fair share of technological breakthroughs in medicine and tonnes of other things.

What technological and innovative things have any Islamic countries given us? If someone can provide facts and figures I would be interested in the per capita basis.

Humans evolve - not devolve.

Cheers,

mb

A new star is born..
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:15 pm

Hmm...

I can just see all the Saudi princes praising the abolition of Valentine's Day and supporting the great Anti-American campaign in their motherland. Then they sit back, sip a Coca-Cola, and come on their 2 Lockheed L-1011's non-stop to Newark for a shopping spree in New York. They come here all the time, I have seen it myself.

- KEWR  Sad
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:47 pm

Our mysterious muslim friends

They're not my friends.  Laugh out loud
 
b757300
Posts: 3914
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 3:00 pm

Too bad it can't be banned in the United States........
"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 4:24 pm

someone didnt get laid last night?
 
PUnmuth@VIE
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:38 pm

Whats so hard to accept that the Saudis are doing something in their own country? Nobody is going to be hurt nobody is going to die because of the ban. So what?
Its their country and they can enforce laws whatever they want or THINK its right.
Peter
-
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 7:02 pm

People are born gay? Are you referring to the "gay" gene? That was debunked by the guy who "discovered" it. Funny how when he discovered it, that it was on the cover of time and US news, but when he admitted that it was a hoax it didn't get one mention even in the back of the magazines. Being Gay is a choice, and like religion they are entitled to that choice, but it is not in the genes, you are not born with it.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:05 pm

Just an experiment: Imagine that "western" countries banned the Ramadan?

Just an experiment, it can never happen. Because we are not living in the 13th century.

This world is a very strange world. So called authorities put up cultural barriers where there should be no barriers. Barriers which create conflicts where there should be no conflicts. Etc.

The 21st century is still way ahead. No glimse in the horizon so far. Seems like the next century should be named the 12th.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Marco
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 10:56 pm

Guys, think about it from a religious point of you. The name of the occasion is Saint Valentine's Day.
Now, Saint suggests to me that it is a christian concept and if I am living in a country that follows Islam closely, I suggest ban it.


Of course ban it, after all kaffirs celebrate it, don't they?  Insane

And as for gays celebrating there, they don't atleast do it in public nor do they show their gayness in public. Like you guys said, you don't know who is gay. Also, believe me, not many people over there are gay. Maybe 0.5% at the most

WRONG AGAIN, studies have shown an unusually large percentage of Saudi men to be gay/have had sexual relations with another man. This also exists in the Khaleej and especially Egypt, all Muslim countries. Face the facts!


Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Matt D
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Marco

Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:00 pm

Marco:

Your post begs an interesting question.

If homosexuality is still "in the closet" in Saudi Arabia, and few men practice or acknowledge it, then who did this conclusive study of yours that says there are lots of gay Saudi men? How did these "researchers" obtain this information?
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:15 pm

Taking the active part in homosexual relationships is not regarded as homosexual in the Arabian world. Hence such low percentage numbers. On the other hand, one of the greatest insults is "manyuk", referring to the, well, receiving role. (Someone with real Arabic knowledge feel free to correct me.)

To everybody talking about 13th century - Islam is indeed in its 13th century, roughly; just look at Christianity in its 13th century (witch burning, rampant antisemitism, crusades). Maybe it´s just history repeating itself, to a certain degree only, of course - I´m not saying today´s Islam is as bad as 13th century Christianity.

Daniel Smile
 
Marco
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:21 pm

Your post begs an interesting question.

If homosexuality is still "in the closet" in Saudi Arabia, and few men practice or acknowledge it, then who did this conclusive study of yours that says there are lots of gay Saudi men? How did these "researchers" obtain this information?


Let's study the situation in Saudi, shall we? If anyone complains on you to the authorities, that you are a homosexual, what happens to you? You get your head chopped off in a public square.

Why is there an unusually large amount of homosexuals in Saudi?

Take a nice look at the society there. Men hardly see any women. They are not present (that much) in the workforce, public places, restaurants (men cannot dine with women, unless they are married), etc...

Instead they interact with males, all the time. As a result homosexuality has been on the rise.

In the Gulf News it was reported that Kuwaiti officials were complaining about all-girls/all-boys schools. According to them, a lot of homosexuality was being reported.

If you were to live in the Middle East you might know more about the situation.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
Marco
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:28 pm

Airsicknessbag,

Unfortunately many people have used Christianity as an excuse to kill people, but if we study the Bible, killing is wrong. Only God has the ability to take away what he has created.

Also, back then the Muslim Ottoman empire was responsible for killing/forcefully converting (some estimates claim) 60 million Assyrian/Armenian Christians, because of their religion. In fact at the begginning og the 2oth century around 2 million Armenians were killed, not to mention Assyrians. Let's not forget Genghis Khan. What you're implying is not valid. Christianity is not violent, nor does it preach violence.

Try visiting Atour or Nineveh
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sun Feb 17, 2002 12:33 am

>>>Christianity is not violent, nor does it preach violence.

Marco,

perhaps I made it not clear enough what I wanted to say: I was talking about Christianity in the 13th century. And OK, let me rephrase it, I was talking about Christians who were violent out of misconceptions of their religion. Sure Christianity itself was not violent, even 700 years ago. But some people pretending and believing to act in the name of christianity committed acts that we today regard as atrocities, namely the inquisition. And that situation DOES remind me a little of the Islam of today.

Daniel Smile
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sun Feb 17, 2002 3:37 am

Whats so hard to accept that the Saudis are doing something in their own country? Nobody is going to be hurt nobody is going to die because of the ban. So what?
Its their country and they can enforce laws whatever they want or THINK its right.


Peter, I chose your post to reply to becuase I think it prompts the most interesting debate here.

Peter, this point that you bring up that the world should let the Saudis do whatever they want in their own country and we are wrong to criticize their mistakes IS AT THE VERY ROOT OF THE PRESENT CONFLICT.

On September 11th we learned how dangerous and wrong it is to not help the Saudis understand that many of the policies and laws in their country are detrimental to global security, religious tolerance, and stability.

In the past we looked on Saudi only has a big gas station, now we know better because 15 young Saudis educated in her schools and her mosques and banned from Valentines Day and the other benign western celebrations killed thousands of my people.

So, yes America does have a problem with Saudi Arabia and behavior such as this, and it won't be resolved on airliners.net and it won't be resolved with the attitude that "its their country", but it will be resolved when the Saudis are assissted by the Americans to understand what a tragic mistake they are making.

TNNH
 
777236ER
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sun Feb 17, 2002 3:50 am

Can i ask why people are getting annoyed with Saudia Arabia?! It should be banned!! And no, this isn't just because 777236ER's girlfriend was a France skiing. Skis over me!! How dare she!!

Your bone's got a little machine
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Sun Feb 17, 2002 5:18 am

Pardon me! but i think i just imssed something. Can someone tell me how homosexuality got into this discussion?!
 
WorldVoyager
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Mon Feb 18, 2002 9:35 am

As a Muslim I DISAGREE with whoever said that Islam blatantly discourages relationships. It is MUCH more of a cultural aspect than an actual religious aspect of the region.
 
Klaus
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Mx5_boy

Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:01 am

Mx5_boy: What technological and innovative things have any Islamic countries given us?

- The basis for modern medicine.
- Ditto for astronomy.
- Ditto for Mathematics. (The decimal system, including the invention of the zero.)
Just to name a few.

The trouble is, that´s been many, many centuries ago. With the advent (or return) of religious orthodoxy, muslim contributions to the world seem to have dried up considerably.

Mx5_boy: Humans evolve - not devolve.

Oh yes, they do!!

Just a little less than half the time!  Big thumbs up
 
Klaus
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Toadpipe

Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:04 am

Toadpipe: People are born gay? Are you referring to the "gay" gene? That was debunked by the guy who "discovered" it.

Which would at most prove that his particular concept may have been wrong. Nothing more.

Toadpipe: Being Gay is a choice, and like religion they are entitled to that choice, but it is not in the genes, you are not born with it.

It´s not terribly important whether it´s genetic or due to other biological influences. Just looking at millenia of persecution should be sufficient to demonstrate that it´s not a "choice". Otherwise, there would be a tremendous coincidence with masochism. Which isn´t evident, for all I know.  Wink/being sarcastic
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:08 am

The trouble is, that´s been many, many centuries ago. With the advent (or return) of religious orthodoxy, muslim contributions to the world seem to have dried up considerably.

Good point, is that now why they are openly hostile to the far more advanced Israel and America?
 
Klaus
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Twaneedsnohelp

Mon Feb 18, 2002 10:24 am

Klaus: The trouble is, that´s been many, many centuries ago. With the advent (or return) of religious orthodoxy, muslim contributions to the world seem to have dried up considerably.

Twaneedsnohelp: Good point, is that now why they are openly hostile to the far more advanced Israel and America?

I don´t think "they" are openly hostile. Some muslims are!

It´s as silly to judge all muslims by the example of Osama bin Laden as it would be to judge the "western world" by the example of Adolf Hitler!

As far as I know, many people are embittered by the west´s opportunistic support for corrupt tyrants as long as commercial interests are satisfied. Many of our own countries don´t have a particularly bright record on that point.

Acting on our presumed high ideals, for a change, could do wonders. Bombing Iraq back from the bronze- to the stone age won´t cut it, though.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Mon Feb 18, 2002 1:33 pm

TNNH: Yup...exactly. I made that point on a few other threads too...I guess we can only hope for the fundamentalist countries Sad.

Toadpipe: You're wrong, plain and simple. Of course it isn't biologically understood yet, but it sure isn't a choice.

Aaron G.
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Mon Feb 18, 2002 1:39 pm

Just a small correction Klaus. The scientific inventions you mentioned like Zero, Decimal System and some modern algebraic concepts were invented in India by a mathematician called Aryabhatta, and later another guy called Bhaskara, in and around the 700 AD(?).

Islamic science is responsible for the development of many navigation aids used even today.
 
Klaus
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Indianguy

Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:50 am

Indianguy: Just a small correction Klaus. The scientific inventions you mentioned like Zero, Decimal System and some modern algebraic concepts were invented in India by a mathematician called Aryabhatta, and later another guy called Bhaskara, in and around the 700 AD(?).

Dang! The one time I didn´t check! Big grin

But as far as I know, these innovations at least came to Europe through the islamic countries (including the then-occupied parts of Spain), even if they weren´t all developed there.
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:13 am

Any reply PUnmuth@VIE to my countrargument?
 
Guest

RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Tue Feb 19, 2002 10:54 am

In the absence of any proof then I am wrong. Sorry, doesn't work that way, if it ain't in the genes, it ain't in the genes. It shows every evidence of being a learned behaviour. Even if it was an inherited trait, that doesn't preclude the choice in the matter.

Millenia of persecution, prooves nothing. Except it wasn't tolerated. People haven't tolerated murder for over a millenia does that make murder a genetic trait? No, and I am not equating homosexuality with murder. Just your proof with another.


I'm not a homophobe or a hatemonger either, I don't hate or even dislike people becuase they choose to be gay.That doesn't mean I agree with the Gay lifestyle.
 
Trvlr
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Tue Feb 19, 2002 12:46 pm

Toadpipe: Then, theoretically, your heterosexuality is also choice. And how did you choose? Do you believe that you consciously thought about it one day, and suddenly for the rest of your life you were attracted to the opposite sex? Granted, there isn't any proof that it isn't a choice, but there isn't any proof that it is either. And even if it was a learned behavior, then at least in my case, sexuality was decided way before I had any conscious say in the matter. Which would put it back in the realm of not being a choice. I am 99.999999% certain that I never had any experiences or self-esteem issues that would have prompted me to "choose" homosexuality; I have had perhaps the most stable childhood anyone could ask for, and I am smart and self-confident enough to figure out what's going on with myself.

There is no substantial evidence to prove that homosexuality is a choice, and there is no substantial evidence as of yet to prove that it isn't. But there is ample circumstantial evidence to prove that it isn't. You're reading the text of one of the best pieces right now.

Aaron G.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Trvlr

Tue Feb 19, 2002 1:10 pm

Couldn't have put it better myself!
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
airmale
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RE: Saudi Arabia Bans Valentine's Day

Wed Feb 20, 2002 5:27 am

I see no harm in celebrating Valentines, I am against it becoming so commercialised.
.....up there with the best!

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