clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

America's Newest Hero

Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:06 pm

Petty Officer 1st Class Neil Roberts of Woodland, California

Enough said.
A greatfull ClipperHawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
N400QX
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun May 06, 2001 9:51 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Fri Mar 08, 2002 3:21 pm

RIP  Crying

 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:01 pm

Who is he and why a hero ?
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
apathoid
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2001 3:19 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:12 pm

The man was a hero, and so were the men who went in to get him...

"A commando team secretly moved into the area and retrieved Roberts' body. His crew mates in the crippled chopper also were rescued, officials said.

The Pentagon said there was no choice but to keep forces in the middle of the fight.

"There was an American, for whatever reason, [who] was left behind. And we don't leave Americans behind," said Brig Gen. John Rosa, deputy director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
"
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:21 pm

"There was an American, for whatever reason, [who] was left behind. And we don't leave Americans behind," said Brig Gen. John Rosa, deputy director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff

That makes me proud of our armed forces.
 
gekkogecko
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 10:21 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Fri Mar 08, 2002 4:49 pm

Was he the Navy Seal who falls from helicopter?
 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:34 am

Yes, the US Navy Seal who fell, then dragged away by those oily cowards & executed. Rest in peace, Mr. Roberts...you will not be forgotten.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 12:52 am

So what was it he did that was so 'heroic' ? Sounds like he was just incredibly unlucky to me.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 6:41 am

Have you noticed something? He's a hero because he's died in battle. A martyr.

Pretty ironic.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 6:49 am

One may die in battle in a war. His actions in fighting in a war may be heroic, however this doesn't necessarily make him a hero.

On a sidenote...this American journalist who was murdered in Pakistan recently. I have seen editorials and such describing him as a hero and a patriot to his country. What exactly did he do which was so heroic or patriotic?

The word "hero" is a term (like patriot) which is bandied around so much these days, that people tend to lose site of the meaning of the word. That is my outlook on things.
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 7:09 am

I would definitely say the use of the word 'Hero' has been a little overdone recently. Dying does not make you a hero. Dying for your cause when you'd much rather live does. I think the jury is out on whether this soldier was heroic.

But, he was definitely a patriot.
 
Skyway1
Posts: 977
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 12:15 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 8:41 am

I'll ditto 400QX's comment. May Mr. Roberts RIP.

Chris
KNUK, KNUK, KNUK woowoowoo
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 7:48 pm

Aviatsya and DLX, you people have no idea what it is like to go through SEAL training and what these boys go through doing their jobs ( being a away from family friends, showers,watching others die,etc..) they are all heroes and they could eat a sandwich and be heroic doing it. They put their life on the line fighting for our country or in training, every frickin day. One of my good friends was part of the first SEAL team in Iraq during Desert Storm, he is a hero. This fine Petty officer who died was a hero, they are not cowards, they don't train to die, they train to kick A$$ and be able to live another day, knowing full well they might die. They don't do it for pay (they surely don't get rich) or for outside prestige ( because most of what they do, they can't even talk to their own wives about) or for a free ticket to paradise, they do it because they realise somebody must and most won't. If they wanted to die, they could blow their own brains out, they are more than capable, so save your psychoanalysis for someone else. Let us, who appreciate men like these who fight and keep watch so we can live freely and sleep sound at night, mourn our Hero. Being willing to freely sacrifice your life for another whom you don't know and so others can enjoy benefits you must go without is heroic. Hitting a baseball or slam dunking a ball is not, flying a plane into a tower so you can reap the benefits of a free ticket to paradise is not.
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 10:08 pm

A little touchy there aren't you Toadpipe ? Some people including myself were simply questioning the apparent over use of the word hero. No one was insulting PO Roberts or his comrades so just calm down.

Obviously you interpret it very, very broadly but others do not. I am curious though that if someone is a hero for simply being in the military as you seem to think, what adjective do you use to describe someone who does something truly and clearly 'brave', saving someone else's life at obvious risk to there own for example ?

It does always amaze me that people are in awe - as you are - of those who chose a military career. Military people are not special and you would find the same gammit of qualities there as in any other place. People deserve our respect, or otherwise, on thier personal qualities regardless of wether they wear a uniform or not.

grant
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 11:17 pm

ALL of the service people engaged in action are very brave, some are geniune heros.
But yes, the word is overused, by the media.
It is not a good idea to over-personalise the military, not exactly the way to prepare the nation for potential casualties.
Sometimes it raises expectations that a military can do wonders, always get their people out, (a recent thread in many Hollywood movies).
This can backfire when things get rough.
An example, they recently made a film (Behind Enemy Lines), very loosely based on the story of an F-16 pilot shot down over the former Yugoslavia.
In real life, the pilot did as he was trained, sat tight, kept quiet, until the recovery team could get to him.
Not discover mass civillian graves like in the movie, but I've not seen it so no other details, but I bet it wasn't just him lying low, cold and wet.
In real life, the press went mad when the F-16 pilot returned home, photo with the President, the whole works. They said he was a hero.
Arguably he wasn't, he'd done OK not to get captured.
In a review of this film, a commentator sourly noted that when the real event with the F-16 pilot was happening, and dominating the media, a group of French peacekeepers were defending their position against a Bosian Serb attack, they were outnumbered 50-1, but held the enemy off and were saved when re-enforcements arrived.
That was rather more heroic, but not much about it in the European media, and nothing in the US.
Not attacking the F-16 pilot, he did his job and those who rescued him were very brave, but this media/Hollywood overkill is unhealthy, and may rebound one day.
I hope I've got my point across OK!
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sat Mar 09, 2002 11:33 pm

I would hardly call that particular movie based on a real event GDB.

I think we need to avoid confusing material that is inspired on events with scripts that are written based on historical events.

There is a difference.

OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 1:14 am

Toadpipe

You have just proven that heroism is very subjective; depending on where you are coming from. The people who flew the aircraft into the WTC and Pentagon may not be heroes or heroic in your eyes, but to others they are in fact heroes.

This SEAL may be a hero to you and many other people, but to others he is simply a person who is doing a job he is paid to do.

L-188

You are right...there is a difference. Basically, anything which is promoted by hollywood as being a true story, you can basically dismiss as actually being a lie, or at least a story in which the truth is stretched so far out that the line between truth and fiction was crossed by the time the opening credits are finished.
 
D L X
Posts: 11628
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 3:47 am

Toadpipe, you need to read my post again, and not put words in my mouth.

Fact is, you don't know the circumstances upon which this person fell out of the helicopter. If he was shot, he's a victim. If he jumped out to save another, he's a hero. But you don't know that.

If you grant 'hero' status to everyone that dies, you have no way to distinguish those that truly go above and beyond the call of duty.
The point is, it's early; way too early to judge considering how little information there is about this seal's circumstances.


To relate to the Scott O'Grady story (the F16 over Yugoslavia), he was definitely NOT a hero. His missile alarm sounded, and he *turned it off* because of the noise. Then, he was hit. Notice how he wasn't flying F16s anymore after that? Not a hero.
 
GDB
Posts: 12652
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 3:56 am

The point I was trying to make was the expectation of military perfection, including none or very few bodybags, built up in the media, mostly by movies, which can create unrealistic demands of the military by the public.
Then when things get tough, bloody and confused, support for military action may evaporate.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:16 am

Let me educate some of you. A person, who joins the Military of the United States of America, who "makes" the U.S. Navy S.E.A.L. team, who travels half way around the world, who supports and defends the Constitution of the United States of America, who risks his life, who forges into battle without hesitation, who is captured on the ground by Arab(scum) terrorists, who is brutally executed without any compassion, and who dies at the hand of people who have an absolute hatred for Americans like myself is nothing short of a hero in my book.
Thank God there are more people in MY country like Petty Officer 1st Class Neil Roberts.
If that is not a hero, those of you who question the meaning of the word hero need to look hard at just what you have read and ponder the word and its deep meaning.
ClipperHawaii
(Perhaps it takes only an American and his veiwpoint to understand this. After all there are still people who call certain despots of the past 75 years, heros.)

"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
777236ER
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:05 am

So, he's a hero because he died for his country, ie. a martyr?
Your bone's got a little machine
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:13 am

Nope, you got it all wrong. Try again. You only have one chance left. Ahh, dont bother, you just dont get it.
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:17 am

Clipperhawaii

Let me educate some of you......is nothing short of a hero in my book.

Education is based upon facts. The last part of that paragraph you wrote is based not upon facts, but on opinion. There is no education in what you have written.

To you this guy is a hero. That is great. To me, he isn't a hero, but a guy who was doing his job.

Osama bin Laden is despised by most of the world. However, he is a hero to many people because he hit America right where it hurts...yadda yadda yadda.

During WWI, Ataturk was a hero to the Turkish population, yet he was despised by Aussies, Kiwis and Poms (and no doubt other nationalities). If you need to know why try googling his name

So, is Ataturk a hero or is he not a hero?

Heroism is totally subjective, and trying to pound into my head that someone is a hero when I don't believe he is, is absolutely pointless.
 
clipperhawaii
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 3:35 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:24 am

Very interesting Aviatsia.ru. But you also miss the point and don't get it also. Like I said, it is an American perspective. All others need not concern themselves.Hence the title of the post. "America's Newsest Hero."
And now moving on...to more important things.
ClipperHawaii
"You Can't Beat The Experience"
 
777236ER
Posts: 12213
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 7:10 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:29 am

Erm, no. Not moving on. Aparantly no one "gets it" apart from you.

This guy is a hero because he died. DIRECTLY as a result of his death serving in the military. You didn't meantion serving officers as heros and in your first post you implied his death made him a hero.

Why do i need an American perspective? I have a British perspective, and our armed forces personel do die too sometimes, but I don't call someone who's died in the armed forces a hero right away, just because of his death, which you seem to have done.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 8:43 am

Clipperhawaii

It may be very interesting, but before moving on, I do get what you are saying, and I have answered your posts.

Going by what you are saying, in that service personnel who die in war are all heroes. To some extent this may hold true, but true heroism goes beyond the simple serving in the military. If it didn't why were there not 10s of thousands Victoria Crosses posthumously given to troops who died and were from Commonwealth countries. Why were troops who were killed from America and Soviet Union not given their nations highest honours which are only for "heroes"?

True heroes live in a collective nations memory for generations. FlagshipAZ makes mention in his post in this thread that this guy will not be forgotten. Remind me in 25 years time to ask you who Neil Roberts of Woodlands, California was, what he did for a living, under what circumstances did he die, and why he was a hero, and I can guarantee you that not one of you would be able to answer one of those questions (assuming of course, none of you know the guy personally).

When history books are written about the war in Afghanistan and kids are learning about the conflict 50 years from now, this incident will probably not even rate a mention.

Heroism is something which is part of the soul of a nation, and lives on thru the ages. This guy may be a "hero of the moment", which goes in with what I said earlier about that word being bandied about willy-nilly.
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 9:49 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:03 pm

I am american and so fed up with the american view of this war. If one US man dies in combat it is on the front page of every major newpaper and he is a hero. Why can't we just get it into our heads that as much as it sucks, it is a war and people die in war.
 
L-188
Posts: 29870
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: America's Newest Hero

Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:23 pm

This is where I give the american people some credit.

Most people seem to realize that the war effore has gone remarkably well. CNN had one of those little straw polls that had something like 80 or 90 percent of the respondents saying that they thought casaulties where lower then they where expecting.

I think that most people where expecting a lot worse in the case of causualties and are glad that that hasn't proved to be the case.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
pacificjourney
Posts: 2659
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 9:12 pm

RE: America's Newest Hero

Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:04 pm

L-188

Beware of polls as a source of anything except cheap populist journalism.

Ask these same people the same questions next week and who knows what answers you will get but the reality of the situation will likely not have changed.

It is the responsibility of government to lead and not follow polls, particularly polls on complex multi-facitted (sp.?) issues such as war or foreign policy.
" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
 
Guest

RE: America's Newest Hero

Mon Mar 11, 2002 3:16 pm

I wish every one of our wars had so few American casualties, so every one who died serving (key word here serving) our Country could be given the recognition they deserve. I don't think there is such a thing as too much respect for these men and women. Who do you suggest better deserves a spot on the frontpage as hero, the usual supects of the past few years: Bill Clinton? Buttafucco? Tyson? Springer? Condit? O.J.? Micheal Jackson? Britney Spears? The Backstreet Boys? The cast of E.R.? Shaq? Micheal Jordan? Garth Brooks? Schawrtzenegger?Oprah? Friends? The list unfortunately could go on and on.

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