racko
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2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:34 am

 Sad

2 German & 3 Danish soldiers died today in Kabul after 2 SA-3 missiles detonated on a demolition range too early.
There are also several wounded.

The english newspages have no news up yet, but a spokesman of the german ministry of defense told this the press 10 minutes ago.
 
racko
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:36 am

Here is a German newsarticle:

Erste deutsche Opfer
Fünf Soldaten der Friedenstruppe getötet


Bei einer schweren Explosion auf einem Sprengplatz bei Kabul sind zwei Soldaten aus Deutschland und drei aus Dänemark getötet worden. Das teilte der Generalinspekteur der Bundeswehr, Harald Kujat auf einer Pressekonferenz des Bundesverteidigungsminsiteriums mit. Sieben weitere Soldaten der Schutztruppe seien verletzt worden.

Es handele sich bei den Opfern um erfahrene Soldaten der Kampfmittelberäumung, die dabei waren, Fundmunition zur Explosion zur bringen. Offenbar erfolgte die Detonation zu früh, obwohl laut Kujat "alle Verfahren ordnungsgemäß eingehalten wurden". Über Alter oder Herkunft der deutschen Opfer wollte Kujat zunächst keine Angaben machen, da zunächst die Angehörigen informiert werden sollen. Verteidigungsminister Rudolf Scharping (SPD), der auf dem Flug nach Dschibouti ist, wurde informiert und kehrt sofort zurück.

Die Bundeswehr ist derzeit mit knapp 1000 Soldaten an der "International Security Assistance Force" (ISAF) in Afghanistan beteiligt, die in der Hauptstadt Kabul und im Umland zur Sicherheit beitragen und damit die Übergangsregierung unter Ministerpräsident Hamid Karsai unterstützen.

Zudem ist eine unbekannte Zahl von Spezialkräften an anderen Einsätzen in Afghanistan beteiligt. Das Ministerium hat bislang nicht bestätigt, dass sich diese an der von den USA geführten Offensive gegen Stellungen der radikal-islamischen Taliban und der Organisation El Kaida im Osten des Landes beteiligen. Das Bundestagsmandat erlaubt den Einsatz von bis zu 100 Soldaten des Kommandos Spezialkräfte (KSK).

Vor dieser Nachricht hatte der SPD-Verteidigungsexperte Peter Zumkley eine Unterrichtung von Parlament und Öffentlichkeit nach Abschluss der Mission in Aussicht gestellt - es sei denn, die Bundesregierung sehe sich dazu bei einem "schwerwiegenden Ereignis" veranlasst.

And here an English news, 1 minute old:

"Five EU soldiers killed in Kabul blast

BERLIN, March 6 (Reuters) - The German Defence Ministry says two German and three Danish members of the international peacekeeping force in Afghanistan have been killed in an accident at a munitions site in Kabul.

"There have been five deaths, of which two were German and three were Danish," German army chief Harald Kujat told a news conference on Wednesday.

Kujat said three other troops were seriously injured and there were a number of minor casualties. The cause of the accident was unclear but it occurred while troops were trying to destroy SA-3 anti-aircraft missiles at the site.

Around 1,250 German troops are taking part in the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan, with 850 based in Kabul.

An unspecified number of German KSK special forces are also in Afghanistan alongside U.S. and British troops in operations searching for al Qaeda forces. "
 
Alpha 1
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:38 am

God rest their souls, and comfort their loved ones. A truly sad story.
 
ryanb741
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:44 am

RIP, and also to the US forces who were killed yeterday  Sad
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
 
airsicknessbag
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:46 am

But not in combat. German soldiers die in accidents (mainly cars) all the time, both abroad and at home, and nobody notices. Were there any combat related German fatalities at all since we started those abroad missions?
Daniel
 
racko
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 1:05 am

Hm, there were 1 or 2 fatalities in Serbia, but i think that was also an accident. And a German KSK has dangerously wounded while hunting a serbian ex-leader who detonated himself with a grenade. But i think he survived it.
 
Scotty
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 1:20 am

But how can this be? Because I have just been looking at another thread in which our friends in the US accuse the Europeans of not standing by America in her hour of need???

Or is it that our soldiers are good enough to die for Uncle Sam but that our steel is not good enough to build his bridges and ships??

Scotty
 
NoUFO
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 2:40 am

No need for cynicism, Scotty.

Regards,
NoUFO
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GDB
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 4:06 am

Very sad, peacekeeping is dangerous.
Slightly ironic they tragically died away from the main combat zone, when specialist German (and Norwegian) mountain troops are involved in the attacks against those Al-Queda forces in Eastern Afghanistan.
On that subject, a US military advisor on the UK's Channel 4 News, admitted that it had been a mistake to trust too much of the fighting at Tora Bora in December, to local Afghan forces.
Much of the Al-Queda simply paid them more than the US did, and were allowed to slip away.
Now they had reformed and it's kicked off again.
Pretty steep learning curve in this conflict.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 4:44 am

This is the worst tragedy ever involving Danish UN humanitarian forces ever since the UN was founded. In recent years we have in addition lost 6 soldiers in Bosnia and Kosovo, also by various accidents.

Denmark is involved in two ways in Afghanistan. We have regular military forces there, including a few F-16 planes - under US command.

And we have UN humanitarian forces. Our units are specialized in land mine sweeping, and they use very special Danish designed machines to clean out land mines.

Today they had the task - together with German units - to dismantle a few Russian SA-3 missiles, and something went terribly wrong.

Hopefully they can in the fuuture rely on assistance from Russian specialists for that task.

A German Air Force Airbus plane is on the way to provide assistance and transport back home to the injured soldiers. I have heard of no such Danish action, so I assume that Germany and Denmark work together for this task too. We do not have any long range ambulance planes in Denmark.

Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Scotty
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 5:48 am

Apologies NoUFO. No cynicism intended. Instead, it is a clear demonstration that European/NATO/EU troops are playing their full part in this operation in support of the US, to the best abilities of each of the countries concerned.

Hence my comment that there are other views elsewhere in which some people think that Afghanistan has been liberated by the US alone. They are not and if any good at all can come from this tragic event, it is to highlight that fact.

Scotty
 
PanAm747
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:17 am

>>Instead, it is a clear demonstration that European/NATO/EU troops are playing their full part in this operation in support of the US, to the best abilities of each of the countries concerned.<<

Agreed

And since some of these militaries are quite small compared to the US, the effects of these circumstances will be felt harder inside of their military and country.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
PanAm747
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US General Proposed Poisoning Afghan Food

Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:30 am

I'm glad this was stopped before it even started. I would be embarrased and most of all angry if my country did this.

If the article is correct, then I am proud of the NSC member, Condi Rice and Rumsfeld, they did the right thing and sttod by the values this country believes in.

From NBC News:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/719643.asp

[Defense Secretary Donald] Rumsfeld still wanted the president to have a detailed briefing. Special operations were going to be enormously important, he was sure, so a two-star general was sent from the Special Operations Command to brief the president.
[National Security Adviser Condoleezza] Rice and Frank Miller, the senior NSC staffer for defense, went with the president to the Pentagon. Before the briefing, Miller reviewed the classified slide presentation prepared for Bush and got a big surprise.
One slide about special operations in Afghanistan said: Thinking Outside the Box-Poisoning Food Supply. Miller was shocked and showed it to Rice. The United States doesn’t know how to do this, Miller reminded her, and we’re not allowed. It would effectively be a chemical or biological attack-clearly banned by treaties that the United States had signed, including the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention.
Rice took the slide to Rumsfeld. “This slide is not going to be shown to the president of the United States,” she said.
Rumsfeld agreed. “You’re right,” he said.
Pentagon officials said later that their own internal review had caught the offending slide and that it never would have been shown to the president or to Rumsfeld.

Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
PanAm747
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:36 am

oops, I meant to post it as a new topic, I got it now.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
racko
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:54 am

Here are some pictures of the Airbus A310 MRT MedEvac which will take the wounded soldiers to Germany. They can take 6 people who need intensive care to a special hospital in Germany. I think they are unique worldwide. I think they will carry the Danish soldiers, too.

One of the few things the Bundeswehr can be proud of  Smile :




 
prebennorholm
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 7:37 am

Racko, thanks for bringing my men back home.

This A310 Med Evac plane is really impressive. All we could manage would be a chartered civil airliner, or a (very noisy internaly) C-130 Herc, or a Challerger fishery patrol a/c hastily fittet with stretchers.

Regards, Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
prebennorholm
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:04 am

Memory treated me wrong. The Royal Danish Air Force does in fact have some sort of MedEvac plane.

When our presence in former Yugoslavia became evident, then we produced a sound isolated "container" which fits exactly inside the cargo hold of a C-130 Hercules. The inside of the container is a fairly well equipped "MedEvac plane".

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that it will not be used this time. All practical things indicate that Luftwaffe will help us.

Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
racko
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Thu Mar 07, 2002 9:53 pm

The wounded soldiers have been brought to cologne by an A310 MRT MedEvac plane. The Germans will stay there in a hospital, the Danes will be carried to Denmark. All survivors are out of mortal danger by now.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:01 am

One very seriously injured Danish soldier was immediately taken by helicopter to a hospital in Koblenz. He suffered serious wounds in his face, eyes, chest and stomach region. And serious burns.

The other two injured Danes suffered little more than burns on their hands. They walked to a RDAF VIP plane (a Challenger or a Gulfstream III) which took them to Vaerloese Air Base where they landed one hour ago.

The Army asked the press to please stay away from the air base.

The coffins with the five dead soldiers will arrive to Germany on another plane tomorrow or Saturday.

Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Guest

RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:18 am

very sad, how did this happen??

they were doing good work too.

what does the usaf use to evacuate wounded troops?
 
prebennorholm
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:06 am

How it happened? Nobody knows for sure. An 8 men strong Danish/German investigation committee with various sorts of experts are on the way to Kabul.

The USAF has a fleet of Douglas C-9A MedEvac (DC-9) planes. I think that the C-9A also carries the name "Nightingale", but I'm not sure.

I would assume that they also have longer range transport planes which can be converted to MedEvac rather fast.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
prebennorholm
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:33 am

The Danish midnight news (GMT+1) told that the soldier, who was rushed by helicopter to the hospital in Koblenz, is in critical condition, and his situation had worsened during the flight from Kabul to Cologne.

His condition did not allow further transport to Denmark. He needed immediate intensive care.

They did not say so, but it sounded like a warning that we shall not be too surprised if the death toll rises to six.

Preben Norholm
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
racko
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RE: 2 German + 3 Danish Solidiers Dead In Kabul

Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:40 am

Yes, i saw the pictures too. They were even running when they carried him from the plane to a helicopter.
I hope he will survive it.

The victims will arrive in Germany tomorrow, the Danes will then be flown back to Denmark on a Danish plane.

German army chief Kujat said that the report of the investigation team can be expected within 2 days.

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