lehpron
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Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:28 am

This topic actually spun off my response to Galiliee's post about UFO's, I think this is just about the stupidist thing ever when people believe scientists so much that they act like they speak the worldly truth.

All Einstein did was prove that light can go up to the speed of light, not that we could not. As of 2002, we currnetly are moving too darn slow to make any accurate assumption about going near the speed of light, and moreover we will not be able to do anything to prove that we can or cannot until we are able to get with 80% of light.

How do I figure? For decades before the X-1, there were mathematical proofs designed around the idea that we could not pass the speed of sound. Engineers and scientists at the time based it around the drag/compression data they were getting in both early wind tunnels and actual flight tests. (Bare in mind, when we first started flying no one thought we would even approach the idea of problems near the speed of sound)

Currently the only way to prove Einstein's ideas is by the apparent time distortion as we accelerate faster and faster. Last generation's dilema was the sound barrier, this generation's dilema is time distortion, do you get the idea? We are no where near a percent of a percent of lightspeed; we cannot discuss actually flying at or beyond light, and since we should learn from our mistakes, we cannot dismiss the idea of passing it either.

So all of ya'll who act like another great scientist will never come along and Einstein is a God, excuse the pun, go to hell. What he says should not be taken without questioning.

Don't treat science like it is a religion!
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
4holer
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:46 am

Was too!!!!!!
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
764ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:52 am

Dude, you're not a god either... so why should I listen to everything you say?

Of course I'm not a god, so I guess you won't take this seriously...
 
flyf15
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:53 am

How about this one for you...

Don't treat religion like a science.
 
killjoy
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:15 am

In case anyone's interested in how time dilation has been demonstrated:

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae433.cfm

(or just google for it)

Oh, and who cares if we can't achieve the speed of light in normal space. As soon as we discover subspace we'll be able to do it anyway Big grin .

Now hold on while I go fire up the quantum slipstream drive in my basement...
 
777236ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:16 am

I didn't expect this from you Lephron. Look, maths is great. It might just be me but I think that every element of maths is amazing.

How simple Newton's second law is in hindsight. Resultant force = mass x acceleration (not F=ma!!> And how simple it is to prove. Come to think of it, something as blindly obvious as Newton's first law helps us with so much in maths and mechanics.

I agree, some of the higher physical and mathematical models are dubious, but remember, once something is PROVED it is true. A lot of higher physical and mathetmatical models make a lot of assumptions, and aren't proved. They're thought to be true, that doesn't mean they are.

Simple things like Newton's Laws are the most important and revolutionary things that mechanics has ever seen, and can be proved without a shadow of a doubt.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Ralgha
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:24 am

So what you're saying is...........it is GUARENTEED that there is NO place in ALL of EXISTANCE where Newton's Laws are violated? I tend to disagree, Newtons laws are a construct that we proved using our own math based on our own observations of our infintesimally small corner of existance. Just because we say it is doesn't mean it is. Big thumbs up
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PANYNJ
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:26 am

yeah Lehpron, you better hope this thread gets deleted quick, it makes you out to sound like a complete idiot, but I'm sure your not, just a little confused maybe.
 
killjoy
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:51 am

"Don't treat science like it is a religion!"

Just thought I'd comment on that line. I'm unsure what you meant by it, as you may either imply that science is inferior to religion, or that treating it like a religion will degrade it. This is however what I think:

Treating science like religion is one thing I will never do, for science is something much better than religion.

All religions are based on superstitions and fear, most of the time even denouncing anything different. Science is based on fact and intelligent extrapolation, while at the same time admitting that not all is known.

While religious people will fall back on arbitrary pseudo-axioms, scientific minds will choose the most probable solution. The scientist is not always right, but at least he has chosen the best possible alternative, and will thus presumably succeed more often than someone who relies on religion.

Most importantly of all, he is not ignorant.


"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide."
 
tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:29 am

I have to agree with Lephron on this, except the "go to hell" comment.

Science has always been meant to go leaps and bounds and go to places where man has never even thought possible. Do we know what the future holds? Do we truly know exactly how the universe "works"? And what if in the future, somebody with a mind greater than Albert Einstein's proves that moving at the speed of light or faster is even possible?

All I can think of is..."How cool is that?" Of course, I read a lot of science fiction novels, so I got lots of that stuff in my head. But I think that accepting some limits on scientific discovery is a bad thing. Its like saying "Since Albert Einstein said that we cant go faster than the speed of light, we cant! Period!" Why not try to find some way to do it? Its kind of like scientists still trying to find a way to get matter at absolute zero, even if its been proven impossible to do so.

Science and scientific discovery is an amazing thing, and I hope I'm alive long enough to see all the amazing things that will happen in the next century.
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tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:37 am

Amazing to me is that Einstein was one of the smartest persons around, not just in the scientific mind, but in the logical mind. Here are just some quotes of his. Not to mention that he had some great beliefs on religion.

"It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure."

"Gravity cannot be held responsible for people falling in love."

"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like two hours that's relativity."

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

"God doesn't play dice with the universe."

"God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean."

"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish."

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

For more, check this website out.

http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html
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777236ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:38 am

A lot of those are misquotes. Especially the dice one. He never said that.
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tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:39 am

Erm....how would you know?
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764ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:41 am

Well even if he did say the dice one, it's not 'brilliant,' it's wrong.
 
tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:46 am

Geez, its just a quote, there's no "right" or "wrong" about it, its just an opinion.

And there's no "right" or "wrong" especially when talking about a sticky thing like religion.
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Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:55 am

764er, He did say it. Mind explaining why you think God plays dice with the universe.
 
tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:04 am

Let's not turn this thread into an argument about God and religion, start another thread about that.

Let's stay on topic please. Thanks
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764ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:05 am

Ok, now you're wrong. Let's say he really did say it... A statement like that is not an opinion. That quote is not about religion anyway - even if he does mention god. It's about certainty, uncertainty and randomness in physics and the universe. It's an easy to understand phrase that conveys what his research found. "God" is there for lack of a better term. I guess he could have used "whatever created the universe does not play dice," but that would not have had nearly the impact and it might well offend some people. Of course saying "God" may offend some people, but oh well... After Einstein, it has been shown that 'god does play dice with the universe,' meaning there is uncertainty and randomness in the universe especially at the quantum level. Tell me there's no uncertainty the next time you can measure the exact velocity AND position of a particle at the same time. Or when you can "know" the position of an electron in an atom rather than just knowing what the probability is that it will be in a certain place... won't happen.
 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:08 am

Don't treat religion like a science.
Don't treat science like it is a religion

I've gotta throw my 2 cents in here.

My personal opinion is that there is really no distinction between science and religion. I believe in God, and I love science. To me, science is a method of explaining how God has done what he has done. Take, for example, the classic "evolution vs. creation" debate. Some people say that it was evolution. Some people say that it was creation, and to suggest otherwise is evil. I disagree. I say it could be both. I believe that God did create the Earth, and evolution may have been the method he used. (I know it says 6 days in the Bible, but we don't know if these were actual days, or just symbolic of other designated spaces of time. The Bible is not a chronology of the earth, nor is it a "how to" manual for creating earth-like planets.) I also believe that God created plants and animals. We have an idea on how He did it through the science of biology. I believe that scientists are inpired. After all, it says in the scriptures "The glory of God is intelligence."

I guess my point is that the science vs. religion debate is a false dilema. So, Einstien was not a God, but he was definitely inspired by One.

'Speed
 
777236ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:10 am

Einstein never said "God doesn't play dice" despite the fact that that was what the work of his final years tried to show. He was upset that quantum theory predicted randomness at the quantum level, which he felt spoilt the universe (as he vied it). He spent his final years trying to disprove this, and failed.

764er, although there is uncertainty and randomness in the universe in general (well, there isn't, but I'm not gonna explain universal models, probability etc), it's not that Einstein was upset about. It was quantum randomness, which can't be pridicted at all.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:12 am

777236ER, I still don't understand how you are so sure that Einstein didn't quote that. Mind showing me?
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777236ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:16 am

Erm, I'm not gonna find the source right now, but quite a few scientific journals have run articles about it over the past few years. You can believe that he said it if you want, I'm sure he didn't though.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:40 am

Alright, I will set the record straight. This is the exact quote from Einstein, "I, at any rate, am convinced that He is not playing at dice..." This quote was taken from Not A Chance by RC Sproul. Check it out!
Now, does it matter if he said it or not? In my opinion, no, it does not. But logically speaking, it makes sense. To say that religion is not based off of logic is, well, ignorant. Logic can and does explain God, however, a universe without God cannot and will not be explained by logic, which by the way has been discussed to death in this forum.
 
777236ER
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:43 am

Futher logic explains things like quantum theories, which tend to disprove the (also logical, in your view) theory of a god.

Confusing, no?
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jkelley480
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:10 am

Einstein's General Ralativity theory is actually very bizarre and counter-intuitive in many respects. The (seemingly) logical consequences of his theory are enough to make anyone a skeptic, IMHO.
 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 8:14 am

Galilee wrote:

>>Logic can and does explain God, however, a universe without God cannot and will not be explained by logic, which by the way has been discussed to death in this forum.

Well, you should qualify that: Logic can and does explain God TO YOU, Galilee. Whether one chooses to believe in God is a profoundly personal decision, based entirely on how one interprets the universe. I'm a very logical person, yet I don't believe in God (at least the common definition of "God").

I'm sure you will not be able to convince me that there is a God, just as I will not be able to convince you that there is no God. That fact alone shows that "logic" usually doesn't work when talking about religion. Look at it this way: Your logic will only convince those who already believe in God, my logic will only convince those who already don't. Of course, your belief in God is based on logic, as is my atheism, but it is our personal INTERPRETATIONS that make the difference.
 
5280AGL
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 9:02 am

Has anyone ever noticed that the most intelligent people in our society and history have all been athiests or at least denounced religion and the "skygod" theory? I am not implying that every "bible thumper" is a moron, because they are not (maybe just ignorant?), but there is a HUGE difference when it comes to having an open mind to different subjects. When one does not have an open mind (which most religious people do not), it limits your potential to make your OWN decisions about yourself and the universe around you...Not just relying on some ancient folklore to tell you how to live your life and what to believe.

"Religion is just mind control, for ignorant, scared, primitive people..." - George Carlin.
 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 9:37 am

You completely missed my point. Let me try to explain it this way. Whether or not you believe in God, the fact is that logic exists. Without God there would be no logic. With God, there is logic. Science has not yet been able to explain a universe in a logical sense without mention of A higher being at work. For example, the "Big Bang" supporters no longer question the need for a creator or intelligent designer. This is fact and I am not going to go into it all again. It has been done countless times in this forum, try doing a search. Also, let me ask you this, "How open-minded are athiests?" I would venture to say that you are an atheist, yet IMHO, you are far from the most intelligent person in the world, judging from your post.

Goerge Carlin, BTW, is the most respectable, intelligent, fearless minds in the whole world, and everyone should look up to him for inspiration.  Big grin

Quantum theories by those who are out to disprove the existence of God, should by all accounts do just that, but in fact many times they tend to support the very exsistence of a god. Your little revelation is nothing that I haven't heard before, I wander though, have you actually really studied any of this stuff? If so explain one of these theories that disprove God. I find it funny how I caught you on the Albert Einstein quote so you try a different angle. Very deplorable!
 
heavymetal
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:51 am

He may not have been a God. But I'm glad he was in New Jersey in the early 1940s and not in Berlin.

Science aside, Einstien's immigration away from hate proves one law of nature....the more diverse a body is, the better equipped it is to survive. That's true of bodies...and nations.
 
IMissPiedmont
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 11:53 am

OK by me.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:11 pm

"I , at any rate, am convinced that he is not playing at dice." I see galilee already posted that and it was said verbally in response to Neihls Bohr.

Lorentzian view of time which gtr is mathematically based off of, explains the same thing while retaining the aether, and does it much simpler. The only reason to accept the Einsteinian view of time over Lorentz, is that Einstein had an apriori belief that absolute time did not exist based on a now defunct and untenable epistemology (verificationism).

777236ER, Einstein was upset by many things, one of which was attributing causal power to a non-entity "chance" when in fact real causes do exist. He was also a devout verificationist and that caused him many problems, one of which was his necessity to get rid of absolute time and formulate the GTR, which in turn made a psuedo come back in STR.

Anyway, best cosmological evidence to date, shows that space and time and matter did have a beginning, once again a logical conundrum for athiests not theists. SO before you go on your bashing of religion and how all the great scientists are and were athiests do a quick check on the greatest scientific minds since the advent of the scientific method( formulated by Bacon, an outspoken christian btw) , oh my! looky there you're wrong.


Logic FORCES you to have a beginning plain and simple(as in a real actual infinite series in time is a logical impossibility, not a potential one but an actual and "real" one) it also rules out something from nothing, explain that based on athiesm. Also care to explain how any ideas that come from a random process can be verifiably logical? I will save you the time you can't.

There is no rule that says our world is logical and I will grant you that, but accept a logical universe and you got to have some ground for it.

Care to talk about STR, GTR ,or on logical grounds for your belief? I would be more than happy to oblige you.

At any rate it is safe to say that Christians are not ignorant on matters pertaining to time and we have made signifigant grounds in the area of time in Christian philosophy. GTR and STR are useful mathematics, time is a tricky concept and is ill defined in many areas of science so before you go saying Science has ruled God out make sure the Time you are referring to is the right Time and know what christians believe. Thanks


 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:18 pm

Excuse my mistake: str and gtr switched in my ramblings. I must not be God.
 
Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:12 pm

Infinites: I forgot another seperate impossibility, the formation of an actual infinite. So you have two disctinct but related impossibilities that pose a serious threat to athiesm, the impossibility of an acual infinite and the impossibility of the formation of an actual infinite. So, even if you can deal with one, the other remains looming over your head.

Lastly, that all religion has been proven to be based on fear of the unknown, that is and always will remain speculation with out any proof, something a scientific mind such as your self should be wary of prescribing to.
One could also pose the equally so, if not more, plausible theory that athiesm derived from fear of God.

Earlier cultures might have been primitive but to suggest that they were ignorant on all matters is the epitome of ignorance. One must also ask why these people who claimed to believe in miracles are considered ignorant, the usual answer is they believed in miracles so they are ignorant. That is circular reasoning, based on an apriori belief that miracles can not happen. It is also a foundational belief based on nothing. Most people that subscribe to this thinking are influenced by the beliefs of Kant (whether they know it or not) all the while remaining ignorant that his critiques of reason and the such have been critiqued and have been found wanting. Same can be said of Einstein and his verificationist foundations for STR. the myth of chance having causal influence is also prevalent myth in many circles scientific and some not so scientific today, so in short, if you live in a glass house, don't throw stones.
 
L-188
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:02 pm

The only thing that Einstein proved was that there is no such thing as a bad haircut! Big thumbs up
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
tbar220
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 6:03 pm

Infinites: I forgot another seperate impossibility, the formation of an actual infinite. So you have two disctinct but related impossibilities that pose a serious threat to athiesm, the impossibility of an acual infinite and the impossibility of the formation of an actual infinite. So, even if you can deal with one, the other remains looming over your head.

Yipes!! Lots of big words and stuff, this just went right over my head! English please?!?

Oye, and I'm a college student...  Laugh out loud
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Guest

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Fri Mar 08, 2002 7:26 pm

Tbar220, Something exist now right? you can deny it, but the denial infact assumes you exist in order to make the denial right? So while non-existence is a logical ppossibility it is a untenable view in that existence is an undenaible possibility, are you with me so far? Next step, in order for something to exist now as in you or me or anything, than something must have always existed right? ex nihilo nihilo fit, out of nothing nothing comes right? So you must either have, self creation (which is a logical impossibility), an infinitely existing universe (atheism), or something that transcends space and time as the initial cause.

Now a few things come into play here, 1.) the best cosmological data to date shows the universe did in fact have a beginning 2.) the aforementioned impossibility of actual infinite series of time for which the universe needs to have existed infinitely. 3.) If 1 is true which 1 suggests and 2 logically demands than the universe has the potential to not exist so it is an effect and it's cause cannot be itself, something caused the universe to come into existence, the cause itself must initially anyway transcend space and time. That is pretty much the definition of God.Call it what you want but a rose is a rose.

Now to answer your question about the impossbility of an actual infinite and the formation of an actual infinite. An actual infinite is not a potential infinite for starters. a potential infinite is a collection that is increasing toward infinity as a limit but never gets there. such a collection would be indefinite , not infinite. An actual infinite is, on the other hand, a collection whose number of members is actually infinite. It is not growing towards infinity, it is complete, it is infinite. Ever heard of Hilbert's Hotel? That is just one of the illustrations that exposes some of the absurdities in an actual infinite, if it were to exist. Hilberts hotel is a hotel with an actual infinite # of rooms. Let's imagine that all the rooms are full (as in no vacancy). Now let's suppose you show up and want a room, the proprietor would say "of course" and immediatley shift the guest in room#1 to #2, 2 to 3 , 3 to 4, on to infinity. Lo and behold as a result of these room changes, room #1 is now vacant ready for you, even though the hotel was filled to capacity when you arrived. Equally curious there are now no more people in the hotel than when you first arrived, the # is infinite, ???? you just checked in, you would think there would be at least 1 more person????

But wait, imagine an infite # of guests show up to this full hotel, "Of course I have room", says the proprietor, he then proceeds to shift the person in room #1 to #2, 2 to 4, 3 to 6, so on to infinity, alwasy putting each former occupant into a room twice his own. Becuase any natural # multiplied by 2 always equals an even #, all the guests wind up in even # rooms. As a result all the odd # rooms become vacant ready for the new guests... I thought all the rooms were originally full? and as you guessed it, there is actually no more persons in the hotel as before???

Wait, wait! It gets better it's checkout time! Suppose the guest in room #1 checks out. Is there not 1 less person in the hotel? Ask the mathemeticians, they will tell you no, but don't ask housekeeping. Now suppose the odd # rooms check out (1,3,5...) In this case an infinite # of people left the hotel, once again the mathemeticians say there is still the same # of people in the hotel?

Now suppose the proprietor doesn't like having a half empty hotel. It don't matter by shifting occupants just like before, but in reverse order, he will once again be jammed to capacity.


Welcome to Hilbert's Hotel: No vacancy, guests welcome.

Anyway that is just one example of the mathematical absurdities that arise from actual infinites, I have some more if you want them. I will post later why formulating an actual infinite is impossible.

Keep in mind that athiesm needs these, the next time you hear someone accuse a christian of being irrational or absurd for believing in God.  Smile .
 
lehpron
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RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Sat Mar 09, 2002 4:27 am

Pardon my laughter; I just got an email full of emotion that I will keep for a while.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Pardon the "go to hell" comment, I guess I was a little emotional too, no one's perfect.  Insane

I took all the Physics sequences in college, which included Einstein’s general Theory of Relativity (I got a B-), that is what it is: a theory, not a law, which means it can be refuted, get it?

764er: Look pretty boy, I never said I was a God, I never asked you specifically to listen to me and you didn't have to respond either. The joke is on you.

777236ER: "They're thought to be true, that doesn't mean they are" -- in which the same thing goes for the speed of light limit.

PANYNJ: If I "...sound like a complete idiot..." to you, how is that your problem? It isn’t mine cuz I don't care.  Laugh out loud

When I said, "Don't treat science like it is a religion! “ I didn't imply that the opposite is or isn't true (if you thought that way, then it means you had something else on your mind). I was talking about the first paragraph's piece, "
I think this is just about the stupidest thing ever when people believe scientists so much that they act like they speak the worldly truth. "

People act like "this is it, it ends here, we can't get better than this" and anyone who comes up with theories/ideas that speak of an "otherwise" are shunned. Hello? How did these people with their knowledge come to be in the first place? By being different, thinking out of the box, how is this wrong? It is not as if I am questioning the existence of God here, we are all people that means we have limitations and we cannot come up with everything.

Bear in mind that all the math around Einstein’s theories are base around NOT passing the speed of light in a single reference frame. This is true, but that does not mean the reference frame itself cannot move, and then there is no limit to your velocity. A factor of either the inverse of or the square root of (1-c2) is what generates most of the equations we are familiar with; as you can see it is based around light. The math obviously will only work as long as you are below light.

***

I believe that another intelligent life form has been to this planet and thinking otherwise is extremely self-centered and arrogant/ignorant and atheistic, as if we are the only ones capable of thinking the way we do.

Realistically, they are simply not nearby; they are far, very far, we are talking hundreds of light-years at the very least; plus they are still able to get here with their lifetimes. Do you know how fast you have to be moving to cover that kind of distance? It is certainly greater than one. (Unless NASA found a wormhole and will not tell us about it, maybe that is what happened to our two last Mars missions, huh?  Yeah sure )

Look, ever since the dawn of the nuclear age, we on earth have had our fair share of UFO incidents. Coincidence? No, fusion happens naturally, supernovas, Black Holes, etc; but fission is not natural and the light from our early nuke tests escaped into space -- that is a damn good way to find where there is a melting pot of intelligent life -- they got here within a decade. That does not mean those that came here before did not know we were here, just they did not know the extent to our intelligence. We just harnessed the power of the atom that is an intense discovery to "people" like them!

Let's use a distance of a hundred light-years, it took them around 10 years max to set up a convoy and get out here to check us out (only to find out that we're still dumb, we use the atom for war, not fuel -- not they never had terrible conflicts). Our fastest manned vehicles were the Saturn V moon rockets, at their speed this distance would have taken 2.74x106 years.

Even if we assume that they have been coming here since 3000 years ago, it is still the same. If the have been traveling for 3000 years, then they would only need 3% of light speed, but they'd also need a ship large enough to take the equivalent of 100 generations of people -- that's something the size of Rhode Island, USA. If they are any bit smarter than us, then they are probably thinking with cost-effectiveness in mind, building faster is cheaper than bigger, considering mass, plus it would have taken their planets' GDP folded a dozen times to do so -- yeah the hell right.

This is the point of my argument: We cannot judge their abilities based on our science; Einstein’s theories do not explain them. Our scientists say the energy requirements needed just to get to the nearest star are like the size of our sun, yet they come here with things the size of school buses. They are smarter than we are, period, and they probably already thought of the things we have thought of many thousands of years ago.

Just because it makes sense now does not mean it will make sense in a few decades, stop acting as if it is solid rock. I do not imply all the things that you think of when you read this, just the idea of buying something and then shutting up about it feels like giving up.

I do not give up, unfortunately, some of you do, and too easily, I might add.  Angry
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
764ER
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:45 am

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Sat Mar 09, 2002 4:33 am

Well, no one said Einstein was a god... I get it, we can't listen to anything anyone says, because they're not gods, either. Makes sense...

Anyway, if you don't want people to respond... don't post.  Insane

Either way, I think my post flew right by you which was to be expected due to your non-godliness.  Sad
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Sat Mar 09, 2002 5:02 am

(Lehpron sighs)  Insane No, you did not have to respond, no one held a gun to your head! 764er, you specifically didn't have much in terms of a response other than giving me an attitude. This has very little to do with God, it is about the way people think about what they think about.

We as people treat everything like it is a religion (because of the separation of "church and state" IMO). Whether it is science, sports, politics/patriotism, music, love, … whatever. The nature of science and free speech has no place in society.

My point was that we should not take what people say as if no one will ever come up with anything in addition to it. Science is a collection of info, not a diary of a dead guy.

If any of you do not get it say so, do not be sarcastic.

Ask a question.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
764ER
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:45 am

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Sat Mar 09, 2002 5:17 am



I didn't have to respond... but I did. Nobody was holding a gun to your head to respond to the last post... but you did. If my posts are full of attitude, don't respond. Don't be a hypocrite.  Insane

Anyway, I think it's more like most people treat religion as they do everything else - a casual part of life that can occasionally result in self-satisfaction.

And yeah, someone will advance Einstein's or whoever else's theories, but until someone does, that person is "the man." Not the end of knowledge, but the basis for the future.
 
LufthansaUSA
Posts: 174
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2001 10:12 am

RE: Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay?

Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:50 am

Lehpron- I think you're a quack. You don't know what you're talking about.

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