UAL Bagsmasher
Topic Author
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:52 pm

Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:15 pm

I was recently called back to work from furlough, although I haven't received my start date yet (should be within a week). Anyways, about 25 of us had to go for our drug test and fingerprinting last week. One of my collegues was unable to provide a urine specimen. He was given several glasses of water and juice to help nature do its job. All said and done, he was still unable to produce. He was joking about it with the rest of us in the waiting room saying he can't "go" on demand. We all had a good laugh. Anyways, I heard through the grapevine today that the company is trying to prevent him from returning to work. They claim he didn't provide a sample because he was on drugs or something of that nature.
My question is this: What are the proper procedures to be followed when an employee called for a pre-employment or random drug test cannot provide a specimen? Are they allowed to give blood and/or hair samples instead?


 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:23 pm

A blood sample should be more than enough. Maybe he can get one through a doctor's office, but I doubt United will pay the bill for it.

There was a case with a Delta FA who gave a "dilluted" sample and was fired (she had drank a lot of water or something). She later was able to come back.
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I Like To Fly
Posts: 1070
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 1:17 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:24 pm

Blood could be an option and is in many cases. But normally they simply have you sit around and drink, drink, drink, drink, until you go if you have problems. If you have someone sit around and drink a 64 oz. coke or any liquid they WILL go, soon. I know I have had it where you can take all day, but they will watch you and you cannot leave until you piss, or you're fired/not hired. If they didn't then anyone on drugs would be joking about how they can't do it on command. Personally I think it's rather suspicious he was having "problems", from experience most people with that problem are in fact hiding something and the company has a right to take action. He basically refused the test. If he is a good employee and is not having any on the job problems then they would not be too quick to fire him.
 
UAL Bagsmasher
Topic Author
Posts: 1839
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RE: Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:29 pm

I too was suspicious. But I checked some sites out on the Web, and apparently there is a condition called "Parauresis" that is a legitamate reason. I still have my doubts though...
 
I Like To Fly
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RE: Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:31 pm

There was a case with a Delta FA who gave a "dilluted" sample and was fired (she had drank a lot of water or something). She later was able to come back.

You dilute a sample by knowing about the test ahead of time and drinking, relieving yourself, drinking, relieving yourself about three times over so all you're getting is basically water. If the test is done correctly and you are watched then it shouldn't be possible. No matter how much you drink the first one is still very testable.
 
Guest

RE: Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 1:41 pm

There is this phenomenom that occurs when someone really thinks (or wants to believe) they have a medical condition and wha-la! symptoms actually start to appear. I also think doctors will find a condition for these symptoms. Is this the case here? Could be?! I also have to wonder why the percentage of people who claim to have this condition when they must present a sample are found through other tests to in fact be hiding something, is so high. It also strikes me as odd that this guy would joke about something like this knowing that things were getting all screwed up and perhaps even knowing that his job was in jeopardy.
 
jsf119
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 3:46 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Fri Mar 08, 2002 5:11 pm

you work in the industry you should know the FAA's rule if he cant produce then it's considered a failure you have upwards of 3 or 4 hours i believe and if he drank that much he should go. when i took mine before i hired i drank 3 or 4 32 ounce glasses and i was going the rest of the day there is no reason whatsoever why he shouldnt have gone. unless he did do drugs.
 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:08 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Sat Mar 09, 2002 1:26 pm

Do they tell you that you will have a drug test ahead of time or is it a major surprise, like you walk in and "bam" pee in a cup? Just wondering....

By the way, I know somebody who passed a drug test the day after he smoked a joint.
 
DE727UPS
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 10:55 am

RE: Drug Testing

Sat Mar 09, 2002 3:10 pm

They tell us in the air, via ACARS, that we will be tested upon landing. I'll start drinking water as soon as I know I'm going to be tested....just to make sure I'll be able to "perform".

By the way, I know somebody who was a daily smoker and tested negative after being clean for a week.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Drug Testing

Sat Mar 09, 2002 3:36 pm



My employer is hard core about drug testing as per the DOT requirements. A percentage of names are drawn every set period and those are the ones who get tested. All the names are replaced in the basket so if you get tested, you can't go smoke it up because the possibility exists you may be tested again soon.

You won't know about your test until after you start driving your shift. I was working the back-up shift (where you normally sit around the office) and it was time for someone's test so I took one of our vehicles out and I intercepted his bus en route. I drove his route while he took the vehicle to get the drug test. No stalling, no excuses. They can even send you for a test during a late shift, they'll just send you to the emergency room.

I tried weed once over in Amsterdam and it really didn't do much for me. I don't see why some people bother, it doesn't seem worth the trouble.
 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:08 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Sun Mar 10, 2002 5:49 am

I personally don't see why a company really should care what you do in your off time, but that's just my opinion. I could really get bashed for it I know.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Drug Testing

Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:27 am



Well let's see, every weed smoker I know has a superiority complex when it comes to driving. They somehow think it makes them better drivers.

Would you want to ride a bus if the driver took a few hits before reporting to work?
 
jared
Posts: 669
Joined: Fri May 11, 2001 6:05 am

RE: Drug Testing

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:05 am

For an airline, I had to lift stuff and get all sweaty as they measured my heart rate and stuff. After that they asked for me to piss and do the drug test.

I couldn't go! I actually had a little bit of Sprite or something in the morning just to make sure I'd be able to go, because I expected it. But I didn't expect I would have to do it right after my body was using up the water/Sprite I had drank.

I actually thought about that, like what if I can't go, are they going to think I am on drugs. I did some other things and an hour or two later I was able to go. Though I could barely get 1/4 the cup full. It was real dumb for them to make me do it after having worked out, basically.
 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:08 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Sun Mar 10, 2002 1:29 pm

No, I would not want to ride a bus with a stoned driver, but if he smoked on Saturday night and was driving me Monday morning I could care less. Heck, it's legal for my flight instructor take Nyquil and fly the next day, and I think it's a lot less intoxicating to smoke weed than to drink Nyquil.
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Drug Testing

Sun Mar 10, 2002 4:45 pm



OK, how can any test determine whether your bus driver smoked it up a day ago or an hour ago?


 
SophieMaltese
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 2:08 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:17 pm

heck if I know, I didn't say I had an answer for everything!
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Drug Testing

Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:31 am



That's the problem. Most people wouldn't care if their safety was trusted to someone who was a casual marijuana smoker and hadn't smoked recently. It's just impossible to tell without complicated motor skills impairment tests that aren't feasible to conduct on an automatic basis.

The only solution is to not employ those who smoke weed. In my case, it's a hell of a lot more fun to get paid to drive a bus than to smoke weed.
 
UAL Bagsmasher
Topic Author
Posts: 1839
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:52 pm

RE: Update

Mon Mar 11, 2002 4:54 am

Well, the old grapevine has passed on some news to those of us out of the loop. It seems medical sent this guy to an outside doctor to determine if he was full of BS or not with not being able to produce. Seems he has a legitimate case and is now allowed to provide blood and hair samples as an alternative to urine next time he gets tested. I dunno if he deserves an Emmy for acting, or if he is legit....
 
FLY 8
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:48 am

RE: Drug Testing

Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:10 am

Well Sophie I support you on that. I mean the bus driver could be also an alcoholic. You don´t detect an alcoholic easy!

I don´t think it´s OK for companies to test their employes for drugs! Why? That´s again something to control people!

yes i can handle that alone. - - -famous last words
 
mls515
Posts: 2954
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 5:56 am

RE: Drug Testing

Tue Mar 12, 2002 7:19 am





FLY 8- As an airline pilot, you of all people should support drug testing in the workplace. Since you are held responsible for a multi-million dollar piece of equipment and numerous human lives, I don't think it's too much for your employer to ask that you not use illegal narcotics. Although the scope of a possible catastrophe would be much smaller, I too am held responsible for up to 82 human lives and a valuable transit vehicle, not to mention the safety of other users of the roadway, their property and adjoining pedestrian avenues.

The term 'alcoholic' is very loose. Since I had a Guinness and two ciders last night, some may consider me an alcoholic.

I suppose it would not be difficult for an alcoholic to perform his or her duties as an airline pilot or bus driver as long as they showed up to work sober. If they weren't sober, you could tell by the smell of alcohol on their breath and other obvious factors. With marijuana use it is not so easy to tell.

My operations manual states that I am not allowed to have alcohol present in my body while operating a transit vehicle. I can’t even use mouthwash too soon before going to work! Safety is just that important.

I think your statement that employers are trying to control people is way out of line. Since the workplace is a social atmosphere, it’s no wonder that employers want to keep drugs out. Otherwise a drug culture would breed itself from within. And it's always the employees choice to work where he or she works.
 
FLY 8
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 5:48 am

RE: Drug Testing

Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:56 pm

Maybe I discribed it the wrong way! For Jobs like I have it´s OK for drug testing. Drugs don´t have to do anything in Aviation or any other job with a lot responsibility!

I know alcoholic is a very difficult term to define! When does it start? If you drink every day one beer - are you an alcoholic? Some people would say yes.

Well but for people who are working in an office, I think it´s not ok to test them on drugs, only if there are good reasons.
yes i can handle that alone. - - -famous last words
 
rapo
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 1999 12:04 pm

RE: Drug Testing

Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:14 pm

Just an FYI:

Each controlled substance needs to be tested for separately & each test is expensive. They may not be looking for what you think they are.

rapo

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