777236ER
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Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:28 am

We all know and some of us love Israel's current policy of having a very tough stance on Palestinians, and for the most part, Sharon has (had?) a lot of support for his stance.

However:

1. It isn't working! More and more Palestians are killed by this policy, and more and more Isralies die! It's been said before, and it's a bit of a cliché but it IS a vicious cycle. Palestian suicide bomber causing Israeli attack causing palestian suicide bomber etc. It seems that the Palestians can't/won't stop the cycle, so why doesn't Israel at least try? The military approach OBVIOUSLY doesn't work (as the last few days have shown) and gives the Palestians a bigger excuse for what they are doing.

2. Isreal wants to be a big world power. Fair enough. But how many western-world superpowers are involved in tit-for-tat military attacks with it's neighbour? Israel continually critises the US and the EU goes against the wishes of these super-powers continually. Israel should start respecting the rest of the world and actually pay attention to what the US and the EU says.

BTW, i'm not supporting the Palestian attacks, as some of you will probably say, and if you don't agree, argue instead of just calling me an anti-Israel idiot.
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Guest

RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:59 am

The military approach OBVIOUSLY doesn't work (as the last few days have shown) and gives the Palestians a bigger excuse for what they are doing.

Well do you have another idea? And there is no excuse for bombing children. None. It shows these Palestinian terrorists for the animals they are.

Isreal wants to be a big world power

What are you talking about? Israel wants to live in peace and prosperity. Period.

how many western-world superpowers are involved in tit-for-tat military attacks with it's neighbour?

Well how many "western-world superpowers" are being terrorized daily in this savage and putrid way? How many countries at all actually?

Israel continually critises the US

Again, what are you talking about???

EU goes against the wishes of these super-powers continually.

"these super-powers"? Which super-powers, what are you talking about???

Israel should start respecting the rest of the world and actually pay attention to what the US and the EU says.

Oh please, first of all israel will pay attention to the needs of its citizens to live in peace and prosperity before paying attention to the "rest of the world". What does the "rest of the world" know better about the mideast conflict that Israel doesn't? What has the "rest of the world" done for Israel that would make Israel have any interest in following their recomendations or taking their advice?

Are the Palestinians "respecting the rest of the world" and ending deadly terroristic suidice bombings in children's dance halls and pizza parlors?

Israel and the US have an extraordinarily close relationship so I think its fair to say Israel pays very close attention to what comes from Washington. Trust me on that  Big grin

argue instead of just calling me an anti-Israel idiot.

How's that for discussion? And I agree name calling is a waiste of time and makes the accuser look like an idiot.

TNNH
 
777236ER
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 4:19 am

What are you talking about? Israel wants to live in peace and prosperity. Period.

Are you saying Israel doesn't want to be a major player on the world stage? Sharon and others would jump at the possibility.

Well how many "western-world superpowers" are being terrorized daily in this savage and putrid way? How many countries at all actually?

Spain - ETA, UK - IRA (in the past). Both terrorist organisations have killed dozens, and at times were killing very regularly.

"these super-powers"? Which super-powers, what are you talking about???

How many times has Israel ignored the US when she's called for more negotiations and less violence?

"these super-powers"? Which super-powers, what are you talking about???

Typo on my behalf. Should have read, "...the US and the EU, and goes against the wishes of these super-powers continually.

Oh please, first of all israel will pay attention to the needs of its citizens to live in peace and prosperity before paying attention to the "rest of the world". What does the "rest of the world" know better about the mideast conflict that Israel doesn't? What has the "rest of the world" done for Israel that would make Israel have any interest in following their recomendations or taking their advice?

The rest of the world has done quite a lot for Israel. Are you saying that without support from other countries, Israel would survive? Israel should stop being so arrogant towards other countries, spefically the US and those in the EU.

Are the Palestinians "respecting the rest of the world" and ending deadly terroristic suidice bombings in children's dance halls and pizza parlors?

Yes, I agree the Palestians are to blame for the majority, but Israel isn't blameless. The current policy isn't working, and Israel should do all it can to stop these attacks from happening, even if it has to stop the attacks and call in foreign negotiators to help.

Israel and the US have an extraordinarily close relationship so I think its fair to say Israel pays very close attention to what comes from Washington. Trust me on that

Yes, I realise just how close relations are, yet there have been quite a few instances where Israel has just ignored pressure from the US and others and gone ahead with policies that have angered the US and others.
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Goodbye
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:37 am

EVERYONE seems to be so sorry for the Israeli people, but when the Israelis SHELL a car taking a MOTHER AND HER CHILDREN to school, no one gives a rats arse. The ONLY people who can stop this are the Israelis. It is OBVIOUS the Palestinians will not stop this violence.

 
Alpha 1
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:45 am

1. Israel can ONLY be a regional power, not a world power 777236ER. I don't know why you think they want to be a world power. They are too small, physically, to be so.

2. Like Twaneedsnohelp said, what are YOUR alternatives. You're awful fast and loose condemning Israel for their policies, yet you offer no suggestions as to the alternative. If you suggest they stop defending themselves, they'll tell you what we'll tell you-go jump in a nice, deep, cold lake.

3. And Goodbye, as usual, you're all wrong, but that's nothing new. Israel could stop the attacks RIGHT NOW, yet the attacks from the scumbags-your friends at Hamas and Hezbollah, would NOT STOP!! If you think they would, you're a bigger nut than I thought. Actually, I have a sneaking suspicion you don't WANT these thugs to stop.

4. There's a difference between an innocent dying in a bombing from an airplane or helicopter, Goodbye, and in someone strapping a bomb to themselves, then parking themself in between dozens of civilians. But you're so far into the camp of the terrorists yourself that you can't see that.
 
tbar220
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:47 am

*After ignoring Goodbye's post*

I think its a Catch-22 for the Israeli's. A lose lose situation. What are they supposed to do?

I think they have every right to retaliate against the Palestinians for all the terrorist attacks against their civilians. But this in no way stops the terrorist attacks, as we can obviously see.

But then if Israel doesn't carry out its military action, it just allows the terrorists to "breed" in the West Bank, and you won't see any decrease in terrorism, perhaps even worse terrorism. Its been shown in the past that even when they are at peace, the Palestinians continue to carry out terrorist attacks.

So what do they do? They lost no matter what.
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Guest

RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:32 pm

"It is OBVIOUS the Palestinians will not stop this violence. "

That's great, and clear...





"Israel's current policy of having a very tough stance on Palestinians"


- a "very tough stance" has been taken against the Palestinians' violence in ... Jordan in 1970, with 5 to 20 000 dead; a "very tough stance" has been taken against the Syrian Islamists in Hama in 1982, when this city had been razed to the ground (thousands died in just a few days).
 
racko
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:50 pm

Please remember, Israel also kills innocent humans, and they kill more than the Palestinians kill (2/3 vs. 1/3).

And don't who provoked the current war, it was Mr.
Sharon himself. Israelis murder Palestinians as Palestinians murder Israelis.

Can you tell me why the life of a Palestinian is worth less than the life of an Israeli ?

And please, don't forget that the Israelis suppress the Palestinians for a very long time. It's nearly impossible to get a good job in Israel as a Palestinian, so the Palestinians get poorer and poorer. The Israelis destroy their airports, they destroy their radio stations, they destroy their houses, they destroy EVERYTHING the Palestinians have.
 
Guest

RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:21 pm

That's interesting to see that people like Racko know the situation better than the Palestinian Information minister himself...who declared that Arafat decided to launch the "intifadah" immediately after the Camp David summit in July 2000...


***


And BTW, I don't count as "victims" the more than 130 suicide murderers who have blown themselves up among Israeli babies, children, teenagers and entire families, nor the armed terrorists killed on their way to commit an attack...
 
avi
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:56 pm

It seems that the Palestians can't/won't stop the cycle, so why doesn't Israel at least try?

Why do you say that?

Last May, 10 months ago, Israel (Sharon!!!) declared a ceasefire and called the Palestinians to do the same.
The Palestinian response was a series of attack and its climax was the suicide attack in Tel-Aviv that left 21 people, all but 2 under 21 years old dead!

What was Israel response to this attack?
Nothing at all. Israel didn’t attack the Palestinians and let the ceasefire another chance.
We all know what came out of this.
Israel even didn’t response military to the Jerusalem restaurant attack last August that left 15 people dead, 5 of them from the same family.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad will never recognize Israel even if Israel will retreat to the 67 lines.
It is up the Palestinians to end the terror attacks or there will never be a peace in here and what Arafat does today, is making sure that this is exactly what will happen.
You may want to look how Jordan and Egypt solve the terrorism problem in there countries.
Arafat had a golden opportunity in 1996 to do it, but as the man who never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity, he missed it and we all pay the price.

Goodbye, what happened in Ramalla shouldn’t happened and Israel apology for it. Can you tell me when the Palestinian apology for anything? (and they mean it)
A suicide bomber is selecting the people he wants to kill. Last Saturday he choose a 23 years old mother with her 7 months old baby, a couple with their 7 and 3 years old daughters and 15 and 12 years old and 18 months old nephews. He went on small children and you can’t get lower than this.
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EmiratesLover
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:38 pm

Why doesnt Israel just end it's illegal and brutal military occupation against Palestinians? It would be so much nicer that way.
 
Guest

RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:23 am

Why doesnt Israel just end it's illegal and brutal military occupation against Palestinians? It would be so much nicer that way.


- so that many more Israeli discos, busses, restaurants, malls, synagogues and possibly planes can be successfully destroyed; it would really be much nicer, and the crowd in Ramallah would have more occasions to (shamefully) celebrate in the streets...

TERRORISM HAS TO WIN, that's your hateful message, Emiratelover!

 
avi
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:54 am

Emirate, did you read my post?
Don’t you understand that Israel withdrawal from the west bank and Gaza strip won’t solve anything.
Don’t you understand that Arafat doesn’t want (and never did) to fight terrorism as Jordan and Egypt did in the past?
As long as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Tanzim (who did almost all the attacks in the past month) won’t disarmed, there will be no quiet here no mater where are the Israeli soldiers. Arafat is not doing it and even worse, his acts will prevent from his successor any chance of doing it. Now imagine where this area is going to.
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Stratofish
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Thu Mar 07, 2002 1:24 am

First:
Every sane human brain knows they have to change that *put a negative superlative here* policy!

Furthermore:
A complete withdrawal of Israeli troops (and settlers!!!) from Gaza and the West Bank will help Arafat to gain new political ground among his ppl so there can be actions and laws imposed to finally end the fighting. But by destroying Arafat (politically) there is no chance for him or his successor to end the violence. It´s all in Israeli hands really! Btw, he is the elected president of the Palestinians, how dare Israel to say we want anoter head to "negotiate" (how they call what they do) with??? A little respect from Israel towards other peoples would help.


"There's a difference between an innocent dying in a bombing from an airplane or helicopter, Goodbye, and in someone strapping a bomb to themselves, then parking themself in between dozens of civilians."

Ehm, so it´s totally irrelevant that it´s an innocent??? If you would be killed by some stranger who shoots you or sets off a strapped on bomb next to you it would be a crime, but if you accidentally get killed by (foreign) army personel using planes or helocopters it would be ok???  Nuts  Nuts  Nuts
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avi
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Thu Mar 07, 2002 2:29 am

A complete withdrawal of Israeli troops (and settlers!!!) from Gaza and the West Bank will help Arafat to gain new political ground among his ppl so there can be actions and laws imposed to finally end the fighting.

You are wrong, but what can I tell you, we know him.

Btw, he is the elected president of the Palestinians, how dare Israel to say we want anoter head to "negotiate"

Israel does nothing to replace Arafat (because he is a Palestinian "elected") but nothing good will come out of him. Even the USA, EU and Arab leaders know that.
We have to sit and wait.

Long live the B747
 
lehpron
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Thu Mar 07, 2002 4:21 am

Perhaps Sharon has control over his people, I don't think Arafat has any authority of his, especially if he's under house arrest. How do you stop a mob of angry people if they will not even listen to the one person that currently represents them in that part of the world?

Arafat needs to step down and let someone else into the ring, maybe there can be *some* progress if there is someone closer to the crowd.

Just a thought.
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Guest

RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:44 am

have any ideas who?

the palestinians don't either. they are devoid of any qualified leadership.
 
tbar220
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RE: Should Israel Change Their Policy?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:50 am

Just to show that Arafat and the PA have no control, the Balata refugee camp has never been entered by the Palestinian Authority. That's fifteen square miles of rule by absolutely nobody. When Israel has repeatedly asked the PA to do something, they have done nothing. So Israel took actions into its own hands and "swept clean" the camp of all the terrorists and bomb making factories, although it is impossible to complete the job 100%.
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