Alpha 1
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Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 12:27 pm

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020221/ts/oly_russian_threats_3.html

If that's how they want to behave, let them leave. I don't think they actually will, though.

The U.S., and other countries, have had their share of horrendous Olympic judging and other things as well-the outright stealing of the Basketball Gold Medal in the '72 games, and the Roy Jones Jr debacle in Seoul in '88 jump to mind. But to my knowledge, no country has ever threatened to leave the games in the middle of them.

Russia can be upset by these decisions-anyone would be, but they need to grow up a little and act like adults instead of little children.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 12:41 pm

Go ahead russia. You can have you OWN olympics in some remote territory. If they wasnt to show National Pride and honor, they should stay. but if they are going to be a bunch of panzies, then they can catch teh next flight for all I care

DeltaASA16
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 12:47 pm

Are they upset because they got busted cheating? Let them leave. If they can't win playing fair, then boo hoo for them.
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 4:49 pm

LOL, Alpha, I know, but they're socialists (which are almost as bad) and they kept the old USSR national anthem! hehehe....
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 6:25 pm

In every sentence where you accuse Russia of whinging and complaining, insert "Canadian figure skaters" and there you have it; some of you idiots were supporting those whingers. After all, I have seen plenty of events where Canadian and American judges give high points to their own competitors, but lower points to competitors from Russia, Germany and Switzerland. But hey...that's different huh?

It is also so typical of the write of the article to not really give the other side of the story. The side of the story which is explained in full in the Russian press.

Anyway, the current doping scandal is very much a border line case. The IOC whilst having to get tough on drug cheats, also has to have leniency...just like any court of law does.

N400QX

What is wrong with the old Soviet anthem? The piece of music in the old Soviet anthem, and the new Russian anthem is right behind La Marseillaise. Do you know the words?

Ðîññèÿ - ñâÿùåííàÿ íàøà äåðæàâà!
Ðîññèÿ - ëþáèìàÿ íàøà ñòðàíà!
Ìîãó÷àÿ âîëÿ, âåëèêàÿ ñëàâà-
Òâîå äîñòîÿíüå íà âñå âðåìåíà

ÏÐÈÏÅÂ.
Ñëàâüñÿ, Îòå÷åñòâî íàøå ñâîáîäíîå -
Áðàòñêèõ íàðîäîâ ñîþç âåêîâîé!
Ïðåäêàìè äàííàÿ ìóäðîñòü íàðîäíàÿ.
Ñëàâüñÿ, ñòðàíà, ìû ãîðäèìñÿ òîáîé!

Îò þæíûõ ìîðåé äî ïîëÿðíîãî êðàÿ
Ðàñêèíóëèñü íàøè ëåñà è ìîðÿ.
Îäíà òû íà ñâåòå, îäíà òû òàêàÿ,
Õðàíèìàÿ Áîãîì ðîäíàÿ çåìëÿ.

ÏÐÈÏÅÂ.
Ñëàâüñÿ, Îòå÷åñòâî íàøå ñâîáîäíîå -
Áðàòñêèõ íàðîäîâ ñîþç âåêîâîé!
Ïðåäêàìè äàííàÿ ìóäðîñòü íàðîäíàÿ.
Ñëàâüñÿ, ñòðàíà, ìû ãîðäèìñÿ òîáîé!

Îãðîìíûé ïðîñòîð äëÿ ìå÷òû è äëÿ æèçíè
Ãðÿäóùèå íàì îòêðûâàþò ãîäà.
Íàì ñèëû äàåò íàøà âåðíîñòü Îò÷èçíå -
Òàê áûëî, òàê åñòü è òàê áóäåò âñåãäà!

ÏÐÈÏÅÂ.
Ñëàâüñÿ, Îòå÷åñòâî íàøå ñâîáîäíîå -
Áðàòñêèõ íàðîäîâ ñîþç âåêîâîé!
Ïðåäêàìè äàííàÿ ìóäðîñòü íàðîäíàÿ.
Ñëàâüñÿ, ñòðàíà, ìû ãîðäèìñÿ òîáîé!


Beautiful words!!

   

 
L-188
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 8:51 pm

This isn't the first time that the russians have gotten pissy over the Olympics....

Remember they boycotted the 1984 games because they where pissed off that the US had boycotted the 1980 games as a protest to the Afghanistan invasion.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
LY744
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 9:25 pm

The US had other ways of protesting the Afghanistan invasion, as we were reminded a few months ago.  Big grin

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 9:47 pm

Hmmm... everyone gets pissed if they dont win... so if you dont want to be pissed... you better win! plus russia has won more metals than a whole bunch of countries already.

Twa902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 9:51 pm

Korea is threatening to leave now too.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:13 pm

In every sentence where you accuse Russia of whinging and complaining, insert "Canadian figure skaters" and there you have it; some of you idiots were supporting those whingers. After all, I have seen plenty of events where Canadian and American judges give high points to their own competitors, but lower points to competitors from Russia, Germany and Switzerland. But hey...that's different huh?

As usual, Aviatsiya, you have it wrong, but that's no surprise. The Canadian skaters themselves, from the moment the decision came down, handled themselves with absolute class, so don't blame them. Jamie Sale and David Pelletier said, from the beginning that they didn't control the judging, and that all they could do is skate the best they could, and that beyond that, it was beyond their control.

But guess what? I have no problem with the Canadians getting pissed over it-it was a snow job, and everyone who saw the two performances KNOWS it was a now job. If you think you have a legitimate beef, you have every right to protest such a decision. As far as I'm concerned, however, Russia is being the whiners here. They have been the beneficiaries over the years of all kinds of suspect judging and scoring in skating, basketball and boxing, and they have the nerve to get upset over two calls against them? I didn't hear the Canadians threaten to leave after the skating debacle? I didn't hear the U.S. threaten such action after the scandalous '72 mens basketball game, or the Roy jones jr. (again sorry, having trouble with some caps) travesty in the '88 games? So Russia can leave, for all I care.

As for the South korea leaving, again, let them. They were the benificiaries of one of the biggest farces ever in 1988, so they can cry all they want.

I imagine had this been the U.S. or Canada threatening to leave a games, you'd be squealing like a stuck pig over it.
 
L-188
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:22 pm

My only question is when are the members of the 1972 US basketball team going to get their gold medals?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Banco
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:40 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but as a non basketball fan I really don't know. What happened in 1972?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
L-188
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:47 pm

Click here but this little story doesn't do it justice Pissed
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 10:54 pm

Thats crazy!  Pissed

Thanks 4 the info L-188  Smile
 
Banco
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:02 pm

Ah. As you imply, that may have been an injustice, but the US didn't throw their toys out of the pram and go home.

Sport throws up these controversies from time to time, that's why we love it. Every nation can point to an event where they were robbed; the question is how you deal with it.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
JetService
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:10 pm

I hope Russia doesn't leave. Absent the French judge scandal (collusion with the RUSSIAN judge), I think it has gone pretty well. Sorry Korea, but your boy DID break the rules. Rules is rules. USA, China and Canada benefitted from the Aussie's CORRECT call.
"Shaddap you!"
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:12 pm

You're right, L-188, the story doesn't do it justice. In the first place, the Soviet Coach, according to replays, if he called time, did so with 1 second, not 3 seconds, so they were given two seconds back. Secondly, there was nothing wrong with the reset-the clock started only after the Soviet player touched the ball, and missed the shot.

It was the most blatant case of Cold-War politics in the Olympics. And back then, the IOC was controlled (and still is) by far left-wing sympathizers, who thought the USSR was somehow "enlightened", and gave them every break every chance they could get. Problem was, that up till then, the Soviet-lovers on the IOC couldn't get by the fact that the American athletes were simply better. This time, they found a way to rob the U.S., and it stand till this day.

 
L-188
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:30 pm

I think that is also half they problem their team is having nowadays.

Under the old soviet system the government was able to support the athletes and they didn't have to have jobs on the side. For all intesive purposes they where professionals since their only job was to train and there was no professional ranks to aspire to. The olympic team was the top of the pile.

I don't think they have been able to really handle the switch to an environment where they have to support their own events and participation. Prior to the fall of the Soviet Union the state sponsered everything and provided everything the athlete needed. Nowadays if they don't have the funding they can't just crawl to the state coffers and ask for it. They have to do without.

That they can remain competitve in that environment is admirable But by the same token, the fact that the true amature athletes of the west where able to hold their own is equally if not more laudable.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 5:50 am

perhaps judges should be picked from nations who don't
have participants in a particular event?
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:40 am

>>>And back then, the IOC was
controlled (and still is) by far left-wing sympathizers

Actually, Mr. Samaranch, who was the IOC´s president until very recently, was a minister in Franco´s fascist government in Spain. I you call that "far left wing" it says a lot about where you´re standing politically.

Daniel Smile
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:17 am

Seems that Putin is weighing into the issue..as the report below from the Russian Journal shows:

MOSCOW - Sports-mad Russians, led by the president, furiously rallied on Friday behind their Winter Olympic team which has threatened to pull out of the Games amid a torrent of allegations reminiscent of Cold War days.

The Russian team, feeling cheated of gold medals, said that judges and officials had victimised its athletes.

President Vladimir Putin, normally wary of getting dragged into controversy, added his voice to the mounting clamour, saying there had been biased decisions and judging at the Games.

Itar-Tass news agency quoted the Kremlin leader as saying the Russian team had been "subjected...to unfair and biased judging".

He was scathing of the new International Olympic Committee presidency under Jacques Rogge, and said "exceptional commercialisation" had played a role in the affair, running counter to Olympic principles. Putin has a very fair point here. The Olympics has become too commercialised, ever since the 1984 Olympics, and reached its "height" at the 1996 Coca-Cola...oops...1996 Atlanta Olympics

Putin, a keen sportsman and black-belt judo expert, also accused Russian Olympic officials of being too passive. And who said that Bush could beat Putin anyday?  Laugh out loud

The controversy was enough to make Russian nationalist bad boy and leading parliamentarian, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, put aside his pro-American change-of-heart and reverted to Uncle Sam-bashing. Cmon Vlad, I liked you so much when you were pro-American.  Insane

"The team must be recalled immediately, this evening," said Zhirinovsky, sounding much more like his old self by berating the U.S. hosts of the Winter Games.

"We should spit in their faces - the referees and those hosting the Games. We have never seen such a foul Olympics. This is merely a settling of accounts by criminal sports structures," he thundered in a table-thumping speech to parliament.

Fellow legislator Gennady Raikov of the pro-Kremlin People's Deputy Group said: "There is no need for our Olympic team to take part. Why watch continually as others wipe their feet on you?

"If the Americans need gold medals, we have a mint and can produce them here and bring them over a whole collection to keep them happy," he told the State Duma lower house which debated a resolution condemning the treatment of the Russian team.  Laugh out loud

One of the giants of winter sports, Russia has won just five golds and was upset early in the first full week of the 17-day Games by the furore over the judging of the pairs figure skating competition.

A Russian pair won the gold but after a protest by Canada and a public outcry in North American, the Canadians, who had come second, were awarded duplicate golds.

The final straw appeared to have been the Thursday ruling which forced the Russian team to withdraw its hotly-fancied team from a women's cross country relay following abnormal blood tests.

"Everything we are seeing in Salt Lake City, we can call the 'Wild Olympics in the Wild West'," government spokesman Alexei Volin said.  Laugh out loud

"It looks like revenge for Russian sporting successes achieved in honest competition," he added.

The heated confrontation will be taken to the ice rink later on Friday when Russia and the United States meet in what is likely to be a hard-fought ice hockey semifinal.

The anger has reached across Russia where sports-mad fans had been glued to their TV screens to follow the fortunes of their team in Salt Lake City.

"What we are seeing today is an absolute continuation of the Cold War," said respected film producer Nikita Mikhalkov, echoing a common view.

"What has caused this, I don't know, but maybe it is the Americans' fear of that terrible day of September 11 or the fear that we...will be able to climb out of the abyss we are in and become dangerous," he told ORT public television.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:44 am

OHHH!!! AHHH!!! We must be afraid of the up and coming powerhouse called Russia!!! Beware of the Crimson Tide!!!  Yeah sure

Why can't Russia just accept the fact that they suck this time around?

And that thing about the outcry of North America over the Canadian figure skating thing. Give me a break! Practiclly the whole world, except for Russia was against the judges decission.
 
Guest

America Doesn't Dummy Spit?

Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:47 am

Guys and gals

I honestly believe that the Russians have a point in case here. The refereeing at these Olympics, evident at the Russian-American ice hockey match, was a bit biased towards the American team. Maybe refereeing is something which has to undergo a major review in the future.

From the link given by L-188 above:

After a Soviet player heaved a desperation miss from half court, the U.S. began their celebration, which proved to be grossly premature.

When I read this I pissed myself. It was so funny because it cast my mind back to the 2000 Olympics in Sydney. In particular to the Women's Water Polo final between Australia and America. With one second on the clock, which was stopped, Australia had the ball from a distance just under half way out from the goal. The American team, and in particular the coach could be seen rejoicing on the sidelines. Not so much rejoicing a win, as the score was drawed which would have forced extra time. With one second on the clock, and the Americans on the sidelines rejoicing, the Australian girl throws the ball, and with such great force that it went thru 3 American team members (including the goalie) to hit the back of the net clinching a win for the Aussie girls. The display from the American coach was apprehensible.

But in the current case and the case of the American water polo team, it has been the coaches and officials which have been dummy spitting, not the athletes.

As to the 1972 Olympics, it was 30 years ago, but if you Yanks really want gold medals for it, go and speak to Gennady Raikov. I am sure he can organise to make some copies of the USSR's gold medals and send them to you  Laugh out loud
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:50 am

And that thing about the outcry of North America over the Canadian figure skating thing. Give me a break! Practiclly the whole world, except for Russia was against the judges decission.

Practically the whole word? Sorry to burst ya bubble there, but North America does not denote "practically the whole world". Maybe to you it does, but in reality it isn't.  Insane
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:50 am

Russia might as well leave. There is nothing left for them anyhow.
 
Spaceman
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 10:50 am

I do not think the short track program won by an American was a good call. The Korean was barely on the other track almost as though he was on the inside track and Ohno trys to squeez by him from the left. If Ohno went by him I suspect there will be a crash again like the first race. I think they should have a rerace in this situation rather than simply let the American won the gold. As for those people who said how the they couldn't take the lost as well as Ohno did on the first race, remember he did not lose completely he still had the silver metal.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 12:48 pm

This sounds like a sleep-over that went sour after someone got hurt during the royal rumble!

If Russia wants to leave let them go as well as any other country that wants to leave.

ps it was more then just North America that was calling for the investigation for the figure skaters.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 1:02 pm

Bye-bye crybabys.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 1:11 pm

Why shouldn't Aviatsiya side with Russia? He's a big a crybaby as these arses are making themselves to be.
 
LY744
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:16 pm

I reallly enjoyed the way CNN's Talk Back Live handled this topic yesterday. Usually they would have 4 guests/experts that would have different opinions on the issue at hand. This time, however, the only controversy was which one of them hates the "stupid russkies" more. Ahh... Good unbiased journalism...  Sad

Look around you people, and don't let your bias and prejudice prevent you from seeing other sides to different issues!


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
KROC
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sat Feb 23, 2002 11:26 pm

It's not the Russian National Anthem if Nickoli Volkov of 1980's WWF Fame isn't singing it!
 
avion
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 2:20 am

I think that if the medals have been awarded there should be no way to change that decision.
I can understant that since Canada could change the decisioin Russia thought, why shouldnt we?
And thats ok. Gold for Butyrskaia!


Tom
 
LY744
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 3:35 am

I think that the decision to award a second gold medal was not only unprecedented, but also extremely stupid, and put SLC 2002 in the running for the title of the worst Olympics ever.

I mean, common! Two gold medals? Didn't they realize what that will result in? Now everybody thinks they deserve a gold medal. I know that we all here in Canada would be proud of Canadian athletes no matter what. Who cares about medals, they were the best, and no one can take that away from them. That doesn't mean that the governing bodies should not do something to prevent such scandals from happening in the future (changing the judging system). If someone wants to change the results of a competition, the only way to do so should be a re-match. Not whining.

As a result, now we've got the Russian and the Latvians asking for a gold medal for their athletes. Who could blame them? As for the threats by the Russians and South Koreans to leave the olympics, they gotta be kidding. As if anyone would care if the Russians were to leave, most would probably celebrate, everybody hates them anyway.  Sad

IMO, the Russians were indeed discriminated (somewhat) throughout the events, with the "special" drug testing etc. I thought those days were over, I guess not...


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Alpha 1
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 4:17 am

I was just watching NBC, and Jim Lampley and Bill Clement were discussing men's hockey. They were discussing the Bronze Medal game that will pit Russia vs. Belarus, and Lampley asked Clement if Russia would even play hard, after all the fuss the ROC (Russian Olympic Committee) has made the last few days, would it be a distraction.

Bill Clement made a comment-to paraphrase it-"It's bad enough when you go out to a nice dinner, and the kids whine and cry incessantly; it's even worse when it's the adults acting that way. What the Russian Olympic Committe is doing is, at best, disturbing, at worst, it's sickening".

I was SO happy to hear a commentator say that out loud. Russia, as a country, should be absolutely ashamed of the attitude that their Olympic Committee has shown since midweek. For the most part, it's athletes have handled the fiasco superbly, and with a lot of class, which is great to see.

Case in point: after the loss to the U.S., Russian Head Coach Slava Fetisov said, "There's not much you can do about it right now. An agreement's been signed that is designed to have a final between Canada and the USA. You have this final, you have NHL referees. ... They live here and they know the North American players." (Duh, Slava-ALL the Russian players LIVE and PLAY in North America!!). After he said that, Russian Goalie Nikolai Khabibulin said "The refereeing all in all was quite fair, and I think we shouldn't try to find fault in them."

The Russians are acting like my 2 1/2 year old son. They whine and cry when they don't get their way. Neither their pairs skating team, nor their womans skater deserved the Gold; the Cross-Country skiing team was caught cheeting; the hockey team lost fair and square. They need to act like adults, or maybe next time, they just shouldn't show up.

 
Dash8King
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:18 am

"the Russians were indeed discriminated (somewhat) throughout the events, with the "special" drug testing etc."

Thats when the Russians should have proved them wrong instead they were cuaght cheating
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Aviatsiya

Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:32 am

I'm sorry, but there is a difference. In the case of Jamie Sale and Marc Pelletier, the French judge admitted that she had been pressured into giving higher marks for the Russian couple. That is a big difference from just complaining about unfair judging.

If you want unfair officiating, look at the Canada-US gold medal women's hockey game!
 
Dash8King
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RE: Aviatsiya

Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:08 am

Now that judge is saying she was pressured into voting for Canada what a load of crap
 
L-188
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:08 pm

And look at Ohno's comments after getting DQ'd today, "I was kind of holding back and he got too close," Ohno said. "It's all right."

Much more well behaved then that whiner from Korean. He could use a lesson in civility from Ohno.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BH346
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:13 pm

I agree, Ohno showed great sportsmanship. Kim(The Korean who was disqualified), on the other hand, didn't. He threw his own flag on the ground after being disqualified. This was disrespectful to his own country.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
L-188
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:15 pm

In case anybody didn't see it. We are talking about two different races.

Ohno was DQ'd in a later race.

Was it the 500K semi's? I don't know for sure.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
BH346
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:33 pm

Yes, it was the 500k.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:43 pm

It was the 500m, not 500k, that would be a long race  Smile And Canada cleaned up, gold for Gagnon, silver for Guilmette!

However, people are wrong calling Ohno cocky..he showed great sportsmanship instead of blaming his mistake on someone else.
 
Guest

RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 12:46 pm

Boris the Bullet Dodger says it wont happen.

 
LY744
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RE: Russia Threatening To Leave Olympics

Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:55 pm

"Thats when the Russians should have proved them wrong instead they were cuaght cheating"

My understanding is that the testers, who paid special attention to Russian athletes, as usual (so much for "random" checks!), found irregularities in the blood of the athletes. These irregularities, could be a sign of the use of illegal substances, they did not find any actual proof of the use of such substances. I admit that it is quite suspicious that all the skiing team had such irregularities. But then again, they may have all gone out to eat in a fast food restaurant the night before...


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it

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